Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Except, of course, the decks that don't use them. Yes, I am aware of the existence of decks without fetches. Thanks. And I am aware that bannings cause some decks to not function well anymore. Thanks. How about this: do you realize that if fetches were banned then some cards could actually get unbanned as a result? Like Wild Nacatl? Maybe it'd open up space for other cards and deck types to thrive? Maybe all those Zoo decks you're looking at wouldn't have to rely on the powerful fetches and could evolve into different strategies? Maybe strategies that involve dealing with the strategies nearly every other deck would also have to adjust because they too could no longer use fetches? If you want to do a thought experiment don't stop halfway when it's convenient for whatever point you were trying to make. edit: VVV Reprinting Stifle would be another interesting way to deal with it, but I don't know if that kind of power level is what Wizards wants for Modern. AnacondaHL fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Apr 24, 2013 |
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Apr 24, 2013 18:58
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AnacondaHL posted:How about this: do you realize that if fetches were banned then some cards could actually get unbanned as a result? Like Wild Nacatl? Maybe it'd open up space for other cards and deck types to thrive? Maybe all those Zoo decks you're looking at wouldn't have to rely on the powerful fetches and could evolve into different strategies? Maybe strategies that involve dealing with the strategies nearly every other deck would also have to adjust because they too could no longer use fetches? Well, they could do that. Or they could reprint something like Price of Progress and force them to adapt that way rather than ban a central cycle in Modern and put thousands of players out hundreds of dollars to enable a 25 cent common. Both ways work really.  Edit: ^^ Trickbind already exists in Modern, which is the same effect with uncounterability for an extra mana, and there's Shadow of Doubt which is (U/B)(U/B), has the same effect as a Stifle or Trickbind on a fetch and even cantrips to boot, and both of these see pretty paltry amounts of play (though I have seen Shadow of Doubt in Delver decks and some control decks. It's a very good card so I don't get why it doesn't get played more.). TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Apr 24, 2013 |
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Apr 24, 2013 19:08
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Why exactly do you need price of progress when blood moon already exists. Also Price of Progress doesn't do much against fetchlands because they just fetch basics in response. For that matter people that think fetchlands are going to be banned are insane.
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Apr 24, 2013 19:17
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If fetches get banned in modern, I will pretty surely be quitting magic. I've got too much invested in them at the moment to take that kind of hit. I think a lot of players are in the same boat and that's why I don't think they'll get banned. I would like a reprint though.
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Apr 24, 2013 19:40
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ChewyLSB posted:Why exactly do you need price of progress when blood moon already exists. Also Price of Progress doesn't do much against fetchlands because they just fetch basics in response. Sorry, maybe I'm muddling up Legacy and Modern a little bit. In Legacy at least, Price of Progress is an absolute beating because so many decks simply don't bother to run basics anymore. The presence of Price of Progress at least creates an impact in that it forces decks to run at least a few out of necessity. I'd figure it'd apply for Modern too, even more so since the shocklands eat life as they come into play which exacerbates the problem. Factor in manlands, tron pieces, Mutavaults and other ones I'm probably neglecting and I could see Price of Progress doing some very good work in Modern.
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Apr 24, 2013 19:40
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I think the earliest we can realistically expect fetchland reprints is the block after Theros, and as others have said, it would be the perfect time to do so with RTR shocklands rotating out. Also much longer than that (two blocks down the road) and prices would be bonkers high, probably starting to stifle the format. It would be interesting if they printed fetches in the next core set, which would really make them affordable. I realize that's not going to happen since Wizards has stated a desire to keep the core sets more straightforward, but I suppose it's theoretically possible. The more interesting question is: when they do reprint fetches, which are they going to do? Just the Zendikar ones, or add the Onslaught fetches for a full cycle of ten? I don't remember if there's been any commentary by Rosewater or anyone on introducing the ONS fetches to Modern. It would certainly shake the format up, and if they don't, those older fetches are going to go perma-crazy pricewise (Polluted Delta already trades close or higher than most Revised duals).
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Apr 24, 2013 20:07
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I asked about the Onslaught fetches a little while ago, but who can really say? Is having 10 fetches much better than 5? Suppose I'm looking at it from a Modern centric perspective, but that's why they reprinted the shocks in the first place.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:14
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In the initial announce-ing of modern they mentioned that it felt weird that only the enemy fetchlands were legal in modern. I wouldn't be super surprised if at some point they make the allied fetchlands legal in modern. It wouldn't change the manabases that much, it just marginally makes certain color combos worse right now. It does feel like they should be modern legal, so I wouldn't exactly be surprised to see all ten fetchlands in a Return to Zendikar. Also, regarding Price of Progress: it would certainly see play in something like burn but the point is is that if you really want to hose nonbasics you can just play Blood Moon right now which is just better. The problem is that Blood Moon decks are not great right now.
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Apr 24, 2013 20:16
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If fetches are reprinted, I expect them in a supplemental product like Modern Masters 2. I expect the shuffling problem will keep them out of standard unless they are the perfect fit for a set, as with Zendikar and landfall.
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Apr 24, 2013 21:37
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I'd be interested to see how a theoretical reprint of Onslaught fetches in standard would be valued and what impact it would have on the prices of the Zendikar ones. Would they all level out around the same area, or would the Zendikar ones retain a greater value?
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Apr 24, 2013 21:59
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Lord Of Texas posted:If fetches are reprinted, I expect them in a supplemental product like Modern Masters 2. I expect the shuffling problem will keep them out of standard unless they are the perfect fit for a set, as with Zendikar and landfall. Except can they insert stuff into the format via a masters set, rather than just reprinting stuff that's already legal? (Maybe you mean just the Zendikar fetches and you don't expect the Onslaught fetches to become legal in Modern ever under any circumstances, but I'm not clear on that based on the point at which you entered the conversation.)
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Apr 24, 2013 22:04
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JerryLee posted:Except can they insert stuff into the format via a masters set, rather than just reprinting stuff that's already legal? I meant the Zen fetches for Modern, but I don't expect either cycle in standard. At any rate its their rules, they could insert the ONS fetches via MM2 if they deemed it good for the format.
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Apr 24, 2013 22:08
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AnacondaHL posted:How about this: do you realize that if fetches were banned then some cards could actually get unbanned as a result? Like Wild Nacatl? Maybe it'd open up space for other cards and deck types to thrive? Maybe all those Zoo decks you're looking at wouldn't have to rely on the powerful fetches and could evolve into different strategies? Maybe strategies that involve dealing with the strategies nearly every other deck would also have to adjust because they too could no longer use fetches? The Zoo strategies will have their legs chopped off, since every one of them needs fetches in one way or the other, given a card that relies on T1 green then having a Sacred Foundry's worth of nongreen mana on T2 with no way to get that reliably, and quite a few strategies like the WU and UB Controls and Jund will only be slightly affected. And the fetchless decks like Tron are just better relatively to the field. That really doesn't seem to be much of an incentive to ban them, since it just hits the biggest aggro archetype and not much else. I don't know Modern as well as Standard or Legacy but I just cannot see what the positives are supposed to be here, especially compared to just printing the fetches again.
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Apr 24, 2013 22:24
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I don't know Modern as well as Standard or Legacy but I just cannot see what the positives are supposed to be here, especially compared to just printing the fetches again. Yeah, I'd rather the market get flooded with them than banning utility duals for price reasons. In the end, they're lands that fix mana and help enable a keyword from a set they appeared in. The price issue can be fixed - the entire reason Modern exists is because they can't fix legacy's price woes by reprinting things.
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Apr 24, 2013 22:39
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I was planning on taking Hatebears to GP Portland, as it literally laughs at Jund, but its flank was pretty badly exposed in a few matchups against U Tron and America, which seem to be gaining ground. Mono-U Tron is currently 13% of the meta, with Jund down to just 9%. Any ideas what rogue deck deals handily with U strategies and generally goes hard against the field? Some sort of R/g LD/Sowing Salt/Life from the Loam/Crucible of Worlds/Ghost Quarter thing?
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Apr 25, 2013 20:00
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There was that Loam deck that Bronson Magnon brewed to win the GP last year. http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gplin12/welcome#1 Ghost Quarter can end up turning into Strip Mine with that deck.
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Apr 25, 2013 20:18
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UG Infect is very solid against Tron, but folds pretty hard to RWU. I think either of the Pod (Melira or Kiki-Jiki) decks might be well positioned in this meta.
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Apr 25, 2013 21:03
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I wondering what your thoughts are on RUG Scapeshift in the current meta? It is exactly the kind of deck I like to play and I know it did well a few months ago because it has a strong game against Jund. Does it hold up against U/W/r Geist and U Tron?
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Apr 25, 2013 21:08
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Mona Lisa Overdrive posted:I wondering what your thoughts are on RUG Scapeshift in the current meta? It is exactly the kind of deck I like to play and I know it did well a few months ago because it has a strong game against Jund. Does it hold up against U/W/r Geist and U Tron? I don't know what turn they can usually 'go off' but this list looks promising and might do well in those matchups. It did better than them in the daily that deck is from anyway.
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Apr 25, 2013 21:21
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Anyone have any advice for playing modern burn? Splash black or white or both? Sideboard options, general lines of play against most decks, and advice about the mtgo metagame would all be helpful. This is my list: Deck: Untitled Deck   //burn 4 Arid Mesa 6 Mountain 4 Scalding Tarn 4 Blackcleave Cliffs 1 Blood Crypt 1 Stomping Ground 4 Goblin Guide 4 Hellspark Elemental 4 Deathrite Shaman 4 Vexing Devil 1 Dark Confidant 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Lava Spike 4 Bump in the Night 4 Rift Bolt 4 Magma Jet 2 Searing Blaze 1 Skullcrack //Sideboard 4 Rakdos Charm 2 Shattering Spree 3 Torpor Orb 1 Boom // Bust 4 Pyroclasm 1 Slagstorm  Display deck statistics
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Apr 26, 2013 14:03
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The white splash is really inconsistent. A lot if matchups are races and you end doing way too much damage to yourself from lands. BR is fine. You also need 4x skull crack to stand a chance.
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Apr 26, 2013 16:22
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Algid posted:Anyone have any advice for playing modern burn? Splash black or white or both? Sideboard options, general lines of play against most decks, and advice about the mtgo metagame would all be helpful. If you're going to run Vexing Devil and splash, run it with something like Orzhov Charm or Unburial Rites to keep it going. I'd get rid of Bump In The Night for Searing Spear; Bump can't target creatures.
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Apr 26, 2013 16:31
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Durette posted:If you're going to run Vexing Devil and splash, run it with something like Orzhov Charm or Unburial Rites to keep it going. Wadjamaloo posted:The white splash is really inconsistent. A lot if matchups are races and you end doing way too much damage to yourself from lands. BR is fine.
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Apr 26, 2013 16:42
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Algid posted:You realize that this is the modern thread right? Even if your advice was applicable, there are better card choices available like postmortem lunge or incinerate. Why would you run Postmortem Lunge with Vexing Devil? It totally negates the point of returning it from the graveyard.
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Apr 26, 2013 16:56
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It goes in for 4 either way since it has haste. I don't care about it sticking around, I just want to do damage since that's what a burn deck wants. Not that I would run lunge, just saying that it's better than a 4/5 cmc sorcery to try to get a 4/3 to stick around.
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Apr 26, 2013 17:00
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Algid posted:It goes in for 4 either way since it has haste. I don't care about it sticking around, I just want to do damage since that's what a burn deck wants. Not necessarily. All I have to do is block and it's exiled at the top of the next turn. I'd rather give them fewer options to deal with it. I hear ya. He's got a lot of Modern cards in there, so I was running on the assumption that he would have those available.
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Apr 26, 2013 17:04
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Algid posted:What sort of lifegain am I trying to hose with skullcrack exactly? I could use a lot of help with sideboarding in general. I am at work right now, but I can post up my list and some more info later.
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Apr 26, 2013 17:11
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Wadjamaloo posted:The white splash is really inconsistent. A lot if matchups are races and you end doing way too much damage to yourself from lands. BR is fine. This is incorrect. Most modern burn lists I see look like a variation of this: Deck: Untitled Deck  //Lands 4 Arid Mesa 2 Blackcleave Cliffs 3 Blood Crypt 1 Graven Cairns 1 Marsh Flats 1 Mountain 2 Sacred Foundry 4 Scalding Tarn 1 Stomping Ground //Creatures 4 Deathrite Shaman 4 Goblin Guide 2 Grim Lavamancer 4 Vexing Devil //Burn 4 Boros Charm 4 Bump in the Night 4 Lava Spike 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Lightning Helix 4 Rift Bolt 3 Searing Blaze //Sideboard 3 Dragon's Claw 4 Molten Rain 3 Rakdos Charm 1 Searing Blaze 4 Skullcrack Display deck statisticsI don't agree with some of the choices in this list, notably the one gravern cairns is weird and the complete lack of Bobs doesn't seem right, and I don't like Grim Lavamancer that much in this deck anymore either. The white splash is 100% worth it for boros charm and you get to upgrade a two mana burn spell to Lightning Helix for when you do have to race. In general though, you're not racing much in modern, the GR aggro deck is only okay, so basically all you have to worry about is the mirror, so the fact that you're taking extra damage from your lands is not a big deal. If I had to change this list, I'd probably change the Gravern cairns to a Blood Crypt and shave two lavamancers and maybe two Searing Blazes for four Bobs.
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Apr 26, 2013 17:25
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I wonder if there's such a thing as a burn deck that runs blue only for Snapcaster Mage to flashback burn spells. Maybe a version of UWR that could focus on that angle. It's probably a terrible idea I should put on a dunce cap and sit in the corner.
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Apr 26, 2013 19:35
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Been thinking about a derivative of borosmandos/naya/aggro-loam hybrid deck that uses 4x boom//bust and 4x ghost quarter along with landfall critters like Steppe Lynx and Plated Geopede to rush damage in and pressure opposing mana sources; It might also use green for explore and land searching spells. Anyone have any suggestions for such a deck? Basic shell: Creatures: 4x Steppe Lynx 4x Plated Geopede 4x Goblin Guide (maybe?) ?? Spells: 1-3x crucible of worlds 2-4x path to exile 4x lightning bolt 2-4x lightning helix 4x explore 4x Life from the Loam 4x Boom//Bust Lands: 4x Arid Mesa 2x Verdant Catacombs 2x Marsh Flats 2x Misty Rainforest 2x Scalding Tarn 4x Ghost Quarter xx Mountains xx Plains xx Forests Ghost Quarter would be useful because I could target my own fetches, sac the fetch for a land and end up with 3-landfall triggers for the turn and no loss of available mana.
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Apr 26, 2013 21:07
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Mulletstation posted:Ghost Quarter would be useful because I could target my own fetches, sac the fetch for a land and end up with 3-landfall triggers for the turn and no loss of available mana. Not quite: quote:9/22/2011: If the targeted land is an illegal target by the time Ghost Quarter's ability resolves, it will be countered and none of its effects will happen. The land's controller won't get to search for a basic land card.
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Apr 26, 2013 21:10
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Damnit! Welp, I guess I could would leave them main-deck anyway due to the low mana curve and as hate against scapeshift/tron
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Apr 26, 2013 21:18
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Mulletstation posted:Damnit! Welp, I guess I could would leave them main-deck anyway due to the low mana curve and as hate against scapeshift/tron Might I recommend Flagstones of Trokair? It's a legendary white land that comes into play untapped and fetches you a plains when it's destroyed, either by you or your opponent. Maybe it could be what you're looking for?
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Apr 26, 2013 21:29
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Mulletstation posted:Been thinking about a derivative of borosmandos/naya/aggro-loam hybrid deck that uses 4x boom//bust and 4x ghost quarter along with landfall critters like Steppe Lynx and Plated Geopede to rush damage in and pressure opposing mana sources; It might also use green for explore and land searching spells. Anyone have any suggestions for such a deck? Pretty sure you want Vinelasher Kudzu. Maybe also Scapeshift.
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Apr 26, 2013 21:38
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TheKingofSprings posted:Might I recommend Flagstones of Trokair? It's a legendary white land that comes into play untapped and fetches you a plains when it's destroyed, either by you or your opponent. Maybe it could be what you're looking for? bonus, its a legendary permanent that you don't feel bad about having multiples of in your opening hand, etc. as it works out to 3 landfall triggers when the 2nd one comes down.
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Apr 26, 2013 22:11
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Matt Nass did a set of videos on a Modern W/R Landfall Aggro list over on CFB. I remember he had Flagstones and Ghost Quarters and Boros Charm and that red enchantment that will create a 7/1 after you get a couple landfall triggers. e: here's the link http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-mattnass-boros-landfall-modern-event/
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Apr 26, 2013 22:19
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Holy poo poo this loving list Lands:15 4 Glimmervoid 4 Arid Mesa 2 Academy Ruins 1 Temple Garden 1 Stomping Ground 1 Plains 1 Godless Shrine 1 Sacred Foundry Artifacts:25 4 Lantern of Insight 4 Codex Shredder 4 Ghoulcaller's Bell 4 Mox Opal 3 Mishra's Bauble 3 Ensnaring Bridge 2 Pithing Needle 1 Pyrite Spellbomb Spells:19 3 Ancient Stirrings 3 Faithless Looting 3 Dispatch 3 Pyroclasm 3 Duress 2 Beast Within 2 Infernal Tutor Planeswalker: 1 1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas  Go read Lantern of Insight and Codex Shredder/Ghoulcaller's Bell Hope your opening grip was good.
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Apr 27, 2013 04:08
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I don't know, I just can't see that really being competitive. Its cute, but I think I'd have to see it in actual practice. That said, if I wasn't already committed to slowly building a few modern decks already, I'd want to toy with it. Love seeing uses for terrible cards like Ghoulcaller's Bell.
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Apr 27, 2013 04:25
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Tharizdun posted:Holy poo poo this loving list
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Apr 27, 2013 04:53
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What blows me away about that deck is the wincon bandied about - Timesifter
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Apr 27, 2013 05:15
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