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TheImmigrant
Jan 18, 2011

Arrogant Yankee Cokehead

I have been on Volunteer Holiday, aiding the Taliban in their struggle for Islamo-Marxist fymynysm in Kandahar. But I lost touch with my Comrades.

Where do we stand on Syria?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

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Guy DeBorgore
Oct 12, 2004

Catnip is the opiate of the masses

I imagine most of us basically want it to end quickly with a secular liberal democratic government coming into being, hopefully one which doesn't owe its existence to Al-Qaeda.

edit: actually doesn't have to be secular

fuck the ROW
Aug 29, 2008

i just want your sufferings ~ your bloods and fluid ~ your stupid fucking tiny skeleton ~


Guy DeBorgore posted:

I imagine most of us basically want it to end quickly with a secular liberal democratic government coming into being, hopefully one which doesn't owe its existence to Al-Qaeda.

Best joke in the thread

Guy DeBorgore
Oct 12, 2004

Catnip is the opiate of the masses

gently caress the ROW posted:

Best joke in the thread

Hey, he didn't ask for what will happen.

j4on
Jul 6, 2003
I fix computers to pick up chicks.

I believe that the party line is that the rebels are in the right on this one, that they're losing, and that someone else will fix it. But not us. Oh god definitely not us.

Zedsdeadbaby
Jun 14, 2008


The official official party line: everyone and everything is hosed. Send help.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001
Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

TheImmigrant posted:

I have been on Volunteer Holiday, aiding the Taliban in their struggle for Islamo-Marxist fymynysm in Kandahar. But I lost touch with my Comrades.

Where do we stand on Syria?

Look man I miss LF as much as the next guy and the hat thread was a nice little trip down memory lane, but give it a rest.

Fluoride Jones
Aug 24, 2009

You're lucky I care about lady pecs.

TheImmigrant posted:

I have been on Volunteer Holiday, aiding the Taliban in their struggle for Islamo-Marxist fymynysm in Kandahar. But I lost touch with my Comrades.

Where do we stand on Syria?

Ican't pass judgement until I see the allegorical DS9 ep.

Urban Space Cowboy
Feb 15, 2009

All these Coyote avatars...they make me nervous...like somebody's pulling a prank on the entire forum!

Senor Lowtax posted:

Thank you, but this thread has already been reported recently!

Click here to return to the forums.
It's just not fair.

OwlBot 2000
Jun 1, 2009


Leila Khaled is to be Commissar of all Arabia, Turkestan, and The Sudan.

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


The proletariat of Syria is not ready for proper revolution. It is better for a victory by Assad until our material conditions can improve enough to properly liberate that land from the shackles of western imperialism.

SSJ2 Goku Wilders
Mar 24, 2010

I had to read the Communist Manifesto for my Philosophy course at the Community College and that makes me somewhat of an expert. Look forward to hearing about the nations that prospered from communist rule in the history course I have to take next semester.


Syria needs a strong leader, someone who will enact communism on behalf of the workers, with the mandate of the Soviets.







FIRE CURES BIGOTS
Aug 26, 2002

by Y Kant Ozma Post


TheImmigrant posted:

I have been on Volunteer Holiday, aiding the Taliban in their struggle for Islamo-Marxist fymynysm in Kandahar. But I lost touch with my Comrades.

Where do we stand on Syria?

Are you just trolling the supposed "leftist DnD hivemind?" You're making a strawman caricature.

As for Syria, where I stand is that we shouldn't be meddling. When the west gets involved, it just leads to imperialism.

SSJ2 Goku Wilders
Mar 24, 2010

I had to read the Communist Manifesto for my Philosophy course at the Community College and that makes me somewhat of an expert. Look forward to hearing about the nations that prospered from communist rule in the history course I have to take next semester.


Fire posted:

Are you just trolling the supposed "leftist DnD hivemind?" You're making a strawman caricature.

As for Syria, where I stand is that we shouldn't be meddling. When the west gets involved, it just leads to imperialism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-GaXa8tSBE

Shut up lol

OwlBot 2000
Jun 1, 2009


He's not trolling, just LF'ing. He just doesn't know it's played out and that the joke ran its course several years ago.

Edit: Well it is trolling, but trolling semi-ironically or something dumb like that.

FIRE CURES BIGOTS
Aug 26, 2002

by Y Kant Ozma Post


OwlBot 2000 posted:

He's not trolling, just LF'ing. He just doesn't know it's played out and that the joke ran its course several years ago.

Ah ok. Sometimes I don't pick up on things like that. Carry on

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


OwlBot 2000 posted:

He's not trolling, just LF'ing. He just doesn't know it's played out and that the joke ran its course several years ago.

Just like communism

Tubgirl Cosplay
Jan 10, 2011

by Ion Helmet


They should shake off the yoke of dictatorship and of foreign imperialism and chart their own path to become the free people, the college Democrats. Only then will their society be evolved.

SedanChair
Jun 1, 2003



TheImmigrant posted:

I have been on Volunteer Holiday, aiding the Taliban in their struggle for Islamo-Marxist fymynysm in Kandahar. But I lost touch with my Comrades.

Where do we stand on Syria?

I-I'm opposed to you! Terrorism (dusky militancy if you prefer) is super, super bad. Lay down.

dinoputz
Jun 26, 2005

IRONKNUCKLE PERMABANNED! READ HERE

SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:

Syria needs a strong leader, someone who will enact communism on behalf of the workers, with the mandate of the Soviets.









stalin

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

What?



We only have so many Stalin clones to go around, we need to stop handing them out like candy.

a bad enough dude
Jun 30, 2007

APPARENTLY NOT A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO STICK TO ONE THING AT A TIME WHETHER ITS PBPS OR A SHITTY BROWSER GAME THAT I BEG MONEY FOR AND RIPPED FROM TROPICO. ALSO I LET RETARDED UKRANIANS THAT CAN'T PROGRAM AND HAVE 2000 HOURS IN GARRY'S MOD RUN MY SHIT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3t8fzhFy2Y

Tubgirl Cosplay
Jan 10, 2011

by Ion Helmet


FIRE CURES BIGOTS
Aug 26, 2002

by Y Kant Ozma Post


We should side with the rebels because that always works out well for us and the cause of justice.

OwlBot 2000
Jun 1, 2009


poidinger
Jan 14, 2008

IGNORE ME


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9ScChTcCag

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001

dont touch me frodo

would Syria be better off if the FSA managed to remove Assad from power? or is it impossible to tell at this point

Fluoride Jones
Aug 24, 2009

You're lucky I care about lady pecs.

Fire posted:

We should side with the rebels because that always works out well for us and the cause of justice.

whoa, poo poo dude, my mind is like opened now

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004



Bring back HT:MM

SSJ2 Goku Wilders
Mar 24, 2010

I had to read the Communist Manifesto for my Philosophy course at the Community College and that makes me somewhat of an expert. Look forward to hearing about the nations that prospered from communist rule in the history course I have to take next semester.


Fluoride Jones
Aug 24, 2009

You're lucky I care about lady pecs.



it all makes sense now

OwlBot 2000
Jun 1, 2009


Flavahbeast posted:

would Syria be better off if the FSA managed to remove Assad from power? or is it impossible to tell at this point

Things are screwed up beyond all hope, but there's no way that a victory for Assad won't be the absolute worst outcome. Here's why:

If Assad wins there will be a very coordinated, organized killings of whole towns -- maybe a mass killing of Sunnis in general. 95,000 people have already died, and there's every reason to believe that Assad would be happy to kill a hundred thousand more. And, what some people might consider even worse, any vestige of freedom for the majority woud just vanish. People would be kept under harsh control, under curfew, spied upon, deprived of access to social services or even food, and too afraid to fight back for at least another generation. It would be like North Korea for 75% of the population.

Assad's only 47 years old, there's no reason he can't have another four decades to personally ensure that the children and grandchildren of everyone who opposed him suffer -- and then let his sons do the same.

What's the other side of the coin? The worst of the worst of the rebels win, and proceed to persecute minorities like Alawites, Christians and Druze whom they believe supported Assad or didn't commit to the revolution. They will probably try to install some extreme theocracy which will trample everyone's rights. Christians will probably flee to Lebanon or Jordan, Alawites and Druze to Iraq.

Russia will lose face and access to a (not entirely useful, but still important to them) naval base on the Mediterranean, and Iran will lose a great deal of influence. Hezbollah will be in big trouble, since most of their weapons come via Iran. Al-Qaeda will get stronger, as will the Gulf States and Turkey.

Unless, of course, France, The USA and Turkey can weaken the influence of foreign Jihadists in the new Syria and reduce the sectarian overtones of the conflict -- and the Syrian people can resist their influence. It's not that the average Syrian likes JAN and other Salafist groups; in fact, they're terrified of these maniacs. It's just that, thanks to backing from the Gulf, historical support from the USA and more recent experience fighting against the USA, they're simply the best fighters. But there's no reason people would continue to support them, or tolerate them, once Assad is gone.

In summary, we've got a choice between uncertainty if Assad falls and the certainty of the most brutal, inhumane massacres and affronts to human liberty the world has seen in decades if Assad remains. We've already seen him kill 95,000 people. We know exactly what will happen if Assad wins.

If the "FSA" wins, there's a chance Syria will become a new Afghanistan, ruled by the most extreme, hateful and vicious theocrats the world has to offer who might drive out all of the minorities. There's a chance that with outside pressure, Syria will become a moderately prosperous, relatively secular democracy without too much ethic tension and without massacres. There's a chance something somewhere in between will happen.

So, there are several possibile outcomes from a rebel victory, at least one of them good. There's only one outcome of an Assad victory, and we can't even imagine how horrific it will be.

poidinger
Jan 14, 2008

IGNORE ME

OwlBot 2000 posted:

In summary, we've got a choice between uncertainty if Assad falls and the certainty of the most brutal, inhumane massacres and affronts to human liberty the world has seen in decades if Assad remains. We've already seen him kill 95,000 people. We know exactly what will happen if Assad wins.

If the "FSA" wins, there's a chance Syria will become a new Afghanistan, ruled by the most extreme, hateful and vicious theocrats the world has to offer who might drive out all of the minorities. There's a chance that with outside pressure, Syria will become a moderately prosperous, relatively secular democracy without too much ethic tension and without massacres. There's a chance something somewhere in between will happen.

But there's no reason people would continue to support them, or tolerate JAN or Salafists, once Assad is gone.

He's right, I watched Assad personally brutally strangle every single victim of the entire civil war. The only thing the FSA will do is just """persecute""" and """"drive people away"""" because even the "most extreme, hateful and vicious theocrats the world has to offer" are spotless angels who have never committed a massacre or even killed a single person (because, again, Assad killed all 95,000 of the total ~95,000 casualties of the civil war)

Certainly no group has forced people to continue to support them with superior fighting skills and weaponry, because, gosh, the JAN and Salafists are just plain better people than the devil bloodthirsty murderer of the multi-fanged and -toothed Assademon

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OwlBot 2000
Jun 1, 2009


drat it, that's why I hate LF-esque threads, because I can never tell who's serious.

No, they aren't "better people", they're just better fighters than the inexperienced, non-Salafist Syrian rebels. They're also better supplied. And the only reason I mentioned that minorities under Salafists would be "forced out" is because it's easier for a minority to get the hell out of there against a disorganized fledgling government, than it is for a 75% majority to escape a mature government and military apparatus. Of course there's a chance the Salafists could decide to murder ever last Alawite if they come out on top, and the international community does nothing. Hell, even Iran could exert influence in such a scenario by threatening a real invasion if a genocide of Shia looks immanent.

Let's say the death toll is half and half, and the government forces or civilian sympathizers of the government make up 45,000 casualties. We do know that JAN and co. have committed massacres and done horrific things like eating hearts and so on, so that's a fair point. BUT, with whom does the ultimate responsibility lie? None of that would have happened if Assad had seen the protests, made some honest reforms or stepped down. Instead, he chose to kill the protesters. He chose to have a civil war. It was his actions that led to all of the deaths, and provided an opportunity for Al Qaeda rats to jump in the game.

So maybe I'll revise my statement and say, Assad has killed 45,000 people just to stay in power and can end it at any time, but chooses not to, even as the death toll approaches 100,000 and foreigners overrun the country. As such, we have no reason to believe he won't kill 45,000 more or keep sacrificing Syria for his own personal benefit.

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