Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown
Journalism is dead.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

evanstheone posted:

Party in Boston!



I imagine there won't be too many Muslims out there.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Pistol Packin Poet posted:

His face on that stretcher :stare:

Wait, what?

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

cname posted:

Watertown has a massive Armenian/Turkish/Middle-Eastern population. It's a hotbed of diversity, part of why this is such a strong victory.

My point is that, even prior to the suspects being identified as Muslim, many of the community were anxious over the ethnicity/religion of the perpetrators. I imagine this is the coming together before Fox News and other shitheels whip up the hate.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:

while you all fuckers our selebraiting, I'm keeping a watchful eye for Sunil

Everyone knows that he is the real mastermind behind this.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Orcrez posted:

don't know if this was posted but its video of first brother dead

http://youtu.be/Bf2vaRBIrdw?t=1m13s

He died pretty neatly there, what with his arms outstretched and his legs crossed.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

vaginal culture posted:

I'm just looking for a pic or info on how far that boat was from where the shootout was. Just curious on this, did he limp there injured or was he just hunkering down.

He was injured when he got there. I imagine he sustained the leg wounds in the firefight.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Crasscrab posted:

Are you still a child?

I am and that pic ruined it.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

matrocious posted:

I really hope he he lives so they can seek the death penalty.

I really hope they don't because that is a waste of resources.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

fknlo posted:

Why give him the easy way out. Life in prison without parole. 70 years of sitting in a tiny room for 23 hours a day with no human contact.

While I would like to see him spend a loooong time in prison, I wish it was in a more humane setting.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Sort of like the humane way he treated his victims, right?

This doesn't matter, I am sorry.

fknlo posted:

I do too. I just don't understand why people cream over the death penalty when there are much worse options.

Because they like to waste money and accomplish nothing. If this kid spends the rest of his life in jail, maybe he will learn why what he did was terrible.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

ClemenSalad posted:

Where on Earth did you learn this was the case and why do you believe it?

Some people are not bloodthirsty and see greater value in respecting human life. :shrug:

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

LongDarkNight posted:

Let us cheer the neutrality of justice.

I am neither excited nor not excited. This may or may not be a great thing. :geno:

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

PT6A posted:

Ultimately, I like what was done with Breivik. He's not mistreated, he's not being tortured, he's just going to be justly and humanely imprisoned for the better part (at least) of his life for the crimes he committed. I don't want people to be killed or tortured even for the worst crimes, since then we can't maintain that we are, as a society, superior to those being punished. We are better than that. We mustn't lower ourselves to the level of unthinking animals who cry for blood and torture.

I hope the suspect is treated with human dignity, so he can spend a long time with his own tortured thoughts, thinking of what he did, and realizing that the good people of the world can look at his actions, and punish him as he ought to be, without mistreating or abusing him. I would like him to serve his (severe) sentence, always knowing that he, himself, is the architect of every bad thing that happens to him, without anyone else to blame for inhuman treatment or torture. Sure, it may not satisfy the bloodlust, but I think it's a much healthier thing to aim for as a society.

I just hope that eventually he is able to come to grips with the magnitude of his actions. I would hope he does not end up in a situation where he feels victimized or does not come to terms with it. That is why I would like to see humane treatment in this and any other case.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Robot_Rumpus posted:

Or dies in the hospital. Seeing as how he is apparently in very serious condition.

Yeah, this too.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Young Freud posted:

The dudebro was not only smiling when he dropped a backpack full of gunpowder behind an 8-year old boy, but winked at one of his future victims when he did it.

That's not the reaction of someone who has been coerced into his actions.

This didn't happen. Can people stop with the disinformation?

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Suntory BOSS posted:

What the gently caress? Source link please, I can't believe somebody could be that sociopathic...

There is no source because it is bullshit.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

OatmealRaisin posted:

Huh. I guess he surrendered?

I imagine he realized that he was dying.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Visteri posted:

His brother is the one who looked at Jeff. Don't think it was mentioned anywhere that he winked, but he was wearing sunglasses anyway.

People say that Dzhokhar was smiling in that picture, but it's really hard to tell. It's blurry as gently caress.

Sorry guy. What actually happened is that Dzhokar winked, with a huge smile on his face, and did finger guns at his victims before moonwalking out of there.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

PT6A posted:

I can feel empathy toward him without feeling sorry for his situation. He definitely deserves to spend, at the very least, the majority of the rest of his life in prison and I certainly wouldn't argue otherwise, but at the same time, I believe he's still a human being and deserves to be treated with human dignity. As I said earlier in the thread, I hope he's not purposefully mistreated or abused in any way. We are better than people like the Tsarnaev brothers precisely because we can recognize the humanity of even the worst among us.

Hey, and it might even result in him seeing the error in his actions and sincerely feeling remorse for what he did!

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Volume posted:

You can understand someone's motives with out empathizing with them.

You are confusing sympathy and empathy.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

vickser posted:

Not my friends but people who have their statuses commented by my friends.

Thankfully my friends list doesn't include anyone who would post poo poo like that.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Miranda posted:

Invicta would probably know but could it be hematoma from being run the gently caress over by his brother?

Is it even confirmed that this actually happened? The second-to-last police press conference announced that he escaped on foot, not in a vehicle.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown
Some "expert" on CNN just said there were hundreds of thousands of Chechen refugees in America. Nice.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Samurai Sanders posted:

So a few tenths of Chechnya's population lives in the US? Ok, CNN guy.

Apparently they just couldn't resist our freedom and liberty.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Rambling Robot posted:

I just went to Wikipedia, though not always reliable, has < 1000.


A source: http://www.ibtimes.com/chechens-little-known-global-diaspora-refugees-1204971

Yeah, that is what I was pointing out. Their expert is a moron.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Sir John Falstaff posted:

I would rate it at about a 7, just because so many mass killers seem to kill themselves as well. I think there are really two factors, (1) how much did he want to be taken alive, and (2) how much did the authorities want to take him alive. The former, though, was much more important. That's not to take anything away from what the authorities here did--BPD, the feds, whoever else was involved did everything very professionally, but if he wasn't willing to be taken alive he probably wouldn't have been.

Yeah, at the end of the day I think this probably came down to a scared kid knowing that he was dying and wanting desperately to live. All of his actions up to that point pretty much confirm it. He could've gone like his brother but he didn't have the conviction.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Justin Godscock posted:

The picture that's circulating of him entering the boat was taken at night; he almost certainly hid shortly after the shootout before a lockdown was publicly declared.

That wasn't a picture of him entering the boat. That was a picture of him exiting the boat after surrendering.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

ryan8723 posted:

Anyone going to supermax lost the right to be called human when they committed their horrific crime, Supermax prisons are designed entirely around the idea of psychological punishment and I'm completely fine with that.

This kind of thinking makes you just as bad as the people you are accusing of being inhuman. The point of justice is to serve society and to do so humanely.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Justin Godscock posted:

Supermax is really defined as being a "control" type prison designed to house inmates who are way too violent to be in gen pop or are just way too good at coordinating criminal activity inside and out of prison. If anyone gets a chance, read up on the inmate list and you'll see a whole lot of people that just plain cannot contact society anymore.

I really don't understand how Norway manages to do it with "max security" prisons that look like a cramped dorm room while we decide that we need to destroy someone psychologically until they are dead.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Burning Mustache posted:

Actually, I think killing people and wounding hundreds of others is pretty much objectively worse than having mean feelings / "bad" opinions by any reasonable metric, so it's most certainly not "just as bad".

Advocating psychological torture for thousands of people with varying crimes makes you just as bad as the people who commit those crimes, yes.

vaginal culture posted:

This is your opinion and others disagree.

shut up please respond

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

ryan8723 posted:

It's not so much that they are designed to mentally torture people as they are designed to punish to the criminal. A lot of the psychological aspect comes from the fact that the prisoner is not allowed human contact, lights are always on, no entertainment, has a very slim window pointed to the sky, and is in a room of stainless steel and poured concrete. Most of the psychological stuff is from the prisoner being forced to live within himself.

The psychological aspect is a side effect of designing the prison for ultra security. The more security you have, the more it will break a prisoner down. Supermax prisons are not necessarily designed to psychologically or mentally torture, they just do it as side effect of having insane security features.

This is the most mealy-mouthed apologetic crap I have ever heard. Said with the utmost respect, of course.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Yeah, yeah.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

gently caress This Puzzle posted:

As much as I agree with you for the most part on the general issues with prisons, this is completely wrong.

I don't agree, obviously. If your idea of justice is "destroy someone psychologically" instead of, you know, justice then there is something very wrong. Criminals do not stop being human beings because you feel like it.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

gently caress This Puzzle posted:

You can disagree all you want - you are wrong.

The people advocating all sorts of mental torture on the person should be ashamed on themselves and are "bad" but they are not equal to someone who actually committed harm to innocents.

It's akin to saying someone who wants someone executed for murder is just as bad as the murderer. This is a ridiculously stupid opinion to hold (and I say that as someone who does not agree with capital punishment).

I am glad that you are the last arbitrator on what is right and wrong.

The issue is that the people who advocate this kind of extremist view of justice do end up harming people. Innocent people in some cases. The reason society allows for the torture and rape of inmates is because there are a lot of people who are permissive of it. It is incredibly disgusting. Society does not become a better place by advocating death and torture.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

gently caress This Puzzle posted:

And while all of this is true, it doesn't make any of the people in this thread equal in "badness" to a person who set off a bomb which killed and maimed dozens of people. Unless, of course, they're prison guards and officials and personally are committing these people to isolation and torture.

Perhaps I overreacted, but the constant gleeful advocacy of torture, rape, and murder is just appalling. At some point it comes across as pure blood lust and evil.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Godholio posted:

:siren: Thoughts carry the same weight as actions. :siren:

No, but being "perfectly okay" with psychological torture makes you a pretty horrible human being. The poster indicated this was not his intent, though.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

ryan8723 posted:

So again, what should be done with these people? Send them to a resort in the middle of desert where they can't leave? It seems like many of you want to give these guys better lives than many non-criminals.

The fact that non-criminals have lovely lives doesn't mean we have to make the criminals' lives even shittier. I am a socialist, so I advocate relatively comfortable lives for everyone.

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Godholio posted:

Where's the glee? I think you're mistaking a lack of sympathy and giving a gently caress about what happens to the worst of humanity as actively chomping at the bit to feed them into a meat grinder slowly. There's a pretty wide gap in the middle there, and I think most of the people you disagree with fit in there.

I have seen so much "I can't wait to see the fucker fry" or "can't wait to see what the other inmates do to him" responses to this that it is hard not to see that reflected in other comments. Like I said, maybe I just overreacted to his original statement.

e: hehe, thanks for the avatar.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Aves Maria!
Jul 26, 2008

Maybe I'll drown

Fog Tripper posted:

What? Where did anyone do this?

It is not just specific to this series of threads. Though, there has been some hee-hawing about rape here.

  • Locked thread