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Did your husband contact the bank/foreclosure lawyer on Tuesday and find out whether they're willing to offer you a token payment to vacate the property before the auction? It's really important that the money you set aside for moving into a rental property not be spent on anything else, so if you're going to keep it in the same account as "savings" or "emergency funds", you really need to regard it as not being available for anything else whatsoever. Until you have enough money to move, you can't really afford to set aside money for the bankruptcy lawyer. Also take into account any costs associated with moving such as deposits for utilities at the new address, hiring a moving van, etc. I'd definitely like to see you sub-divide your "savings" category for the moment so that money is less likely to become a general "dip into when we go over budget" fund. It might help to think of the money you're setting aside for moving and for the bankruptcy as bill money rather than as money you've "saved". Lolie fucked around with this message at 05:23 on May 31, 2013 |
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May 31, 2013 05:18
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Lolie posted:Did your husband contact the bank/foreclosure lawyer on Tuesday and find out whether they're willing to offer you a token payment to vacate the property before the auction? He did not contact the foreclosure lawyer. We aren't sure we will have a place to move into before the auction, so I don't know if we can even accept a payment. He will call them Monday. We don't plan on touching our savings at all for this month at least. All of his paychecks are going to go into savings to help toward the security deposit and lawyer fee.
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May 31, 2013 07:16
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A computer engineering degree from a lower tiered school in an area with historically low CE prospects sounds like a terrible investment. I say this as a CE degree holder from a top 5 school. What companies are in the area that are offering CE jobs? He should contact them and find out what opportunities they have, and find out more about the companies and their future. He'll absolutely need to get internships and co-ops after his sophomore year. It'll be an uphill battle at his age, and a lot of pure CE jobs will want a masters because the field has advanced quite a lot. It's very math heavy for the first two years, so hopefully he has a strong math background.
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May 31, 2013 07:48
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Have you decided yet on methods for tracking your spending for June and strategies for sticking to your budget? The first is important for the first few months so you know whether your allocations are accurate and so you can see exactly what causes you to go over in your categories. The second is important because you need to create mental barriers which maintain your awareness of what you have available to spend. Where other people in the family are spending money, they need to be aware of the amount available for the remainder of the month declining. How is the money your son contributes towards the household accommodated in your last budget? Have you included just the $450 which is left after he receives his "allowance" of $200? Also, I think you mentioned being paid bi-weekly. Does this mean that you'll need to pay some of May's bill's before you're able to set aside a full month's worth of money for those categories (and have to "borrow" from other categories to do so?). How often does your husband get paid? I'm mostly asking because your new financial plan starts later today and having a clear idea of how you're going to implement it will help you stick to it. A simple Excel spreadsheet is fine but you need some way of knowing exactly how much is set aside for each category, how much you've spent in that category, and how much you have remaining in that category for the rest of the month. For at least the first month, you want to be updating it every time you spend money on anything, even if all you're updating is line items on a spreadsheet. You're trying to train yourself to be aware of exactly how much money you have available for the remainder of the month at all times so that if you spend half of the gas budget for June by filling both cars this week, everyone in the house is aware they need to cut out any unnecessary trips because what's left in the budget has to last until 1 July. You're trying to identify the areas in which your budget projects are hopelessly at odds with reality and the "exceptions" for which you haven't budgeted (I'm guessing you have a number of these every month). I second the suggestion made up-thread for you to use the envelope or jar system. You need other people in the family to remain aware of what's still available to spend in each category and that's more likely to be "real" to them if it's not just numbers on a spreadsheet (make sure that receipts for each category get put in the envelope/jar as the money is spent, too). Have you made a meal plan and a shopping list for your first June grocery shop yet? With your entertainment category, are you just going to give everyone a quarter of that money at the beginning of the month and tell them to make it last? This seems to be the only category from which any of you can really take "blow" money and I do think it's important that each of you has a small amount of money to spend on "whatever" each month so that you realise when your "want" money is gone it's gone and you'll just have to wait until next month to fill any more wants? I think it's especially important for your teenagers to know in advance what their personal "entertainment" allowances will be for the coming month. Although it's not relevant to your June budget, at some point during the next twelve months you're going to have a 16th birthday, and 18th birthday and Christmas. It sounds like emotional spending could be a bit of an issue in your family, so now might be a good time to start thinking about how you can make those occasions "special" without breaking the budget (they'll become "exceptional" expenses otherwise). Lolie fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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May 31, 2013 23:43
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Lolie posted:Have you decided yet on methods for tracking your spending for June and strategies for sticking to your budget? The first is important for the first few months so you know whether your allocations are accurate and so you can see exactly what causes you to go over in your categories. The second is important because you need to create mental barriers which maintain your awareness of what you have available to spend. Where other people in the family are spending money, they need to be aware of the amount available for the remainder of the month declining. We started the month today, since I got paid and the ssi went through today. Plus we go grocery shopping on Fridays. We spent $186 on groceries, and $22 on cleaning and storage today. Plus $56 on gas. That gas should last about a week because I work two extra nights. I get paid bi-weekly, and my husband gets paid weekly. He will be making more for the next three months so everything he makes above our budget is going into savings. We created a Google doc spreadsheet with two columns, one for projected and one for actual. We are going to save all receipts and enter the money as soon as we can. For things like entertainment, clothing, and the misc we have envelopes with cash. At the end of the month, what is done with extra money? Our income for June will be higher because we started a day early so I will get paid three times. I done get paid in July until the 12th. I'm just not sure how to carry out over in the budget, or do we just zero out the budget, but use the money still in the account? I'm asking more for recordkeeping than for actual spending.
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Jun 1, 2013 00:59
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LoveMeDead posted:At the end of the month, what is done with extra money? Our income for June will be higher because we started a day early so I will get paid three times. I done get paid in July until the 12th. I'm just not sure how to carry out over in the budget, or do we just zero out the budget, but use the money still in the account? I'm asking more for recordkeeping than for actual spending. This depends on your goals. Apart from the foreclosure deficiency, are there any other debts which will be included in the bankruptcy? You have two things which you need to find money for relatively quickly - a) a rental property and b) bankruptcy costs. You also need to build up a $1000 emergency fund as soon as you possibly can. Once you have the money for your rental property, you can allocate any "extra" money to the other priority expenses, but you need to have that money actually in hand first. If you're not going to get paid in July until the 12th, you're going to need to set aside money for the first two weeks' expenses and if you must include the third June pay as June's money (personally, I wouldn't, but ignoring additional income is one of the mind tricks I use) then only count two days' worth of that money as June income. Yes, it's really just a mental trick because the money will be sitting in your bank account anyway but until you've built up your buffers (money for moving, money for bankruptcy, $1000 emergency fund), you need a budget which essentially leaves you with 0 "extra" money at the end of the month even if you come in under budget so any "extra" should go to the highest priority goal which hasn't yet been met. The third June pay means that your second pay for subsequent months isn't going to arrive until after you've had to pay most of each month's expenses so you need to be careful about how you spend that money or you'll find yourself coming up short (you don't want to dip into savings or emergency funds to survive the first 12 days of July). Are there any of July's expenses which you can make a pre-payment on with your third June pay (ie, pay half of what you've allocated for July when you get that last June pay whether or not you've received the bill - if you pay your bills online, this should be easy as you already have all the relevant account numbers)? It would be a move towards thinking in terms of paying as you're actually incurring expenses or even before they're incurred (if you're getting paid every two weeks, you'll eventually end up a month in front of all your bills if you can start thinking this way). Also, if you seriously don't need to touch your husband's income for regular expenses (you said you're going to put his income into savings), then I'd consider reworking your budget to a fortnightly one even though many of your expenses are currently paid monthly. Also, how good are people in your family about returning change (having raised 3 teenagers, I'm aware this can be a trap if you don't have the exact amount of money you want to give them on hand)? If you're using envelopes/jars, you need people to be returning any change rather than keeping it in their wallets (where it will likely just get spent without much thought). Lolie fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 02:05
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Lolie posted:This depends on your goals. Apart from the foreclosure deficiency, are there any other debts which will be included in the bankruptcy? This is why I'm not good with a budget. Math is not fun for me. There are some old medical bills that will be in the bankruptcy. The car is in my name and I'm not going to declare bankruptcy, only my husband. He got paid today, about $250, and we are going to put that straight in to savings in the morning. Another $200 from our checking account is going to go into savings tomorrow too. His paychecks should be $200-$250 every week for the next few months, so this will really help savings. I don't even know what we are going to do for birthdays this year. We have always had cheap Christmas because our parents spoil the kids. We just do something as a family as our gift to each other. We are going to go visit my parents in July, but the only cost should be gas. My parents are going to pay for everything while we are there. We figure that what we save on groceries that week will be about the cost of gas. Lolie posted:If you're not going to get paid in July until the 12th, you're going to need to set aside money for the first two weeks' expenses and if you must include the third June pay as June's money (personally, I wouldn't, but ignoring additional income is one of the mind tricks I use) then only count two days' worth of that money as June income. Yes, it's really just a mental trick because the money will be sitting in your bank account anyway but until you've built up your buffers (money for moving, money for bankruptcy, $1000 emergency fund), you need a budget which essentially leaves you with 0 "extra" money at the end of the month even if you come in under budget so any "extra" should go to the highest priority goal which hasn't yet been met. The third June pay means that your second pay for subsequent months isn't going to arrive until after you've had to pay most of each month's expenses so you need to be careful about how you spend that money or you'll find yourself coming up short (you don't want to dip into savings or emergency funds to survive the first 12 days of July). So, I should take my paycheck that I will get on June 28 and divide it by 7 and just add that to June's budget? So whatever is left over at that point should go into savings? And the other 6/7ths should go towards July's budget? OR I should just take that extra paycheck and prepay bills?
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Jun 1, 2013 03:13
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LoveMeDead posted:
I think you'll have to make that choice closer to the time (different strategies work for different people and you'll probably have a better sense of how disciplined you're going to be in a few weeks. I'd try to avoid using that last pay in June during June at all if you possibly can and count the entire amount as your first July pay - that way you'll be starting July with half the month's income already in hand), but it's important that you don't think of it as extra June income in the meantime because the reality is that you're going to be living off it for the first 12 days of July. I'm reluctant to address the issue of "savings" because I want you to think of the money you need to set aside for moving and for the bankruptcy more like current expenses than future things for which you're saving (which is why putting the money in a separate account would be a really good idea). You said that you already had $1100 saved. Are you counting that money as "moving" money or is it as yet unallocated? Was the $1100 before you got paid this week or after (I presume you can't pull the whole $800 you've allocated towards rent for June out of the pay you just received)? What I'm looking for is an idea of whether you have $1600 in allocated funds if you find a rental house next week that is $800 a month because you pretty much need to maintain that at all times right now until you actually move. You can't rely on future June money to cover that cost because it could come at any time. Also, I noticed that you've included $100 per month for phone in your last budget even though you said your husband's parents would be paying for your phones for the next few months. Also, I just did your June budget as an Excel pie chart and the thing which really stands out visually is that your car payment, your car insurance and your gas add up to 24% of your monthly budget (rent is 22% and food is 19%, for comparison). Lolie fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 04:13
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Lolie posted:I think you'll have to make that choice closer to the time (different strategies work for different people and you'll probably have a better sense of how disciplined you're going to be in a few weeks. I'd try to avoid using that last pay in June during June at all if you possibly can and count the entire amount as your first July pay - that way you'll be starting July with half the month's income already in hand), but it's important that you don't think of it as extra June income in the meantime because the reality is that you're going to be living off it for the first 12 days of July. I'm reluctant to address the issue of "savings" because I want you to think of the money you need to set aside for moving and for the bankruptcy more like current expenses than future things for which you're saving (which is why putting the money in a separate account would be a really good idea). We should be able to count the last paycheck in June towards July. My next check in 2 weeks will be $1600-$2000, depending on if I get called off on the extra day I picked up next week. The paycheck I got today is less than usual because I took some time off and used PTO. I didn't get my shift differential for 24 of the 72 hours, and it makes a big difference. The $1100 is what was in the bank at that time. We made a car payment, electric bill, water bill, and grocery shopped between then and the end of the month. We had $510 when I got paid, and we have $1537 right now. I took the kids today for some misc clothes ($36) a haircut ($21 - the cheap place was already closed and my son needed a haircut by tomorrow morning) and paid $50 for band camp. Should we just take that $510 and put it towards the rent deposit? We do not have $1600 right now. We are meeting with a landlord tomorrow about a place that is $650 and will be available in 2 weeks. I don't know right now how much deposit he wants and when he would want it. He wants to sit down and show us a typical lease and have me fill out an application. I'll know more tomorrow. He has several other properties in the area, so if this one doesn't work out we should be able to find another one. My husband wants to pay his parents. He hates depending on them, and that $100 isn't even what we use. It's just what his father will accept. I wish we could find cheaper car insurance, but with a 17 year old boy on the policy, cheap isn't an option. The car payment is high, but I'm not sure what we can do about that right now. And we are going to have to buy another car soon, I'm not sure how we are going to be able to do that. But once we do, we won't spend as much on gas.
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Jun 1, 2013 05:02
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LoveMeDead posted:The $1100 is what was in the bank at that time. We made a car payment, electric bill, water bill, and grocery shopped between then and the end of the month. We had $510 when I got paid, and we have $1537 right now. I took the kids today for some misc clothes ($36) a haircut ($21 - the cheap place was already closed and my son needed a haircut by tomorrow morning) and paid $50 for band camp. Should we just take that $510 and put it towards the rent deposit? Does the $1537 you have in the bank include the $510 which was "left over" when you got paid and the $250 your husband got paid? Which of the June expenses you've budgeted for fall due before you next get paid and how much will they eat up of the money you have in the bank? Obviously you'll need to buy food and put gas in at least one car, but are there any bills for which you'll have to make the whole month's payment before you next get paid (phone, car insurance, your student loan)? If you throw the $510 and your husband's $250 into your "moving fund" can you actually stick to the rest of the budget for the next two weeks? You said you started June's budget a day early, so based on that you've already spent 21% of June's personal care budget, 36% of June's clothes budget and 33% of June's education budget. You'll really need to watch those categories for the rest of the month. It would definitely help to know what the standard rent deposit/rent in advance situation is in your area because your June budget is going to be meaningless if you have to just use whatever's in your account to move in a couple of weeks. Also, how much does your actual phone use run to (and what's the reason it's over $100 per month)? You said you're not good with numbers. Are visual representations more helpful to you? I've set your budget up as a simple Excel workbook with formulas. If you want to post as you spend, the charts will automatically update so I can post a new image showing where you're at if images have more impact on you than numbers. 
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Jun 1, 2013 09:45
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LoveMeDead posted:The $1100 is what was in the bank at that time. We made a car payment, electric bill, water bill, and grocery shopped between then and the end of the month. We had $510 when I got paid, and we have $1537 right now. I took the kids today for some misc clothes ($36) a haircut ($21 - the cheap place was already closed and my son needed a haircut by tomorrow morning) You're already in the wrong mindset for this long hard ordeal. Does your son really absolutely, life or death, need a haircut by tomorrow or does he just want one by tomorrow? If it wasn't life or death was there any reason you couldn't go back when the cheaper place was open? Also if your son truely understands the situation he's going to be OK with not being on the insurance policy.
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Jun 1, 2013 10:38
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Rudager posted:You're already in the wrong mindset for this long hard ordeal. It was probably the kid in JROTC, so yeah he probably needed it right away. That could be fixed with better planning though.
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Jun 1, 2013 11:30
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Just out of curiosity, did you have cash in "personal care" and "clothes" envelopes? If so, how did it feel taking a significant portion of the month's budget out of those envelopes? You need to do whatever it takes to make the connection between spending and reducing the amount remaining in the budget very real to you - so real that you'll re-think every bit of discretionary expenditure in advance. You're facing a fairly immediate crisis in that you need to get the money for moving together quickly (within a month at the outside) unless you want to be homeless. You're not going to be able to do that unless you can change your thinking about what's "essential". You also need a way to stop thinking of your bank balance as money you "have". At the moment, every cent in your bank account should be allocated, so what you "have" isn't what's in your bank account but the unspent amounts in each of your envelopes or the unspent balance in each category on your spread-sheeet (bearing in mind that you're in immediate financial crisis right now and need to come in under budget in as many discretionary categories as possible this month). Once again, I urge you to read the zaurg threads if you haven't already. Everyone in your family needs to be on-board to make this work and you're going to have to enforce some tough financial boundaries. Reworking the numbers will only get you out of trouble if you can actually stick to your budget and live within your means consistently once the immediate crisis has passed. Lolie fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 11:34
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hitachi posted:It was probably the kid in JROTC, so yeah he probably needed it right away. That could be fixed with better planning though. It was him. He was told yesterday that his hair was too long. Our insurance company, and the others we got quotes from, made us put him on the policy. Every licensed driver in the house has to be on the policy. It felt scary to spend the personal care and clothing money. We had half of each budget in the envelopes, so there is very little in each one now. I understand that once it's gone, no more clothes. My student loans and Netflix are the only bills I think we have to pay before I get paid again. I'm on my phone and away from the computer right now so I can't check. I wish there was better planning and understanding on my son's part. He "forgets" to tell us when he needs money until the last minute. When we were out yesterday he kept adding to his list of things he "needs". And he is very picky. He needs new shoes (really does, he has two pairs that are both starting to fall apart) but will not go to the store that is closing and has good shoes cheap. He wants to order Converse because he likes them. He also remembered yesterday that be needs a belt, undershirts, shorts, running shoes (for ROTC camp in July, but he wants to break them in), and the haircut. He got the belt and undershirts. I told him to write down everything he "needs", and add to the list every time he remembers something. We would then prioritize. I also told him that he really needs a job. LoveMeDead fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 13:33
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What about purchasing a decent set of hair clippers and just cutting his hair yourself? If your kid's in JROTC, it seems to me that option would pay for itself very quickly.
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Jun 1, 2013 13:37
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Nether Postlude posted:What about purchasing a decent set of hair clippers and just cutting his hair yourself? If your kid's in JROTC, it seems to me that option would pay for itself very quickly. We have clippers because I shave my husband's head. My son won't let me clip his.
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Jun 1, 2013 13:51
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LoveMeDead posted:We had half of each budget in the envelopes...  Yay, you're using the envelopes!For what it's worth, getting your financial life in order is going to require a major mental shift for your entire family and is going to require copious amounts of the word, "no." The kids are (hopefully) going to have the roughest time since they've gotten used to simply spending money without having the understanding of what money is or what can be done with it over time. Despite how hard it seems now, getting this stuff squared away is going to result in huge payoffs in the end. Keep up the good work. LoveMeDead posted:We have clippers because I shave my husband's head. My son won't let me clip his. Then he waits or gets a job and pays for it himself. The thing to remember is that every dollar you make has a place in the budget. There should be no "extra" money without a home. If anyone in the family absolutely must have this <thing> right now and there are absolutely no other options then the budget should be updated and funds taken from one category to cover this unexpected <thing>. This will help to drive home the idea that every dollar has a place and every dollar should be in its place. You'll soon begin to understand (like so many of us have, myself included) how frivolous, unexpected spending takes away from the goals you're trying to achieve and corrodes your financial stability. TouchyMcFeely fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 14:01
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TouchyMcFeely posted:
There is a budget for haircuts. So now no more haircuts this month. We changed the budget a little when we went to the spreadsheet. Just were more detailed with some categories. And I started to read that other thread. Are we really that bad? Ugh
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Jun 1, 2013 15:05
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LoveMeDead posted:And I started to read that other thread. Are we really that bad? Ugh They weren't facing foreclosure, but, in your defense LoveMeDusband seems more on board than Zwife was, despite his problem denial issues. Also it sounds like hes taking out loans for a real school instead of ITT, even though he might be stubborn about honestly assessing the most likely outcomes re: his field of study. The resistance to Internet advice on his part is there. It also helps that the primary earner in your situation is the one spearheading the operation, that wasn't the case with Zaurg an one of the reasons he could never bring Zwife around. Your son seems to filling a bit of the Zwife role from the last thread. He doesn't seem to get it. Granted hes a 17 year old boy instead of a mid 30's mother, but yeah, he needs to get over himself on the status things like paying someone else to give him an unavoidably ugly high and tight buzz cut.
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Jun 1, 2013 15:55
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Yiggy posted:They weren't facing foreclosure, but, in your defense LoveMeDusband seems more on board than Zwife was, despite his problem denial issues. Also it sounds like hes taking out loans for a real school instead of ITT, even though he might be stubborn about honestly assessing the most likely outcomes re: his field of study. The resistance to Internet advice on his part is there. It also helps that the primary earner in your situation is the one spearheading the operation, that wasn't the case with Zaurg an one of the reasons he could never bring Zwife around. My son definitely doesn't get it. We were talking about how he would want a job for spending money for college (at the very least). He said he would just mooch off other people or find a rich girlfriend who likes paying for him. I'm not sure how silly he was being, and how serious. He gets it on a large scale, he didn't want to even apply to MIT because he thought we couldn't afford it.
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Jun 1, 2013 16:07
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Yiggy posted:Your son seems to filling a bit of the Zwife role from the last thread. He doesn't seem to get it. Granted hes a 17 year old boy instead of a mid 30's mother, but yeah, he needs to get over himself on the status things like paying someone else to give him an unavoidably ugly high and tight buzz cut. Just to contrast, a friend of mine was in dire financial straits. Her young teenager son not only asked her to cut his hair as a cost-saving measure, when she hosed up slightly, he borrowed her eyebrow pencil and "filled in" a gap until it grew out. My impression is he treated it all as a sort of game, which may be a harder sell for an older, more status conscious kid. But this sort of creative thinking and willingness to step up really is necessary for everyone for a family going through difficulties, not just the adults. Edited to add, another friend of mine remembers as a kid there was one week her family just ran out of money. They were super proud so for a week, she and her sister had very little food except what they got for school lunch. To this day, she has no idea what her parents did for food during that week. I would never ever want to a kid of mine to go through that, but the point being, haircuts at home and generic sneakers are in no way "depriving" a kid. Poison Cake fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 16:21
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Poison Cake posted:Just to contrast, a friend of mine was in dire financial straits. Her young teenager son not only asked her to cut his hair as a cost-saving measure, when she hosed up slightly, he borrowed her eyebrow pencil and "filled in" a gap until it grew out. My impression is he treated it all as a sort of game, which may be a harder sell for an older, more status conscious kid. But this sort of creative thinking and willingness to step up really is necessary for everyone for a family going through difficulties, not just the adults. I don't feel like I'm depriving him. I just feel like the $8/month we usually spend on haircuts on him are worth avoiding the fight. I'm not giving in on the shoes though. I think his plan in his head is to argue until we go visit the grandparents and then show them his holey shoes. Grandma will buy him whatever he wants. They can afford it, but I don't want him manipulating them that way. I want him to have some idea of what things cost, I never did. I showed him the budget and sat down with him to figure out what he is going to "need" in the next few months. His list is ridiculous. He's a frustrating kid anyway. The other two seem to understand. The 15 year old is upset that she can't find a job. And the 21 year old has his own money for when he wants a $20 video game or get pizza with friends. He just passed his GED and is planning on figuring out a job.  His options are limited, but we are working on trying to figure out what he can reasonably do.
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Jun 1, 2013 16:59
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LoveMeDead posted:And the 21 year old has his own money for when he wants a $20 video game or get pizza with friends. He just passed his GED and is planning on figuring out a job. This is unequivocally a good thing and I don't want to discourage your son from working at all, but since he is on disability make sure he eases into it. If he earns more than ~1,000 in a month he will be ceased from the disability roles. If this is something he want to do long term anyways (meaning work full time), that's not a bad thing, but he might want to call the SSA local and ask about the Ticket to Work program (which may or may not be available in TN). This will allow him to see how he adjusts to work, and then if he later finds out he can't handle full time due to disability, it will make the process of resuming disability benefits less difficult and painful.
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Jun 1, 2013 17:14
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Threads like this make me glad that my parents made me get a job washing dishes at age 14 when I wanted to get a guitar. I haven't not had a job at any point in the 13 years since, and I feel like I appreciate the value of a dollar far more than many of my friends. OP, there's no work at all for your children? No restaurants where they can wash dishes? What about the grocery store or Walmart? What do other children in your kids' school do? Your 17 year old sounds smart, is tutoring an option? I'm definitely going to follow this thread, and hope you guys get things worked out.
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Jun 1, 2013 17:26
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I sympathize with the difficulty of reining in kids' wants, but I can see why your 17-year-old doesn't get it. This sounds mean, but you and your husband haven't been getting it. You spent $87 on makeup in May. Your son thinks he can pester you into buying stuff because he sees you doing it. I hope that you aren't sheltering your kids from the seriousness of the situation.
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Jun 1, 2013 19:29
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Trillian posted:I sympathize with the difficulty of reining in kids' wants, but I can see why your 17-year-old doesn't get it. This sounds mean, but you and your husband haven't been getting it. You spent $87 on makeup in May. Your son thinks he can pester you into buying stuff because he sees you doing it. This is what I've been thinking since you started posting about your 17-year-old. I have cousins in JROTC; however you feel about the military, JROTC kids are supposed to learn responsibility, discipline, teamwork, and respect for authority. Your son doesn't seem to realize that your family is a financial team and you are his authority figure. I'm sure his instructor wouldn't be pleased to know that one of his cadets is fighting with his mom to spend money she doesn't have. Does he realize that his spending means deprivation for the rest of you?
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Jun 1, 2013 19:54
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LoveMeDead posted:We have clippers because I shave my husband's head. My son won't let me clip his. Well this is even worse. To re-iterate, you're definitely not the right mindset for this. LoveMeDead posted:I don't feel like I'm depriving him. I just feel like the $8/month we usually spend on haircuts on him are worth avoiding the fight. Don't do this, you're throwing money at the problem and taking the easy way out. Rudager fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 20:52
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Trillian posted:I sympathize with the difficulty of reining in kids' wants, but I can see why your 17-year-old doesn't get it. This sounds mean, but you and your husband haven't been getting it. You spent $87 on makeup in May. Your son thinks he can pester you into buying stuff because he sees you doing it. It's true. We aren't sheltering them from it. Like I said, the other two get it. Our daughter felt bad because I bought her a $2.50 shirt from JoAnn fabric yesterday. And the 17 year old gets it on a large scale, he's picked colleges based on their cost. He could go to MIT, but won't even look at it because he feels like we can't afford it. We cant, but if he got in his grandparents would make it happen. He just doesn't see why we can't buy him things as he remembers he needs them. He does need new shoes, but I'm not replacing the Converse he got for his birthday with new Converse. He's irritated about that.
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Jun 1, 2013 21:46
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LoveMeDead posted:It's true. This is sort of off-topic but one thing to consider is that the top-tier colleges usually have generous financial aid. The sticker price is high, but after grants the amount you're taking in loans may actually be lower than at a cheaper college. I know many people who were able to go to MIT/Harvard/Caltech with less than $5,000 in loans at the end of four years.
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Jun 1, 2013 22:07
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If you get into a MIT-caliber school, they will make sure you can afford it. Depending how the aid works out, it might even be cheaper than going in-state. This really only applies to that upper tier (Ivies/MIT/Stanford/Caltech), the second-tier private schools usually don't have nearly as much aid money to give around. And an MIT degree opens a lot of doors that most people aren't even aware existed. Also, if your husband wants to do computer engineering, has he looked into whether there are actually any computer engineering jobs in your area? I'm a computer engineer and I feel like the vast majority of jobs are working for giant tech companies in Silicon Valley. This isn't so true for CS and definitely not IT, but CE is kind of a particular field.
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Jun 1, 2013 22:11
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If he's going to major in something employable going to MIT is probably the right choice. As other posters have stated there'll be financial aid, plus the prestige of having MIT on your resume is probably worth it in the long run even after accounting for student loans (unless your son ends up with some critical personality flaw that prevents him from having a decent career).
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Jun 1, 2013 22:19
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in_cahoots posted:This is sort of off-topic but one thing to consider is that the top-tier colleges usually have generous financial aid. The sticker price is high, but after grants the amount you're taking in loans may actually be lower than at a cheaper college. I know many people who were able to go to MIT/Harvard/Caltech with less than $5,000 in loans at the end of four years. Seconding this. I literally would not have been able to afford college without the generous financial aid from my otherwise-hella expensive school (my mom couldn't take out loans at the time and neither could I, so it was either savings or nothing, and we're not rich people by any means). They'll even have need-based aid instead of (or along with) merit-based, so he won't have as much pressure about his GPA. He should apply to wherever he wants to go, then figure out financial aid and make a decision after that. Don't rule options out before you (and the school) give it a try. Not every school does it, but if they accept you and they want you there, they'll offer scholarships and whatever else they can, and he can find things as well. So tell him to try MIT or Harvard (Harvard does need-based aid and you get to take classes at MIT if you're studying engineering, etc.) or wherever else he's thinking of, and look up their financial aid plans and see what he needs to do to qualify. If he's confident that he can go Ivy tier, then go for the schools that offer good aid (not Columbia, I hear their aid is poo poo). And don't think you earn too much to get aid because you didn't get the waivers for AP test fees and all that, the schools will have their own criteria for their aid packages (based on FAFSA info and other financial info, I think. It's been a while, so I'm not the most up-to-date source).
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Jun 1, 2013 22:25
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yoyomama posted:Seconding this. I literally would not have been able to afford college without the generous financial aid from my otherwise-hella expensive school (my mom couldn't take out loans at the time and neither could I, so it was either savings or nothing, and we're not rich people by any means). They'll even have need-based aid instead of (or along with) merit-based, so he won't have as much pressure about his GPA. He should apply to wherever he wants to go, then figure out financial aid and make a decision after that. Don't rule options out before you (and the school) give it a try. Not every school does it, but if they accept you and they want you there, they'll offer scholarships and whatever else they can, and he can find things as well. This is good to know. I think he's afraid he wouldn't get in, and doesn't want the rejection. He's pretty set on University of Texas at Austin right now. University of Alabama, Huntsville is his second choice. He wants to eventually be a physicist, dealing with particle physics. He's going to major in either aerospace engineering or chemical engineering (maybe) and get a masters and probably phd in physics. He's smart, a little lazy, but smart. He's also going to minor in music so I think that may be part of his reason for choosing UT Austin. Plus, MIT does not have Air Force ROTC and he's planning on continuing that which will mean more scholarships. In other news, we just got back from meeting the landlord of the house we might rent. He's 91% sure he will rent to us, without having an application filled out or a credit application. I got the impression he prides himself on reading people and only collects credit information because he is supposed to. The people are still living there, so we didn't get to see inside. The outside is a little run down, but he assured us everything would be in working order when we move in. We'll get to see inside at the end of next week, and won't sign anything until then. I'm not super excited about it, but he seems nice and it will work. Can't be too choosy right now.
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Jun 1, 2013 23:07
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LoveMeDead posted:And I started to read that other thread. Are we really that bad? Ugh Not really (although you have an imminent crisis looming) but the zaurg threads are a great illustration of how people find ways to justify spending they cannot afford and how easily you can end up with every month being an "exceptional" month, so you never really get ahead despite believing that you've changed the way you look at money. zaurg's threads are cautionary tales regarding what happens if you cannot actually change your mindset regarding money. On paper, you guys "should" be able to make significant headway by the end of the year if you can stick to a reasonable budget once the housing and bankruptcy issues are resolved. Coming to terms with what's *actually* reasonable expenditure for your family income will probably be difficult for all of you, though. Increasing your family income is going to be an important part of your plan, but it's not going to help if your expenditure increases to match your income. If you have the attitude of "I earn X dollars, we should be able to afford nice things", you need to change it right now. Having lived through the designer clothes stage with teenagers, what I used to do was contribute the amount I would have paid towards a pair of basic, no-name shoes. It was then up to my kids to find the rest of the money. Mine worked part-time in fast food on the weekends so they would lay-by expensive clothing items and pay them off over a period of a couple of months (they now can't believe that they spent 70 hours worth of wages on a pair of shoes). I know you said you've spoken to the family about the new budget and that they "understand", but do any of them really grasp the fact that homelessness is imminent unless you can put aside money for a rental property over the next few weeks? Have you talked to them about how you can put that money together? If you disregard the $510 which was "left over" from last month, how much is in each of your "envelopes" (real and imaginary) right now? Is there $400 in the rent envelope? The problem I see is that your June budget is one which might be fine if you were already in a rental house and the bankruptcy had already gone through but it's not really the kind of "emergency" budget which diverts all non-essential spending towards meeting the cost of moving and the bankruptcy. Edit. When you spoke to the landlord, what did he say about moving in costs? Exactly how much will you have to pay to move in and when will it need to be paid? If possible, you don't want to move into another absolute dump (if you absolutely must, then you want a short lease so you can find something better when your finances stabilise) but what he told you will give you an indication of what expenses will be involved in renting in your area (ie, whether it's basically going to cost you two months of rent to move in or whether the security deposit and rent in advance is calculated another way). Your son's attitude is a worry because if it doesn't change he's likely to blow large chunks of the financial aid he gets for college on non-essentials and then be needing you to send him money for essentials. He's going to be in BFC in 10 years telling us about his overwhelming student loan debts which can never be discharged. Lolie fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 23:09
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Lolie posted:Not really (although you have an imminent crisis looming) but the zaurg threads are a great illustration of how people find ways to justify spending they cannot afford and how easily you can end up with every month being an "exceptional" month, so you never really get ahead despite believing that you've changed the way you look at money. zaurg's threads are cautionary tales regarding what happens if you cannot actually change your mindset regarding money. We have $460 saved right now that is earmarked for rent. That disregards what was left over from May. If we rent this place, we will need $1300 by the end of the month. I think we can do it. It's going to suck, but I think we can do it. When we were at Target yesterday, I realized how much of the problem I am. We bought exactly 4 things, all of which we needed. I stopped myself from buying about $50 worth of other things that I probably would have normally bought. All of the things I put back were things we could use, but don't need. We bought a belt, a package of undershirts, garbage bags, and hand soap. Our 17 year old needs a job. I can't stress that enough. I don't know what else to do to make it happen.
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Jun 1, 2013 23:32
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Could you have gotten those things (at least garbage bags/hand soap) from the dollar store? I'm glad you recognize you're part of the problem, but I'm skeptical that you guys realize the severity.
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Jun 1, 2013 23:48
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LoveMeDead posted:We have $460 saved right now that is earmarked for rent. That disregards what was left over from May. If we rent this place, we will need $1300 by the end of the month. I think we can do it. It's going to suck, but I think we can do it. That $1300 is first and last, right? What about a security deposit, and hookup fees for utilities and internet? Are you renting a moving truck? Edit: You may also want to check if there are any requirements for cancelling your current utilities/internet/insurance. I've had to pay an extra month before because I didn't give 30 days' notice.
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Jun 1, 2013 23:51
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LoveMeDead posted:We have $460 saved right now that is earmarked for rent. That disregards what was left over from May. If we rent this place, we will need $1300 by the end of the month. I think we can do it. It's going to suck, but I think we can do it. If you're sticking to your budget, then you should have that $1300 by mid-month. You have $460 already, you'll be adding another $400 to your rent envelope when you get paid again on the 14th, and you have $510 "left over" from last month which is currently unallocated (I'd probably allocate it to rent right now). If you can be disciplined for the next couple of weeks, you've solved your most pressing problem. The challenge is going to be not touching the "rent" money for any other purpose whatsoever, not even $20 for a "one-off", "exceptional" expense. Do you have a rough quote for the bankruptcy expenses? These aren't nearly as urgent but the sooner we can show you how to knock those over quickly and get your emergency fund in place, the sooner you'll be able to operate on a consistent monthly budget. Also, moving is a great time to de-clutter and have a garage sale. If you've been used to emotional spending, the chances are there's a lot of unused stuff lying around your home which can be sold and put towards moving costs which aren't covered in your budget (truck hire, utilities deposits, etc). I realise you probably feel "deprived" at some level, but a whole new world will open up to you when you stop frittering away money on crap you don't need. You'd probably love a real holiday, to be able to buy concert tickets without thinking twice, etc. Those things becomes possible once you get your finances under control but you have to make choices - if you're blowing $60 per month (which most people would regard as a trivial amount of personal expenditure) on toiletries/make-up/odds and ends you don't need, then that's $720 a year which isn't available for holidays or other big ticket items which would likely bring you more enjoyment. Multiply that by 5 people in your household and you've got over $3500 which could be going on things which bring you more than momentary pleasure. You're not cutting your discretionary expenditure, you're just spending it more consciously and when you do that you stop feeling "poor". Also, what's your phone usage really like? You said earlier that you pay $100 per month to your husband's parents but the actual cost is higher. Even taking into account *teenagers*, this seems like an expense you should be able to get down. What's the current balance on your car loan and your student loans (I realise these are allowed for in your monthly budget, but it would be good to get an idea of what your family's post-bankruptcy debt level will be given that you're seriously considering both you and your husband taking on more debt in the foreseeable future)? Someone posted a link to Dave Ramsay's Baby Steps earlier. I think it might also be helpful for you to read his "beans and rice" stuff. While "beans and rice" are a literal diet for times of financial crisis, it's more about having a "beans and rice" mentality and living frugally even when you don't "need" to - the message is an especially important one for your family to grasp because you actually do need to live frugally at the moment. If Dave Ramsay doesn't resonate for you, then Suze Orman's "People, Money, Things" philosophy might be something you can more easily apply to your family's financial health. It matters far less whose strategies you think are "best" than that you reach a "got it" moment and are able to commit to doing what it takes to restore your family to financial health. quote:We changed the budget a little when we went to the spreadsheet. Just were more detailed with some categories. Although this can be useful, be careful if you find yourself doing this often. You do need to track spending for a few months to see where you're bleeding most and if one person's expenses are chewing up most of the budget in various categories, but you probably don't need haircuts as a separate line item in your personal care budget unless you are prone to "forgetting" that your son needs a monthly hair cut and spending the entire monthly personal care allocation before his haircut is due. Lolie fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Jun 2, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 23:56
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LoveMeDead posted:I don't feel like I'm depriving him. I just feel like the $8/month we usually spend on haircuts on him are worth avoiding the fight. LoveMeDead posted:...a haircut ($21 - the cheap place was already closed and my son needed a haircut by tomorrow morning)... Except you didn't pay $8, you paid $21 because your son couldn't be bothered to learn the rules of JROTC (hint: haircut requirements haven't changed) or mention it in a timely manner. Especially since it was for JROTC, it shouldn't have been a surprise and a responsible 17-year-old should be able to figure that out. Frankly, you're doing him a disservice, because you caved and he didn't have to learn a drat thing. You need to start treating him like an adult. He can either learn to plan and work with the budget, get slapped around by JROTC for not following rules, or get his hair cut by his mom tonight. Your saving him from having to face undesirable outcomes is only reinforcing his behavior. He's 17, what's he going to do when he's on his own? Good luck with MIT if he can't figure out the cause and effect of needing a haircut.
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Jun 2, 2013 03:30
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Trillian posted:That $1300 is first and last, right? What about a security deposit, and hookup fees for utilities and internet? Are you renting a moving truck? I'm at work on my phone, so sorry if I miss things. We are just transferring utilities and internet so there is no deposit. I'll have to find out about hooking up the internet. We aren't renting a truck, several friends are coming with their trucks to help. The bankruptcy is going to be $1000. We have a line on our budget for it, but won't be putting anything there until the deposit and rent are taken care of. The deposit is$650. So by July 1 we need to have $1300. I'm going to cash in 32 hours of PTO time, so that will be about $500 more this month. I accumulate 6.5 hours a pay period and am keeping 40 banked so I'm not worried about that. That money will go toward rent/bankruptcy. We are planning on having a yard sale, hopefully June 22. There is a lot of stuff we could sell.
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Jun 2, 2013 03:51
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