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clockworkjoe
May 31, 2000

Rolled a 1 on the random encounter table, didn't you?
if Palladium fucks up the Robotech mini Kickstater much more, I don't see how they'll be able to weather the damage.

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Talen_Soti
Mar 30, 2010

clockworkjoe posted:

if Palladium fucks up the Robotech mini Kickstater much more, I don't see how they'll be able to weather the damage.

What did Kevin gently caress up by micromanaging this time?

clockworkjoe
May 31, 2000

Rolled a 1 on the random encounter table, didn't you?
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/716024

edit: Look at all the blame passing Kevin is doing in that post. I also remember reading earlier posts in the Kickstarter thread about how hosed up the robotech KS was.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
One thing that I don't think can be understated is that Palladium needs the Robotech RPG minis to be a success. Palladium has been a bad place for years, and has been able to keep running, but like a shark, if they stop, they'll sink. There's basically no financial safety net at this point.

It's sad, I don't necessarily want Palladium to go under, I wish them the best, but it's amazing they've been able to keep going this long. Though I wouldn't necessarily predict their doom (as has been popular for about a decade now), it seems unlikely that they can maintain their momentum forever.

With that Kickstarter update, Kevin really just keeps to clam up, show the pictures, give the progress report, and be done. The handwringing and apologizing just looks desperate.

Wibbleman
Apr 19, 2006

Fluffy doesn't want to be sacrificed

Alien Rope Burn posted:

One thing that I don't think can be understated is that Palladium needs the Robotech RPG minis to be a success. Palladium has been a bad place for years, and has been able to keep running, but like a shark, if they stop, they'll sink. There's basically no financial safety net at this point.

It's sad, I don't necessarily want Palladium to go under, I wish them the best, but it's amazing they've been able to keep going this long. Though I wouldn't necessarily predict their doom (as has been popular for about a decade now), it seems unlikely that they can maintain their momentum forever.

With that Kickstarter update, Kevin really just keeps to clam up, show the pictures, give the progress report, and be done. The handwringing and apologizing just looks desperate.

how do you gently caress up on a kickstarter that overfunded. It's well above the cash levels that say needing a range-hood would hurt.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
The same way you gently caress up any kickstarter: mismanagement. If you can't get money you need for something out of whoever's holding the cash box, or various teams aren't communicating effectively, you're really kind of boned. :(

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Wibbleman posted:

how do you gently caress up on a kickstarter that overfunded. It's well above the cash levels that say needing a range-hood would hurt.

There's always the classic "we failed to estimate our costs properly in the first place".

Wibbleman
Apr 19, 2006

Fluffy doesn't want to be sacrificed

Alien Rope Burn posted:

There's always the classic "we failed to estimate our costs properly in the first place".

From looking at the amount of stretch goal extras added to the big packs, that's quite possibly the case. I just assumed it was the "Siembieda effect" that was holding everything up.

I do like how they keep using the old 3d printed destroids in the pictures, except they are the wrong scale, so they have to explain every time. Just get correctly scaled ones printed you drongos.

Wibbleman fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Jan 11, 2014

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
So Palladium has announced they're going to do a 30th anniversary hardcover of Heroes Unlimited. But it's not a reprint of the book that came out 30 years ago, it's going to be the second edition. Apparently Kevin thinks it's in hot demand.

:psyduck:

Also there's a bunch of Kevin's toys and Palladium collectibles that have gone up on ebay. So if you want a Coca Cola Barbie that's passed through Kevin's hands or a signed portrait of the Palladium staff, there you have it.

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free

Alien Rope Burn posted:

So Palladium has announced they're going to do a 30th anniversary hardcover of Heroes Unlimited. But it's not a reprint of the book that came out 30 years ago, it's going to be the second edition. Apparently Kevin thinks it's in hot demand.

:psyduck:

Also there's a bunch of Kevin's toys and Palladium collectibles that have gone up on ebay. So if you want a Coca Cola Barbie that's passed through Kevin's hands or a signed portrait of the Palladium staff, there you have it.

Just circling the drain now, aren't they?

:(

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
Yeah, a number of books have gone into reprint now. And my second thought on seeing that is "Oh no, don't tell me you're putting your kickstarter money into a reprint of Mystic Russia and Palladium Fantasy books?" Hoping not, but every time Palladium gets a money injection, you tend to see the reprints roll out, because Kevin's seemingly focused on always trying to keep good chunks of their 30-year game line in print.

BerkerkLurk
Jul 22, 2001

I could never sleep my way to the top 'cause my alarm clock always wakes me right up
Too bad, Rifts is probably my favorite game Because I Played It When I Was 12. God, he's selling System Failure artwork, I remember buying that because a more "down to Earth" SDC game sounded fun, but even then I realized tying your game to Y2K would give it a limited shelf life.

If I ever got to run a Rifts game again, I'd make sure there were boxing gyms on every street corner, because everyone takes that skill if they can. Sure cynics might say it's for the extra attack, but I think in the dangerous MDC apocalypse people just like to unwind with some low-stakes padded punching.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


JohnnyCanuck posted:

Just circling the drain now, aren't they?

:(
It's a company that hasn't really done any innovation since the 90's, uses a system that's barely been changed from the 80's (and wasn't super good even then), has historically poor management and survived mostly through complete luck (getting the TMNT license when it was still just an indie comic for example), and which has history of making life difficult for freelancers. To be perfectly honest, I'm amazed they've held on this long. :geno:

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Hoping not, but every time Palladium gets a money injection, you tend to see the reprints roll out, because Kevin's seemingly focused on always trying to keep good chunks of their 30-year game line in print.
Isn't having a stock of unsold decade-old inventory one of their big issues as it is?

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Asimo posted:

Isn't having a stock of unsold decade-old inventory one of their big issues as it is?

Some things do sell out. Of course, then they do a restock, and can fail at selling those...

... so it goes. There's a reason some books you buy from them can literally be yellowed with age.

Nostalgia4ColdWar
May 7, 2007

Good people deserve good things.

Till someone lets the winter in and the dying begins, because Old Dark Places attract Old Dark Things.
I've been cleaning out my old hard drives. I'm one of those people who just copy the contents of my D: drive to a new drive and don't worry about it.

However, I found my old Allengheny Valley conversion for Rifts. It's pretty much core rule book only.

Anyone interesting in seeing it?

I will warn you, it's from like 1993 or so, and it's a little scattered.

Feels more like a future world got hit with a cataclysm rather than the 1980's with MDC got hit with one.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
Just leaving a note here for those that don't check the PbP recruitment thread that Ryuujin is running a Rifts recruitment for a Play-by-Post game.

For those that dare to brave, dare to dream, and dare to suffer.

BrotherAdso
May 22, 2008

stat rosa pristina nomine
nomina nuda tenemus

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Just leaving a note here for those that don't check the PbP recruitment thread that Ryuujin is running a Rifts recruitment for a Play-by-Post game.

For those that dare to brave, dare to dream, and dare to suffer.

My first ever role playing experience was in RIFTS and Palladium Fantasy. It's a wonder I am still so in love with the hobby.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Yeah, a number of books have gone into reprint now. And my second thought on seeing that is "Oh no, don't tell me you're putting your kickstarter money into a reprint of Mystic Russia and Palladium Fantasy books?" Hoping not, but every time Palladium gets a money injection, you tend to see the reprints roll out, because Kevin's seemingly focused on always trying to keep good chunks of their 30-year game line in print.

They didn't change any old stuff or take anything out. It's just added in nonsense, like every other Palladium "2nd edition" with the exception of Fantasy. If it's like the Rifts hardbound reprint you'll be losing the cover art anyway, which would be the one reason to really want the original, short of I guess a deep, guttural loathing of mega-heroes (I know I have that).

BerkerkLurk
Jul 22, 2001

I could never sleep my way to the top 'cause my alarm clock always wakes me right up

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Just leaving a note here for those that don't check the PbP recruitment thread that Ryuujin is running a Rifts recruitment for a Play-by-Post game.

For those that dare to brave, dare to dream, and dare to suffer.
Good luck. Years ago I tried doing this twice and people flaked pretty early on.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
Well, you were right all along, the whole thing flaked out before it could start.

On a more positive note, the FATAL & Friends review of Rifts Conversion Book 2 is done, our most painful F&F yet (to write, at least), so it's been added to the OP.

I also added more Palladium artists a little while back. I forget who I added! But they're linked, now.

Rifts World Book 34: Northern Gun 2 just came out. I actually found a copy of Rifts World Book 33: Northern Gun One a little while back used and picked it up; the weirdest part is since it was crowdfunded, it mentions most of the funders in the book as NPCs, and does them in bold print to boot. The kicker is that most people are just listed as a design of a given mech, so out of nowhere in each robot description it'll have something like "... the design team of Carl Gleba, Dayton DeFoe and Larry Todd Stanley set out to create..." It's a hilariously clunky way to fit all the funders in the book, though they are listed at the front as well. It just feels so emblematic of the weird decisions that go on there.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
Well, here's an oddity that I have to post: excerpts from the comic that Kevin Siembieda originally published before Palladium Books:

A+Plus #1

A+Plus #2

"'Balling' is what two people do when they're alone and want to enjoy each other..."

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Both of those articles mention that KS had work in the magazine, but neither of the actual works presented are by KS.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
Yeah, unfortunately. That's why I said "published" and not written or drawn. But he owned Megaton Publications, despite it only publishing a handful of comic books.

Captain Rufus
Sep 16, 2005

CAPTAIN WORD SALAD

OFF MY MEDS AGAIN PLEASE DON'T USE BIG WORDS

UNNECESSARY LINE BREAK
Man how come I never noticed this thread before?

I actually ran a Rifts game in the Navy for a while before a Mr Suitcase type with a shitload of Magic around the time of The Dark expansion got lots of us playing that instead.

I actually own and have completed the NGage game, and have an eventual plan to read and review every issue of The Rifter. I own like 2/3 rds of them for some reason.

This of course means having to at least read the rules to one of the newer RPGs and that god awful system. Though it is decent enough in the TMNT version. But mega damage rule sets blow. ( and with stuff like Basic Roleplaying, Savage Worlds, D6 System, or even Cartoon Action Hour honestly anything Palladiums rules might have application for is kind of moot. Hell, BESM and Mekton 2/Zeta. )

I kind of look at Palladium like GURPS. Good sourcebooks with sometimes neat art but a god awful system and pages upon pages of irrelevant and boring pedantic rules only designed for the most aspie of gamer. ( Though Palladium has better art and more infectiously fun fluff. GURPS is more a fair rule system gone completely out of control. Like Star Fleet Battles, Advanced Squad Leader, and other games that had a playable core but were pushed to the levels of pure IDGAF.)

I do appreciate the prices are reasonable as opposed to expensive hardcover full color coffee table books ala FFG's 40k RPGS though.

That is one thing I am glad old Kevvy is still a dinosaur about because gently caress that trend and anyone who likes it. ( They are game books not things to flip through. They get worn down and honestly I would like spiral bound so the fuckers stay open on a page I need. I appreciated this with the 7.5 edition Tunnels and Trolls.)

Sadly his way of managing the company and handling the Net is as archaic and legally paranoid as Games Workshop which makes it really hard to like them.

(Except you know, without 30 dollar 1 inch tall unpainted and unassembled Space Marine Captain models.)

Oh yeah. The Robotech Tactics KS has been pretty sad too. I just put in for some of the LE figures. Not only are they not part of Wave 1, but assholes going to Midwest conventions get Wave 1 stuff before people who loving helped fund the project! Apparently people said this was ok overwhelmingly in spite of nearly every online comment I have seen being pissed about it.

Oh well. Harmony Gold and Palladium do deserve each other. IP paranoid loonies basically surviving off poo poo from 20+ years ago and the few nerds who haven't moved on. :smith:

BerkerkLurk
Jul 22, 2001

I could never sleep my way to the top 'cause my alarm clock always wakes me right up
I'm playing Rifts again as a Dog Boy and some of the quirks of the system are jumping out at me. Here I am in a master psionic class with a ton of ISP and nothing to do with it. The magic sniffing powers that the class is built around are free to use with a percentile roll. The sensitive psionics you get on top of that, like Sense Magic or Sense Evil (which only works on ghosts and such) are redundant with crappier range. I will never, ever run out of ISP and as a Coalition soldier I'll probably never get to use it on techno wizardry.

Sixth Sense is great and See The Invisible has utility, but again, I better be creeping around a haunted house and not flying through the air having laser battles.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Captain Rufus posted:

I actually own and have completed the NGage game, and have an eventual plan to read and review every issue of The Rifter. I own like 2/3 rds of them for some reason.

As somebody that's worked with somebody else at doing F&F writeups of Rifts, that's a steep loving mountain you're staring at, though I imagine you don't mean something quite so in-depth. We've been doing this for two years and have thirteen books down. Granted, a full F&F review every two months feels pretty drat impressive when I look back at it.


Captain Rufus posted:

Though it is decent enough in the TMNT version.

Well, it's a mess there too, but it's more functional. It's still a system where trained ninjas are only able to sneak past people half the time, or where most PCs can throw themselves on a grenade without taking life-threatening damage. Or where you only kick all the time because it does more damage. Or some animal types are just plain better because the (unseen and undetailed) animal design system for some reason makes 1 BIO-E = 1 attribute point...

Captain Rufus posted:

That is one thing I am glad old Kevvy is still a dinosaur about because gently caress that trend and anyone who likes it.

It was honestly state-of-the-art layout for an RPG in 1986. It just never changed until about a half-decade ago or so.

BerkerkLurk posted:

Sixth Sense is great and See The Invisible has utility, but again, I better be creeping around a haunted house and not flying through the air having laser battles.

Yeah, you're essentially built as a supernatural watchdog... but also given some of the worst armor and weapons in the game. :v: Though they at least softened on that in later books, but I'd definitely suggest giving Dog Boys more of an edge on weapons and equipment. If this were a better game, I'd probably give them some spell or psionic disruption, preemption, or counterattack, but in Palladium you'd have to hash that sort of idea entirely from scratch as a new O.C.C. or some dumb nonsense like that.

Lightning Lord
Feb 21, 2013

$200 a day, plus expenses

A couple months ago some pipes burst in my basement and took out a huge stack of Rifts books. I only really feel bad because Ramon Perez gave them to me. I have no use for a bunch of 80s chemistry textbooks disguised as RPG books otherwise.

EDIT: Keep in mind I'm saying this as someone who's currently drinking coffee out of a Palladium Fantasy mug I got from the 2012 Palladium Open House which I attended because they're located in the same Detroit suburb I currently live in, who might attend the 2015 POH, and who likes KS as a person I have played RPGs with and talked to a couple times rather than a businessman alright. That is how screwed the pooch is.

Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Aug 5, 2014

Demon_Corsair
Mar 22, 2004

Goodbye stealing souls, hello stealing booty.

BerkerkLurk posted:

I'm playing Rifts again as a Dog Boy and some of the quirks of the system are jumping out at me. Here I am in a master psionic class with a ton of ISP and nothing to do with it. The magic sniffing powers that the class is built around are free to use with a percentile roll. The sensitive psionics you get on top of that, like Sense Magic or Sense Evil (which only works on ghosts and such) are redundant with crappier range. I will never, ever run out of ISP and as a Coalition soldier I'll probably never get to use it on techno wizardry.

Sixth Sense is great and See The Invisible has utility, but again, I better be creeping around a haunted house and not flying through the air having laser battles.

I always loved the concept and idea of the dog boy, but gently caress actually trying to play one.

Actually, that's pretty much rifts. I really need to spend some time with FATE and maybe throw together a couple classes. Then find a group to play with :effort:

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
Between the Wolfen, New Kennel, and Dog Boys, Palladium loves playable canines.

NTRabbit
Aug 15, 2012

i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches




Never played a Palladium game before, but I backed Robotech - latest news on that is that despite all the poo poo they stirred up by declaring they were going to sell it at GenCon before backers got theirs despite promising this would never be the case, and supporting that with a fake vote and an angsty backer update, and then that they had used a loophole to get out of a playing space fee by having their demo games and product in the RPG room instead of the minis hall, it now turns out that they made no allowance for potential customs inspections in their timetable.

Their container got flagged, and now it's not going to get to them in time for GenCon :cripes:

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
I don't know whether to laugh, or to laugh harder.

Lightning Lord
Feb 21, 2013

$200 a day, plus expenses

It was a long shot that it would make it to GenCon. I'm surprised they managed to get the product completed for a customs inspection to be a problem in the first place.

ManMythLegend
Aug 18, 2003

I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

NTRabbit posted:

Never played a Palladium game before, but I backed Robotech - latest news on that is that despite all the poo poo they stirred up by declaring they were going to sell it at GenCon before backers got theirs despite promising this would never be the case, and supporting that with a fake vote and an angsty backer update, and then that they had used a loophole to get out of a playing space fee by having their demo games and product in the RPG room instead of the minis hall, it now turns out that they made no allowance for potential customs inspections in their timetable.

Their container got flagged, and now it's not going to get to them in time for GenCon :cripes:

palladium.txt right here.

Updated List of GREAT BETRAYERS:
1) Steve Sheiring
2) U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement

RocknRollaAyatollah
Nov 26, 2008

Lipstick Apathy

NTRabbit posted:

Never played a Palladium game before, but I backed Robotech - latest news on that is that despite all the poo poo they stirred up by declaring they were going to sell it at GenCon before backers got theirs despite promising this would never be the case, and supporting that with a fake vote and an angsty backer update, and then that they had used a loophole to get out of a playing space fee by having their demo games and product in the RPG room instead of the minis hall, it now turns out that they made no allowance for potential customs inspections in their timetable.

Their container got flagged, and now it's not going to get to them in time for GenCon :cripes:


I'm waiting for the update about how no one can get their stuff unless they give to the kickstarter for the customs fees and fines.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

NTRabbit posted:

Never played a Palladium game before, but I backed Robotech - latest news on that is that despite all the poo poo they stirred up by declaring they were going to sell it at GenCon before backers got theirs despite promising this would never be the case, and supporting that with a fake vote and an angsty backer update, and then that they had used a loophole to get out of a playing space fee by having their demo games and product in the RPG room instead of the minis hall, it now turns out that they made no allowance for potential customs inspections in their timetable.

They've been better about overpromising and underdelivering in recent years, but it's still a big problem for Palladium. After all, their last fan-supported book ran about two years late (but is finally out, to be fair).

But "fake vote"? You have anything more on that?

NTRabbit
Aug 15, 2012

i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches




Alien Rope Burn posted:

But "fake vote"? You have anything more on that?

After they announced what they were doing there was a massive backlash in the comments, so they held a yes or no vote, except any backer who did not vote at all was going to be counted as a yes vote by default. Since the fix was in, most people didn't bother to vote and they got to trumpet a healthy 72% in favour of their bullshit.

They've also overpromised and undelivered on the minis, both in terms of delivery date, and the final product they've shown in photos. Single shipping in December last year (after hinting at and missing a possible October delivery) has turned into a first wave of some of the things in the starter box in August this year - which they have again missed, after missing January, April and May - and the rest in a second wave at a date they now refuse to publish because "too many people jumped on them" when they announced other dates, as though that were our fault. The minis are over engineered, too many parts, ugly seams, poor detail.

NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Aug 9, 2014

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



NTRabbit posted:

Never played a Palladium game before, but I backed Robotech - latest news on that is that despite all the poo poo they stirred up by declaring they were going to sell it at GenCon before backers got theirs despite promising this would never be the case, and supporting that with a fake vote and an angsty backer update, and then that they had used a loophole to get out of a playing space fee by having their demo games and product in the RPG room instead of the minis hall, it now turns out that they made no allowance for potential customs inspections in their timetable.

Their container got flagged, and now it's not going to get to them in time for GenCon :cripes:

:laffo: :laffo: :laffo: :laffo:

Cutedge
Mar 13, 2006

How can we lose so much more than we had before


It gets better though. The drat thing still hasn't shipped to all but a few backers because they only had the stuff to ship out the base level package and not the one that 96% of the backers did. So they're waiting on more cargo containers to get here, one of which got to Port of LA last week. It was supposed to get loaded Friday but didn't, and was set to be loaded but now is delayed further due to the port catching on fire.

I'm never gonna get my little plastic dudes. :(

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Between the Wolfen, New Kennel, and Dog Boys, Palladium loves playable canines.

And Coyle, Kankoran, and several races of alien canines in the execrable Aliens Unlimited.

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Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

theironjef posted:

And Coyle, Kankoran, and several races of alien canines in the execrable Aliens Unlimited.

Yeah, I didn't include the Wolfen sub-races because they're just a given. Why aren't they just called Coyoten and Foxen? Oh well.

Let's not forget Wujick's contribution in the form of Kuo-Ch'uan - Dog Boxing Kung Fu.

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