|
morsanlgeos posted:Speaking of thought experiments, did the Locke's Socks/Ship of Theseus reference in 999 actually relate to the story at all, or did the doll just remind Clover of Snake's arm? I think the point was that the essence of a person isn't their physical body but rather their presence in the morphogenetic field. It ties in with Lotus's speech about how our brains might just monitors for the real mind.
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 04:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 11:03 |
|
|
morsanlgeos posted:Speaking of thought experiments, did the Locke's Socks/Ship of Theseus reference in 999 actually relate to the story at all, or did the doll just remind Clover of Snake's arm? I had assumed that it was related to Snake's arm. But, considering that Clover brought it up after Junpei showed her the bookmark, chances are that it did have relevance to the previous Nonary Game and the morphogenetic fields.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 05:03
|
|
|
They never really got as far as discussing it (since the whole mechanism whereby alternate timelines exist is barely even mentioned), but it also seems that there is a question of what the true history of an object is if it can pass through multiplie hands in alternate endings. For instance, is it wrong to call it "Clover's axe" if she didn't use it in the final outcome? It's not quite the same question as the continuity of a thing over time, but it does seem related. It's even possible this touches on who or what Alice actually is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 07:51
|
|
|
Could also have been something as simple as her being weirded out that Junpei somehow knew this thing that happened from the previous Nonary game, and was asking him a question based on whether he's a sentimentalist, or just someone who uses things and throws them away. Her way of trying to figure out if she can trust him or whether he's potentially Zero, cause she seems to tend towards black/white decisions
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 15:26
|
|
|
A reminder for anyone with PS+ and a Vita, VLR will be free next Tuesday if you want to play along/play ahead.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 15:39
|
|
|
I am still doing a comparative reading line by line with the original Japanese version, though I was a little behind. The Gaulem Bay escape sequence has some interesting tidbits which I thought I'd share before I go on to that last update, which is sure to have many interesting translation decisions. - Unless it's a mistake in the transcription, there's a strangely off translation right at the beginning: Sigma: What?! Any way you look at it, it's a robot! Luna: Then maybe it's a robot...? Sounds a little strange. That's because Sigma's line should actually be more along the line of "Any way you look at it, it's made of metal!" - The "Chevron blocks" were originally "くーshaped blocks". Describing the shapes of things in terms on kana characters is fairly common in Japanese, and I think the solution the translator used is brilliant. - I have no idea why they took away the original reference here, because it makes much more sense. Luna's parade derail is originally about the "Electrical Paradise" at a popular theme park called "Dozuraanindi". That last one is an anagram of "Dizuni Rando". I think you can guess what that means. - Pun translations are always fun. Here we have "Hoshi ga hoshii!" (I want a star) translated into "A starring role". - Luna is slightly less stupid in the original, because she reads the "2" in the upside-down message not as a "Z" but as the kanji "乙", which actually does look a little like what was on the screen. - From time to time the translator just decides to write something on his own, beyond the stuff that's required out of a good translation. In this room, Sigma's empathic description of the robot army marching towards our gang with dead, inhuman eyes is the translator's invention. In the original, it's a simple "Just thinking about them waking up makes my skin crawl."
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 18:50
|
|
|
orenronen posted:- I have no idea why they took away the original reference here, because it makes much more sense. Luna's parade derail is originally about the "Electrical Paradise" at a popular theme park called "Dozuraanindi". That last one is an anagram of "Dizuni Rando". I think you can guess what that means. In fairness, I assumed it was intended as a reference to the Electric Light Parade, so I think the localization worked out here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2013 19:01
|
|
|
Listen in: [English/Japanese] Why did you open the AB Gate before everyone got back?! I apologize... We only turned away for a moment... Dio opened it. Of course we do! Why? I don't remember us all promising we wouldn't open the thing until everyone showed up. This isn't about promises! Are you stupid, or just an rear end in a top hat?! Probably both! We were able to get back here in time, but what about the others? Tenmyouji, Quark and Clover are still out there somewhere! What were you planning to do if they didn't get back in time?! Why would I have to do anything? Seems pretty straightforward to me. So what if they don't get back in time? They'll all get set to "ally" and all three of 'em will get 2 BP. Sounds like a sweet deal to me. Tenmyouji's only got 1 BP; I figure he'll be pretty happy to get 2 more. And that'll put Quark and Clover up close to 9, so that's not too bad for them either. In other words, they oughta be thanking me. We found it in our safe. Read it. "Hare are some more AB Game rules for you! Not voting is not an hoption. If both parties refuse to vote... ...then everybunny gets penalized! In other words, one person out of every color group of three has to vote. This wasn't in our room! Back me up here, guys. He's right. There was no such note in our safe. I'd never have opened the gate if I'd known about this... ... ...Really? Of course! ... If time runs out, they'll... They'll be penalized, yes. I know... Quark is part of that team. Maybe something happened with him. This is bad... (She was here just a minute ago...) [Music fades out] Listen in: [English/Japanese] *Pant* *Pant* *Pant* Whoa... Hey guys. Quark! Has Quark been here?! Did something happen to him? He disappeared! Disappeared? What do you mean? Fedule fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Feb 12, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 18:49
|
|
|
Gotta say, K's jazz hands pose in his surprised expression has a certain charm.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 18:54
|
|
|
quote:This right here is a good example of Clover's smile being part of her default model making her look weird and wrong. Such a weird decision on the developers' part.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 18:56
|
|
|
LupusAter posted:Gotta say, K's jazz hands pose in his surprised expression has a certain charm.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 18:58
|
|
|
NextTime000 posted:I like that his "eyes" also change with his expression, they really help get his mood across. Yeah, they rotate from mostly horizontal to vertical. Neat touch.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 18:59
|
|
|
King of Solomon posted:This right here is a good example of Clover's smile being part of her default model making her look weird and wrong. Such a weird decision on the developers' part. She looks like she's getting ready to cut someone. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 19:38
|
|
|
Each and every single time people have loads of spare time to make a decision, something will happen to put it off until the last 60 seconds, won't it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 20:18
|
|
|
Hobgoblin2099 posted:She looks like she's getting ready to cut someone. I dunno, that smile seems more axe-like...
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:10
|
|
|
LupusAter posted:Gotta say, K's jazz hands pose in his surprised expression has a certain charm. I can't stop laughing at his surprised expression, it just looks hilarious to me. And Quark's disappearance is really odd - there can't have been many places for him to run, right? Outside of the three initial rooms. He might have ducked into the Gaulem Bay or wherever it was Phi's group went, but it shouldn't take them that long to go through the five rooms.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 21:33
|
|
|
I have a suspicion Alice has already found Quark. For all the suspense there's supposed to be, it's a shame everyone has really dopey shrugging/surprised poses (or in Clover's case the exact same blank smile). It just never fails to amuse me, especially Dio's. might be wrong fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jun 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 22:47
|
|
|
I read somewhere that the Clover smile thing is a bug, not an intentional thing, but I could be wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 00:29
|
|
|
Well, I just finished both reading through ALL of the 999 LP and getting caught up with this one in three days. I regret nothing! Also, normally, I'd listen to the dialogue in Japanese. Normally. This game has made me rethink that idea entirely. Psychotic bunny AI? Cockney robot? Amazing. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2013 02:29
|
|
|
A quick reminder for those who have PSN+ in the states the game is free this week.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2013 21:05
|
|
|
999 OST: [Trepidation] Listen in: [English/Japanese] Tenmyouji and I went into the lounge, but Quark didn't follow us. We turned around and started calling for him, but... When he didn't respond, we ran back the way we'd come. Right... We thought maybe he just hadn't seen us go into the lounge... So we checked the crew quarters and the infirmary. But... he wasn't there either. If we can't find him in any of the floor A rooms, we'll move to floor B. Okay. You guys go on ahead. Right, you do that. I checked both rooms. Listen in: [English/Japanese] He's not in the other two either. There's no one here. Tenmyouji and K are in the lounge, and Dio and Luna should be checking the infirmary... Right. Okay, let's leave that to them and head to floor B. Listen in: [English/Japanese] Yeah. So? What was on the other side of that door? You want to see it? Yeah. Maybe Quark went there... Fine. Follow me. Music fades out Listen in: [English/Japanese] The pantry. Pantry? That drawer over there is stuffed with processed food. Wasn't half bad, actually. You ate it? Yeah. VLR OST: [GLTM-KM506] Oh, and I ate the chef's pasta too. That's a lot of food! Can't help it. I'm a growing girl. How old are you? Whoa whoa whoa. Just... just stop. I don't even know where to start here. Two. "You think"? You should be old enough to know how old you are. I can't believe you're only two years younger than me... Listen in: [English/Japanese] You must've done a lot of drugs to look like that at twenty-two. Oh gimmie a break you little punk! I'm an adult, you dried up rear end in a top hat! So this place has enough food to keep people alive for a few years, huh? Looks like this stuff isn't going to expire anytime soon... Yeah, the "use by" date is about a hundred years from now... How about water? There's a tank over there. Is it... safe? Well, since Dio isn't rolling around on the floor in agonizing pain, I'm going to go ahead and assume it's okay. You made him drink it to make sure it was safe? I guess you could say that. So you ate all the food without a second thought, but the water struck you as possibly dangerous? No. I was careful with the food too. Dio had some of it first, and it seemed fine so I-- What? I ate something else! Twice-cooked pork! Oh for God's sake! Why the hell are you shouting about that? ... Wait a minute... Twice-cooked pork? What is it? Well, that just... reminded me of something. Reminded you of what? This might seem hard to believe at-- Oh come on, at least let me tell you first! All right... Listen in: [English/Japanese] So the G-OLM guy was turned off just when he was about to tell you something... Yeah. So the last thing he said was, "See, right in the middle of--"? Right in the middle... "Middle" could be from "Middle Kingdom", which is another name for China... Well, this was utterly pointless. Please, explain. Well, maybe he was trying to say that this game is like the Chinese Room. In other words-- Music fades out There you are! I've been looking all over for you! What's going on? Something bad! Something really bad! Well come on, spill it. Alice... Alice is... ... Just come with me! She's in the crew quarters! VLR OST: [Strain] Music fades out
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 07:59
|
|
|
Oh no! Alice spilled spaghetti all over her lack-of-a shirt!
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 08:18
|
|
|
Well, that just made voting easie- ...Aww, poo poo, Clover's gonna cut someone, isn't she? And the fact this death trap has edible food makes it seem far less menacing than the first one! Fedule posted:
Fedule posted:
In lighter news, Phi is steadily moving closer to becoming the best character with each update.
Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Jun 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 08:22
|
|
|
Oh, Clover, are you murdering people again? What a scamp.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 08:39
|
|
|
Fedule posted:
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 10:19
|
|
|
Hobgoblin2099 posted:And the fact this death trap has edible food makes it seem far less menacing than the first one! It sounds more like an implication of how bad things get outside of the death trap.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 10:22
|
|
|
WELP  There go all the hopes of this not turning into an unsalvageable clusterfuck. Hopefully we'll do better next time, because there's no loving way this won't culminate in a gruesome bad end. As for the identity of the killer, my personal bet's on Quark- Alice seemed to have found him in the end of the previous update and he didn't look very stable the last time we saw him. As for Clover, I just really hope there aren't any axes around...
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 10:37
|
|
|
Congratulations to this thread for ruining my sleep two nights in a row. Now I get to have a brain full of murder mystery LPs! I was wondering when the bodies would start showing up like they did in 999. I didn't expect Alice to be the first of our team to die, though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 11:44
|
|
|
SingerOfW posted:And this is the part I found the most unnatural-sounding. Really, is "Kingdom" the first word that comes to one's mind when hearing the phrase "Right in the middle"? Especially when it ends with "of"? Then again, this is Phi, and being unnatural is normal for her. In Japanese, at least, China is 中国, where the first character, 中, means middle and the second one, 国, means country or kingdom. (The radical inside the box, minus the little apostrophe-looking bit, is the kanji for "king", 王.) It still makes little to no sense, but like you said, that's Phi. My apologies if this post is just boxes for anyone.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 12:38
|
|
|
A retraction: GTM-KM-506 refers to Kawachi Model, not Kansai Model as I originally I still can't believe no one knows who the English VA is (who's willing to tell, anyway). Someone's going to spill eventually.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 15:26
|
|
|
Nidoking posted:In Japanese, at least, China is 中国, where the first character, 中, means middle and the second one, 国, means country or kingdom. (The radical inside the box, minus the little apostrophe-looking bit, is the kanji for "king", 王.) It still makes little to no sense, but like you said, that's Phi. Except that's not what the Japanese line is about at all. Honestly, it's one of the few cases where the Japanese is much better than the translation they came up with. 506's last line in Japanese is "Chuuka, jissai ni...", "Speaking of, to tell you the truth...". Chuuka is a colloquial contraction of "tte iu ka" ("speaking of"). It's also how you say "Chinese food." Phi's line originally goes, "Chuuka -> Chinese food -> Twice-cooked pork!" (yes, with the arrows in the text), which puts a nice cap on the food-talk joke.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 15:36
|
|
|
Jeek posted:It sounds more like an implication of how bad things get outside of the death trap. Yeeep. I'd have to agree with this. I mean, there's food in this bunker that lasts for a hundred years at the very least? Some serious poo poo must've gone down in the outside world, and hey, we already know what happened! This is most probably a shelter designed to last through the epidemic. And Phi's lines about still growing at age twenty? And how she thinks Sigma must've been doing drugs to look like that at age 22? This is most probably set in the distant future, maybe even centuries after Sigma's kidnapping, if the human development process has slowed down that much. And maybe they even gained super jumping powers in the process, who knows.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 16:40
|
|
|
orenronen posted:Except that's not what the Japanese line is about at all. Honestly, it's one of the few cases where the Japanese is much better than the translation they came up with. I caught a bit of that when I listened to the Japanese again, but I don't think I'll ever know the language well enough to pick up on details like these. Thanks for the correction.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 17:05
|
|
|
So there goes Alice. This was the first path that I went down as well, so I was pretty surprised to see Alice dead before we knew anything about her.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 17:21
|
|
|
Maybe it is because I just finished reading the Ever17 LP the other day, but when I read Phi's line about "you must be on drugs if you are 22", the first thing I thought is that Sigma is either a robot or is in fact actually older  (especially since the dialog in the game implies they been unconcious for a lot of time, and also because we've never seen Sigma's appereance outside of those flashbacks of when he was kidnapped. Although that could be chalked up to VN conventions). Then again, I'm terrible at speculating stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 17:39
|
|
|
It's going to turn out the 'hundred years from now' expiration dates are going to be closer to the true date than they think it is, isn't it? A lot can happen in almost 100 years.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 18:04
|
|
|
Well it took a bit longer than the last game but it looks like we're gonna get bodies on the floor in a hurry now. So far in this game Phi and Sigma have had the best scenes and it isn't particularly close.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 19:13
|
|
|
orenronen posted:Except that's not what the Japanese line is about at all. Honestly, it's one of the few cases where the Japanese is much better than the translation they came up with. So "middle of" isn't a crucial bit of information, and the connection to "Middle Kingdom" was invented by the translators. How did they screw it up that bad? All they needed to do was cut it off a word earlier. Am I not incorrect in thinking Sigma's assessment of Phi as thirteen is way off base? She looks exactly how old she says she is to me, and indeed he does look a bit older than 22 (but not by much).
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 19:59
|
|
|
Kangra posted:So "middle of" isn't a crucial bit of information, and the connection to "Middle Kingdom" was invented by the translators. How did they screw it up that bad? All they needed to do was cut it off a word earlier. How is it bad for the translators to do their own silly thing for Phi rather than rely on a Japanese pun that isn't easily localized?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 20:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 11:03 |
|
|
Kangra posted:So "middle of" isn't a crucial bit of information, and the connection to "Middle Kingdom" was invented by the translators. How did they screw it up that bad? All they needed to do was cut it off a word earlier. Smells like exaggerated insults that lead to a romance. This game is secretly a really hosed up dating sim!
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2013 20:49
|
|