|
signalnoise posted:Now, given this is a company in the business of making money, of course they have to continue to sell new stuff. How much do you think is reasonable as a monthly expense to stay competitive? You could have a million different things that isn't feasible for WotC to do with Magic. I just really hope the dev team for Hex tap into that reality. They can certainly make it so cards only lose value by being beaten consistently by better configured decks.
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 05:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 10:17 |
|
|
Korak posted:What I don't understand is, why not just have a a thing called X Block where you will always play against the same cards of that set. So if you love X Block, you can keep playing it as long as you can find other players that like that block. You could have a block where people vote on the cards they want to see in the block. Block Constructed is a thing in Magic and technically even the old block constructeds are still around, it's just that "as long as you can find other players that like that block" usually translates into "extremely rarely if ever" for anything but the most recent one.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 05:52
|
|
|
I think you guys are getting ahead of yourselves here. One thing you guys are forgetting is that these first few sets have to pull double duty: they need to act as an introduction to the game for new players and TCG veterans alike. They have to contain those basic cards that define and exemplify mechanics clearly to new players. A good example of this kind of thing is that in MTG 2CMC 2/2 creatures are commonly referred to as "Bears". In order for that sort of thing to happen, Grizzly Bears had to get printed and become iconic enough to serve as a common reference point. They also need to contain high level cards that can be used in competitive decks to hook the advanced players. The game will fail if there isn't enough strategy involved to engage high-skill players and form a competitive environment. Furthermore, they need to set the tone of the entire game while doing both these things. An MTG core set doesn't need to worry about that because the game has 20 years of history behind it, but these sets needs to act as a good "first impressions" to the game and define it. Edit: I guess my point is that it's kind of pointless to argue about blocks and rotations in Hex when those things don't even exist yet. Let's lay a foundation first and go from there. Zonekeeper fucked around with this message at 06:29 on May 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 06:25
|
|
|
Shortly after Cryptozoic took over the WoW TCG, they started delaying payments to artists so they could spend the money developing their own games. Some illustrators had to threaten them with lawsuits to get paid even a year late. Blizzard now handles payments to artists directly. At about $800 per illustration and 120-ish cards per set, that's almost a hundred grand in payments they were procrastinating per set. In combination with failing to pay out prize money, this makes them seem like a pretty sketchy company. John Kenpon fucked around with this message at 08:46 on May 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 07:22
|
|
|
Stormgale posted:Also will there be options to just draft with my friends/other goons I mean with the abundance of packs from the Kickstarter (as I am in for Grand King) can we setup a goon only draft if we have the product/tickets? I mean I plan to drop some of my 30 pack "Gifts" on just throwing them for goon drafts to get us playing the game and such if that is possible. One of the KS stretch goals added "Guild rankings and guild tournament support" so hopefully that means we can. If we are all paying the packs and fee I don't see why it should be an issue. Having in guild tournaments sounds pretty awesome.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 07:22
|
|
|
Am I correct in thinking that "destroy" and "bury" on the card descriptions mean the same thing, while "Void" means "remove from game" ?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 13:46
|
|
|
With the combination of Kickstarter and PayPal, I assume if a slot opens up on a Pro / Grand King that it wouldn't have enough time to go up on the Hex webpage list for PayPal pledges - so the only way to grab it would be to make multiple kickstarter accounts if you already have a tier you want to keep hold of?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 15:03
|
|
|
Grim posted:With the combination of Kickstarter and PayPal, I assume if a slot opens up on a Pro / Grand King that it wouldn't have enough time to go up on the Hex webpage list for PayPal pledges - so the only way to grab it would be to make multiple kickstarter accounts if you already have a tier you want to keep hold of? That is correct.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 16:35
|
|
|
John Kenpon posted:Shortly after Cryptozoic took over the WoW TCG, they started delaying payments to artists so they could spend the money developing their own games. Some illustrators had to threaten them with lawsuits to get paid even a year late. Blizzard now handles payments to artists directly. At about $800 per illustration and 120-ish cards per set, that's almost a hundred grand in payments they were procrastinating per set. In combination with failing to pay out prize money, this makes them seem like a pretty sketchy company. This confirms it for me: they have always been short on cash (I did some quick research and they're basically 3 years old?) and went the usual route of paying the advertising fees and staff $ over players and third parties. The Kickstarter should fix that if they budget well, so hopefully it's a thing of the past now. For that matter, I'll probably fund them myself. Just remember this post before you decide to try to spend 12 hours a day practicing for months to try to win five figures or something.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 17:50
|
|
|
Adar posted:This confirms it for me: they have always been short on cash (I did some quick research and they're basically 3 years old?) and went the usual route of paying the advertising fees and staff $ over players and third parties. Thanks for the heads' up, your analysis seems sound. For me though it's not about planning on winning competitive play but more about the chance to participate in competitive play and find out if it's something I'm capable of.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 18:20
|
|
|
I just hope they can handle it well, this is pretty much their big chance.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 18:22
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Thanks for the heads' up, your analysis seems sound. I've met basically everyone who left the MTG scene for poker up until 2009 or so and played with most of them at one time or another. There is an elite level in poker that only a few people are capable of, and a couple of them happen to be former world class MTG players; I'm fairly sure those guys will be winning a lot of the Hex moneys in their spare time if they want to. But the vast majority of the people who aren't in that tier don't do anything that some practice and logic can't get you. Basically, if you have a job, you're not going to be top 10. If you don't have a certain ability to do complicated math and predict your opponents' deck construction in your head, you probably won't be top 100. But pretty much anybody with a high standardized test score and some time to practice can win more than their share of drafts in a game like this. tldr: maybe! I'm more of a PvE and  guy these days but if it's sufficiently deep and there's a bit of fun auction house money in it, I'll make a hobby out of it myself.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 18:52
|
|
|
As someone more concerned about having fun than winning money, all I'm concerned with is that they pay out in draft tournaments with game goodies and that they don't go belly up in a year. I guess another concern would be that they have a good ranking system or something so I can play drafts against people my own skill level. (I'm bad at these games)
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 18:57
|
|
|
I need to see more cards. I'm already starting to think about a deck built from the cards we've seen.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 20:16
|
|
|
Adar posted:
Yeah, that's about what I expect. There's always that top clique of people in any online competition who are dedicating their whole lives to it. My goal is just to see how I high a ranking I can get without making my life revolve around the game.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 20:36
|
|
|
Korak posted:What I don't understand is, why not just have a a thing called X Block where you will always play against the same cards of that set. So if you love X Block, you can keep playing it as long as you can find other players that like that block. You could have a block where people vote on the cards they want to see in the block. I think they're planning to have player-defined leagues at some point after launch, which would do this to some extent. (Maybe fully, if there's support for in-game prizes for the leagues!)
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 20:40
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, that's about what I expect. There's always that top clique of people in any online competition who are dedicating their whole lives to it. My goal is just to see how I high a ranking I can get without making my life revolve around the game. Incidentally, if you're gonna (spend a lot of money and) try to get good at Internet cards, there are three overlapping but not identical skillsets involved here: -PvP -PvE -Auction House The reason PvE is different and mandatory is simply that it will generate loot. PvP is a net loser; it's possible to beat the rake (be profitable even after the entry fee if you count the boosters' $ value) as an individual, but on the whole, most people will spend money on drafts and not make money (boosters) back. But PvE generates loot instead of taking money out of the pool. So unless you want to spend even more than Kickstarter money, you'll probably have to raid a lot. This means that Dungeon Crawler is by far the best reward tier. Pro Player is an extra draft a week in year 2+ of the game, but you're hopefully not already planning on playing this game for a decade. DC gives you double the storyline loot and 20 legendaries immediately and you can sell all of it off for Paypal on the first day. That's a pretty sweet deal if the game is halfway decent on release. So if you're going for the 250 bucks, I'd forget PP and go with that one. The others seem quite bad in comparison.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 21:54
|
|
|
I think it was a bit silly how big of a loser the Guild Leader tier was before they added the year of drafts to the 250s. With grand king sold out odds are anyone is going to be able to find a guild with the guild leader effect (unless guilds are limited to 10 people or something stupid). That left you with 90 boosters which was easily beaten by getting another king tier.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 21:57
|
|
|
Adar posted:Incidentally, if you're gonna (spend a lot of money and) try to get good at Internet cards, there are three overlapping but not identical skillsets involved here: This is probably a question of time spent too. If you're going to grind loot, then Dungeon Crawler has obvious benefits, but if you don't have unlimited play time, and your focus is PvP,then you probably don't want to spend what time you do have grinding out dungeons. I'm sure you're right from a pure value perspective, but I imagine that most of the people here see themselves as players with money being an entertainment cost as opposed to pros or pseudo pros trying to earn off of the game.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 22:13
|
|
|
Adar posted:Incidentally, if you're gonna (spend a lot of money and) try to get good at Internet cards, there are three overlapping but not identical skillsets involved here: Yeah, I figured that much out and went in for Grand King because of it before they added a year of free draft to all the other tiers, and it still seems like a sufficiently superior deal that I'm not going to change out. I don't know how much grinding I'm going to want to do, but I know that Dungeon Crawler means I'll have to do half as much of it, and time is money. Plus, there's a decent chance that the Collector tier's unique-art cards will add up over time. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 22:30 on May 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 22:20
|
|
|
Adar posted:This means that Dungeon Crawler is by far the best reward tier. Pro Player is an extra draft a week in year 2+ of the game, but you're hopefully not already planning on playing this game for a decade. DC gives you double the storyline loot and 20 legendaries immediately and you can sell all of it off for Paypal on the first day. That's a pretty sweet deal if the game is halfway decent on release. So if you're going for the 250 bucks, I'd forget PP and go with that one. The others seem quite bad in comparison.  Stormgale posted:If it isn't too much trouble I am just curious, I mean considering buff's can be permanent now it kind of takes a pin out of control's cap, harder to get value when the buff stays even if it is bounced or destroyed etc I am curious what options they have.  ___
Amante fucked around with this message at 22:38 on May 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 22:35
|
|
|
Amante posted:That makes sense from a pragmatic, profit motivated perspective for sure. That being said, I think I'm going to have a hard time resisting going for "The Collector" tier. Six exclusive alternate art PvP cards a year (plus one extra of all the promo cards) tickles the fancy of my inner collector-nerd far too much I think they get double the rewards now with stretch goals. Meaning, two copies of the alternate art PvP cards a year so you can keep one and sell the other.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 22:57
|
|
|
As a note on the collector tier, for those who didn't see it, they've changed the reward to be 2 copies of each alt art. While this is good for those who want to use the cards, doubling the supply will certainly have some effect on the value of individual copies. We're still only talking about a maximum of around 4000 copies of any individual alt art (2326 at current pledges). So, if the game gets sufficiently big, they may still command a decent value if they end up being versions of powerful cards.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 23:02
|
|
|
Karnegal posted:This is probably a question of time spent too. If you're going to grind loot, then Dungeon Crawler has obvious benefits, but if you don't have unlimited play time, and your focus is PvP,then you probably don't want to spend what time you do have grinding out dungeons. Time is money, though. I'm not planning on deeply caring about auction bux (let's not forget I just spent a few posts saying it might be a Bad Idea) but if I'm going to put down $250 for a game, at the very least, I don't want to spend any more afterwards. With DC I can easily do that if the PvE is any good, because my loot will pay for boosters and then some (and what's more, the account itself only gets more valuable every expansion). With Pro Player, I get one entry into a tournament I'm not planning on winning and one draft per week a year from now, but then have to pay for all the other drafts. The only way this is a good trade is if the PvE is awful. It's sort of amusing to me that Pro Player is sold out given how much better DC will be in almost every case. Raid Leader is a far, far worse version of Dungeon Crawler and Guild Master is niche/pointless for almost everybody. Collector...eh, I don't wanna speculate. Could be good, could be really bad, but I understand you guys. Just don't take Raid Leader.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 23:03
|
|
|
Adar posted:Time is money, though. I'm not planning on deeply caring about auction bux (let's not forget I just spent a few posts saying it might be a Bad Idea) but if I'm going to put down $250 for a game, at the very least, I don't want to spend any more afterwards. With DC I can easily do that if the PvE is any good, because my loot will pay for boosters and then some (and what's more, the account itself only gets more valuable every expansion). With Pro Player, I get one entry into a tournament I'm not planning on winning and one draft per week a year from now, but then have to pay for all the other drafts. The only way this is a good trade is if the PvE is awful. It's sort of amusing to me that Pro Player is sold out given how much better DC will be in almost every case. Well that depends on how much people actually care about equipment. I think it's likely you're correct but if this game ends up being a PvP game with a MMO tacked on to get freemium players in through the front door, the long-term value of gear might be very little. If it turns out more like WoW with a deep and long-term experience that people really get into then Dungeon Crawler's a much better prospect. Basically people know what they're getting with pro player. DC is probably a better deal but is more of a gamble. edit: for some reason I forgot about the added year of free draft in this post Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 00:30 on May 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 23:07
|
|
|
Also, there's a poll going on on their forums on whether or not they should include an exclusive card with a t-shirt add-on.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 23:07
|
|
|
Cory's said in another thread that he probably won't be doing that - about 35% of the poll responses are that it would be a bad idea, and it seems like every second poster in the thread is pointing out that international backers exist. The T-shirt add-on is almost certainly happening regardless though, and there's been some talk about having an exclusive sleeve instead of a card.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 23:11
|
|
|
Adar posted:Time is money, though. I'm not planning on deeply caring about auction bux (let's not forget I just spent a few posts saying it might be a Bad Idea) but if I'm going to put down $250 for a game, at the very least, I don't want to spend any more afterwards. With DC I can easily do that if the PvE is any good, because my loot will pay for boosters and then some (and what's more, the account itself only gets more valuable every expansion). With Pro Player, I get one entry into a tournament I'm not planning on winning and one draft per week a year from now, but then have to pay for all the other drafts. The only way this is a good trade is if the PvE is awful. It's sort of amusing to me that Pro Player is sold out given how much better DC will be in almost every case. One thing I overlooked in my previous post was the fact that a lot of people are stacking tiers. So, if you have a Grand King, the only $250 tiers that are at all meaningful to stack are Collector and Pro. This could explain part of the popularity. I know that that was my thinking in adding a Pro tier onto my Grand King pledge. I like to draft, and I'm going to want to continue to do it. I've got the cash to blow now courtesy of eBaying some other nerd stuff, and I'd rather drop a lump some now as opposed to buying the drafts individually. Ignore all the other rewards from the tier, and assuming I lose every single game of every draft, the drafts will pay for themselves in 9 months.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 23:14
|
|
|
Many, many people in the thread are talking about sleeves, yeah.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2013 23:15
|
|
|
Stormgale posted:If it isn't too much trouble I am just curious, I mean considering buff's can be permanent now it kind of takes a pin out of control's cap, harder to get value when the buff stays even if it is bounced or destroyed etc I am curious what options they have. Again, personal opinion here since I'm no game designer, but I think that something that fans of WoWTCG don't recognize about its engine is that the games were too consistent. You can play your 10 drop every single game on turn 10 if you'd like. There isn't a lot of tension there. So, the HEX engine does some work in that space. As Amante pointed out, there are a lot of things that HEX can do in the digital space in allowing you to play control decks without using some other typical lynchpins like "land destruction" or something like 12 hard counters. Clearly there's a time and place for effects like that, though. There's just a balance in the quantity that's right for the format. But our team definitely recognizes that control decks are important to a healthy format and a game can't just be a bunch of 2/1s running past each other. I am not the person who answers the personal messages. That's Kyle, the game's producer. I wish I was able to interact more with the community on a 1-to-1 basis. I do tweet, though, and hopefully when I have time I can dedicate some resources into building that up. And then all the HEX fans will be be subject to my tweets about games as well as appreciating this Adventure Time marathon, pics of dogs I dog-sit, my frustration with the LA Clippers, shots of limited sneakers I buy, and pics of me with a bunch of washed-up eSports personalities. Compelling content, I know. Some Numbers posted:I have a few questions that are nagging me. 1 - Constructed - minimum 60; limited - minimum 40 2 - Yeah, that's probably a place the team will go to. It's just logical. 3 - Don't have a specific date yet. 4 - No idea, but we do have some effects like Orson's Dream. Karnegal posted:Awesome to have you in the thread. My question is a bit different, but as someone who is more familiar with the game than any of us, is there anything you'd like to see in the OP that would better represent the game? Thanks for creating this thread. You're awesome! I like that you note Epic Spell Wars. I think that's our best board game. DC Deckbuilding is also fun, but that game is a portal to get people who mostly aren't interested in board games and introduce them to something light and fun. The race you choose is an aesthetic choice right now, but there are systems that we could potentially put in place that would drive you to one or another. I would add a part about champions and explain how they work like WoWTCG, except no things like class restrictions. You gain charges by playing resources or there are some cards, like Charge Bot, that will charge your hero. In PVE< you'll level up your champion (or mercenary). In PVP, everyone chooses from a general pool of champions. http://hextcg.com/game/champion/ I would also embed the socket gem image on this page: http://hextcg.com/socketed-cards/ I think sockets are amazing and the way people can customize their cards/decks is going to blow people's minds. It's sad-funny that people just assumed we'd jam them for 99 cents for gems. The mobile game company model of throw $50,000 at a game, see if it works and if it does, bilk the customer for every penny possible sure has people on guard. Unfortunate. Zonekeeper posted:White letters on a dark background is supposed to cause less eye strain when reading text on a monitor. Contrast is a good thing when legibility is an issue, so that's not it. I usually have to zoom in to read a card when playing DOTP, so it's not limited to Hex's card design. It's just an issue that comes with a DOTP-style UI - things are shrunk down and displayed at an angle, so they're going to be hard to read regardless. For new players, you'll be able to easily zoom in on the card and everything's legible. For experienced TCG players, most people internalize how cards work and skim boards by recognizing card art. A bunch of my pro Magic friends (sick brag, I know) came in, took a look at HEX, and gave very valuable feedback on the UI, so we'll be incorporating their feedback into the UI as we move closer to an alpha version. I also think it's important to eventually incorporate multiple ways to broadcast a game, both in-client and out, and in-client would allow a lot of functionality in terms of mouseovers and reading cards. Korak posted:What I don't understand is, why not just have a a thing called X Block where you will always play against the same cards of that set. So if you love X Block, you can keep playing it as long as you can find other players that like that block. You could have a block where people vote on the cards they want to see in the block. You can battle anybody at any time for free. We have to keep things fresh in order to battle fatigue and also give people the depth they expect in a TCG, but you're more than free to battle anyone at any time. As far as rotation or bringing back formats or anything like that, we don't have the answers to that question right now. Zonekeeper I think put it best in that we'll want to see how things shake out more before we start making those decisions. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Am I correct in thinking that "destroy" and "bury" on the card descriptions mean the same thing, while "Void" means "remove from game" ? Yes. Grim posted:With the combination of Kickstarter and PayPal, I assume if a slot opens up on a Pro / Grand King that it wouldn't have enough time to go up on the Hex webpage list for PayPal pledges - so the only way to grab it would be to make multiple kickstarter accounts if you already have a tier you want to keep hold of? Yes. Overall, I think HEX's biggest asset is being a digital TCG that feels like a video game instead of a paper product with a digital version. A friend of mine who works on another digital card game mentioned that there are so many games coming into this space, but the companies are investor-funded projects run by psychologists and MBAs. They don't have TCG developers or designers on staff. It's a very niche skill that will grow over time, but right now it's much easier to find a level designer than a TCG designer. My buddy would be playing these games and eventually beat whatever the game asked him to and his reward card would be a card that's worse than every card he received along the way, as well as every card in his original deck. Things like that just don't happen when you have experienced designers and developers on staff. It's an intangible, but people playing card battle games or the like are going to try HEX and just feel that this is simply on another level. Ok, I hope I got everyone. If I missed you, feel free to repost. Thanks for all the questions!
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 01:42
|
|
|
I really appreciate you answering our questions. However, you slightly misinterpreted one of my questions. How many copies of the same card will be allowed? Can I run 4 copies of Extinction or only 3? And as a follow-up to another question, will the starter decks be random or will they be more like preconstructed decks? Some Numbers fucked around with this message at 01:53 on May 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 01:49
|
|
|
Some Numbers posted:I really appreciate you answering our questions. However, you slightly misinterpreted one of my questions. How many copies of the same card will be allowed? Can I run 4 copies of Extinction or only 3? Considering the highest tiers give 4 of every card, I assume 4.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 01:53
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure it's four, as mentioned earlier. Edit: Ninjas!
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 01:56
|
|
|
Zonekeeper posted:Considering the highest tiers give 4 of every card, I assume 4. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 01:59
|
|
|
Some Numbers posted:I really appreciate you answering our questions. However, you slightly misinterpreted one of my questions. How many copies of the same card will be allowed? Can I run 4 copies of Extinction or only 3? Sorry about that. You're allowed 4 copies of a card. The decks will be pre-constructed decks built around a theme.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 02:02
|
|
|
Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions!
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 02:08
|
|
|
Obviously there are different cards tagged as being PvP or PvE, but are there 2 whole sets? One PvP, one PvE? Or is it that most PvE Cards can be used in PvP, with some designated cards like the mercenaries being PvE only?
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 02:33
|
|
|
HotBobaloo posted:Obviously there are different cards tagged as being PvP or PvE, but are there 2 whole sets? One PvP, one PvE? Or is it that most PvE Cards can be used in PvP, with some designated cards like the mercenaries being PvE only? They answered that in the kickstarter comments at some point. Two complete sets. More than 600 total cards.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 02:35
|
|
|
Are there any PVP exclusive cards? I got the impression that there are PVE exclusive cards, but the other cards could be used in both PVP and PVE, as evidenced by the existence of equipment for non-exclusive cards. If there are exclusives for both sides, how will they be distributed? PVE boosters and PVP boosters?
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 02:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 10:17 |
|
|
King Burgundy posted:They answered that in the kickstarter comments at some point. Two complete sets. More than 600 total cards. So the PvE card are "created" by doing quests and beating bosses, and PvP cards are from packs and winning tournaments only? I'm already in at King level, I'm trying to decide if it is worth it to upgrade to either Collector(PvP) or Dungeon Crawler(PvE).
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2013 02:56
|
|