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 Wizardry is the granddaddy of RPGs, both computer and console. Sure, Ultima was influential too, but while Richard Garriot was dabbling in weird progression systems and spaceship dogfights in Ultima 1 and 2, the Wizardry series was laying out the mechanics that would become the foundation of the genre. JRPGs as we know it would probably not exist either without Wizardry, as it was the primary (though not only) inspiration behind Dragon Quest, the game that kickstarted RPG mania in that country. There haven't been a lot of Wizardry games recently though. Us geriatric old farts that grew up on the original Llylgamyn games will remember them all fondly, but the last official one that was released was in 2001, and the one before that in 1992! They still all hold up today, more than 30 years after they were first released. (Yes, even Wizardry 1 dammit, I will go to my grave claiming that!) What makes a Wizardry? At its heart, Wizardry is a party-based, first-person dungeon crawler. Mechanics and settings may change, but this constant remains the same. In all of them you create a party of multiple races and classes and delve into some sort of monster-infested dungeon or wilderness to complete some sort of quest. There are a few common other themes shared by most Wizardry games:
The Grand List of Wizardries There's plenty of choice when it comes to Wizardries--there are over 30 of them! They can be divided into two groups, the canonical games, and the Japanese games. Below is an attempt to cover all of them, not counting spinoffs or homages like Wizardry Nemesis or Wizards and Warriors. First Canonical Trilogy: The Llylgamyn Trilogy (plus Wizardry 4 & 5) This is the first trilogy of Wizardry games, originally written for the Apple II by Andrew Greenberg and Robert Woodhead in the early 1980s when they were in college. (How many big game series got a start as college projects?) All three share the same engine and basic gameplay elements, but lay the foundation for not only the entire series, but a lot of the entire genre of RPGs. Wizardry 1: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981) PGotMO was a straight-up dungeon crawl and very simple by today's standards. (not suprising for a game released in 1981) Sent on a quest by the Mad Overlord Trebor, you create a typical party of adventurers in town, crawl to the bottom of the dungeon, kill the evil wizard Werdna and take his amulet to win. Wizardry 2: Knight of Diamonds (1982) KoD is really more of an expansion pack to to the original. Mechanically it isn't any different than the first, except with tougher monsters. You have to explore a 6-level dungeon to collect pieces of the Knight of Diamonds' armor. Importing parties from Wizardry 1 was a prerequisite for the original game (you'd get murdered if you didn't) but later ports to other platforms rebalanced it so you could start fresh with no problem. Wizardry 3: Legacy of Llylgamyn (1983) LoL is more of a true sequel to Wizardry 1; even imported parties start back at level 1. It's another 6-level dungeon like Wizardry 2, though it's divided into "good" and "evil" areas where characters of opposing alignments aren't allowed in. This forced the player to either make separate "good" and "evil" parties, or grind for friendly monsters to attempt to alignment-change mid-game. The plot revolves around climbing a volcano to seek out the Orb of Earithin from a dragon. Wizardry 4: Return of Werdna (1987) Wizardry 4 is the most unorthodox game of the series, most notable for its ridiculously punishing difficulty level. Even the box advertised this fact. It's often called "the Tomb of Horrors of CRPGs" and is arguably one of, if not the hardest CRPG ever made. It's still a good game, but absolutely requires the right mindset to play. In Wizardry 4, You're cast into the role of Werdna, the "big bad" of Wizardry 1, now imprisoned in a cell deep below the earth. You basically play the role of a typical random encounter in an ordinary RPG, summoning groups of monsters (who you can't directly control) to fight parties of adventurers. There is little to gain from fighting them though--there are no experience points and the overwhelming majority of their loot is useless since you're a wizard that can't equip any of it. As a fragile wizard stripped of all his powers even the lowest of adventurers can kill you easily. Oh, and the ghost of Trebor, the Mad Overlord from the first game, is constantly chasing you and will instantly kill you if he moves onto the same tile as you. Did I mention this all happens in real-time? Have fun! On top of that, the dungeon design is downright sadistic. Dark zones, teleporters, land-mines, shifting walls--the game is rife with gently caress-you dungeon design from the start to the finish. Puzzles are equally as evil, and require a good bit of extra-game knowledge, both from previous Wizardry games and topics that have nothing to do with any of them. How's your knowledge of the Kabbalah? Wizardry 5: Heart of the Maelstrom (1988) Wizardry 5 goes back to the formula of Wizardry 1-3, but much larger. The plot is still fairly basic. (find an evil sorceress/goddess/whatever at the bottom of the dungeon and kill her to stop her from doing Bad Stuff) Dungeon levels are no longer limited to 20x20 square fields and are bigger and more complicated. NPCs and ranged weapons are introduced. It's probably the best of the "old style" official Wizardries. Wizardry V is the first Wizardry that David W. Bradley (who would go on to take over the series) helped author. Also Wizardry V is considered the definitive Wizardry in Japan, and most of the Japan-only Wizardries are patterned after it. Second Canonical Trilogy: The Cosmic Circle Trilogy Wizardry 6-8 changed up the formula of the game. A lot. This trilogy is generally considered the pinnacle of the series in the West. (It's not so popular in Japan, since the old formula was really popular and the initial translations/ports were really poorly done) The Wizardry 6-8 trilogy revolves around divine artifacts used by the gods to create the world, and various mortals fighting to gain control of them. It also introduces some sci-fi elements to the series. A lot of old mainstays are gone. There is no longer a central town with shops and an inn separate from the dungeon--you're dumped straight into the world and left to fend for yourself. No longer can you create an enormous roster of characters to pick and choose from as you see fit--you create a party of 6 and are stuck with it for the whole game. A slew of new races and classes are introduced, along with a skill system--nearly every action in the game depends on your skills, which can be improved with use or during level-ups. 6 and 7 also have a very flexible class-changing system somewhat similar to the earlier Wizardries, which in combination with the skill system allow for the creation of some very versatile parties. Wizardry 8 has a class-change system too, but it's quite restricted and not as useful as 6/7. Wizardry 6: Bane of the Cosmic Forge (1990) Wizardry 6 is the last game to take place in Llylgamyn, the world of the first 5 Wizardries. Generations after the events of Wizardry 5, the King of Llylgamyn got his hands on the Cosmic Forge, a magic pen. Anything written with the Cosmic Forge becomes reality--but the King and his wizard came to blows over it in his castle. You play a party of characters that explores the now-ruined castle a century later. Wizardry 6 has not aged very well--it's somewhat ugly and its interface is clunky, and there are some pretty nasty bugs, such as spells that target all enemies not working. It's also quite hard, with very few places to buy equipment and not a lot of opportunities to heal up injured parties. It's still a very good game though and worth playing if you can look past its failings. Wizardry 6 also has multiple endings; at the end of the game you can import your party into Wizardry 7 with some of their levels and equipment, and how you start the game in Wizardry 7 depends on how you ended Wizardry 6. Wizardry 7: Crusaders of the Dark Savant (1992, "Gold" version in 1996) Wizardry 7 departs from Llylgamyn quite literally as at the end of Wizardry 6 the party finds itself on a spaceship bound for the planet of Guardia, to seek out another divine artifact connected to the Cosmic Forge, called the Astral Dominae. Guardia is populated by four native races with their own internal problems--the Gorn, the Munk, the Dane, and the Rattkin--and there are two advanced alien races, the T'Rang and the Umpani, who also have arrived on the planet in search of the Astral Dominae. The T'Rang in particular are accompanied by an evil warlord called the Dark Savant. There's also a mysterious high-tech race called the Helazoid poking about, though it's not sure if they're native to the planet. You have to find the Astral Dominae first, before anyone else. Wizardry 7 is by far the largest Wizardry game, and considered by many (myself included) to be the pinnacle of the series. All of the new gameplay elements introduced in Bane are refined and the interface much improved. In addition, the many competing races add an element of competition to the game--there are a dozen or so NPCs of each of the seven races wandering about, all seeking the same quest items you are. If they find them first, you'll have to track them down and use your Diplomacy skill to befriend them, and they might sell the items for you. Or you can (attempt to) kill them. The NPCs will band together and/or fight amongst themselves too. There's also a fair amount of bonus content in Wizardry 7, including the infamous Tomb of Gorrors with a menagerie of superbosses to fight. There are also four endings, each of which dictate the start of Wizardry 8 if you import your party. There are two versions of Wizardry 7--the original DOS edition and the Windows/Mac "Gold" edition. The Gold edition has decent voicework and improved presentation, but suffers from some crippling bugs that weren't present in the DOS version, so the DOS version is generally preferred. Wizardry 8 At the end of Wizardry 7, no matter what you do the evil Dark Savant will get the Astral Dominae. (except for the bad ending in which you're teleported into oblivion) In Wizardry 8, you chase after him to the planet Dominus. The T'rang and Umpani both chase after him, and somehow the Rattkin managed to find their way to the planet too. If the Dark Savant attains the Chaos Moliri and the Destinae Dominus in addition to the Astral Dominae, he will be able to ascend to the Cosmic Circle and your job is to prevent that. (and get there first) The swan song of the official Wizardry series, Wizardry 8 is possibly the most popular entry in the series. This may be partially due to the fact that it's the only canonical Wizardry game to have been released in the past 20 years so it's the only one a lot of people even remember. Wizardry 8 changes up a lot of mechanics from 6 and 7. Combat is no longer done in the traditional Wizardry fashion, with enemies appearing on the world map and getting into combat with you once they notice you. Party formation and positioning is also important. The races and classes are given a little bit more individuality than before (and a new class, the Gadgeteer, is introduced) at the expense of nerfing the class change system hard. The game world is substantially smaller than Crusaders, but well-designed. It also has a lot of modern refinements lacking in the earlier installments, and a toned-down difficulty level. Wizardry 8 came out WAY later than 7, such that for a long time it was thought to be vaporware. Many rumors abounded, including quite a good deal from perennial Usenet nutcase and former Sir-Tech employee Cleve Blakemore. (They're good for at least their amusement value, such as bizarre stories of flamboyantly gay directors forcing employees to model ambulatory anuses and penises as in-game enemies) Recently design documents from a scrapped initial version of Wizardry 8 were discovered and sold at auction, so we may have better information about it some time soon. Wizardry in Japan This warrants its own section, as Wizardry was (and is) huge in Japan, and kickstarted the JRPG genre in a lot of respects, as the developer of the original Dragon Quest, Yuji Horii, was an enormous Wizardry fan and it was a huge inspiration to that game. (Horii even stuck Wizardry references in games he worked on prior to DQ) The original developers of Wizardry also had a direct hand in porting some of the Wizardry games to Japan. (Robert Woodhead is also apparently something of an otaku, and left Sir-Tech to start an anime company in the 80s.) Though Wizardry has mostly died in the West, it lives on in Japan, and has seen almost two dozen Japan-only Wizardry releases. I haven't played them all so I'll briefly go over each of the series as best I can: Wizardry Gaiden series Mostly made by ASCII, there are a grand total of 7 Wizardry Gaidens. (Maybe more, I'm not sure if Wizardry Summoner or Wizardry Chronicle count) Most are console-exclusive; the first three were Game Boy games, the fourth was a Super Famicom game, the fifth was a Playstation game, and the final two were PC games. (Although one of them, Prisoners of the Battles, was recently re- released on iOS) They vary in quality and setting--some are in Llylgamyn, at least one is in a mideastern-themed world, and another is in a Japanese-themed world. They're mostly patterned after Wizardry 5, but a few even have some of the 6-8 elements retrofitted in, such as the addition of Psionic and Alchemist spells/classes, and the introduction of races like Felpurrs and Mooks. One Wizardry Gaiden, 5 Ordeals, offers new scenarios as DLC and a built-in Wizardry Construction Kit. Llylgamyn Saga and New Age of Llylgamyn Llylgamyn Saga is a remake of Wizardry 1-3, and New Age is a remake of Wizardry 4 and 5, for Windows and Playstaion. They're extremely high-quality remakes with the addition of modern conveniences like automapping and bestiaries/treasure records. New Age of Llylgamyn also offers an "arrange" version of Wizardry IV, which fleshes out the story a lot and allegedly makes it easier. (though to be honest I actually think it makes it harder) It also adds a secret ending where Werdna is forced to marry The Sorn, the boss of Wizardry 5. Unfortunately, like most of the Windows Wizardries, the Windows versions are poorly programmed and both are nigh-impossible to get working correctly on modern OSes and hardware. Wizardry Empire series Made by Starfish, Wizardry Empire was released for Gameboy (1), PS1, (1 & 2) Windows (2) and PS2. (3) Wizardry Empire is also very similar to Wizardry 5, but with some later retrofits such as Alchemist/Psionic spells. It also focuses on a "racial preference" system where certain races do and/or don't get along in the same party, affecting each other's morale and their stats, and a resistance system based on not elements but the types of enemies you're facing. Though not the most popular of Wizardry series in Japan, I like it a lot, and Wizardry Empire 2 is to date the only Windows Wizardry I've played that actually functions correctly on modern hardware and OSes. Busin: Wizardry Alternative series Busin: Wizardry Alternative is notable because it's one of the only Japanese Wizardry series to have made it across the Pacific, as Wizardry: Tales of the Forsaken Land. Wizardry Alternative is a mix of traditional Wizardry and JRPG. Its main "gimmick" is the concept of party loyalty, which allows you to perform "Allied Actions" in battle, special powerful actions that combine the efforts of multiple party members to let you do things you normally couldn't. Also it has an unusual magic creation system (creating spells from enemy body parts) and a dark storyline. Wizardry Alternative got a vastly improved prequel, Busin 0: Wizardry Alternative Neo. It has more classes and Allied Actions, a much more convenient spell creation system, a bigger and more fleshed-out dungeon, a hidden talent system, a personality system, an improved interface, a darker (and better) story, and a brutal (but fun) post-game dungeon. Unfortunately Busin 0 never got translated, but it's one of the best Wizardry titles out there. Wizardry XTH series Wizardry set in a high school of all things, with a heavy dose of anime and JRPG. Only barely resembles a Wizardry game. Skip it. Wizardry Renaissance Wizardry Renaissance is the newest installment of Wizardry. Since the death of Sir-Tech Japanese Wizardry releases have been all over the map; Wizardry Renaissance is an attempt by multiple Japanese companies to consolidate them. They're all pretty much console or mobile phone exclusives, with the exception of Wizardry Online (a standard MMO) and Labyrinth of Lost Souls. (which got an iOS release) I've only played Labyrinth of Lost Souls, but it mostly resembles Wizardry 1-3, with the addition of a few special abilities for certain characters. It's not nearly as impressive as even the Gaidens or the Empires IMO. Labyrinth of Lost Souls is notable for getting released in English though. OK, so how do I get these games? Unless you can speak Japanese, you'll want to start with the canonical Wizardries. Even if you can speak Japanese, you'll want to start with the canonical Wizardries since they're better. Finding them is not easy. The last time the first four were released was more than a decade ago in the form of the Ultimate Wizardry Archives. Which is drat near impossible to find nowadays and you'll have to pay an arm and a leg for. Sadly, if you want to play them legally, this is your best bet. Wizardry 5 came out on the Super Nintendo, and can be found for less. It's not the best version of the game, but is still worth scouring for. Wizardry 6-8 are available for sale at GOG.com! Given that they are probably the best Wizardries you should go and buy them right now! Wizardry 6 & 7 for $5.99 Wizardry 8 for $9.99 If you want a Japanese Wizardry...that's harder. You can do a search on Rakuten in their console games or PC software categories I guess. Good luck.  Also worth mentioning: Cosmic Forge. This is an absolutely amazing editor for Wizardry 6, 7, and 8. Not a save game editor, but will allow you to see EVERYTHING about how the game works, or edit the game world if you want. Highly recommended for anyone that wants to tinker. So get out your graph paper and DosBOX, kiddies, and let's talk about (and play) some Wizardry! Frequently Asked Questions What should I use as a party for Wizardry 8 for the first time? quote:Ask 5 people and you'll get 5 different suggestions. It's less important which classes you take and more what roles you have filled. An ideal party will have: Genpei Turtle fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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May 25, 2013 03:09
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Labyrinth of Lost Souls is also on Playstation Network for, like fifteen dollars or so, making it easier than most to acquire. It's not a great game, hell it's not even 15 bucks good, but if you're starved for first-person dungeoneering, it's better than some. Supposedly GOG 'fixed' Wizardry Gold. Is there any real definite word on what, if anything was fixed?
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May 25, 2013 03:55
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One of these days I'll pop open my boxed copy of Wizardry Gaiden 1... when someone manages to write a translation guide for it.  At least the box art is cool, and yes, I am a sucker for raised color reliefs. 
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May 25, 2013 04:08
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iastudent posted:One of these days I'll pop open my boxed copy of Wizardry Gaiden 1... when someone manages to write a translation guide for it. Honestly Gaiden 1 is simple enough that you could probably do it without a translation guide. Once you figure out what the various commands do through trial and error it's about as straightforward as they come. This page while all in Japanese, obviously, has all the information about the game you'll need--with a combination of Google translate and cross-referencing the stuff you see onscreen with what's on that page, you could probably get by with little difficulty. Genpei Turtle fucked around with this message at 04:44 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 04:24
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Genpei, thank you for starting this thread. However, I had no trouble getting Llylgamyn Saga to run on Windows 7 Ultimate with the 110 patch and the translation patch. The text looks goofy in spots and it is not overall nearly as pretty as the PSX version, but it has been perfectly stable. I had no problem with New Age either, but that is still largely in Japanese as I know of no translation patch. Getting ahold of the games themselves is a huge problem, but in the interest of honesty and fairness I felt that I should share my experience. Unlike a lot of old-school gamers, I hate the idea of having to draw my own maps, so auto-map is basically a necessity for me.
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May 25, 2013 04:27
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Genpei Turtle posted:Honestly Gaiden 1 is simple enough that you could probably do it without a translation guide. Once you figure out what the various commands do through trial and error it's about as straightforward as they come. This page while all in Japanese, obviously, has all the information about the game you'll need--with a combination of Google translate and cross-referencing the stuff you see onscreen with what's on that page, you could probably get by with little difficulty. Your link goes to a go.com placeholder. 
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May 25, 2013 04:29
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iastudent posted:Your link goes to a go.com placeholder. Huh, that's weird. http: //infoseek_rip.g.ribbon.to/hkaityo.hp.infoseek.co.jp/wiz/ Same link, just doesn't work in a link tag. JustJeff posted:Genpei, thank you for starting this thread. However, I had no trouble getting Llylgamyn Saga to run on Windows 7 Ultimate with the 110 patch and the translation patch. The text looks goofy in spots and it is not overall nearly as pretty as the PSX version, but it has been perfectly stable. I had no problem with New Age either, but that is still largely in Japanese as I know of no translation patch. Interesting, I've had major problems getting it to work correctly consistently, with lots of CTDs. And the dungeons all look like this: (imagine that orange stuff flashing wildly)  I read somewhere when looking for solutions that it has problems with 64-bit OSes. If you can get NoAL to work though, you can play Wizardry 4 classic and 5 in English. Just set everything you see to 英語 in the options when you see it. There's some detail text (like description of items that's not normally available in the originals) that won't be translated but the rest should be the same. Genpei Turtle fucked around with this message at 04:55 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 04:44
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Has there been any word or hint that the earlier Wizardry games would be released on GOG.com? I never really got a chance to play many PC games from the 80s, but I'm always curious about them. About the only games I played from that area were the Zork titles, Rogue, and the top-down Castle Wolfenstein.
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May 25, 2013 04:55
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Great OP. Currently I am playing Wizardry 8, my party just hit level 10. By far my favorite Wizardry though, is 7 (the DOS version). I have probably spent 500 hours on that game alone, and only finished it twice. To add to the general availability of old Wizardrys, there is also a translation patch for Wizardry 1-3 The Story of Llylgamyn on SNES. Patch available here: http://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=wizardry Generally the console versions of the classic games have better graphics and sound than any of the PC versions. EDIT: If you do pick up Wizardry 8 from GOG, make sure at the very least to get the 1.2.6 unofficial patch and Wiz8Fast. The former fixes bugs, and the latter makes the enemies do the movement part of their combat phase as fast as you want to, instead of slowly ambling around. Crimson Harvest fucked around with this message at 05:01 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 04:59
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Genpei Turtle posted:Huh, that's weird. Now it works. Think I'll need to finally give this a go during the 3-day weekend.
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May 25, 2013 04:59
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Genpei Turtle posted:Huh, that's weird. Oh, okay, I thought that that screen was actually the game and I needed to cast a light spell or something. I just tried booting the game on my XP virtual machine and, while those graphical problems were gone, the text is so hosed up that I cannot begin to navigate. 64-bit OS's, in my experience, usually just keep 16-bit programs from running in the first place, but I still would not be surprised if that is the reason why it is so borked. So, my apologies for that, but I have put several hours into Saga over the last few days and I have had no issues whatsoever after applying the 110 patch and the translation patch. Edit: Do you know how to resize the game to full screen? The usual commands are not working and full-screen might help make the text more readable JustJeff88 fucked around with this message at 05:12 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 05:09
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I've been having problems getting my GoG copy of Wizardry 7 rolling. When I click the icon, the little menu pops up asking me what resolution I'd like. Anything other than the current (tiny window) resolution puts my computer into an unresponsive black screen, forcing me to reboot. I tried to put it into Windows XP compatibility. That did nothing. I'm generally terrible at DoSBox anything, which is why I've enjoyed GoG taking the work out of it. Nevertheless, I can't get this one going. Any thoughts?
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May 25, 2013 05:11
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Download the DOS version from the 'Extras' list in your account. Play that instead 
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May 25, 2013 05:27
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I love games that allow me to import characters from one games to the next. Is there anything that I need to look out for if I want to play the same party from Wizardry 6-8? What is a solid party for that long trek?
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May 25, 2013 05:35
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Crimson Harvest posted:Download the DOS version from the 'Extras' list in your account. Play that instead That worked! How dumb!
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May 25, 2013 05:36
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Just read an important post on the GOG forums. I was having problems starting the GOG version of Wizardry 8, in that it wouldn't launch at all. The fix for this is to install the game to C:\Wiz8. That fixed it for me, thanks to the random GOG user who figured it out.
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May 25, 2013 05:50
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For those of you who are having trouble running the Gog.com version of Wizardry 8, try installing it to C:\Wiz8 instead of the default directory. I had trouble running it until I uninstalled and reinstalled to that directory. So far I am having fun with it, I forgot how awesome and hilarious the voice acting is. My Chaotic Hobbit Rouge is a stab-happy little psychopath. 
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May 25, 2013 05:58
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Wizardry 8 is an amazing game and dripping with so much personality through your voice and portrait choices of your party that it has unironically made me instantly bored with most RPGs I try to play recently. None of them come close to stacking up to any part of wiz8.
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May 25, 2013 06:01
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Can anyone make me a custom portrait for Wizardry 8? I have been trying to use the Wizardry 8 Portrait Editor to do this, but it doesn't seem to be outputting the right files, or I just don't understand how to use it. I have the .TGA files all ready to go if anyone wants to take a stab at it. Just replace like, a female Dwarf face with it. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3433526/Gaben%20Portrait.7z The transparent image is for replacing all the animation frames, cause I don't want to deal with that.
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May 25, 2013 07:22
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Wiz 8 chat: I'm starting my first playthrough and have so far made a Lord, Samurai, Gadgeteer, Bishop, and Ranger, need a sixth suggestion to fill in any gaps in my party. I want something that's fun or interesting to play and will let me get the most out of what the game has to offer. I was thinking Ninja, but my concern is that he takes a lot to build and I apparently have a lot of involved classes in my party already. Should I just roll a Rogue for the thievery opportunities?
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May 25, 2013 10:06
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moot the hopple posted:Wiz 8 chat: I'm starting my first playthrough and have so far made a Lord, Samurai, Gadgeteer, Bishop, and Ranger, need a sixth suggestion to fill in any gaps in my party. I want something that's fun or interesting to play and will let me get the most out of what the game has to offer. I was thinking Ninja, but my concern is that he takes a lot to build and I apparently have a lot of involved classes in my party already. Should I just roll a Rogue for the thievery opportunities? Yeah you will want a rogue or someone who can rogue things. You'll miss out on a lot of early game treasures if you start a ninja. The thing about wizardry 8 is, there are too many cool classes. Making your first party is a string of difficult choices. Protip: The most powerful weapon in the game can only be equipped by a fairy ninja.
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May 25, 2013 10:18
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Gazaar posted:Wizardry 8 is an amazing game and dripping with so much personality through your voice and portrait choices of your party that it has unironically made me instantly bored with most RPGs I try to play recently. None of them come close to stacking up to any part of wiz8. I am always consistently surprised when my parade of stereotypes says anything that isn't prompted by something like a battle. They space it out/spread it out just far enough that you don't really have a chance to get sick of it like you really think you would. Does every voice set have a unique reaction for every possible circumstance or can you pick a lovely set and wind up with a party that barely talks during events because only certain voices can comment on certain things?
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May 25, 2013 10:51
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moot the hopple posted:Wiz 8 chat: I'm starting my first playthrough and have so far made a Lord, Samurai, Gadgeteer, Bishop, and Ranger, need a sixth suggestion to fill in any gaps in my party. I want something that's fun or interesting to play and will let me get the most out of what the game has to offer. I was thinking Ninja, but my concern is that he takes a lot to build and I apparently have a lot of involved classes in my party already. Should I just roll a Rogue for the thievery opportunities? The gadgeteer can already pick locks and unlock traps, and pickpocket isnt something you really need. Ninja is a good choice and while the rogue isnt as good in the long run it can do insane amounts of damage. Tyskil posted:I am always consistently surprised when my parade of stereotypes says anything that isn't prompted by something like a battle. They space it out/spread it out just far enough that you don't really have a chance to get sick of it like you really think you would. Does every voice set have a unique reaction for every possible circumstance or can you pick a lovely set and wind up with a party that barely talks during events because only certain voices can comment on certain things? Not every voice has a comment for every event, although their are some events that every voice has a comment for (the start of the game, pciking up one of the three artifacts and meeting the Savant)
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May 25, 2013 12:15
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Genpei Turtle posted:There are two versions of Wizardry 7--the original DOS edition and the Windows/Mac "Gold" edition. The Gold edition has decent voicework and improved presentation, but suffers from some crippling bugs that weren't present in the DOS version, so the DOS version is generally preferred. What crippling bugs would they be? Are they common, and will they break the game?
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May 25, 2013 12:43
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Great OP. Does anyone have any tips for taking a party from Wizardry 6-8? I'm thinking of using lots of class switching to get some good prestige classes since all of them are not available in 6. I should be OK, through that one because I've finished Bane before, but Crusaders has always been tough for me. Especially tracking down NPCs.
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May 25, 2013 12:46
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THE BAR posted:What crippling bugs would they be? Are they common, and will they break the game? The big one is that Diplomacy is broken. When you encounter NPCs at first they don't want to talk to you and you have to use your Diplomacy skill to get in good with them. In Wizardry Gold you Diplomacy doesn't work so you won't ever be able to do this. You can theoretically finish the game without diplomacy, but if an NPC gets to a quest item before you do (it's almost guaranteed to happen at least once) you won't be able to barter for it to get it back. I guess you could try killing them, but that usually requires an extremely high-level party.
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May 25, 2013 15:04
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Genpei Turtle posted:The big one is that Diplomacy is broken. When you encounter NPCs at first they don't want to talk to you and you have to use your Diplomacy skill to get in good with them. In Wizardry Gold you Diplomacy doesn't work so you won't ever be able to do this. You can theoretically finish the game without diplomacy, but if an NPC gets to a quest item before you do (it's almost guaranteed to happen at least once) you won't be able to barter for it to get it back. I guess you could try killing them, but that usually requires an extremely high-level party. That sounds downright depressing, as the voice acting isn't half bad! What's also depressing is how Might and Magic VI was supposed to have a similar system with rival bands of heroes, and it works out so well in this!
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May 25, 2013 19:36
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This is an ace wizardry video that appeared on the GoG guys youtube page. I'm really surprised and happy about how much love this release has gotten on this website and theirs since it's one I've been hoping for since they started.
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May 25, 2013 20:53
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THE BAR posted:That sounds downright depressing, as the voice acting isn't half bad! Well, in the long run the two versions are not that dissimilar, so if you really wanted to play Gold you wouldn't miss all that much. If an NPC runs off with a map you need you can always cheat it into your inventory with a save editor too. Also if you're playing the GOG version, maybe some of those previous bugs are fixed, since they often are in GOG releases. It's more that the lack of Diplomacy removes a fun element of the game. A lot of it is just the "game having fun" since NPCs will track each other down and kill each other and/or band together dynamically behind the scenes, but it's only through Diplomacy that you'll learn that Mick the Pick got an item you were after, but then Tracker Rhallick killed him for it, only to then get killed by Ratsputin who was avenging Mick the Pick, and while Ratsputin was on his way to deliver the item to Don Barleone, Rodan Lewarx ambushed and killed him, but then Rodan Lewarx got killed by Shritis T'Rang, who now has the item and is systematically exterminating all the other NPCs while they run for their lives.
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May 25, 2013 21:00
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To be honest, the non-gold version of Wizardry 7 is perfectly playable even by today's standards, and the Gold version outside of the voice acting doesn't really have any major improvements.
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May 25, 2013 21:04
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moot the hopple posted:Wiz 8 chat: I'm starting my first playthrough and have so far made a Lord, Samurai, Gadgeteer, Bishop, and Ranger, need a sixth suggestion to fill in any gaps in my party. I want something that's fun or interesting to play and will let me get the most out of what the game has to offer. I was thinking Ninja, but my concern is that he takes a lot to build and I apparently have a lot of involved classes in my party already. Should I just roll a Rogue for the thievery opportunities? I ran two monks and a lord up front, 2 valks on the flanks, a mage, bard, and psionic in the center. It worked out pretty well, having spear fighters covering the flanks can be pretty clutch. Bard instruments are insane and can cover a lot of buffing bases that you might not hit with your casters.
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May 25, 2013 21:30
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moot the hopple posted:Wiz 8 chat: I'm starting my first playthrough and have so far made a Lord, Samurai, Gadgeteer, Bishop, and Ranger, need a sixth suggestion to fill in any gaps in my party. I want something that's fun or interesting to play and will let me get the most out of what the game has to offer. I was thinking Ninja, but my concern is that he takes a lot to build and I apparently have a lot of involved classes in my party already. Should I just roll a Rogue for the thievery opportunities? That's not a bad party, actually, though rangers are a weak class in my experience. I'd add a Bard to that since they're very, very strong in the early-to-mid game. The Bard and Gadgeteer together will be able to cover your thievery bases. Rogue is ironically enough a tanking high-damage class in Wizardry 8. Add a Bard and replace the Ranger with a Ninja and you have the exact same party I ran with my last time through the game. It was a little weaker in the magic department than I normally use but it worked out well. Actually if you want a Ranger, that's a good class to think about changing a Bard into later in the game. Bards plateau early and they're absolute poo poo at fighting--you'll probably spend most of the game using a bow with them, which segues well into a Ranger job. They'll never be fantastic Rangers, but I've always found Bards to be kind of dead weight by the end of the game so that helps them cover their natural weaknesses a bit.
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May 25, 2013 21:55
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Genpei Turtle posted:Actually if you want a Ranger, that's a good class to think about changing a Bard into later in the game. Bards plateau early and they're absolute poo poo at fighting--you'll probably spend most of the game using a bow with them, which segues well into a Ranger job. They'll never be fantastic Rangers, but I've always found Bards to be kind of dead weight by the end of the game so that helps them cover their natural weaknesses a bit. I still vehemently disagree with you that bards are dead weight in the end game but I do agree that eventually turning the bard into a ranger is a good idea. Instruments can be used by any class as long as they have a certain amount of bard levels which varys by instrument and the required music skill. The highest level instruments are level 18 but honestly youd be fine not leveling up the bard that high and just sticking with the next highest level instruments (level 14) so long as you have 100 in music here is really no reason to have a bard stay a bard past levels 14 or 18 the only thing they get is some (admittedly pretty good) class specific equipment.
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May 25, 2013 22:05
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I wound up with a copy of the Ultimate Wizardry Archives somehow as a gift or something a long time ago. I put it aside and likely lost the majority of the documentation, but a Nowdays I played through the Japanese Wizardry clones on the PSP and PS3, LoLS, Class of Heroes, and Elminage. It's neat how they can all be so different yet still share the same general 'base' of sorts. nftyw fucked around with this message at 22:59 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 22:08
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Genpei Turtle posted:That's not a bad party, actually, though rangers are a weak class in my experience. I'd add a Bard to that since they're very, very strong in the early-to-mid game. The Bard and Gadgeteer together will be able to cover your thievery bases. Rogue is ironically enough a tanking high-damage class in Wizardry 8. I took a Mook Ranger as a concession for a first playthrough since I won't know where everything is hidden and I can't bear missing out on that phat loot. Having literally Chewbecca in a fantasy RPG is alright with me, though. I'm thinking Rogue might actually be good for me because I'm still trying to figure out who's going to fill out my front ranks and flank positions, but you do bring up a concern I have with not having enough magic. Maybe I should throw another caster type into the mix?
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May 25, 2013 22:52
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As far as Wizardry 8 goes, Fighters are fantastic, Rogues are fantastic, Valkyries are fairly versatile, Gadgeteers eventually mod their gun to become insanely powerful and construct gadgets via engineering... I can't really remember too much about the details these days. I do recall the -secret dungeons- having some absolutely random steps that made me think it was just some kind of elaborate April Fool's joke or something. Once I made a party of all Lizardmen. Since int classes were pretty much non-options I wound up with a couple of Priests, who absolutely wrecked poo poo in combat once I got some of the powerful mace weapons. MP regeneration was lousy, but I think I did make one of the lizards a Bard so as to boost regen while camping. It stood as a great contrast to other Priests I'd ran who couldn't fight worth a drat. The boosts you get from race stats and traits really make a difference in the game.
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May 25, 2013 23:05
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Starting a game like this is always the hardest part for me. I get party creation paralysis. Right now for Wizardry 8 I have: Dracon Fighter Human Valkyrie Halfling Bard Elf Mage Mook Ranger Felpurr Alchemist Does that seem okay? I'm most interested in a team that will start out stronger. If I get into the game, I can switch classes about. But I'm aware it can be brutal on the difficulty curve at times and would prefer a softer start. Is having only an Alchemist sufficient in the healing department?
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May 25, 2013 23:09
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That seems like it would be a rather tough start. One of the reasons why bards are amazing is they can get a harp that heals the entire party, which is a spell that I think is exclusive to Priestly types. Of course, starting out, all you'll have is, like, a sleep harp (which is still good, mind you). The bard likely isn't going to do well on the front line though, to the point where you would probably sub the Ranger in. Playing music and fighting in the melee will make them faint from low stamina quickly, and I would like to say that it is very easy to hit an unconscious target for loads of damage. Mage AND Alchemist seems a little much to me. Though of the two... Alchemy is an amazing class that generates free potions (free money) and can, with skill, mix potions to make new potions which can generate a *ton* of money.
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May 25, 2013 23:17
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moot the hopple posted:I took a Mook Ranger as a concession for a first playthrough since I won't know where everything is hidden and I can't bear missing out on that phat loot. Having literally Chewbecca in a fantasy RPG is alright with me, though. I'm thinking Rogue might actually be good for me because I'm still trying to figure out who's going to fill out my front ranks and flank positions, but you do bring up a concern I have with not having enough magic. Maybe I should throw another caster type into the mix? That's a valid concern, though I should probably mention that the Ranger's spotting ability becomes obsolete very quickly. The Detect Secrets spell does the same thing, and your Gadgeteer will be able to make a gadget that will allow you to cast infinite Detect Secrets spells. Until that point so long as you keep Search mode on and proceed slowly you should find everything. If you want another caster, that's an option too. Since you have one Bishop you're free to pick whatever discipline you want for the other. Priest, Mage, or another Bishop is probably best. Also for a first time through you can make use of up to two RPCs in addition to your 6 characters, so take that into consideration. I never run with RPCs any more since they steal XP from my main party, but they're a good choice for a first time through. There are a bunch, but IMO only three worth having--one's a Valkyrie, one's a Monk, and one's a Gadgeteer. The rest have major limitations to where they can go or are otherwise temporary enough that they're more trouble than they're worth. Also the RPC Gadgeteer is not worth taking if you have one of your own. Really though, unless you do a gimmick run with 6 Psionics or something, you can't go wrong when building a party in Wizardry 8. So much of it boils down to play style and personal preference. I like to focus on a party that will eventually be able to steamroll the endgame on the hardest difficulty setting, since I always play on max difficulty out of the gate. To that end I go for party builds that have high returns but might have a harder time in the beginning. Also that means I usually focus on critical hitting classes (since Expert enemies have so much HP) and on buffing rather than debuffing. (since debuffs rarely work on Expert) So I'll prioritize classes like Samurai/Ninja/Gadgeteer over Fighter/Rogue/Bard for that reason, but if, say, you wanted to play on Normal and/or have a more balanced challenge level throughout the whole game, you might want to go the reverse. ed: Bo-Pepper posted:Does that seem okay? I'm most interested in a team that will start out stronger. If I get into the game, I can switch classes about. But I'm aware it can be brutal on the difficulty curve at times and would prefer a softer start. Is having only an Alchemist sufficient in the healing department? If you want a strong early-game party, you'll probably want to ditch the Alchemist for a Priest. An Alchemist is not nearly as good a healer as a Priest. It's nice to have Alchemy so you can mix potions, but your Ranger will eventually be able to do that. Also you might want to consider swapping out your Valkyrie for a Rogue, as they do ungodly amounts of damage and are a great newbie class. I think if you do that you'll have a very solid start for the beginning of the game. Later on you might run into trouble, especially without access to gadgets or Psionic spells, but by then you'll probably be comfortable enough with the game that it won't be much of an issue by the time you get there. Genpei Turtle fucked around with this message at 23:38 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 23:31
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Bo-Pepper posted:Starting a game like this is always the hardest part for me. I get party creation paralysis. You need a divine caster and the Valkyrioe wont cut it in that department if you want and easy early game, swap either the mage or alchy out for a bishop. I generally also like at least one frontlinner that can crit enemies so consider replacing either the fighter or the valk with a monk/samurai/ninja. As an aside I generally dont like mook because they are slow as gently caress but for a ranger its not that bad the boost to senses will help, for rangers you want to get 100 senses as fast as possible. SpRahl fucked around with this message at 23:38 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 23:35
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