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Space Racist
Mar 27, 2008

~savior of yoomanity~



Thread discussion cycle, in a handy image!

*Disclaimer: I don't personally own a Wii U, the last Nintendo systems I did own were GBA and Gamecube, and am generally uninvested in Nintendo's ecosystem. I just happen to eat this "is Nintendo doomed?" poo poo up for some reason, and the general Wii U thread had grown weary of that discussion, so I wanted to have a dedicated place to mull Nintendo's fortunes.

Is the Wii U Nintendo's Dreamcast?
To be fair, Nintendo is in a much better position than Sega was in 1999, so even if the Wii U flops worse than Microsoft's Kin, they're unlikely to go publisher-only. That said, things aren't exactly going well for Nintendo at present.
Okay everyone, quit talking about the Dreamcast.

Is the Wii U the next Virtual Boy?

As reported by The Verge, Nintendo recently announced its second consecutive annual operating loss, largely due to Wii U sales missing their mark by over half a million units (which themselves had already been revised downward from original estimates). Despite a strong initial launch, post-holiday monthly sales have continued to stagnate, most recently with just 55,000 units sold in April in the US, being significantly outsold by the 8-year-old Xbox 360 and 7-year-old PS3, and embarrassingly being outsold by the original Wii (only the poor PS Vita sold less than the Wii U).

What's gone wrong?
Obviously, things haven't gone as well as Nintendo intended. Where have the missteps happened?

Marketing: Perhaps confusingly, since the original 'Wii Would Like To Play' campaign was so successful, Nintendo's marketing has badly stumbled with communicating the newness and desirability of the Wii U to consumers. By Nintendo's own admission, many consumers are confused and think that the Wii U is just a peripheral for the old system. While the console's name doesn't help the situation (who signed off on the name 'Wii U', anyway, instead of, I don't know, Wii 2 or anything other than 'U'?), its advertisements haven't done much to clarify.

Case in point, The North American launch ad shows a lot of people playing with original Wiimotes and a Gamepad, barely shows the actual console (which, helpfully, looks highly similar to the orignal Wii), and the games it does show look like games that are already on the original Wii (New Super Mario Bros U, fun though it may be, doesn't exactly scream 'next generation experience'). What is the Wii U? Is it a tablet? A new handheld game system? Some new peripheral for the Wii? When an ad fails to accurately communicate the 'what' of a new product, let alone the 'why', you have a problem.


When consumers see images like this, is it any wonder they're confused?

Software: Marketing wouldn't be such an issue if the system had great games that drove consumer awareness, but sadly for Nintendo that hasn't been the case either. Despite a pretty decent launch lineup, offerings since have been coming at an abysmally slow pace, to the point that Super Mario World's virtual console release makes headlines. Major first party releases, long the driver for Nintendo systems, have been delayed until Fall 2013 at earliest, and third party support is increasingly drying up - EA announced recently that Madden is going to skip the Wii U, and that Frostbite 3 - the engine powering EA's next-gen franchise releases such as Dragon Age, Mass Effect and Battlefield, won't support Wii U. Not exactly a show of confidence for Nintendo's fledgling system.

Can the situation be salvaged?
Despite myriad problems, it would be advised to not count Nintendo out just yet. If all of the above sounds familiar to you, it's because they faced a similar situation two years ago with the fumbled launch of the 3DS, a system that has since turned around to a large degree of popularity and with a steady flow of quality software. That said, they're in a significantly worse financial situation than two years ago, so the stakes are a bit higher for Nintendo at present. Can Nintendo stop competing with themselves and line up competent marketing with a steady flow of quality software? Please discuss below any ideas, complaints, or general doomsday predictions for the big N.

Space Racist fucked around with this message at Apr 22, 2014 around 07:07

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Liquid Penguins
Feb 18, 2006

sproink~


I'm still mad Nintendo is focusing on experiences that are impossible for me to enjoy due to a vision disability. I can't use the 3d on my 3ds and switching between a nearby screen and a distant one is not something I can comfortably do. I won't buy a wii u till it has quality games that don't use the second screen, which basically means the system isn't for me despite my Nintendo fanboy nature.

There really isn't a point to dwelling on nintendo's mistakes, most of them are obvious and beyond consumer control (ad representation/software quality).

Quest For Glory II
Dec 17, 2003



That's an excellent write-up. I'd be curious to hear from people who don't own a Wii U and aren't interested in one, and why. And whether they'd ever be interested.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006
Animated gif missing

Nintendo didn't foresee that developing modern HD games was all that more difficult than games they'd been making since 2001, and started on the WiiU seven years behind the competition. Everything has been delayed because they lack adequate resources and knowledge to make games up to modern standards. They're a toy company now competing against entertainment companies.

I'm sure they'll figure it out though, and this console may not even have Gamecube levels of success(by success I mean it made money, kept the brand visible and had high quality games), but it will ensure they're ready next time, and this will not be a Virtual Boy.

I don't know how much longer investors will put up with this inept management in a publicly traded company however. I don't know if Iwata can weather this storm and I really don't know if he should.

Supercar Gautier
Jun 10, 2006



I think they're in a weird position marketing-wise, in that brand penetration has been so weak that they could reboot with a totally different campaign and none of the audience they missed the first time around would notice that this bright new thing had already launched months ago. They desperately need to kick off a new blitz ASAP, and hopefully they've got it in the works and are just waiting on the right release to centre it around.

I remember when Sony pulled that emergency shift from super-melodramatic faux-artsy PS3 ads to the self-deprecating and comedic Kevin Butler campaign. It did a lot to rehabilitate the PS3's image as overblown and hubristic. Nintendo needs to figure out a similar kind of shift in their marketing direction (not necessarily the same shift, just a similarly drastic one).

Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at May 16, 2013 around 18:45

RentCavalier
Jul 10, 2008

by T. Finninho


I would really like to get a Wii U, since I skipped the Wii, but I don't want to run the risk of getting one and having it die out in two years, which is a danger the Vita is running right now. I'd hoped to get a Wii U for the summer, since the summer has few good releases traditionally, but there's not enough good games to really pull me away from my PS3.

I know there's some good titles coming down the pipeline, but they're mostly first-person titles or ports, and the original content for the console has been limited to...what, ZombiU and Lego City? And Lego City looks like poo poo. So, that's why I don't own one yet.

Also, the loving system costs more than the 39 inch 1080p HDTV I'd bought to play it on anyway. Give me a decent bundle pack, $50-$100 price cut, and show me some Capcom, Sega and Namco support, and maybe we'll have something sizzling. I love Nintendo, but the Wii U just doesn't have enough to justify its fat price, or if it does, it has not been communicated to me much. Hell, the Wii U barely gets advertising anymore, and I almost exclusively watch youtube channels that are flush with game ads.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



We get a lot of vague statements (from myself also I'm not innocent) about Nintendo's financial state. I feel like it may be worse than we think just because the Wii U was released at all. Anyone who stuck with Nintendo through the years can tell that the Wii U as it stands now is half-baked, very clearly rushed out the door and held together with tape compared to their previous systems. Seeing it compared to the Dreamcast in the thread title reminds me of how Sega, due to their own financial situation, basically had to get the Dreamcast out sooner than they had wanted to. Even with consistently incredible games coming out for it regularly, and out of the box online play Sega couldn't keep it afloat. Major (then) publishers like Konami dropped all support for it the day the PS2's launch date was announced.


The problem here though is that unlike Sega, Nintendo can't possibly be making any money off this thing until they actually get their first party stuff out. The Dreamcast held Sega up for a bit because they dropped great games on it non-stop and had a clearly large library ready to go. After the Gamecube, post 2008 Wii and 3DS, obviously Nintendo KNOWS it would be silly to drop a console onto the market without some really strong first party games coming out regularly. The Wii U has been around for less than a year and it's already exhibiting limitations the only solution to which is "release a new system," just like the Wii. This is such a poor stopgap they most likely SHOULD have made a tablet add-on for the Wii instead.


Is it possible they had planned to do this and got cold feet when the HD releases of the UDraw tanked hard? It would explain the confused E3 debut of the Wii U as well as the marketing being vague and making so many people think it's just an add-on.

Did they really lose so much talent and knowledge on making "AAA" games or whatever between the Gamecube and the Wii? I mean even as the guys that just published stuff like Rogue Leader they should know how to make a game look good. Are they having trouble attracting new talent? What happened with this that they have no bench to draw from?

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at May 16, 2013 around 18:40

Harry
Jun 13, 2003


Neo Rasa posted:

We get a lot of vague statements (from myself also I'm not innocent) about Nintendo's financial state.
Are you trying to say the financials they're filing with governing bodies are a lie?

Webbeh
Dec 13, 2003

IF THIS IS A 'LOST' THREAD I'M PROBABLY WHINING ABOUT
STABBEY THE MEANY


Quest For Glory II posted:

That's an excellent write-up. I'd be curious to hear from people who don't own a Wii U and aren't interested in one, and why. And whether they'd ever be interested.

I've become quite tired of Nintendo's half-rear end implementations of online social gaming. I was an early adopter of the Nintendo Wii, only to find it collecting dust after the allure of Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and Animal Crossing: City Folk wore off. From the awful (Super Smash Brothers) to the acceptable (Mario Kart Wii), I was watching online gaming become stale and repetitive, whereas the 360 was able to deliver an online gaming experience that didn't leave me frustrated with the UI and limitations.

I've steered clear from purchasing a Wii U because nothing so far has steered me to purchase a Wii U. NSMBU was beautiful, yes, but the allure quickly wore off (although I do like the premise of large-scale DLC). Beyond that, there's nothing that has me excited about the future of the Wii U. I think a lot of that has to do with not really seeing a whole lot of upcoming games from Nintendo. I want to see what the new Super Mario looks like, how the new Mario Kart plays, and hope to God there's a new Animal Crossing. There's no hype.

I imagine E3 will hype me up for the Wii U, but I will never understand why it took a year to do so. Discussions about Nintendo rushing Wii U out the gate don't seem to far-fetched, given the WIP-feeling I get from the menu load times, development lull, and limited feature set (VC just getting off the ground).

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Harry posted:

Are you trying to say the financials they're filing with governing bodies are a lie?

Not at all, just many people including myself will make sweeping statements like "Nintendo is doing okay right now" or whatever because we're just looking at "3DS do great, Wii U do bad" and making a generalization about how much money they have to spare.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006
Animated gif missing

Harry posted:

Are you trying to say the financials they're filing with governing bodies are a lie?

Nintendo probably cooks the books a little like any company, but all in strictly legal ways, and there's no way they could cook the books that much.

They aren't in danger of going out of business because they have massive cash on hand two years of losses barely put a dent in. But they are a publicly traded company and can always be in danger of investor wrath, potential buyouts, and other dangers. Their cash on hand does nothing for their stockholders, who have to be getting a little pissed off watching their stock tank.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003


Neo Rasa posted:

Not at all, just many people including myself will make sweeping statements like "Nintendo is doing okay right now" or whatever because we're just looking at "3DS do great, Wii U do bad" and making a generalization about how much money they have to spare.

I'm still not getting your point since these aren't just completely unknown.

I have a Wii U, and it was definitely rushed. With the next patch that should fix usability, and a couple of good games I can see it reviving. I'm not a huge gamer though, and couldn't even begin to care about social gaming.

tystatic
Jul 24, 2005
Yip Yip

The system is this current state is pretty sad to see due to the fact that it DOES look like a really cool device with a lot of nifty features. If they just had a semi-playable servers and a competitive(but still fun to casuals) Smash Bros. game, I would buy it in a heartbeat along with many others. Top management just seems really out of touch with..well, everything.

Also, out of all the Zelda games, why remake Wind Waker? It's art direction and style will still look good another ten years from now. Imagine a 3D remake of Link's Awakening or poo poo, the oracle games.

Ineffiable
Feb 16, 2008

BUDDHA'S A BRO
296 Fuckups and Counting!


I don't have a Wii U and I'm barely interested in one because while I bought and enjoyed me Wii, I did so 4 years after it had already been out and my Wii sits and gathers dust between big releases.

I could have played and beat Xenoblade Chronicles if it was on any other system. Instead, I have a 14 hour save and haven't touched it for over a year.

So, I don't want to drop the cash until I can score a used one for $100, and play 5 years of big releases in one year. Then box it up.

Bobby Cox
Nov 3, 2006


Ahaha good lord, I was reading the OP and thinking "Wait I thought the system wasn't out yet?" Granted I don't keep too many tabs on the video game industry (I am content with just one system) but when an average, casual video gamer who watches a lot of TV and reads magazines and the internet doesn't know one of the supposedly big 3 consoles is out you know marketing done hosed up. I definitely thought it was supposed to be released closer to the new Xbox and Playstation.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Harry posted:

I'm still not getting your point since these aren't just completely unknown.

I have a Wii U, and it was definitely rushed. With the next patch that should fix usability, and a couple of good games I can see it reviving. I'm not a huge gamer though, and couldn't even begin to care about social gaming.

It's probably because you've laser focused yourself on this one sentence instead of my entire post. My point is that if they could afford to wait a few months and not release a rushed system with no games of their own to put on it they probably should have. They either couldn't due to anxious shareholders or because they're incompetent and didn't learn anything from their past decades in the business and other company's failures. Either their shareholders have no financial confidence in them or they're stupid.

Space Racist
Mar 27, 2008

~savior of yoomanity~


Supercar Gautier posted:

I think they're in a weird position marketing-wise, in that brand penetration has been so weak that they could reboot with a totally different campaign and none of the audience they missed the first time around would notice that this bright new thing had already launched months ago. They desperately need to kick off a new blitz ASAP, and hopefully they've got it in the works and are just waiting on the right release to centre it around.

I remember when Sony pulled that emergency shift from super-melodramatic faux-artsy PS3 ads to the self-deprecating and comedic Kevin Butler campaign. It did a lot to rehabilitate the PS3's image as overblown and hubristic. Nintendo needs to figure out a similar kind of shift in their marketing direction (not necessarily the same shift, just a similarly drastic one).

I think this is mostly spot on. Everyone knows they have to do some sort of marketing reboot, but I think the reason we haven't seen it yet is they're not comfortable making such a push when there isn't enough software to back it up. Why drive consumers to your system when there's a months-long drought of software? Then you risk negative word-of-mouth becoming even worse than it is at present. Of course, that's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem when it comes to third party support, since how are you going to convince companies to develop great software for a system that has a tiny userbase?

My big question is, with the pending launch of PS4 and Xbox-whatever, can anything they do really generate enough momentum? Even with a new marketing push and decent releases, I don't see how they can salvage this holiday season without a significant price cut.

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

'nuff said.



I have no interest in buying a wii u because there are like 3 games on the system I would want to play and one is mh3u which I already have on 3ds just without online multiplayer.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003


Neo Rasa posted:

It's probably because you've laser focused yourself on this one sentence instead of my entire post. My point is that if they could afford to wait a few months and not release a rushed system with no games of their own to put on it they probably should have. They either couldn't due to anxious shareholders or because they're incompetent and didn't learn anything from their past decades in the business and other company's failures. Either their shareholders have no financial confidence in them or they're stupid.

I lasered on your first two sentences, which were the crux of your theory that maybe Nintendo is doing poorly as if it's some mystery.

What are the prices looking like for the PS4 and Xbox? Is online only play still being contemplated by microsoft?

Ineffiable
Feb 16, 2008

BUDDHA'S A BRO
296 Fuckups and Counting!


You make a good point. The PS3 could recover because nothing big was going to shadow it. The 3DS could recover, because it was a year before the Vita and the Vita didn't have that impressive of a launch library to overshadow the 3DS.

But the PS4/Durango will come out soon, and I'm not trying to hyperbole, I think their launch window (say.. first 3 months?) libraries might be better than the Wii-U's launch YEAR library.

The Wii-U probably needs a marketing push and a price cut so people put down $200 for it instead of the $400-500 (just a reasonable estimate) for the other next gen consoles.


If xbox comes out and has some sort of cellphone plan where you can get the new xbox for $200 + 2 years of xbox live at $15-20 a month, that is going to hurt the Wii-U. (And the PS4, but they can actually fight back with PS+)

Temascos
Sep 3, 2011



The idea that Nintendo were unprepared for HD development is baffling to say the least, as Nintendo CLEARLY had to have known what it was like. I mean, even if they started on HD development three years ago they could still look at what the other platforms had gone through in regards to difficulties, budgeting, release schedules, etc and worked off that.

They wouldn't even have to do ultra-massive budget projects, just try some risky formula for Nintendo (Say a Dark Souls type game for instance), target a small audience and experiment. Nobody truly has any idea what IPs will take off and become ultra-big successes and what will fall behind, even if it ticks all the points. I hope this doesn't sound like a "NINTENDO DOESN'T MAKE NEW STUFF" argument, as they truly have tried it before but there's only one way to find out if an idea works.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006
Animated gif missing

They could be saved if Sony and Microsoft are similarly incompetent. 3DS looked doomed for instance and Vita looked awesome, and would have the same price, when suddenly Sony was forced to delay it, more annoyances of the system were made clear, and Nintendo had time to drop their price, release a better model, and get games out.

Something they theoretically could do with WiiU. A better model where they have bigger internal storage, more games digitally preinstalled to sweeten the pot, etc.

The problem is we can't really expect delay from Sony this time, and games should be very easy to make for the new systems because of their shared architecture with PCs. We've seen next to no games for either though, and until releases might be plagued by just looking like current gen games with settings rebooted up to max.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Space Racist posted:

My big question is, with the pending launch of PS4 and Xbox-whatever, can anything they do really generate enough momentum? Even with a new marketing push and decent releases, I don't see how they can salvage this holiday season without a significant price cut.

I feel like the only thing they can really do is eat it, drop the price to $250 and have it include ZombiU/Pikmin/whatever download codes. Hell they should do a couple of different packages that are the same hardware but with different games like Sony does every holiday. Sony isn't going to launch $599 US dollars again so the price advantage won't be huge like it was with the Wii/PS3 launching within a week of each other, so they need every system they sell to come with a real game.

BowieFett
Oct 21, 2008



I plan on getting one whenever it gets a 3D Mario platformer, Mario Kart, or a Legend of Zelda. Hopefully the price will drop by then too.

Judge Ito Boxing
Oct 29, 2011

There's a lot of value in the public being able to see how the system works.

greatn posted:

Nintendo didn't foresee that developing modern HD games was all that more difficult than games they'd been making since 2001, and started on the WiiU seven years behind the competition. Everything has been delayed because they lack adequate resources and knowledge to make games up to modern standards. They're a toy company now competing against entertainment companies.

Citing "incompetence" here is just stupid. It's not that they're unable to deliver a device on par with the PS4/Durango, it's that they're unwilling. The Wii U's all about subsidized parts and making something as cheap as possible with the veneer of a forward-looking device with high potential, just like the original Wii with its barely-upgraded Gamecube guts and the motion-sensing remote. The 3DS could have had a state-of-the-art Tegra chip if not for a last second switch to a cheaper Asian alternative. All companies are about profit, but Nintendo has unashamedly been focused on spending as little money as possible to maintain its position for the last decade.

And since that is the case, what I've been unable to grasp is why they haven't exited the console hardware business entirely and released their games on every other device under the sun. The initial stock hit would be damning for sure, but they'd certainly stand to earn a mint from the glee of every PS4/Durango owner having access to the latest Zelda, or unleashing the Virtual Console on smartphones and tablets. Being able to play a Sonic game on the Gamecube back in 2001 was just a novelty, but you have to imagine the internet would flip its collective poo poo (for the better) at the thought of Nintendo games being legally available on iOS.

ImPureAwesome
Sep 6, 2007

the king of the beach


Quest For Glory II posted:

That's an excellent write-up. I'd be curious to hear from people who don't own a Wii U and aren't interested in one, and why. And whether they'd ever be interested.

This would be me. I have no interest in a WiiU because, unlike last console cycle, my PC is way more than capable now of doing anything the WiiU or any of the new consoles really could do and I have a billion games in my Steam backlog to work though. There simply isn't enough time in the day for a whole other system.

Quest For Glory II
Dec 17, 2003



Space Racist posted:

I think this is mostly spot on. Everyone knows they have to do some sort of marketing reboot, but I think the reason we haven't seen it yet is they're not comfortable making such a push when there isn't enough software to back it up. Why drive consumers to your system when there's a months-long drought of software?
Because Nintendo did it with the original Wii and they sold a shitload of them. It's not like the Wii had a gargantuan library to begin with either. You worry about getting the system in people's homes first. If you wait to advertise until you have a major holiday game release, people might have already decided to invest their money in a different console. Or they'll have spent long enough watching the system from the sideline to convince themselves they don't need it.

Judge Ito Boxing posted:

Citing "incompetence" here is just stupid.
How is it not incompetence when you have to pull a significant amount of staff off of other game projects in order to finish Nintendo Land by launch, which causes a domino chain of delaying everything else down the pipeline, such as delaying Pikmin 3 from November all the way to August? And Nintendo Land is not exactly a Rembrandt.

Quest For Glory II fucked around with this message at May 16, 2013 around 19:28

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who say they have found it.


One of the other problems with the WiiU is that the thing just isn't that powerful. Just like the Wii, it is a generation behind. They either need to step up to the modern or get out of console development. At launch, the console ran like poo poo and most of the launch games (ports) ran like poo poo as well.

It didn't help that half of the games out for this system are ports of games from a year ago.

Furthermore, Nintendo once again proves that they can make some of the most retarded decisions in the video game industry.

When you create your Nintendo gamertag or whatever they call it, it is locked to the system you created it on. No creating a gamertag and logging into it on your friend's WiiU. It is locked to yours.

Saves are locked to your WiiU. No transferring.

Are you loving kidding me? These are basic things that Sony and Microsoft had figured out eight years ago.

Xavier434
Dec 4, 2002



Space Racist posted:

I think this is mostly spot on. Everyone knows they have to do some sort of marketing reboot, but I think the reason we haven't seen it yet is they're not comfortable making such a push when there isn't enough software to back it up. Why drive consumers to your system when there's a months-long drought of software? Then you risk negative word-of-mouth becoming even worse than it is at present. Of course, that's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem when it comes to third party support, since how are you going to convince companies to develop great software for a system that has a tiny userbase?

The answer is first party games and forking over cash for 3rd party exclusives. Some of which is already in the works.

Billa
Jul 12, 2005



Mordiceius posted:

One of the other problems with the WiiU is that the thing just isn't that powerful. Just like the Wii, it is a generation behind. They either need to step up to the modern or get out of console development. At launch, the console ran like poo poo and most of the launch games (ports) ran like poo poo as well.

It didn't help that half of the games out for this system are ports of games from a year ago.

Furthermore, Nintendo once again proves that they can make some of the most retarded decisions in the video game industry.

When you create your Nintendo gamertag or whatever they call it, it is locked to the system you created it on. No creating a gamertag and logging into it on your friend's WiiU. It is locked to yours.

Saves are locked to your WiiU. No transferring.

Are you loving kidding me? These are basic things that Sony and Microsoft had figured out eight years ago.

Not long ago the 'gamertag' was a 93489384 number string which was retarded to share among friends.

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

You don't understand my problems! I can't even promote till the end of the game!

BowieFett posted:

I plan on getting one whenever it gets a 3D Mario platformer, Mario Kart, or a Legend of Zelda. Hopefully the price will drop by then too.

So by the end of the year? Because all three will be available by then (Well, not a new Zelda, but there will be a Zelda).

Really, I think a lot of the doom and gloom right now is kinda silly. Yes, it sold horribly for the last few months, no one's disputing that. We also haven't had any new games since the launch aside from Monster Hunter, Lego City, Most Wanted U, and Injustice. We know that Nintendo is going to have Mario, Mario Kart, Wind Waker HD, Pikmin 3, and a whole host of other games at E3 this year, and they'd be crazy not to have a lot of them out this year. Yes, the console should have launched with Miiverse, Virtual Console, etc. all baked in and ready to go, but Nintendo is fixing them, if not quite as fast as everyone would like.

If, come this time next year things still haven't turned around, then yes it's time to panic. But from the way people talk, they're waiting on games to show up, and Nintendo looks to have a pretty packed Q3-Q4.

Cultisto
Oct 18, 2010

When Gozer the Gozarian roams the earth, you have my permission to die.


ImPureAwesome posted:

This would be me. I have no interest in a WiiU because, unlike last console cycle, my PC is way more than capable now of doing anything the WiiU or any of the new consoles really could do and I have a billion games in my Steam backlog to work though. There simply isn't enough time in the day for a whole other system.

This is part of the problem for me, I actually enjoy my WiiU when I get a chance to play it but I have mainly been using it for the 30 cent VC games and a few cheap Wii titles that I've picked up since I skipped that console. If I look at the limited selection available on the eShop, I can't justify buying Sonic Racing for the $30-40 it sells for when I know I can get it on Steam and play the same experience for much cheaper (Hey, it's on sale on Amazon.com this very second for $7.50). Runner 2 might be fun on the Wii, but I know whenever the next big sale on Steam appears I'll be able to grab it for $5 or maybe less. While the same reasoning could be said for any other console, the drought of actual titles to play on the console just make buying the same games on PC for a fraction of the cost that much more attractive for me.

I'd like to say that the Wii U could benefit from an Ambassador Program like they did for the 3DS, but they'd have the same issue in that there's just not that many games for them to offer unless they give some nebulous promise of "Buy a Wii U now, and when we actually have 20-25 VC titles, we'll give them out to everyone for free, eventually."

El Generico
Feb 3, 2009

Glory by Honour, Justice by
BRAINBUSTAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!


I can't remember a single console that was amazing out of the box except for the Wii and that was just on the back of Wii Sports and the novelty of the concept. The Wii U will get better with time, and right now, in terms of having good games to play, the Wii U isn't actually doing all that bad in my eyes, with NSMB:U, Monster Hunter, ZombiU, and NintendoLand. I know for a long time the PS3 didn't have four games I really wanted to play on it. It's a bit like the DS launch, nobody quite "gets" the Wii U yet, but they will in time.

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007


Temascos posted:

They wouldn't even have to do ultra-massive budget projects, just try some risky formula for Nintendo (Say a Dark Souls type game for instance), target a small audience and experiment. Nobody truly has any idea what IPs will take off and become ultra-big successes and what will fall behind, even if it ticks all the points. I hope this doesn't sound like a "NINTENDO DOESN'T MAKE NEW STUFF" argument, as they truly have tried it before but there's only one way to find out if an idea works.
They make these kinds of games all the time, problem is they're all on the 3DS. IntSys has spent the last couple years making quirky puzzles games that ended up being massive hits, the eshop is full of clever little things like Sakura Samurai and Rolling Western, and Kid Icarus Uprising is probably one of the greatest games of all time. There is just a ton of console-quality 3DS stuff that really probably should have been Wii U games if Nintendo wanted the thing to succeed. Hell even in their core franchises, the 3DS gets the absolutely amazing Super Mario 3D Land and then they just poo poo out yet another derivative New Super Mario on the Wii U.

Forget Sony and Microsoft, the 3DS is the Wii U's biggest competitor.

Judge Ito Boxing
Oct 29, 2011

There's a lot of value in the public being able to see how the system works.

Quest For Glory II posted:

How is it not incompetence when you have to pull a significant amount of staff off of other game projects in order to finish Nintendo Land by launch, which causes a domino chain of delaying everything else down the pipeline, such as delaying Pikmin 3 from November all the way to August? And Nintendo Land is not exactly a Rembrandt.

I meant with regards to the hardware side of things. "Incompetence" in that case meaning the ability willingness to throw larger wads of cash at AMD or whoever.

In addition to Mordiceius's list, the reason Sony and Microsoft can do those things well is because they're willing to spend the money to make it work.

E: V V V So we're clear, then

Judge Ito Boxing fucked around with this message at May 16, 2013 around 19:40

greatn
Nov 15, 2006
Animated gif missing

Judge Ito Boxing posted:

Citing "incompetence" here is just stupid. It's not that they're unable to deliver a device on par with the PS4/Durango, it's that they're unwilling. The Wii U's all about subsidized parts and making something as cheap as possible with the veneer of a forward-looking device with high potential, just like the original Wii with its barely-upgraded Gamecube guts and the motion-sensing remote. The 3DS could have had a state-of-the-art Tegra chip if not for a last second switch to a cheaper Asian alternative. All companies are about profit, but Nintendo has unashamedly been focused on spending as little money as possible to maintain its position for the last decade.

And since that is the case, what I've been unable to grasp is why they haven't exited the console hardware business entirely and released their games on every other device under the sun. The initial stock hit would be damning for sure, but they'd certainly stand to earn a mint from the glee of every PS4/Durango owner having access to the latest Zelda, or unleashing the Virtual Console on smartphones and tablets. Being able to play a Sonic game on the Gamecube back in 2001 was just a novelty, but you have to imagine the internet would flip its collective poo poo (for the better) at the thought of Nintendo games being legally available on iOS.

I'm talking about software development, and their slow releases and delays have pretty much been confirmed by Nintendo themselves as incompetence, them not knowing how many resources HD games would take.

On the hardware side, everything you said is also true.

Acquire Currency!
Jan 15, 2011

~All sales are final, all posts are PLATINUM.~


Serious question, it's going to sound like I'm just needlessly making GBS threads on the Wii U but; if sells remain poor for it will there be a chance that Bayonetta 2 won't remain a Wii U exclusive? I was slightly disappointed when I found that out.

Chic Trombone
Jul 25, 2010

The most posh trombone around~


Acquire Currency! posted:

Serious question, it's going to sound like I'm just needlessly making GBS threads on the Wii U but; if sells remain poor for it will there be a chance that Bayonetta 2 won't remain a Wii U exclusive? I was slightly disappointed when I found that out.

Considering it's been confirmed that Nintendo are at least partially bankrolling the actual creation of the game? Incredibly unlikely to say the least.

Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!



I just don't see what point the Wii U has in the current market.

It's a 7.5 generation console coming out at a time when consumers have already been fully saturated in what the 7th generation has to offer and is starting to dry up. It will be lucky to get the third party PS3/360 ports (I say lucky because of EA already feeling tentative in their support) that still exist within the next 2 years or so before they are eventually phased out. It will once again be a Nintendo console driven by it's first party software. To me that would make it the third console in a row, Gamecube/Wii/WiiU with substandard third party support.

I think Nintendo would've been better set to just continue riding the Wii out and coming out with something that could essentially stand up with the PS4/new Xbox. Although, I don't have much faith in the market strength of 8th generation of consoles since it seems like every new product launch: 3DS/Vita/WiiU has been met with substandard sales. The 3DS didn't start to do better until a price drop and hardware revision and it's likely the Vita won't bounce back until a price drop with that as well.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

You are all DOOMED

That would require knowing what exactly Platinum Games and Nintendo have going, legal-mumbo jumbo wise. That said I'm pretty sure Nintendo are the ones backing Bayonetta 2, financially, so they probably have a legal lock on it being for Wii U.

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