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Lexicon
Jul 29, 2003

I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Cordyceps Headache posted:

Personally, in an ideal world I would want to see the monarchy abolished and replaced by an elected figure. But, there are many more problems with our political system, and Canadian society in general, that I feel are more urgent to solve. It just seems to me like the effort and time expended to eliminate a symbolic position like that would be better spent elsewhere. If it were part of a total rehashing of the system, including the Senate and FPTP, then I would be behind it 100%

I agree entirely. I certainly don't think it's urgent. I'm mostly just incredulous that the nagging sense of embarrassment and vulgarity that I feel towards the whole enterprise is not more widely shared.

HipGnosis posted:

Yeah, what happens when she pops her clogs? Are we going to put Charles on our money and everything? That'll be weird.

I've long hoped that the absurdity of rescinding all the banknotes to make Charles versions would make more people question why the gently caress we keep up this charade. I guess we'll see when the time comes...

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Team THEOLOGY
Nov 27, 2008
Point of order: Sorry about he punctuation last night I think you guys eventually got to my somewhat hard to understand point (largely because of punctuation) but I was driving home from the office and my phone doesn't insert punctuation when I talk to it.

My fault.

Franks Happy Place
Mar 15, 2011

It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.
All of the old Lizzie money stays legal tender when she dies, they just start taking it out of circulation on the back-end (read: at the bank), similar to how they took the $2 bill out of circulation.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
I still have a couple old coins from like the 30s with George V on them.

Lexicon
Jul 29, 2003

I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.
Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like it was my belief all existing money would be invalidated - merely that I hoped that the events "old lady dying halfway around the world => Canada must issue new money" would trigger some sort of introspection about the whole thing.

Franks Happy Place
Mar 15, 2011

It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.
I like our system because it mostly works, and there is a very credible theory in political science that having a vacant figurehead as the executive prevents the 'token' presidency from accruing real power during a crisis.

We've had our system of government for about 100 years longer than the current French system, because theirs kept collapsing (and they aren't the only western democracy with that problem). Don't rock the boat without a REALLY loving good reason.

(That said, I'd like to see Senators elected to ten-year terms).

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

ocrumsprug posted:

I would prefer the monarchy to go, however I don't mind Elizabeth as she (perhaps ironically) knows her place. As long as she quietly continues to sign whatever parliament puts in front of her, she is just as good as any other figurehead head of state.

About that. Turns out british governments have been secretly consulting the royal family on bills before presenting them, effectively according them a secret veto. On bills related to tuition fees, child rights, paternity pay, or national insurance.

That has limited relevance to canadian affairs, of course, since the Queen plays zero role in our system and there doesn't exist a tradition of consulting the GG on bills, but this particular Queen isn't a particularly good example of knowing her place and political non-interference.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
Also in Australia the GG fired the Prime Minister Gough Whitlam back in the 70s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gough_Whitlam

Franks Happy Place
Mar 15, 2011

It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

HookShot posted:

Also in Australia the GG fired the Prime Minister Gough Whitlam back in the 70s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gough_Whitlam

You don't need to go to Australia to find that kind of thing.

But I'll still take the occasional executive-branch chicanery over the very real possibility of flipping out and giving the President the ability to use killer robots to prosecute the Forever War every time some Arabs go 'boo!'

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

"According to Wikipedia" there is a black hole that emits zionist hawking radiation where my brain should have been

I really should just shut the fuck up and stop posting forever
College Slice

JohnnyCanuck posted:

I self-identify as a progressive and liberal kind of person, and I am 100% behind keeping the monarchy. There was absolutely no irony behind my last post.

Same here except I'll go one step further, I self identify as Marxist leaning ideologically and I voted for the NDP, a member of the NDP (I voted for Mulcair in the leadership race) and I also support keeping at least the current Queen. She's been a institutional in of herself and a critical part of Canadian history and there's just no shaking that pathos for me.

I don't feel particularly strong about Charles or whoever it is that is taking over next, but I do find to a degree that the system helps keep us culturally distinct from the yanks down south and their dumb Amero idea.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

Fine-able Offense posted:

You don't need to go to Australia to find that kind of thing.

But I'll still take the occasional executive-branch chicanery over the very real possibility of flipping out and giving the President the ability to use killer robots to prosecute the Forever War every time some Arabs go 'boo!'

The King-Byng affair and the Gough Whitlam dismissal are very different. Byng acted entirely properly - he refused to dissolve the House while there was a credible alternative government who could command the confidence of the House. What Kerr did was proactively reach out to the opposition leader and dismiss a sitting PM without that PM having resigned or lost a vote of confidence. One of those two things is fine. The other really, really isn't.

Franks Happy Place
Mar 15, 2011

It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Pinterest Mom posted:

The King-Byng affair and the Gough Whitlam dismissal are very different. Byng acted entirely properly - he refused to dissolve the House while there was a credible alternative government who could command the confidence of the House. What Kerr did was proactively reach out to the opposition leader and dismiss a sitting PM without that PM having resigned or lost a vote of confidence. One of those two things is fine. The other really, really isn't.

There is actually a very solid argument to be made that what Kerr did was defensible because the Whitlam government was unable to exercise a function that is inherently a Confidence measure.

Freudian
Mar 23, 2011

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

Oh, I get that. But if we rewrote the constitution to not require the monarch? This is where it was sticky, because he would reply about the Divine Power of God or whatever. This guy was hyperconservative and got really excited for Dominion Day, for instance.

He also got super-excited for Budget Day, but I think that has less to do with being a Tory than with being a dullard who had absolutely no life. :v:

Are you the guy who posted about their Tory friend in the Ask Me About Anime Husbands --> Crazy Toxic Friends thread? I really hope there isn't more than one of these guys.

Lexicon
Jul 29, 2003

I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Raenir Salazar posted:

keep us culturally distinct from the yanks down south and their dumb Amero idea.

Must everything be phrased in terms of how it relates to America? Your post is the embodiment of my least favourite thing about Canadian culture.

Also, what's a dumb Amero idea?

Freudian
Mar 23, 2011

Lexicon posted:

Must everything be phrased in terms of how it relates to America? Your post is the embodiment of my least favourite thing about Canadian culture.

Also, what's a dumb Amero idea?

I think that was one of the proposed names for a unified North American currency.

BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000

Lexicon posted:

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like it was my belief all existing money would be invalidated - merely that I hoped that the events "old lady dying halfway around the world => Canada must issue new money" would trigger some sort of introspection about the whole thing.

We've also been updating the currency as she ages, and also to update out anti-counterfeiting standards. I really dislike the monarchy but I don't think switching our money around after she dies is going to be anything other than business as usual.

Blade_of_tyshalle
Jul 12, 2009

If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

Freudian posted:

Are you the guy who posted about their Tory friend in the Ask Me About Anime Husbands --> Crazy Toxic Friends thread? I really hope there isn't more than one of these guys.

I may very well have done that, yeah. I wonder what happened to that guy somedays. Did he make to England for university? Did the British curbstomp him for being an insufferable anglo-phile? The world will never know :allears:

ocrumsprug
Sep 23, 2010

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Pinterest Mom posted:

About that. Turns out british governments have been secretly consulting the royal family on bills before presenting them, effectively according them a secret veto. On bills related to tuition fees, child rights, paternity pay, or national insurance.

That has limited relevance to canadian affairs, of course, since the Queen plays zero role in our system and there doesn't exist a tradition of consulting the GG on bills, but this particular Queen isn't a particularly good example of knowing her place and political non-interference.

If that is British political tradition then she is fulfillling her part of it, and would seem to be doing her job. The Brits can do what they want.

If it were revealed that Canadian politicians were doing the same, then off with all the heads.

Kafka Esq.
Jan 1, 2005

"If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)
The officer who beat Adam nobody was just found not guilty. Most clear cut case we had, no sale. Doesn't look good for the rest. Edit: Never mind, it was Dorian Barton.

Kafka Esq. fucked around with this message at 16:59 on May 31, 2013

InfiniteZero
Sep 11, 2004

PINK GUITAR FIRE ROBOT

College Slice

HipGnosis posted:

Yeah, what happens when she pops her clogs? Are we going to put Charles on our money and everything? That'll be weird.

No, with only minor modifications to the bills they can all be made to have Bev Oda on them instead. Millions saved. Adscam!

This clarification brought to you by Canada's Economic Action Plan.

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008

Jaxxon: Still not the stupidest thing from the expanded universe.



Captain Geech posted:

Ban fat white guys from Canadian politics.

Dammit. I'd either need to lose weight, or lose my job.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

"According to Wikipedia" there is a black hole that emits zionist hawking radiation where my brain should have been

I really should just shut the fuck up and stop posting forever
College Slice

Lexicon posted:

Must everything be phrased in terms of how it relates to America? Your post is the embodiment of my least favourite thing about Canadian culture.

Also, what's a dumb Amero idea?

What? Its inherent to having a culture that there is a wish to remain distinct in comparison to similar cultures within the same "sphere", and America is economically and culturally huge (and currently politically toxic enough) enough that its a non-trivial concern when it comes to North American integration projects.

ZeeBoi
Jan 17, 2001

I'm British and adore the Queen. :v:

Lexicon
Jul 29, 2003

I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Raenir Salazar posted:

Its inherent to having a culture that there is a wish to remain distinct in comparison to similar cultures within the same "sphere"

Well sure. That doesn't mean the argument "X is a good idea because America exists" carries any water, especially when it's appended with "something something nebulous currency unification :tinfoil:"

If Canada is culturally unique, and culturally worthwhile (I believe it is both), that should be enough without constantly having to phrase everything in terms of how it relates to Americans. You basically said the monarchy is a good idea because America doesn't have it. What logic.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

"According to Wikipedia" there is a black hole that emits zionist hawking radiation where my brain should have been

I really should just shut the fuck up and stop posting forever
College Slice

Lexicon posted:

Well sure. That doesn't mean the argument "X is a good idea because America exists" carries any water, especially when it's appended with "something something nebulous currency unification :tinfoil:"

If Canada is culturally unique, and culturally worthwhile (I believe it is both), that should be enough without constantly having to phrase everything in terms of how it relates to Americans. You basically said the monarchy is a good idea because America doesn't have it. What logic.

I actually said it makes us distinct, and that by making us distinct it helps to keep us separate from the Americans, there's a distinction.

Funkdreamer
Jul 15, 2005

It'll be a blast
Our entire political system was ripped from the UK and you're worried about being distinct from Americans

You're reactionary and also having a republican system isn't the same as having an American presidential system

Lexicon
Jul 29, 2003

I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Funkdreamer posted:

Our entire political system was ripped from the UK and you're worried about being distinct from Americans

You're reactionary and also having a republican system isn't the same as having an American presidential system

Thank you. Precisely my point.

JayMax
Jun 14, 2007

Hard-nosed gentleman
As a Québécois I feel a deep, seething revulsion for the Queen. To me she symbolizes imperial dominance, hegemony, disenfranchisement, alienation, humiliation.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

We beat the germans in 2 wars yet are still technically ruled by them. House of "Windsor" indeed.

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008

Jaxxon: Still not the stupidest thing from the expanded universe.



Of course, this will be what happens if we do move on from them

Also, even 20 years ago the sun was a shitrag.

Ceciltron
Jan 11, 2007

Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!
Pillbug

JayMax posted:

As a Québécois I feel a deep, seething revulsion for the Queen. To me she symbolizes imperial dominance, hegemony, disenfranchisement, alienation, humiliation.

Pretty much this. I imagine the natives must not appreciate her that much either.

Justin Trudeau
Apr 4, 2009

There's a level of admiration I actually have for China because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime
I think I found the most shocking Canadian news story of the week:

@cbcnewsbc posted:

B.C. rejects Northern Gateway because project is 'unable to address B.C.'s environmental concerns.' #cbc

JayMax posted:

As a Québécois I feel a deep, seething revulsion for the Queen. To me she symbolizes imperial dominance, hegemony, disenfranchisement, alienation, humiliation.
As a British Columbian of English and Scottish ancestry, I feel the exact same way.

Kafka Esq.
Jan 1, 2005

"If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

dethslayer666 posted:

I think I found the most shocking Canadian news story of the week:


As a British Columbian of English and Scottish ancestry, I feel the exact same way.
First, that doesn't cover all pipeline projects, sadly.

Second, yeah, seeing European monarchs as imperialists blah blah blah isn't exactly unique to Quebecois.

HackensackBackpack
Aug 20, 2007

Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?
Can we skip Charles and just put William on our money? :allears:

Juul-Whip
Mar 10, 2008

It may be wrong to factor in Duffy's personal appearance when discussing his transgressions. But it's almost unavoidable. His plump, pink, serene aspect makes him look like nothing so much as a giant baby who has grown fat suckling at the public teat, and his evident lack of remorse reinforces the impression. That's completely unfair, of course. Chalk it up as just one more way Extra Whitey has been made to suffer lately.

BGrifter
Mar 16, 2007

Winner of Something Awful PS5 thread's Posting Excellence Award June 2022

Congratulations!
I don't feel particularly strongly about the issue, but I'd happily jettison the monarchy if it meant less royal visits to Canada. Drives me nuts every time a member of the royal family comes here and all our news outlets turn into royal-obsessed tabloids. I don't watch Power & Politics to find out what Prince Whatshisface is wearing.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

"According to Wikipedia" there is a black hole that emits zionist hawking radiation where my brain should have been

I really should just shut the fuck up and stop posting forever
College Slice

Funkdreamer posted:

Our entire political system was ripped from the UK and you're worried about being distinct from Americans

You're reactionary and also having a republican system isn't the same as having an American presidential system

Reactionary is stepping backwards, I believe the word you're looking for is actually conservative. :eng101: But you don't address the cultural and historical aspect.

JayMax posted:

As a Québécois I feel a deep, seething revulsion for the Queen. To me she symbolizes imperial dominance, hegemony, disenfranchisement, alienation, humiliation.

As an Anglophone Quebecer I see the Queen as a symbol for national unity, equality and preserving Canadian culture.

ZShakespeare
Jul 20, 2003

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!
As someone born in the 20th century I see the monarchy as an anachronism.

E: also Irish ancestors blah blah

Jenny of Oldstones
Jul 24, 2002

Queen of dragonflies
I wish there would be something about oil sands in the OP. It, and the recently introduced bills that cut scientific funding and reduce environmental regulation, are some of Harper's mistakes that will go down into history.

Some positive news from today from CTV, BC rejects the Northern Gateway project. I believe this is the formal opinion after the joint review panel met for the past several months.

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Coylter
Aug 3, 2009

Raenir Salazar posted:


As an Anglophone Quebecer I see the Queen as a symbol for national unity, equality and preserving Canadian culture.

This is a shrieking sound to my ears. Trolling or not i almost started to bleed there.

Coylter fucked around with this message at 19:52 on May 31, 2013

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