|
Hobgoblin2099 posted:That hat is stupid and made me hate him the first time I saw him. The medicine blackmail was just icing on the cake. Well technically, we betray people exactly 50% of the time, so we're not much better. 
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 16:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 23:29 |
|
|
We can't forget that the dead woman was found in Luna's AB room. She didn't move the container herself, but that's still suspicious. The dead woman was killed with a Myrmidon-branded knife. She's had some medical training, but isn't a medical doctor. Maybe she's a geneticist? Say, one working for an evil organization? (How much medical training do they get? Probably not a lot.) I doubt that the Myrmidons, "a bunch of thugs who are trying to destroy or dismantle most of human civilization" are unconnected with Radical-6, a never-heard-of-before virus that has allegedly wiped out 60% of the planet by making people commit suicide.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 16:40
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:We can't forget that the dead woman was found in Luna's AB room. She didn't move the container herself, but that's still suspicious. The dead woman was killed with a Myrmidon-branded knife. Clover did confront Luna about something in our first route after presumably discovering the relocated room trick, perhaps it was specifically about whether she worked for the Myrmidons?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 16:50
|
|
|
But if she was actually trying to hide being an evil whatchyamacallit why not just go the simpler route and just say "yes" to being a doctor? If you're trying to be covert and someone hands you a plausible cover story, you'd latch on right away instead of saying "no, not really". I get more of the vibe of a technicality rather than a direct lie - sort of the same way a web designer would say "not quite" to being a programmer due to technicalities, but not really explain it farther since the difference isn't important or significant enough to most people. I think I side with the geneticist argument - maybe she was a researcher (or cloning technician or who knows what specific branch of med stuff) working with some group that the Myrms wanted to kidnap, or maybe she was working with them in the first place and was captured by Zero. Or, hell, maybe Zero is the Myrm this time or is some outside force that took over their cloning base to stop Brother/Left/etc from creating an army, which could explain the bombs? Lots of possibilities open up with the introduction of the new third party
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 17:37
|
|
|
Evidently, Alice's sob story is not resonating; 27% of 291 respondents want to betray Alice even earlier. The next most popular option - 10 points behind - was betraying Luna. Don't worry, Phi. We're not making that mistake again. Good people die. 999 OST: [Imaginary] Listen in: [English/Japanese] I guess I should say thanks. So... uh... thanks. Aw, c'mon. You don't need to do that. I just made the obvious choice. Obvious...? Well, I'm sure Alice chose "betray". That meant we pretty much had to choose "betray", right? ... ... I guess you could say I just know. Are you making fun of me? Maybe... We're about to announce the results! Let's go. We'll find out if you made the right choice. All right. [Music fades out] Everybunny directs their attention to the monitor...  Our first successful betrayal!
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 17:40
|
|
|
OH COME ON, VLR. That is just cheating. She literally allies in every first round except the one where you ally with her. What. Just. What?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 17:43
|
|
|
Oh man,  the reactions to this are going to be beautiful
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 17:46
|
|
|
... What the hell? Didn't Alice Betray us when we did this scenario before?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 17:48
|
|
|
I... Yeah... To avoid the elephant in the room completely, I did miss Zero Jr - been way too long even though at this point it feels more like a cameo than anything
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 17:48
|
|
|
Haha I love this game. First time I got to this I ended up doing a double take and grabbing at my head in disbelief. DaveWoo posted:... What the hell? Didn't Alice Betray us when we did this scenario before? Yep!
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 17:48
|
|
|
Oh come the hell on 
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 17:54
|
|
|
Schrodinger's treacherous bitch.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 17:54
|
|
|
Now I'm not even mad about the choice I wanted losing. Y'all certainly got your wish, you betrayed the gently caress out of her.  Vil posted:Schrodinger's treacherous bitch. Stop getting so upset about a videogame character, holy poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 17:55
|
|
|
Curse you Fedule, and your obsession with cliffhangers!
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 17:59
|
|
|
Welp. Unless they pull a silly morphogenetic field twist where your decisions in the AB game, despite all logic, are actually affecting those of your opponents, this game just turned real dumb.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:01
|
|
|
HMS Boromir posted:Welp. You'll note that Sigma said "he just knew" that Alice would pick Betray. Given the plot-lock system where he plucks knowledge from other routes out of thin air... This is clearly a plot point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:03
|
|
|
So what morphogenetic weewoo accounts for this? Sigma happened to subconsciously suggest to Alice that she change her vote to his advantage (in this path and this path only)? Keep in mind, this isn't a matter of him having extra information, it's a matter of his choice affecting another choice with no exchange of information other than the possibility of Alice receiving something from Sigma - but something that causes her to choose wrong. EDIT: VVV I didn't even vote. I'm annoyed because the game is being inconsistent and either it's going to be unexplained or it's going to be really convoluted about it. I eagerly await being proven wrong, I suppose. HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Feb 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:05
|
|
|
Man I don't know why you guys are even angry. You said you wanted to betray her and you got your wish, now you're mad because she picked ally this time? Hell you double betrayed her because she picked ally. I don't see the issue here. (Well ok I do see the issue but discussing it would be spoiler territory.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:06
|
|
|
I'm more shocked that Dio picked Ally. What the gently caress is going on here, VLR? e: apparently he did that the first time, too. Evidently I'm just dumb. GeneralYeti fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Feb 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:07
|
|
|
GeneralYeti posted:I'm more shocked that Dio picked Ally. What the gently caress is going on here, VLR? He picked Ally last time we took this route too. That didn't change. Edit: Clearly he's in cahoots with Luna.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:09
|
|
|
GeneralYeti posted:I'm more shocked that Dio picked Ally. What the gently caress is going on here, VLR? He did that last time through the Alice path too. The only votes that changed were ours and Alice's. Also, this caught me by surprise on my playthrough too. I started when this LP was partway down the Alice path we just took, so I went in going "okay, I know what happens: Luna allies, Ten betrays, Alice betrays, so I'll play accordingly and betray Ten and Alice". Alice was my first route, so I betrayed her and was all "ha, take that, gently caress your... betrayal...? oh, huh, that's weird".
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:10
|
|
|
Reminder that the beginning of the Cyan path had a lot of premonitions and talk about them where the other two sides didn't - I wouldn't be surprised if this is finally the path that gets super into the morphogenetic fuckery that 999 had.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:16
|
|
|
You guys wanted to betray Alice. You got exactly what you wished for! Was it worth it? 
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:18
|
|
|
Oh god-loving-drat you, game. Even though I've seen it (another's person vote changing completely arbitrarily based on our choice) coming, this is still complete and utter bullshit.  , I think my enjoyement of the plot has just dropped considerably. I really hoped you'd turn out to be better, game.Despite Alice choosing to Ally I still don't feel bad for the decision  . This is still a net gain of four points for the group total over the alternative, making this AB game tie the first one we did for the best result. Congrats on the correct choice, fellow goons .
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:22
|
|
|
Color Printer posted:You guys wanted to betray Alice.  Changing the others' vote to "you're always wrong" is still a lovely gimmick though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:24
|
|
|
I'm starting to really wish I could play this game myself if only so I can experience it without the thread being super whiny between updates.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:26
|
|
|
HMS Boromir posted:So what morphogenetic weewoo accounts for this? Sigma happened to subconsciously suggest to Alice that she change her vote to his advantage (in this path and this path only)? Yeah, I mean, the game has some glaring issues, but wait until everything plays out to start drawing lines in the sand. E: When the gently caress did Dio pick Ally, I don't remember that at all. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:29
|
|
|
Pierzak posted:Yes. She betrayed us last time. I wanted to see Alice properly betrayed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:29
|
|
|
Welcome to Virtue's Last Reward. But seriously you guys at least give the game the benefit of the doubt and see where it's going before you whine about it. There will be plenty of time for complaints later.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:31
|
|
|
If you didn't think this game was going to take as many opportunities as it could to gently caress with you I really don't know what to tell you. But yeah, maybe you should wait a bit before exploding everywhere about this new development that's apparently really lovely.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:34
|
|
|
HMS Boromir posted:So what morphogenetic weewoo accounts for this? Sigma happened to subconsciously suggest to Alice that she change her vote to his advantage (in this path and this path only)? The best theory I can some up with is that Alice has access to the same "morphogenetic weewoo" that Sigma does. She picked Ally because, in another timeline, she saw Sigma picking Ally.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
flatluigi posted:I'm starting to really wish I could play this game myself if only so I can experience it without the thread being super whiny between updates. You're being super whiny about people being super whiny.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:41
|
|
|
flatluigi posted:I'm starting to really wish I could play this game myself if only so I can experience it without the thread being super whiny between updates. Goons getting mad at a fictional character in a video game is the best part of this thread.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:42
|
|
|
Penakoto posted:You're being super whiny about people being super whiny. Oh yeah? Well you're being whiny about someone being whiny about someone being whiny  wait a minute...
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:44
|
|
|
DaveWoo posted:The best theory I can some up with is that Alice has access to the same "morphogenetic weewoo" that Sigma does. She picked Ally because, in another timeline, she saw Sigma picking Ally. I think this is a good line of thought. Although I would put it another way: why is it fair for Sigma's decision to change randomly based on the whims of dozens of goons that don't even exist in his fictional world, while it's not fair for Alice's decision to change based on the same? It's not like Sigma doesn't have his own pre-defined personality. So why is he the only one with true agency, while everyone else is supposed be some kind of deterministic decision-making machine? What makes him special? Edit: This is the same sort of media-based deconstruction as 999. Who are we controlling? Clarste fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Feb 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:46
|
|
|
Alice is Zero Also, calling it now: Alice uses the "If I picked Betray you'd have picked Ally to play the innocent victim" line of defense.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:52
|
|
|
 What the gently caress Alice. What the gently caress. Also, how the gently caress.The only thing that changed was one unobserved button push, so I'm at a complete loss for reasonable theories. My unreasonable theories are as follows: 1. While in the AB rooms in this round, Zero offered to tell her what Sigma presses and lied in both timelines, hence her assumption he'd betray. 2. Clover's accessing the morphogenic fields and feeding her info... but having Sigma influenced by us outside of the timeline is making her predictions inaccurate. So far, the only people we haven't seen lose points are K, Dio, and Quark, mostly because they always betray unless prevented by outside circumstances and whatever went on in Cyan Route Round One. Phi's lost points, but it's been Sigma's fault every last time. She only allies if its a guaranteed two points, which happens relatively often with her. So those four are pretty consistently self-serving. Likewise, Clover's pretty betrayal-oriented. She's allied exactly once, and she was dead at that point. Luna's always allied, making Sigma, Ten, and Alice the wild cards. Sigma can be explained due to being run by goon committee. As far as I can tell, Ten either tends to ally by default and betray under special circumstances, like being at 1 BP, pairing up with Dio, or whatever the gently caress went on in Yellow Round One. Or he tends to betray by default and allies under special circumstances like being set up against Quark... or K, for whatever reason. Maybe he's close to pre-amnesia K and Quark's a K clone. Or he just doesn't want to get on K's bad side because he's a big hulking armor man. And of course nobody knows what the gently caress's up with Alice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:53
|
|
|
Regy Rusty posted:At least give the game the benefit of the doubt and see where it's going before you whine about it. The objection is not that it unexpectedly makes us look bad. The objection is that it's betraying the narrative. If the game treats its own events as arbitrary, then effectively the writers are saying "screw you sucker, everything you do is utterly meaningless." There are only three rock-solid rules of writing narrative: Don't bewilder the reader. Don't bore the reader. Don't cheat the reader. Break any one of those, and you stand a good risk of losing that reader, possibly for life. Revising events like this is cheating the reader colossally and, surprise surprise, a lot of people feel angry and betrayed. I don't give a flying gently caress if there's some hand-wavey plot coupon nonsense later that the writers use as an excuse; that's utterly irrelevant. Cheat the narrative, and you declare that your story is lovely. Life is just too short to waste time on lovely stories.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:53
|
|
|
Okay, people? Let's please not have any posting about posting about posting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 18:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 23:29 |
|
|
Clarste posted:I think this is a good line of thought. Although I would put it another way: why is it fair for Sigma's decision to change randomly based on the whims of dozens of goons that don't even exist in his fictional world, while it's not fair for Alice's decision to change based on the same? It's not like Sigma doesn't have his own pre-defined personality. So why is he the only one with true agency, while everyone else is supposed be some kind of deterministic decision-making machine? What makes him special? My main issue with Alice changing her mind when we change ours is that the illusion of free will is destroyed. You can pick either thing, but Alice will always pick betray when we ally, and will always ally when we betray. There can never be a scenario in which we both ally because that would just work out too smoothly. (At least I'd assume so because there is no third path.) If Alice had the ability to change her mind, then this should be an option: Keep picking ally with Alice until she does, too. edit: If there is someone who influences her decision based on ours like Alopex suggests, then this issue would of course be resolved. And More fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Feb 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 19:06
|
|
