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theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
I have missed Fedule puns. I'll be keeping a close eye on this one.

Also seconding the love for Zero III's voice, it's spectacular.

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theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
e: you know what, never mind.

theshim fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 23, 2013

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
e: ah god drat it, that was brought up in the 999 thread, not here. Sorry!

theshim fucked around with this message at 20:37 on May 23, 2013

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
The easy mode dialogue is amazing. Sadly, the triumphant dialogue after solving the box doesn't seem to take the fact that she had to quite literally hand Sigma the solution into account. Ah well.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

Sundowner posted:

I appreciate the suggestions to read the previous LP. I almost feel like I'm being rude by not going back now. I'll probably go back and read it but I was rather enjoying watching this thread and it's discussions develop.
You'll enjoy it a lot more if you read 999 - otherwise people are going to be making remarks about callbacks and the like and it'll go over your head.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Oooh, I like Placidity. Very nice.

The designs for this game are incomparably silly, though.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
I am absolutely wowed by Zero III. This is spectacular.

Exactly three per group really narrows down our options, though. Unless the game's gonna swap people's Pair/Solo status around later, we have no way of going into a door with Clover and K, or Dio and Quark.

theshim fucked around with this message at 15:59 on May 27, 2013

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Pure speculation, but I'm betting at least one person in this game is colorblind. If they really want to throw a wrench in, they can make it just red-green colorblind to really throw people off, but given that this game looks like it's going to be focusing on color theory, someone being colorblind is a great tool to throw into the mix.

And I'm hoping the rules change at certain points, because I already want to hang with K (and Clover, I guess).

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Let's go with Luna. Seems to be a good idea to have Clover and Alice together, hopefully that will stave off any...murderous impulses that may arise. :black101:

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Lounge is...ominous. Not bad, but it has a pretty dark vibe.

Our protagonists are a bunch of goofballs. Sigma and Phi in particular can't decide if they're taking anything seriously. It's great! :allears:

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
What indeed :stare:

Also one thing that popped up to me last update but I forgot to mention: there's something very off about Zero III's speaking. To wit, if he only picked it up as a habit then and there and decided to run with it, why are the supplementary rules written in that fashion? Or perhaps - how?

e: also ohgod ohgod Trepidation :ohdear:

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

Count Bleck posted:

You're questioning the motives of Artificial Intelligence designed to run a game where people die.

Perhaps its just having them written as it goes along and just gets them in the safes... somehow?
Not the motives, but the methods, I guess.

I mean either it gets them into the safes (in which case I want to know how) or it's a plot hole.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Luna is very conspicuously vague about what license she has, though! :tinfoil:

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Ah, the Prisoner's Dilemma. Always a fun thing to throw into a game to the death.

Data is...eh. It's a very bleak, tense theme, but in a series packed to the brim with them, it doesn't stand out at all.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
The real trick is that if you betray anyone, no one will ever ally with you for one simple reason: you'll have 6 BP. Meaning if one more person agrees to ally, and you betray them, you can escape and leave everyone else high and dry.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Tenmyoji and Quark are paired up, huh? There's going to be considerable strain there.

Also Dio is probably going to get his rear end kicked by Phi. I'm surprised no one's gone after him yet, he's basically been a complete rear end in a top hat nonstop.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
One thing that keeps popping up is bugging me. People keep saying dead people auto-ally - who says dead people still get to play the Ambidex Game? Did I miss that, or is it an assumption?

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Cloverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :argh:

Once again, vital information comes down to "make Clover trust you". drat it all.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Gaulem is...simply unpleasant.

Other than Placidity, VLR's music has been much less pleasant to listen to compared to 999's. Shame.

Also it's really starting to get on my nerves when every time you find something your partners go "say, Sigma, can you think of anywhere this might go?"

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Who the hell uses a spoon to eat spaghetti? :confused:

That looks like Alice's bracelet on the floor next to her. You'd think the killer spaghetti monster would have taken it...

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Yeah, thinking about it further, taking the bracelet both wouldn't help and would be a big red flag. They'll need it anyway later, assuming the rules don't change when someone dies.

Also Alice's bracelet is only really auto-ally if she ends up as a solo again. If she ends up in a pair, the other member can choose to hit betray.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Ice cold, Phi, ice cold. She's way, way too calm and rational about all this, and with her "this time" comments, she is incredibly suspicious while at the same time one of the least likely candidates to be either Zero or have killed anyone.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Man, I am really just not blown away by VLR's soundtrack. It's all perfectly atmospheric and fits well, but it also is simply unpleasant to listen to in all but a couple cases, like Placidity. It's disappointing - 999 had its share of duds but it had a lot more really good ones than VLR does so far.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
A question: Are we sure that only one room was moved?

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Okay, Clarification is good. About time we got some good stuff. e: On further listening...mrgh. It gets really repetitive.

There's some blood on Tenmyouji's shirt. Is it from his own wrist in a similar condition? From Clover? From a stab wound?

theshim fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Aug 22, 2013

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

Pidmon posted:

qi0 is actually Clover's biggest regret - she's a hardcore scrabble player and thinks that Qi shouldn't count as a word.
It shouldn't, drat it :argh:

Seriously at this point the only things that really could make sense are Quark being the robot (which still doesn't explain his earlier freakout) or Phi killing people (which seems extremely unlikely); that or we simply don't have the information necessary to tackle this yet (i.e. if it's someone else entirely).

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
That Phi is absolutely adorable, tiistai, please draw more! Also Phi has my favorite design from this game, most notably because it's one of the few outfits that anyone would reasonably wear.

Instant Grat posted:

Would you say that there is Zero Escape for you
:frogout:

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

Clarste posted:

Tenmyouji, Phi, Sigma, Old Lady, and Luna have reasonable outfits, if I remember correctly. So that's half the cast. Quark is okay too other than the weird hat.
Quark's hat utterly disqualifies him and I forgot about the old lady, but point taken.

Still, the ridiculous ones are just so far over the top...

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

And where did this come from, Phi?

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Really? Really? A straight "to be continued"?

Come. On.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

Heavy neutrino posted:

Hahaha. I've been waiting to see the thread's reaction when we hit that roadblock with four or five mysteries still in the air.

Nope, you'll just have to wait to find out what happened in a couple months. Or buy the game -- you should definitely do that.
No, things like this make me want to buy the game less.

I'll still follow the hell out the LP, though.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

Onmi posted:

I AM YOU
YOU WILL BE ME
SHE KNOWS EVERYTHING.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up my thoughts that time travel of some sort is involved. Except since it's a Zero Escape game I doubt it will be as simple as time travel.
I just hope it does a better job of it than 999. I'm still annoyed that they had to write a specific loophole to be able to make the story and game structure work - that not only could she communicate across space with the morphogenetic field, not only even across time, but also across timelines which could not have happened.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

tiistai posted:

Akane wasn't communicating across timelines, she was communicating to the future, to a specific timeline. Every route you see in 999 is a possible timeline (most of which are contradictory but still timelines that would happen with the given choices) that Akane also sees. Basically, you're playing as the young Akane, not Junpei, and all the metainformation you have, Akane has.
But she only gets the information from what Junpei does, and if Junpei does the necessary steps to get the Safe ending, Akane dies.

I made this point in the 999 thread, but Akane's stated ability is to access the morphogenetic field and communicate with Junpei. She both transmits and receives. This is the stated supernatural working of the game and I'm willing to accept it. What I'm still unhappy with and hope that VLR resolves satisfactorily is that, quite simply, for Akane to see the Safe End, she has to die.

The morphogenetic fieldset and people's ability to access it is laid out in 999 as a transmittal of information. At first, it's only across space, in the original Nonary Game that Gentarou set up, but then we find out that Akane and Junpei are communicating across time as well. Which is a cool reveal and all, but when Akane explains things, she specifically has to explain that she has the ability to obtain information from timelines that do not happen and can not happen. It is absolutely impossible for the Safe End to occur without causing a huge paradox. The writers effectively had to add another step for Akane's ability to make the story work, on top of the existing rules for morphogenetic (this word is silly and too long) communication.

In short my problem is that Akane has to receive information that she cannot receive without dying and causing a paradox.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

Confused Llama posted:

Think of it like this. Akane acquires the ability to see all possible futures.
See, this is outside the scope of the stated mechanics of the morphogenetic fieldset. Akane specifically has to be an almost Mary Sue exception to the rules, because she's not just able to transmit or receive information but to obtain it from sources that shouldn't even be possible. All other transmitters or receivers - even Junpei - are sending information they have obtained or receiving information from someone who knows it. Junpei receives the coffin password from and transmits the final puzzle solution to past Akane.

Akane alone is able to receive information from paradoxes. She can basically savestate, follow a path, and when she dies on that path instead jump back and keep the information she learned.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

Color Printer posted:

I think at right about this sentence I suddenly realized how absolutely, pointlessly silly this entire argument is.
Sorry, I know. :(

I just like the rules to actually work. It's one of the reasons I'm a huge fan of Brandon Sanderson - the systems of magic in his books are all actually detailed and work in specific ways and a great number of the plot twists are based around creative interpretations of the rules, not exceptions. I just want things to make sense :smith:

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

tiistai posted:

By the way, see, not (necessarily) physically jump to. That's not a time paradox. It's like reading two puzzle books, one of which has some of the answers filled in already, and using that one to solve the other.
But that's not how it's described. She's effectively piggybacking on Junpei, experiencing his experiences, only she has the completely separate and unique ability to do it without it actually happening. She has the ability to sit and watch the future unfold in front of her, seemingly as far as she wants, and then to jump back to herself. Basically, though the whole game implies the communication is in real time (and if Junpei doesn't make it to the incinerator to send her the solution at that moment she dies), Akane basically savestated at the beginning of the game and went back to that every time things didn't work.

(There's also the fact that child Akane, who goes back for the doll, who's panicking and in tears and is a child in a horrible situation, is somehow supposed to have gone down at least one alternate timeline far enough to get the critical information and then sent it to Junpei at the right time. Effectively her abilities have to function outside the normal progression of time as well - otherwise there'd be no reason to panic at the end if she'd already sent Junpei the coffin information as she knows he's on the right path and will be there to solve it with her. Or perhaps the fact that she panics until Junpei establishes contact points to it being more linear? The relations between the past and present, as well as the mechanics of accessing the morphogenetic field for alternate timeline information, are incredibly vague.)

Akane's unique ability just has to have so many bells and whistles attached to actually make the story work. It has to have so many exceptions and qualifications on top of the established fact that morphogenetic fields exist. This annoys me...and there's really no reason that it should - there's no reason that I should be willing to accept morphogenetic fields and communication but the moment Akane comes into play I start going "whoooaaaa not cool", so we should pretty much drop this as it's all me being nitpicky about time travel and stuff. :smithicide:

namesake posted:

Um.

This is exactly what Sigma is doing in this game. Minus the death part (so far).
And that's why I said I'm hoping VLR gives a satisfactory answer as to how this all works. I'm looking forward to the game's explanation.

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
I love the art that comes up these threads. It's just wonderful :allears:

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Dispensary is...yeah, it's...um...there.

quote:

Tenmyouji was pretty great, but Phi is still the best. :allears:

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!

HMS Boromir posted:

I'm just going to say that Phi is teeth-grindingly insufferable and whoever decided she should be the 'primary' partner is the worst.
What are you talking about, Phi has been great. I wish she'd be less utterly needlessly cryptic, but the interactions between her and Sigma are fantastic.

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theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!
Aaaaaand we're stuck with Clover.

Ugh.

The worst part is that going off 999 and her being SUPER SECRETIVE YOU GUYS this route is probably very important if not the way to the true ending (assuming there is such a thing analogous to 999's, anyway).

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