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Luna/Magenta was actually the last door I picked in the game, like as late as could be feasibly possible, so I'm interested to see how the story works if we go through there first. Luna! E: GAH I just barely missed that one eh? (Not that it matters)
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May 29, 2013 15:44
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Only after backtracking through the thread a bit did I realize that it's going to have so much more than I expected: I came for the speculation and reactions, but stayed for easy mode dialogues, Japanese voices and HelloWinter goodness. Oh, and Fedule's narration, of course.might be wrong posted:The new penalty is so...anticlimactic? Death is death, but the threat of loving exploding in 999 just made me incredibly tense every time we went through a door.
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May 29, 2013 16:07
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Fedule posted:Wow! I, uh, misjudged how many readers there'd be. Maybe I ought to take yet another lead from DR2 and go off-site for polls... Given how many of these polls there are going to be (and that the reader count will probably keep rising anyway), I'd say that's a good idea. e: SingerOfW posted:Pretty sure the writer had to change the penalty because the producers considered explosions way too graphic for this kind of game. And honestly, it really is, even if it's just in text. Uchikoshi wasn't very happy about it 
tiistai fucked around with this message at 16:35 on May 29, 2013 |
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May 29, 2013 16:32
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SingerOfW posted:Pretty sure the writer had to change the penalty because the producers considered explosions way too graphic for this kind of game. And honestly, it really is, even if it's just in text. This is the one thing that kinda creeped me out about 999: whoever wrote the descriptions of the exploded bodies went into wayyyyyyy too much detail. Like, holy poo poo. Dial it back a bit. EDIT: vvvv I didn't even think about that 
Color Printer fucked around with this message at 16:45 on May 29, 2013 |
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May 29, 2013 16:33
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Color Printer posted:This is the one thing that kinda creeped me out about 999: whoever wrote the descriptions of the exploded bodies went into wayyyyyyy too much detail. Like, holy poo poo. Dial it back a bit. Remember that the narration for those parts was 10-year-old Akane for extra creepiness.
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May 29, 2013 16:43
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I remember the exploded bodies being described as spaghetti and crabs and other food metaphors, which was hilarious at the time.
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May 29, 2013 16:47
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SingerOfW posted:Pretty sure the writer had to change the penalty because the producers considered explosions way too graphic for this kind of game. And honestly, it really is, even if it's just in text. It also establishes a different tone for the Nonary Game this time round, rather than being blown up you die painlessly in your sleep.
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May 29, 2013 16:55
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It's a tragedy, really. Snake-spaghetti was maybe my favourite part of 999.
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May 29, 2013 17:02
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Fedule posted:VLR OST: [Consternation] Yet another track on the OST that, combined with the setting, was remarkably effective at sending chills down my spine. It's not so bad after it gets going, but that first 20 seconds or so just creeps me the hell out. For me, the music in this game was far more disturbing than the gory explosion descriptions from 999.
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May 29, 2013 17:07
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Yes being killed via an explosion is a far worse death then dying painlessly in your sleep... However this time we know the threat is actually real, after all they wouldn't pull the 'no detonator after all!' stunt twice. Not to mention, those 9 minutes of tension as you struggle to stay awake would be far creepier than simply exploding before you even knew what hit you. Then again, searching frantically for the DEAD with only 81 seconds left to live is also kinda scary... Personally, I also prefer the fact that the death is actually being caused by the bracelet and not an unseen bomb. Kinda creepy to imagine those needles not even inches away from your soft skin.
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May 29, 2013 17:28
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Also, fun 9 minutes for everyone in the vicinity, aware that in a few minutes their unconscious comrade will be injected with deadly poison.
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May 29, 2013 18:03
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Also remember there's an actual child in the group this time. I'm fairly happy there's no explosions around with that in mind.
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May 29, 2013 18:16
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SingerOfW posted:Only after backtracking through the thread a bit did I realize that it's going to have so much more than I expected: I came for the speculation and reactions, but stayed for easy mode dialogues, Japanese voices and HelloWinter goodness. Oh, and Fedule's narration, of course. On the Q&A page (don't Google it if you want to remain unspoiled), the author says that Chunsoft thought people didn't buy the first 999 because it was seen as too horrific, and insisted VLR should be lightened up a bit. So presumably that gave us the lack of explosions. But it possibly also gave us Zero III..
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May 29, 2013 19:02
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I agree that the next time you might want to consider going off-site for a poll, but in fairness, there was really no way to know in advance that the thread would get over 100 votes.
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May 29, 2013 19:14
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Alberenza posted:The story simply gels better that way if you ask me. Could you (not just Alberenza; you weren't the first or only to do this)? It's incredibly annoying for people who haven't played. it may not fall under the wink-wink-nudge-nudge clause, but it's every bit as annoying. If Fedule wanted to go with the best narrative, I'm sure he'd abolish voting at all. He went with voting, but comments like this makes it nearly moot, as people whimhavent played dont go in without prior knowledge anymore. If you have played and feel it should go some way, cast your vote and argue with we have already seen.
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May 29, 2013 22:29
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klafbang posted:Could you (not just Alberenza; you weren't the first or only to do this)? It's incredibly annoying for people who haven't played. it may not fall under the wink-wink-nudge-nudge clause, but it's every bit as annoying. I apologize as it was not my intention to try and devalue Fedule's decision to grant control over the paths made in the LP to the readers of this thread. I believe the story was designed to work no matter what you choose, and the statement made in my prior post was simply my opinion. Nevertheless I have taken what you said to heart and I shall not make such comments again, even when casting a vote.
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May 30, 2013 00:19
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Hey Fedule, if you see this could I possibly have a way to contact you via email? I'm not positive how kosher this is or if it falls under the dreaded  but I recently came to purchase the 999/VLR art book and can offer some scans of concept art you can use if you want to, since the most that can be found around the web are low-quality camera shots.
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May 30, 2013 00:40
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Hey guys, I found a major spoiler to both VLR and DR2 thanks to this little image I stumbled upon while messing with GIMP today: Guess it is time for me to stop speculating on both LPs now.  Sorry for the :effort:
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May 30, 2013 05:49
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Jeek posted:Hey guys, I found a major spoiler to both VLR and DR2 thanks to this little image I stumbled upon while messing with GIMP today: How did a silly crossover photoshop end up spoiling you? Did you google it or something and see a bunch of spoilery related images?
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May 30, 2013 05:52
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Wolpertinger posted:How did a silly crossover photoshop end up spoiling you? Did you google it or something and see a bunch of spoilery related images?
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May 30, 2013 05:54
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Wolpertinger posted:How did a silly crossover photoshop end up spoiling you? Did you google it or something and see a bunch of spoilery related images? I think he was joking
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May 30, 2013 05:54
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Wolpertinger posted:How did a silly crossover photoshop end up spoiling you? Did you google it or something and see a bunch of spoilery related images? Don't you see? Zero III is really a crazy Usami affected by Monobear's murder game within the mainframe that they reside in. 
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May 30, 2013 05:57
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Ever since this thread started I've been waiting for someone to photoshop Zero III into one of those images where Monobear punches Monomi. Don't disappoint me. 
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May 30, 2013 06:59
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Just caved in and bought the game after reading 999 and the few posts in this thread. Not regretting it at all but ran into a roadblock and unsure what the game wants me to do, so hoping to get a bit of insight from the updates if I don't just look it up myself.
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May 30, 2013 07:08
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Just caved in and bought the game after reading 999 and the few posts in this thread. Not regretting it at all but ran into a roadblock and unsure what the game wants me to do, so hoping to get a bit of insight from the updates if I don't just look it up myself. If you'd rather not wait that long, you could ask for help in the proper VLR thread in Games, which is a thing that exists.
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May 30, 2013 07:10
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Just caved in and bought the game after reading 999 and the few posts in this thread. Not regretting it at all but ran into a roadblock and unsure what the game wants me to do, so hoping to get a bit of insight from the updates if I don't just look it up myself. I can think of a few spots where that happens in the initial puzzle rooms. Most of the rooms at least work in "locked room" logic, but there's an occasional "how was I supposed to know THAT?" Can't offer tips or ask where you're stuck of course, just offer sympathies.
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May 30, 2013 07:15
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njsykora posted:It also establishes a different tone for the Nonary Game this time round, rather than being blown up you die painlessly in your sleep. I'd also like to point out, if you recall, that explosions only occur to two people, and those two were also assholes.
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May 30, 2013 10:56
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Skunkrocker posted:I'd also like to point out, if you recall, that explosions only occur to two people, and those two were also assholes. So violent murder is justified if the victims are subjectively labelled assholes? Not that I don't agree with you about the dead people in 999 being assholes. It's just interesting how blasé people in general become about such things once villainy is established. Add in (also subjective) fundamental attribution error, and suddenly due process becomes no longer as important, vigilantism casual. (For the record I'm not immune from falling into this mindset, nor do I believe treatment of video games can be equated with real life.)
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May 30, 2013 12:09
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I think it's less about ethics and due process than about getting away with it. Lots of people probably have "assholes" they'd love to kill with impunity.
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May 30, 2013 12:38
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Oh man, I am so pumped for what I assume is coming up soon, which is a ridiculous, unbelievable psuedo-scientific rant about magic ice or telekinetic fields or something. A long, crazy one, with full voice acting. 
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May 30, 2013 13:53
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Edit: Retracted my rant about people spoiling. The mods ARE doing their jobs, and I really shouldn't be screaming at every "Hint hint" spoiler, or at every goon who won't read the first post. I apologize, Fedule. Keep up the good work. Sytakan fucked around with this message at 14:41 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 14:33
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El Generico posted:Oh man, I am so pumped for what I assume is coming up soon, which is a ridiculous, unbelievable psuedo-scientific rant about magic ice or telekinetic fields or something. A long, crazy one, with full voice acting. Full voice acting is easily the best addition to VLR. Zero III dubbed in English is so much better than the Japanese, I wish the EU version had it. Pierzak posted:I think it's less about ethics and due process than about getting away with it. Lots of people probably have "assholes" they'd love to kill with impunity. Some people might kill if they could get away with it, yeah, but that wasn't the point of my observation. In this example June and Santa were vigilantes who directly manipulated others (i.e. Ace) to cause certain people to die gruesome deaths. I read Skunkrocker's post as a defense of the bombs because 1) only two people died, and 2) those people were "assholes", which meant those people could be written off/their killings were justified. (by all means, Skunkrocker, correct me if I'm wrong!) To clarify, I wanted to invite people to think about how the way facts are framed can bias one's perceptions. Leaving it there would feel half-baked of me, so I'll try to explain. I've had a long day so apologies in advance if my thoughts sound unclear. (A note: I define bias as distinct from Having An Opinion which Skunkrocker hasn't yet expressed. The question I actually asked was deliberately provocative and somewhat sarcastic - I'm sure Skunkrocker is a great guy - but my point stands.) Framing makes such a difference. On one hand, of course killing Ace's gang was justified! These people kidnapped 18 children and put their lives in mortal danger. Santa's sister actually died (at first). On the other hand: what if the only information you got was from a newspaper? 'Teen siblings carry out decade-long revenge plot to murder 2 people and kidnap 7 others', the headline might proclaim. Without the sentimental backstory the article would surely lack, lest people see these people as human beings, even awful ones (and going by actions, they are) it's completely senseless. It's selfish and wasteful: these kids are (presumably) millionaire stockbrokers, so why couldn't they move on? Why not start a charity with the same money and work towards something more meaningful? Once certain labels are attached: 'murder', 'kidnapping', 'assault', maybe even 'psychopath'... we have Bad People (because of the aforementioned X Y and Z). Where's the truth? There is none. Well ok then, what's my opinion after having considered what hasn't been said? ... People usually stop at the judgment stage. Case in point: you didn't explain further beyond your initial assessment. (Not that I mind too much: I get that we can't always or don't feel like taking the time.) In some cases, like the 999 example, this leads to bias and even hypocrisy. Think about it. If not, I'll explain it shortly. Now, I'm not defending real life murderers and kidnappers and what-have-you. They should absolutely be condemned, once convicted in a fair trial. Wrong actions are wrong actions no matter how "justified" the motive. For example I understood June's motive but still despised her after playing 999 because of her utter lack of remorse and her escape of accountability by vanishing. I know, I know, that's a lot of words to say "guys! guys! Grey morals are A Thing in video games!". But if both sides aren't presented at once, and they usually aren't, the truth needs to be assessed, even briefly. I said earlier that I don't believe treatment of video games can be equated with real life. This remains true: I don't think, for example, Skunkrocker or any normal person would think hypothetical murder was OK just because the victim might have punched them in the face 10 years earlier. But critical thinking is universal and can be applied to both contexts. Now I know good video games can cause deep emotional engagement. I love 999 and consider June a well-written character. But to assume something is excusable or "good" because you've empathised with how it's been framed emotionally, and at the same time dismiss its real life equivalents as "bad" and alien because you haven't empathised with how it's been framed objectively-- there's a certain hypocrisy in that. So yes, it's about ethics. Fall fucked around with this message at 15:47 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 15:32
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OK, I think I see what you're trying to say. We may be OK with killing assholes when the protagonist does it because "we will know who's an rear end in a top hat and we'll do no wrong to ourselves that way" even if it's blatantly untrue. But when it's someone else, it starts getting disturbingly similar to what oppressive regimes do, the "We're getting rid of these and these asshold for the good of all, next we're killing you and no one bats an eyelid because officially you're evil" way. I want to see more situations when the protagonist exercises their "law of force" and does gently caress up in the long run, not ethically but pragmatically. "Yes they were assholes, but also very necessary members of the group/society/whatever, and you've cut off your only means of survival, you hosed it up you deal with it." Pierzak fucked around with this message at 15:49 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 15:46
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Fall posted:Now, I'm not defending real life murderers and kidnappers and what-have-you. They should absolutely be condemned, once convicted in a fair trial. Wrong actions are wrong actions no matter how "justified" the motive. For example I understood June's motive but still despised her after playing 999 because of her utter lack of remorse and her escape of accountability by vanishing. Thing is, I think June actually knew this. From her POV, she needs to close the time loop, so she knows that if no-one else runs the Nonary Game then she's going to have to, and those people must die. She also knows that the world at large will never have any knowledge of her death, because it never happened. Now, you can call this a huge narrative fudge if you want (because, yea, closed time loops do kind of suck) but the impression I got from 999 is that it sucks to be June and she's forced to vanish against her wishes.
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May 30, 2013 16:04
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Pierzak posted:OK, I think I see what you're trying to say. We may be OK with killing assholes when the protagonist does it because "we will know who's an rear end in a top hat and we'll do no wrong to ourselves that way" even if it's blatantly untrue. But when it's someone else, it starts getting disturbingly similar to what oppressive regimes do, the "We're getting rid of these and these asshold for the good of all, next we're killing you and no one bats an eyelid because officially you're evil" way. Yeah, kind of. Protagonists are traditionally "good guys" (although antiheroes have existed historically for a long time and are growing more popular) and that perception can create some interesting logical disconnects in a player that are hard to find and harder to explain. I don't want to get too political here but broaden that field of vision to our media today, especially international news written by domestic journalists and domestic news written by international journalists, and you'll find a lot of the same. But this is getting outside the scope of the thread and I'm not sure people would be too interested in more meta talk, nor am I one of the many more highly qualified to discuss these things! I might revise this post tomorrow if there's free time. So do I  hyphz posted:Thing is, I think June actually knew this. From her POV, she needs to close the time loop, so she knows that if no-one else runs the Nonary Game then she's going to have to, and those people must die. She also knows that the world at large will never have any knowledge of her death, because it never happened. Oh, I agree. With all of your post. (Closed time loops do kind of suck but if it makes sense in-universe, it's good enough for me ) Nobody wants to die though. 999's plot sets June in a special case: commit the very crimes she wants vengeance for by kidnapping and killing villains (adults, not children! I imagine was her justification) and traumatise several others, saving only herself, or... accept her death in the incinerator. In the end it's her selfishness that drives her-- or, framed another way, her despair and fear of death. She's only a child, you or I might say. Nobody should die so young. ...Choosing the more selfish route is both a very terrible and very human thing to do, and I guess that's why even though I dislike her as a person, she's amazing as a character.
Fall fucked around with this message at 16:22 on May 30, 2013 |
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May 30, 2013 16:10
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The most fascinating aspect of the morality surrounding June is that, even if you assume that she's justified in her actions, her success in the second Nonary Game means that the thing that justifies her actions never technically happened (though she was still locked in an incinerator. Is it the thought that counts?), so even if she is justified, she cannot justify herself to any other observer. Anyway, a short update coming up while I go and write up the escape.
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May 30, 2013 16:52
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VLR OST: [Strain] We have a winner. Are you guys good with that? Listen in: [English/Japanese] Sure. All right. Then Clover and I will go with Alice... I don't have any objections. We'll be going through the yellow door, right? Ugh. Stuck with a kid and some old fart... I can't see how this could possibly go badly. Hmph. Well, maybe we'll get lucky and you'll pull your head out of your rear end. What'd you just say?! Nine... Eight... Seven... All right guys! Let's get moving! Three... Two... One... Chromatic Doors closing. [Music fades out] VLR OST: [Sinisterness] Listen in: [English/Japanese] Didn't you see the door? It said this is the Lounge. ...Lounge? Does that mean there's somebody living here? Well, there doesn't seem to be much dust... Maybe there is. Hmm... So you've got a well-used lounge right next to a big empty warehouse... What is this building for? ... Beats me. Yeah. The one we came in, the one opposite it, and two more on the left and right. The two on the sides are covered with metal plates, though. Don't think we'll be opening them any time soon. This one's locked too. Maybe we can find one of the keys to the AB Room in here somewhere. Well, it's not gonna find itself. Let's go!
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May 30, 2013 16:58
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What, no annoying map movement gif that goes on for way too long and can't be skipped at all? These poor people who never played the game will now never know the joy of having to wait through dots moving on a blueprint map, without being able to skip it the first time through. Still not as bad as 999's d-pad fastforward, but still awful.
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May 30, 2013 17:04
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Yes. Yes it was just as bad. What are you talking about?
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May 30, 2013 17:23
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lotus circle posted:What, no annoying map movement gif that goes on for way too long and can't be skipped at all? These poor people who never played the game will now never know the joy of having to wait through dots moving on a blueprint map, without being able to skip it the first time through. My vita is falling asleep each time I have one of those dot movement things, I actually have a youtube video up just to slowly go through whenever any hint of movements coming up v v
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May 30, 2013 17:25
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