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Ron Jeremy posted:The war of 1812 was a win for the navy. Back when, there were strong feelings about standing armies and such. The opposite tradition was the militia on the village green and all that, but you couldn't exactly muster a frigate on the village green*. Warships required a huge amount capital and manpower to sustain. Once the war broke out, the navy validated its own existence. It was a political win. But as far as a military win, not really, no. They held their own against a small contingent of a distracted enemy, nothing more.
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Sep 30, 2013 15:54
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Has anyone read The Soviet Tragedy by Martin Malia? I have to read it for my History of the Soviet Union class. It's pretty interesting and it appears to be considered the premier history on the Soviet Union. The Soviets were definitely a much more interesting and terrifying adversary for the West than the jihadists and terrorists of modern times.
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Oct 1, 2013 06:02
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Mustang posted:The Soviets were definitely a much more interesting and terrifying adversary for the West than the jihadists and terrorists of modern times. Maybe because the Soviet Union was part-based on a legit-looking alternative to the modern capitalist system (albeit very heavily mismanaged). A way scarier adversary (or enemy within) than islamofascism or whatever the bogeyman du jour is.
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Oct 2, 2013 17:09
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I think it's partly that it seems a lot more reasonable for a random person to become disenchanted with capitalism and become a communist than for a person to want to become a Islamic fundamentalist. Yeah there have been a few high profile cases, but high profile people were jumping ship back and forth on both sides for a while during the cold war. Even our most high-profile turncoats for this generation of forever-war are at worst neutral and in reality very western-positive whistleblowers, rather than actual defectors. The other side of it is an actual state power rather than a bunch of marginalized guerrillas operating on intelligence agency slush funds and opium sales. The combination of real ideological alternative and state sponsorship made communism a much more real threat.
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Oct 6, 2013 17:58
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Falklands books: Vulcan 607 is a great book about the Black Buck raids and how the UK cobbled together enough tankers to drop some bombs nearly 7000 miles away. Tony Groom's memoir, Diver, about his time as a Royal Navy clearance diver (and later exploits as a commercial diver) is very good, and has a fair amount about his time in the Falklands removing UXBs from Royal Navy ships. Cold War: David Hoffman's The Dead Hand is a frankly terrifying investigation into the USSR's semiautomatic system that, in the event that the USSR's leadership were taken out, would let loose a retaliatory strike. It's also a great account of the cold war NBC arms race and the various soviet programs. ]Red Eagles by Steve Davies is an interesting look at the 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron, Constant Peg, and the MiGs that the US managed to acquire during the cold war. WWII: Anthony Beevor's books on WWII are most excellent - notably D-Day and the Fall of Berlin. WWI: Robert Massie's Castles of Steel (and the earlier [url=http://www.amazon.com/Dreadnought-Britain-Germany-Coming-ebook/dp/B0089EHK70/]) is a very detailed account of the naval arms race between the UK and Germany in WWI.
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Oct 11, 2013 18:40
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Godholio posted:It was a political win. But as far as a military win, not really, no. They held their own against a small contingent of a distracted enemy, nothing more. That's a fair assessment, but I would reiterate the strength of will and character that the Navy and it's men showed during the war. Sure, there was the normal amount of Navy bullshit (which was perhaps some of the most shocking parts; I had this view of American history as sunshine and glory, uneducated as I am), but in the end it took a significant amount of courage to be willing to face the reputation of the British Navy, and to believe that victory was possible at all. The parallel would be ridiculous, like the modern Malaysian Navy crippling an American CSG. EDIT: Thinking on it, I'm not sure it was much of a political "win', in the typical sense of the word. I would argue the political handling of the affair was equal in clumsiness to the military handling. Somehow, both spheres lined up just the right way to achieve a reasonable outcome. I think the author did a good job of capturing the fallacies in both arenas, and describing the mood of the time. Sacrilage fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 04:00
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Casimir Radon posted:Are you guys all going to line up to punch Chelsea when it gets out of prison? This actually pre-dated Snowden and Manning. The order was drafted before they really did their damage. Some bimbo in Washington decided that all areas where SECRET material is handled needed to be "PED free". Didn't bother asking anyone just how much of a submarine is a SECRET material handling area. Answer: every square inch.
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Oct 22, 2013 04:02
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Does anyone know of any books that cover the war graffiti of different wars?
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Oct 22, 2013 16:19
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Sacrilage posted:That's a fair assessment, but I would reiterate the strength of will and character that the Navy and it's men showed during the war. Sure, there was the normal amount of Navy bullshit (which was perhaps some of the most shocking parts; I had this view of American history as sunshine and glory, uneducated as I am), but in the end it took a significant amount of courage to be willing to face the reputation of the British Navy, and to believe that victory was possible at all. The parallel would be ridiculous, like the modern Malaysian Navy crippling an American CSG. Considering the Navy was facing virtual disbandment, I'd say the fact that they came out looking pretty baller and allowed to continue existing makes it a political win. The US felt like it had a pretty good idea of what the Brits could bring to the fight...after all, this was only three decades after the Revolution. And that time around, the Royal Navy actually ran a seaborne logistics/troop movement chain that wouldn't be topped until loving D-Day, and it wasn't enough. Add in a continental war and a global naval war that the Brits were fully committed to, and the Americans were feeling pretty good about the odds. Unfortunately there were few good generals available to the Army, and Jefferson & Co. had basically gutted both the War and Naval Depts since taking power. The Americans were lucky to get off so easily, considering how inept they were. I'm glad you brought this back up, I'd forgotten to throw this book on my amazon wish list. Edit: V That's why I think it's a shame nobody gives a drat about that one...everyone just laughs at Canada burning down the White House (which didn't really happen that way) and moves on to the Civil War. Godholio fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Oct 22, 2013 |
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Oct 22, 2013 17:47
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Godholio posted:The Americans were lucky to get off so easily, considering how inept they were. That fact is really what I took away from the narrative; given the ineptitude on so many fronts, especially against such an adversary, the US really, seriously, dodged a bullet here. After reading the real details of the war, I'm convinced that this was about as close as we could have come to losing the country, and still pull through. It was interested, as well, to see the political infighting and politics between the parties and powers. I had thought that divisive politics in Washington was a new development. I was wrong.
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Oct 22, 2013 18:15
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Sacrilage posted:That fact is really what I took away from the narrative; given the ineptitude on so many fronts, especially against such an adversary, the US really, seriously, dodged a bullet here. After reading the real details of the war, I'm convinced that this was about as close as we could have come to losing the country, and still pull through. http://www.constitution.org/rf/sedition_1798.htm
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Oct 22, 2013 18:22
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Sacrilage posted:That fact is really what I took away from the narrative; given the ineptitude on so many fronts, especially against such an adversary, the US really, seriously, dodged a bullet here. After reading the real details of the war, I'm convinced that this was about as close as we could have come to losing the country, and still pull through. I always thought Washington was more cooperative and moderate back when they were killing each other in a civil war, as opposed to now where there's various snarky twitter accounts and political commentators.
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Oct 30, 2013 03:13
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anne frank fanfic posted:I always thought Washington was more cooperative and moderate back when they were killing each other in a civil war, as opposed to now where there's various snarky twitter accounts and political commentators. I assume you're trolling GiP again, but serious answer: absolutely not. A then-recently-retired Secretary of the Treasury challenged the then-Vice President to a loving pistol duel (and lost).
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Oct 30, 2013 03:50
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Just ordered With the Old Breed and a lonely kind of war from the library for holiday reading. I was also wandering around doing Christmas shopping when I found a 2nd hand bookshop. Found a book called Unexploded Bomb by Maj A.B. Hartley for my dad, which is a first-hand account of UXB disposal in WWII, looks pretty interesting. Achtung Panzer was a cool book. The first half of it is case studies of almost every Tank battle from the first world war, lots of maps, very clearly written. The effect of the tanks was striking - by the time they made contact half the tanks would have broken down or been hit by artillery, so a couple of tanks would drive along the lines at walking pace shooting everything up. It would be like if a M113 with a stuck first gear driving around was enough to rout hundreds of men. The rest of the book outlines interwar tank building and how a Guderian's view on how a panzer corps should be organized and how it would fight - we saw how that worked out in 1940, didn't we. The chapter where he rants about the treaty of versailles taking away all his toys away is also pretty funny. So what's everyone else reading over Christmas?
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Dec 20, 2013 09:55
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I just finished Matterhorn. Holy gently caress, what a great read that was. One of the best novels about Vietnam for sure.
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Dec 20, 2013 16:10
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suboptimal posted:I just finished Matterhorn. Holy gently caress, what a great read that was. One of the best novels about Vietnam for sure. Yeah I don't even know why I picked it up, I think as a random amazon "you might also like" but it's so well done.
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Dec 20, 2013 16:17
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suboptimal posted:I just finished Matterhorn. Holy gently caress, what a great read that was. One of the best novels about Vietnam for sure. One of the best novels period. This is such an amazing book, I recommend it to everyone.
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Dec 20, 2013 22:31
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If you have it on Kindle you can loan it too, so if anyone would like to take that offer lemme know I can lend it.
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Dec 21, 2013 03:07
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In the spirit of Christmas, I can lend the following kindle books, just leave me or PM me your e-mail address (the one that's linked to your kindle): Bloodstained Sea: The U.S.Coast Guard in the Battle of the Atlantic, 1941-1944 - Pretty interesting book about the CG's role as convoy escorts during WWII. Bering Storms - Novel about a CGI guy who runs into some trouble in Alaska, takes place on crab boats, a little campy but if you like Cussler you'll probably like this. Keeps the CG/Maritime stuff pretty realistic. Angles of Attack, An A-6 Intruder Pilot's War - bog standard account of the first Gulf War by an A-6 driver. A Lonely Kind of War: Forward Air Controller - I have read a ton of books about FACs, and they kind of blur together. I believe this is the one where the guy literally lands on a dirt road and shoves some commandos into the luggage compartment on his plane in order to extract them. Balls of steel. Easy Target: The Long Strange Trip of a Scout Pilot in Vietnam - A little tongue in cheek, but still a solid book about a scout helo pilot in vietnam. Inside the President's Helicopter: Reflections of a White House Senior Pilot - Really interesting account of the guy who flew the President's helicopter around the Nixon administration. Neat to learn about the infighting between the Marine and Army pilots as well.
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Dec 24, 2013 19:23
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suboptimal posted:I just finished Matterhorn. Holy gently caress, what a great read that was. One of the best novels about Vietnam for sure. It's so loving good, it drew me in and I couldn't put it down until it was done. I picked a copy up for my dad at Powell's in Portland and they had a signed copy for just like 9 bucks. Added that to my library.
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Dec 24, 2013 20:03
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Elendil004 posted:A Lonely Kind of War: Forward Air Controller - I have read a ton of books about FACs, and they kind of blur together. I believe this is the one where the guy literally lands on a dirt road and shoves some commandos into the luggage compartment on his plane in order to extract them. Balls of steel. That definitely is in Here There are Tigers, except it's not just "some commandos," it's a couple of dudes who went way behind enemy lines in Laos to capture some NVA officer, the extraction (including the prisoner) is done by the author in his O-2 on the aforementioned dirt road.
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Dec 24, 2013 22:33
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If you haven't read Matterhorn gently caress you
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Dec 25, 2013 23:24
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Smiling Jack posted:Matterhorn is loving amazing. Seriously no-poo poo go read this loving book right now amazing. Seriously look at this pro-as-gently caress post from back in the day
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Dec 25, 2013 23:25
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That was a good recommendation.
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Dec 25, 2013 23:35
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Elendil004 posted:Bering Storms - Novel about a CGI guy who runs into some trouble in Alaska, takes place on crab boats, a little campy but if you like Cussler you'll probably like this. Keeps the CG/Maritime stuff pretty realistic. lmbo what is this poo poo Amazon Plot Summary posted:King crab fishing. Murder. Hidden bunker. Beautiful pilot. In the Bering Sea, work is not always the deadliest worry.  
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Dec 28, 2013 09:59
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krispykremessuck posted:lmbo what is this poo poo Some prior OS' version of CG fanfic?
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Dec 28, 2013 12:35
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As I said, it's good if you like that type of book, Cussler, DuBrul's style of writing, etc.
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Dec 28, 2013 14:14
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Once A Warrior King by David Donovan http://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Warrior-King-Memories-Officer/dp/0304367133 Written by a guy who used to be a MACV in Vietnam, a really good read from an angle I hadn't read much about before. He doesn't come across as too anti war or anti American, he is just a honest man who tells it as he saw it. Obviously I've never been military, so you may see things a bit differently?
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Jan 5, 2014 20:00
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Morgan and Berhow's Rings of Supersonic Steel is ostensibly a history of the Nike missile system, but kind of grows into the entire Cold War-history of Army Air Defense Command. I knew all these things existed, but I wasn't prepared for the scale--practically every major US city had belts of 90mm-120mm antiaircraft guns around it in the 1950s. Anyway, an interesting read, especially since it maps out where everything was, and what's left to look at today.
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Jan 8, 2014 20:14
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You all need this book: 15 Minutes: General Curtis LeMay and the Countdown to Nuclear Annihilation. The description is pretty useful: Book Description posted:Packed with startling revelations, this inside look at the secret side of the Cold War exposes just how close America came to total annihilation. You are all welcome. 
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Jan 8, 2014 20:30
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Gonna have to read those two books. I'd really like to see what is declassified or being talked about now and compare it to the poo poo that I got up to and involved in. But, here's a book that every loving officer and SNCO I ever met had on their bookshelf. Devil's Guard is about a Nazi SS officer who joins the French Foreign Legion and goes to Vietnam. At the time it was handed around as a "true story of how we should have treated the loving gooks" and poo poo like that. Now it's hotly debated as being just straight fiction. It's still an interesting read (I got handed a copy by the XO when I got my Corporal and read through it because gently caress it, why not?) Dude makes no bones about doing poo poo that would have people making GBS threads their pants now.
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Jan 8, 2014 20:44
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Is that the book where they tie civilians to the sides of their vehicles and drop them off at the next town over as a means of deterring attacks while travelling between villages?
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Jan 8, 2014 21:34
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The Curtis Lemay book is just retardedly well written. It covers an era, and it does it so well you don't even really realize just how much time is actually going by in the book because it captures that frantic existential threat feeling of the early cold war perfectly.
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Jan 8, 2014 21:39
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Mustang posted:Is that the book where they tie civilians to the sides of their vehicles and drop them off at the next town over as a means of deterring attacks while travelling between villages? Yeah. None of that poo poo would fly, but lord knows all kinds of SNCO's and officers furiously wanked over the book. Usually with "Read this, this is how we should have fought Vietnam." like they were completely clueless they were praising a Nazi SS officer.
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Jan 8, 2014 22:26
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50 Foot Ant posted:Yeah. None of that poo poo would fly, but lord knows all kinds of SNCO's and officers furiously wanked over the book. Usually with "Read this, this is how we should have fought Vietnam." like they were completely clueless they were praising a Nazi SS officer. I can't see how that book can be anything but fiction. Especially that chapter where they have a debate with that Viet Minh commisar over a village!
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Jan 8, 2014 23:47
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Well, the "SS in the Foreign Legion" thing was massively overstated as well.
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Jan 9, 2014 02:21
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CISNAZI WEEDHITLER posted:You all need this book: 15 Minutes: General Curtis LeMay and the Countdown to Nuclear Annihilation. I'm getting this, thanks! Just finished Four Ball, One Tracer: Commanding Executive Outcomes in Angola and Sierra Leone by Roelf van Heerden. Really nice if you want to know more about ex-SADF soldiers doing contract work in Africa, up to and including a company-sized combined arms push towards a strategically located Angolan town against UNITA insurgents - South Africa's former allies in the Bush War. He's not overly analytic about the nature of fighting for money, but there's lots of good stuff about how to handle the realities of fighting in Africa. Especially when they to Sierra Leone in the second part of the book and silly things start to happen.
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Jan 9, 2014 10:55
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CISNAZI WEEDHITLER posted:You all need this book: 15 Minutes: General Curtis LeMay and the Countdown to Nuclear Annihilation. I keep meaning to get it, but Nuclear War books tend to be either popular poo poo that you've read a ton of times (Dead Hand) or it is super spergy of the highest order...and thus good. Ashton Carter's Managing Nuclear Operations for example actually goes through an entire planning of a nuclear attack and how weapons are allocated, how launched, when they detonate, damage planning, all using sub launches against some Naval building in the DC area. It is really a great Cold War junkie book. Just finished Ian Kershaw's The End: The Defiance and Destruction of Hitler's Germany, 1944-1945. It does a really good job of explaining why Nazi Germany keep fighting to the bitter end and how the Nazi state functioned as the collapsed. You can see how the Bomb Plot allowed Himmler to make inroads into the Wehrmacht were the party (and himself) had previously been unable to do so. Kershaw really has it in (rightly) for Karl Doenitz by demolishing the crap out of the non political Grand Admiral when it was actually one of the most fanatical Nazi's there were. Just a really good book, well researched, and still easy to read.
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Jan 9, 2014 19:35
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gfanikf posted:Just finished Ian Kershaw's The End: The Defiance and Destruction of Hitler's Germany, 1944-1945. It does a really good job of explaining why Nazi Germany keep fighting to the bitter end and how the Nazi state functioned as the collapsed. You can see how the Bomb Plot allowed Himmler to make inroads into the Wehrmacht were the party (and himself) had previously been unable to do so. Kershaw really has it in (rightly) for Karl Doenitz by demolishing the crap out of the non political Grand Admiral when it was actually one of the most fanatical Nazi's there were. Just a really good book, well researched, and still easy to read. Keep meaning to pick this up, but now I'll have to get it ASAP to see how exactly Kershaw goes after Doenitz. The whole "He wasn't really a hardcore Nazi!" argument is really old so it's nice to see good historians beat the poo poo out of that argument at every chance. I'm currently reading Hitler's Empire:How the Nazis Ruled Europe, which is pretty good. Starts out a little slow but picks up the pace after the 1st chapter and it really hits home about how poorly managed the occupied territories were as well as how lucky Europe was that Hitler and co. had a really hard time understanding what made British/French imperialism successful compared to their attempts in Eastern Europe. CISNAZI WEEDHITLER posted:You all need this book: 15 Minutes: General Curtis LeMay and the Countdown to Nuclear Annihilation.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:07
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The thing I've heard about Kershaw's work is that he has been coasting on his 'working towards the Führer' theory for a long time now. Not that it's much of a problem, Hubris and Nemesis are fantastic, and there's only so much new stuff you can do in Nazi historiography, but I've been holding off on his newer titles since getting those Hitler biographies as a present in 2003 (thanks mom & dad!).
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Jan 10, 2014 11:06
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