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ashgromnies posted:I might guess influence from Daoism might have influenced it. Precepts are broken all the time by Buddhists. After all, if one were to follow it to the greatest degree you'd follow all 8 precepts directed towards monks to better hasten enlightenment of all beings. Does anyone here follow the 7th precept(no singing, dancing, playing instruments, garlands, music listening)? 8 precepts are generally only followed on Uposatha days, and during meditation retreats. Otherwise laypeople are usually instructed to follow 5 precepts during daily life. You can certainly follow 8 precepts anytime you want, on your own, but it doesn't seem to be common. I play in a band so the 7th precept would be kind of tough for me. This is from a Theravada standpoint. I think I mentioned Uposatha days earlier in the thread and it seems they aren't really paid much attention in other traditions.
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Apr 3, 2014 17:41
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Paramemetic posted:No, of course that is true. Our karma is what it is. But out of compassion we can do our best for those who wrong us. If we are robbed, we can give generously out of compassion with the hope that they take a gift rather than steal. So with life we can sacrifice. They must still feel the results of their actions, the idea is simply to give a compassionate act out of loving kindness. Basically in line with Prickly Pete's apt sutta quote. By offering up to them, we harbor no ill will. By offering ourselves as a sacrifice, we don't spare them the karma of killing, but we might soften it? It's perhaps the best we can do. I wrote a big addendum yesterday to that reply, then deleted it. The gist of which is yes; if you are concentrated in and a radiant vessel of your compassion and harmlessness, it can change the mindset of the criminal. That's what so many anecdotes of the saints of all religions have, a situation where the robber is overwhelmed by a forgiveness he's never experienced before, and turns his life around.
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Apr 3, 2014 23:22
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I wonder if martyrs outnumber saints...
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Apr 4, 2014 00:13
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ashgromnies posted:Can someone explain how the animal and human realms are differentiated? Accepting evolution says to me that I'm no different from any other animal. Given time and nurturement, sentient animal species could theoretically evolve to similar intelligence and emotional capability. You're the kid in the 6th grade, mammals are in pre-school.
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Apr 5, 2014 01:05
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I've had a passing interesting Buddhism for a while now. I visited some of the temples in a recent trip to Japan and they didn't really synch with my initial understanding of Buddhism. The Sanjusangen-do in Kyoto was particularly strange. It had 1,000 kannon statues and about 30 statues of guardian deities. The temple did discuss the links to Hinduism but the English guidance was a bit bare. What is the role of these deities and kannons? Do they symbolize certain concepts or teachings? I suppose like most people in the West, my world view is scientific and rational, which makes it difficult to accept things like the narakas, devas, certain Buddhas having the power to destroy karma, etc. Having studied some phenomenology in college, it was these elements of Buddhism that made the most sense to me. I am interested in exploring Buddhism a bit more so what would be the best approach for me?
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Apr 6, 2014 10:58
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adamarama posted:I've had a passing interesting Buddhism for a while now. I visited some of the temples in a recent trip to Japan and they didn't really synch with my initial understanding of Buddhism. The Sanjusangen-do in Kyoto was particularly strange. It had 1,000 kannon statues and about 30 statues of guardian deities. The temple did discuss the links to Hinduism but the English guidance was a bit bare. What is the role of these deities and kannons? Do they symbolize certain concepts or teachings? I suppose like most people in the West, my world view is scientific and rational, which makes it difficult to accept things like the narakas, devas, certain Buddhas having the power to destroy karma, etc. Having studied some phenomenology in college, it was these elements of Buddhism that made the most sense to me. I am interested in exploring Buddhism a bit more so what would be the best approach for me? You can find a lot of it translated to English here http://www.accesstoinsight.org/.
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Apr 6, 2014 14:31
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ashgromnies posted:Can someone explain how the animal and human realms are differentiated? Accepting evolution says to me that I'm no different from any other animal. Given time and nurturement, sentient animal species could theoretically evolve to similar intelligence and emotional capability. Ultimately the dharma aims to break down the boundaries that we as sentient beings arbitrarily place between things. The human brain is so good at pattern recognition that it starts to believe the differences it detects are inherent in the objects themselves. But those differences aren't really there. Differentiation like that is a useful tool - one that arose through evolution in order to better fulfill our cravings - but that is all it is, nothing more. Likewise, there are tools in Buddhism that have a purpose early in our development. One of those is to separate humans and animals into "realms". This in order to better explain favorable and unfavorable birth. An animal certainly has both desire and ignorance, perhaps more ignorance than we do, but in many ways there are some animals that possess a certain degree of sentience as well. An animal will certainly not be able to comprehend the dharma as we can. But living in a different "realm" is not the root cause of this, it is simply because, as you might expect, that the animal doesn't have all of the faculties that we possess. And yes, sentient animals can and do arise from less-sentient ones, as humans once did. Buddhism, as far as I'm aware, never makes claims that there are permanent realms that different species will invariably fall into. Impermanence and lack of inherent existence are central to Buddhism.
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Apr 7, 2014 00:02
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Does anyone know if there's maybe something like a weekly podcast for things related to buddhism? Say interviews, book reviews, discussion of suttras... that sort of thing.
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Apr 7, 2014 22:14
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I listen to Gil Fronsdal's dharma talks sometimes. There's a podcast or you can listen here: http://www.audiodharma.org Surprisingly the Tricycle magazine podcast has had some interesting guests as well.
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Apr 8, 2014 12:42
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What do you think about the dorje shugden controversy? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Shugden_controversy We in the west tend to see Buddhism has infinitely more tolerant than abrahamic religions because of its tendency to benignly synchronize local beliefs (andbecause we know next to nothing about buddhism's history and nuances) but I have to assume that there is some form of heresy control that is is tolerated by the religion.It makes sense that the Dalai lama would try to root out ultra factionists when he's going for a nationalist ( and pan Buddhist in the eyes of the uninvested) position in the eyes of the international community. It also seems that this entity is closer to a asura than to a bodhissatva, which means he could be an obstacle to tathagata thussness. Ps: This classification http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyalpo is apparently what I was talking about. Have there ever been Buddhist inquisitions that went farther than competing monasteries? Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 20:53
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Patrül Rinpoché’s Words of My Perfect Teacher: Sexual misconduct also includes acts associated with particular persons, places and circumstances: masturbation; sexual relations with a person who is married, or committed to someone else; or with a person who is free, but in broad daylight, during observation of a one-day vow, during illness, distress, pregnancy, bereavement, menstruation, or recovery from child-birth; in a place where the physical representations of the Three Jewels are present; with one’s parents, other prohibited family members, or with a prepubescent child; in the mouth or anus, and so on. (p. 107 in the Padmakara Translation) I get how most of these can be construed as misconduct that can lead to non-mindfulness and lack of control, but oral and anal seem oddly arbitrary.
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Apr 13, 2014 18:55
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ashgromnies posted:Patrül Rinpoché’s Words of My Perfect Teacher: I don't agree with that interpretation at all. The precepts are about moral conduct that reduces suffering to others. They are often referred to as "gifts" that one gives to other beings - following the precepts keeps you from inflicting suffering on other beings due to careless action. The precepts, as listed in the suttas, don't ever mention specific acts as far as I am aware. They discuss certain types of partners (such as women who are under the care of relatives and not available, married women, etc) who should be avoided by those following the precepts. But rules about masturbation, or oral sex and that kind of thing are only present when referring to the monastic code, which doesn't apply to laypeople except those on retreat or observing higher precepts. Sexual acts between consenting adults who are not already married or involved elsewhere don't seem to violate the 3rd precept as far as I've ever read.
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Apr 13, 2014 21:44
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If anyone else enjoys burning incense while meditating is interested in some interesting Japanese incenses, I stumbled into https://www.asakichionline.com while I was visiting San Francisco and they have a much better and cheaper selection than Amazon. I like the Beautiful Spring, Morning Zen, Sitting Zen and I have an assortment of Nippon Kodo Cho Cho San cones which burn very intensely but only for around ten minutes.
ashgromnies fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 00:04
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I love traditional Tibetan sandalwood incense, because it smells like burning logs of sandalwood and reminds me of monasteries in Tibet.
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Apr 16, 2014 00:50
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:I love traditional Tibetan sandalwood incense, because it smells like burning logs of sandalwood and reminds me of monasteries in Tibet. I picked up some Japanese sandalwood incense. It's like the same thing except they miss the point. I also got a singing bowl and wrist mala. Singing bowl meditation is pretty sweet. So loud and consuming.
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Apr 16, 2014 14:05
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:I love traditional Tibetan sandalwood incense, because it smells like burning logs of sandalwood and reminds me of monasteries in Tibet. I haven't smelled or had real sandalwood incense in ages since it was listed as endangered. The Indian stuff you could get in the '70's was insanely good.
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Apr 16, 2014 23:07
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:I love traditional Tibetan sandalwood incense, because it smells like burning logs of sandalwood and reminds me of monasteries in Tibet. Any brands / sites you'd recommend for Tibetan sandalwood incense?
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Apr 17, 2014 01:20
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I'd never heard it was endangered, but for how wildly popular it is and apparently being really slow growing, that is underestandable. drat.
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Apr 17, 2014 07:07
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Folderol posted:Any brands / sites you'd recommend for Tibetan sandalwood incense? Mine is from Nepal and I got it through a monastery in Seattle. No idea where to find it online though.
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Apr 17, 2014 17:30
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Mine is from Nepal and I got it through a monastery in Seattle. No idea where to find it online though.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:49
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Splurgerwitzl posted:Are there any resources in the Seattle area that you'd recommend? Sakya Monastery of Tibetan Buddhism has a store open limited hours which is super cheap or Pema Kharpo, which is expensive but run by an awesome Tibetan guy who is worth giving a bit of extra money for how good his customer service is.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:18
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If you mean just general resources, HE Garchen Rinpoche also just opened a Drikung Kagyu center there. I'm at work but if I remember or you're interested I can edit in details later.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:27
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Folderol posted:Any brands / sites you'd recommend for Tibetan sandalwood incense? I was just kidding about the Japanese stuff getting the point wrong earlier BTW, it was a joke about Zen Buddhism. The Japanese sandalwood incense(and Zen) are both quite nice, though I haven't compared it to the Tibetan stuff.
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Apr 17, 2014 22:16
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Would it be rude to ask a question? I want to know why cessation of personal suffering is so important. I understand the cessation of someone else's suffering (no one wants someone to starve to death), but my personal suffering is what made me who I am. I wouldn't change a bit of it. As a Christian, I believe that personal suffering and struggle is important. Tears are the companion of the penitent man, after all.
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Apr 18, 2014 19:15
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Smoking Crow posted:Would it be rude to ask a question? I want to know why cessation of personal suffering is so important. I understand the cessation of someone else's suffering (no one wants someone to starve to death), but my personal suffering is what made me who I am. I wouldn't change a bit of it. As a Christian, I believe that personal suffering and struggle is important. Tears are the companion of the penitent man, after all. Because even if this life is awesome and rad, the next one may feel like an eternity of suffering; it's actually why being born as a human is considered a more fortunate birth than being born a god; you're not blinded by how great things are and forget that how great things are is transient. Plus, there's a really solid argument that reducing suffering, even as a Christian, is a good thing. This is from Urban Dharma, it's a talk given by a Zen monk at a Catholic high school, so if it's the talk I remember it's A: addressing Buddhism in very simple terms and B: using a contrasting Christian framework. You might find it interesting, because (again, if it's the talk I'm thinking of) it discusses some of the root differences of the underlying theology.
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Apr 18, 2014 20:16
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Also, keep in mind that what you call "suffering" might not be the same thing as "dukkha", which is what the buddha talks about. It is translated "suffering", but "suffering" covers a lot of things in our languages. "Dukkha", from buddha's point of view, is insatisfaction with things as they are, which is useless and causes useless pain. The cessation of dukkha is not the same thing as the cessation of pain, or difficult feelings. The cessation of dukkha is just to deal with things as they are, without being disappointed by anything. If you hurt your foot, you feel pain. Dukkha would be to complain about the pain and wanting it to go away, suffering because it does not go away when you wish, etc, adding unnecessary suffering to pain... But dukkha is not the same thing as the absence of pain. I don't think buddhism claims that you can be free of pain of any kind, or of any suffering of this kind. What you can free yourself of, from the buddhist point of view, is the dissatisfaction with what is, wether it is painful or pleasant. From this point of view, every suffering moment in your life is an opportunity to practice, so it can be viewed as you said from a christian point of view : suffering, in this life, allows you to evolve as a human being. Ugrok fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 20:24
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Smoking Crow posted:Would it be rude to ask a question? I want to know why cessation of personal suffering is so important. I understand the cessation of someone else's suffering (no one wants someone to starve to death), but my personal suffering is what made me who I am. I wouldn't change a bit of it. As a Christian, I believe that personal suffering and struggle is important. Tears are the companion of the penitent man, after all. The cessation of suffering is the escape from samsara, the cycle of birth and rebirth. If your "personal struggles and suffering" are so important to you, why would you want to spend an eternity in Heaven?
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Apr 18, 2014 22:55
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Alternately: due to the doctrine of anatta(not-self), there is no such thing as personal suffering, only suffering. The idea of ownership as such is wrong view.
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Apr 19, 2014 00:03
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ashgromnies posted:Alternately: due to the doctrine of anatta(not-self), there is no such thing as personal suffering, only suffering. The idea of ownership as such is wrong view.
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Apr 19, 2014 00:13
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Smoking Crow posted:Would it be rude to ask a question? I want to know why cessation of personal suffering is so important. I understand the cessation of someone else's suffering (no one wants someone to starve to death), but my personal suffering is what made me who I am. I wouldn't change a bit of it. As a Christian, I believe that personal suffering and struggle is important. Tears are the companion of the penitent man, after all. It's a good point; your view is contrary to many 'christians' who believe that Jesus did all their hard work and struggle for them. As has been noted, the word 'suffering' is perhaps not a perfect translation, although I feel it is better than 'stress'. Dukkha is also wallowing in ignorance for a universal age- multiply that times billions. A Buddha is aware of the buddha nature of all beings as his own nature, and simultaneously aware of the buddha nature obscured by the ignorance of all those beings of their buddha nature, which is a mass of dukkha. In your case, maybe translate buddha nature to Christ-mind. A nascent Buddha, which Gautama was before his renunciation, gets a glimpse of that...imo.
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Apr 19, 2014 02:41
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Smoking Crow posted:Would it be rude to ask a question? I want to know why cessation of personal suffering is so important. I understand the cessation of someone else's suffering (no one wants someone to starve to death), but my personal suffering is what made me who I am. I wouldn't change a bit of it. As a Christian, I believe that personal suffering and struggle is important. Tears are the companion of the penitent man, after all. I'm not speaking from knowledge here but I also feel like this focus might be something of a western import. I could be way off base, but meditation and spirituality are very tied together with mental health in this country. Just a suspicion, I'd love to hear more from someone more knowledgeable. Mr. Mambold posted:You're the kid in the 6th grade, mammals are in pre-school. a dog from hell fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Apr 19, 2014 |
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Apr 19, 2014 04:38
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Splurgerwitzl posted:I'm not sure I buy this metaphor. What is the criteria? This conceptualization refers to enlightenment era values based on the intellect. How can we swallow that we are superior living creatures when we live in so much ignorance and excess? I see pea-brained birds living with more native intelligence than I do most people. If you were a truly foreign perspective to human culture, would our activities amount to any more sense than a dog barking? Because our capacity to practice dharma is higher than other animals. We are not in any way "better" than them, we are all merely emptiness, but human birth is auspicious because humans are conditioned by desire, but not by ignorance. The first link of the chain in the cycle of samsara is ignorance. If we are ignorant of the cycle, we cannot break it. By overcoming ignorance, we are able to set ourselves upon the path, and ultimately achieve enlightenment. Animals are conditioned by ignorance, so it is much much harder for them to practice Dharma or escape from samsara. Therefore, our capacity for achievement in this lifetime is higher. If you're in 6th grade, you have learned a little bit. You're aware you have more things to learn. You're the cool kid in school because you're in ~~middle school~~ but you're not the top dawg yet. Preschoolers do not even know they are in school to learn though. They are just all wandering around being stupid ignorant kids, with no idea about how ~~cool~~ you are, or how uncool they are. They're just doing stupid preschool things without any thought about college at all. You, however, know you will be an astronaut and/or fireman. Maybe you're not sure how, but you will be. Pushing the metaphor a bit, it's important that everyone graduates in this scenario. Even the preschoolers will eventually gain the right causes and conditions to be sixth graders and ultimately to be graduates. Animals are ignorant, they do not know that they are in samsara, they cannot self-assess to realize that their desires are the cause of their suffering, so it is much harder for them to attain enough merit for a more auspicious rebirth, but they will get a more auspicious rebirth, and they will achieve enlightenment in the end.
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Apr 19, 2014 06:38
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Smoking Crow posted:Would it be rude to ask a question? I want to know why cessation of personal suffering is so important. I understand the cessation of someone else's suffering (no one wants someone to starve to death), but my personal suffering is what made me who I am. I wouldn't change a bit of it. As a Christian, I believe that personal suffering and struggle is important. Tears are the companion of the penitent man, after all. Cessation of personal suffering is important because suffering sucks. It is good to grow from your suffering, I am glad you have been able to frame your personal struggles in a positive way. At the same time, I am sad that you will continue to experience those sufferings until you die. After you die, you believe you will be reborn in heaven, but I believe that even if you are reborn in heaven, you will suffer there too, until you die there, and again and again. You will be suffering forever, and even if you grow from those struggles every time, you will continue to feel the pain of loss, the sadness of desires that are unfulfilled, and so on. So the cessation of suffering is important because nobody enjoys suffering. The cessation of personal suffering is important because how can I help you to attain liberation from suffering if I myself am suffering? Then the blind lead the blind. Your conception of suffering is also different from Buddhist thinking. "Dukkha" is rough to translate. Suffering works, so does stress, so does "unsatisfactoriness." The general idea is that in this world of samsara, we all suffer the four main sufferings of birth, old age, sickness, and death. There is no recourse in this. Further, because of impermanence, nothing in this world can bring us any sort of real and meaningful joy. Does seeing your parents make you happy? They will die, and you will never see them again. Does hearing birds chirp make you happy? You will die, and never hear them again. Does visiting your childhood home bring you joy? It will burn to ash, or be deliberately destroyed, it will be built over, and nobody will remember it ever stood there. If you enjoy a bowl of ice cream, it will taste very good, but soon the bowl will be empty and you will wish you had more. Do you love life? Don't get used to it - your death and decay are inevitable, and when you are dead people will pay a lot of money to get rid of you, and in but a few short years nothing alive will know what you looked like or have heard your voice. This is suffering. Of course, you might say, "well, when my parents died, it made me appreciate other things so much more!" But those other things will likewise die, and you will die, so this is an empty lesson. All attachment, all aversion, is suffering. If you have even one fear, that is suffering. If you don't like certain foods, that is suffering. Are you happy with how much money you make? That is suffering, because even if you are, someday you will not make that much money, because someday you will be infirm and enfeebled, unable to feed yourself, perhaps kept alive by nurses who change your diapers and, if you're lucky, wipe your rear end instead of leaving it to rot. Death is the inevitable result of birth, sickness and aging are likewise inevitable. Everything you enjoy in life will change, everything you want will be gone, everything you dislike will be present. This is suffering, this is the unsatisfactoriness of samsara. Even if your personal struggles have made you stronger (and that is good!) they were still struggles. And Buddhism has no intent to free you from the drama of your personal life, the goal is not freedom from experiences! Even if you achieve liberation and become a great bodhisattva, your parents still die. You still die. But a liberated being does not suffer when this happens, because they have achieved freedom from suffering. In the words of the great stoic philosopher Epictetus, "it is not things which bother us, but the view we take of them." Dukkha is not death or dying or struggle or paying bills or enjoying a delicious dessert only to be sad when the bowl is empty, Dukkha is the unsatisfactoriness of this whole world, a world where all of those things are inevitable and constant for most beings. I realize this post is like, super morbid and seems like it's trying to bring you down, but that's not really my intent. Instead, I'm just calling to your attention that even if you use your experiences to improve yourself, which is really a great thing, this world of samsara is still unsatisfactory. In this very world, children are dying of preventable diseases, right now. As just one dude, I cannot do anything about this. As a Buddha, I can do a lot more. So I should attain individual liberation and cessation of personal suffering so that I can help others. Someday, maybe no children will die of preventable diseases. Even if they continue to do so forever, as a liberated being my capacity to help those children suffer even just a little less becomes much greater. Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Apr 19, 2014 |
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Apr 19, 2014 07:27
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i hate suffering!!!
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Apr 19, 2014 08:56
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midnightclimax posted:Does anyone know if there's maybe something like a weekly podcast for things related to buddhism? Say interviews, book reviews, discussion of suttras... that sort of thing. My favorites are Against The Stream (has lots of Dharma talks, mostly I listen to Noah Levine because he's funny), The Interdependence Project (A good mix of Dharma Talks, and related discussions / interviews), and 5 Minute Dharma.
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Apr 19, 2014 09:37
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Frykte posted:i hate suffering!!! A kind of suffering in itself.
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Apr 19, 2014 13:00
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What's the end-state of universal enlightenment? One can be an arhat in this lifetime, correct? What if an arhat reproduced? If arhats don't reproduce, is the end state that there are no more sentient beings as they've all escaped samsara? Or does rebirth continue without suffering? Does nirvana have aspects of rebirth?
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Apr 19, 2014 21:02
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ashgromnies posted:What's the end-state of universal enlightenment? Those are abstract questions unrelated to your personal experience and no answers to them will help you come any close to any kind of cataclysmic "reminding" that I personally think is so important. 1. No such thing as an end state imo. People are born to suffer until the end of time, it is a result of culture and the human condition. It's up to the individual to escape, if there is such a thing as a choice in the matter. 2. Yes it is possible I think, for all people. An arahat would not want to reproduce. His sexual energies are finished, subsumed into each other. Any possible child would be born into the human condition just like everyone else. 3. I dunno about this question, it never ends. I don't perceive an arc from ignorance to enlightenment for a society. Enlightenment is the end of society/mind in an individual. Not something that can be passed on. It's the realization that there's nothing intrinsically real to pass on. 4. Not sure, and not sure. I wonder about this too, and I see that it is senseless wondering mostly.
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Apr 19, 2014 21:27
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ashgromnies posted:What's the end-state of universal enlightenment? A whole lot of enlightenment. ashgromnies posted:One can be an arhat in this lifetime, correct? What if an arhat reproduced? It's possible, with varying degrees of likeliness depending on your school (Vajrayana holds it to be possible moreso than other schools). Arahats cannot reproduce since they cannot have sex. Looking at it overly-pragmatically, if you're beyond desire you're not going to be able to get a boner.  ashgromnies posted:If arhats don't reproduce, is the end state that there are no more sentient beings as they've all escaped samsara? I'm not certain of this one, I think the answer is that it's possible given an infinite amount of time, but if you consider how many sentient beings there are and how few attain nirvana (let's very generously call it a handful a year, given we live in an age of Dharma) contrasted with how many lifeforms there are in this world alone, combined with the fact that knowledge of the Dharma will fade for a time, I think you're going to need to be more concerned with the heat death of the universe. Good theological question though, I'd be curious to ask a monk this one. ashgromnies posted:Or does rebirth continue without suffering? Does nirvana have aspects of rebirth? Nirvana is, by definition, beyond concepts.
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Apr 19, 2014 21:36
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:combined with the fact that knowledge of the Dharma will fade for a time, I've heard this line of thought before but I don't fully understand it. Can you recommend other resources or speak to the idea of the decline of Dharma and how it fits in to a current context? On Wikipedia it talks more about Mahayana Buddhism's idea of the decline of Dharma than the other traditions. Are we doomed to continue a cycle of increasingly-unlikely rebirths into less and less Dharma-filled times? Does Rebirth necessarily even involve a respect for chronology (could I be reborn in the 500s?)
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Apr 19, 2014 23:13
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