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pathetic little tramp posted:Uh hey speaking of those kinds of scammy companies, something crazy happened today. Vemma, one of those pyramid scheme companies like Amway that normally avoids being called a pyramid scheme because they're "selling a product" got ruled as a pyramid scheme by the FTC today: I knew a few friends who got involved with Vemma. It's funny because it was so obviously a scam right from the start. I mean you have to pay money to be their salesman. Anyone who's not a complete idiot has to raise their eyebrows at that. Top that off with a recruitment video a friend showed me where the founder of the company said that it should be illegal to work a regular job (because they're so boring and everyone should just sell energy drinks), and holy poo poo how did anyone fall for it? People want so desperately to get rich quick they will believe literally any lie. I also had another friend who got involved with another two of these MLM companies. One was called LegalShield and the other Primerica or something and he literally would go door to door trying to sell retirement plans and legal insurance. The kicker about these programs was that unlike Vemma, where once you sold a product you could at least pocket a small profit, the LegalShield and Primerica companies depended on the people you registered staying on the program for a whole year. When someone dropped from the product before a year was up, the company would charge you back a prorate for what was left of their insurance term. They couldn't literally reach into your bank account, but basically you owed money to the company, which would be subtracted from future commissions. But he was convinced someday the company would make him rich, so he stayed on. Red and Black fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Aug 29, 2015 |
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Aug 29, 2015 01:08
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pathetic little tramp posted:Uh hey speaking of those kinds of scammy companies, something crazy happened today. Vemma, one of those pyramid scheme companies like Amway that normally avoids being called a pyramid scheme because they're "selling a product" got ruled as a pyramid scheme by the FTC today: I remember hearing about Amway getting in similar legal trouble years ago. The FTC claimed that they were making almost as much money off of their salespeople (from selling DVDs and seminars and crap) as they did from actual customers.
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Aug 29, 2015 04:50
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Chomskyan posted:I knew a few friends who got involved with Vemma. It's funny because it was so obviously a scam right from the start. I mean you have to pay money to be their salesman. Anyone who's not a complete idiot has to raise their eyebrows at that. Top that off with a recruitment video a friend showed me where the founder of the company said that it should be illegal to work a regular job (because they're so boring and everyone should just sell energy drinks), and holy poo poo how did anyone fall for it? People want so desperately to get rich quick they will believe literally any lie. That, and a lot of people think they're smarter than everyone else, and want to believe that they've figured out the One Weird Trick to getting rich. Once they are onboard, they aren't likely to realize or admit that they got scammed, because that would be the equivalent of admitting that they are actually idiots.
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Aug 29, 2015 09:23
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Chomskyan posted:
Primerica reps call me about jobs regularly, for some reason they think "Currently employed at >X salary" somehow translates to "I'm desperate for cash please hire me for your MLM company". Monster is the worst for this btw. They definitely have a large recruiting element.
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Aug 29, 2015 12:25
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hanales posted:Primerica reps call me about jobs regularly, for some reason they think "Currently employed at >X salary" somehow translates to "I'm desperate for cash please hire me for your MLM company". Monster is the worst for this btw. There's a guy in the neighborhood who always struck me as scammy. He'd brag about buying poo poo cheap and selling it on eBay and he always has 4 or 5 cars in his driveway that he's trying to flip. I bumped into him at the music store where he was being denied credit to rent a saxophone for his kid and we started talking. And of course he's also selling Primerica. It requires a certain personality and boy he has it.
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Aug 29, 2015 13:24
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Krispy Kareem posted:There's a guy in the neighborhood who always struck me as scammy. He'd brag about buying poo poo cheap and selling it on eBay and he always has 4 or 5 cars in his driveway that he's trying to flip. I bumped into him at the music store where he was being denied credit to rent a saxophone for his kid and we started talking. And of course he's also selling Primerica. I respect good hustlers, people who can recognize opportunity, take advantage of it and carve out a living. It takes a lot of work and a keen eye. Most people THINK they are hustlers, but actually lose money over time. Your friend sounds like the latter 
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Aug 29, 2015 13:52
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hanales posted:I respect good hustlers, people who can recognize opportunity, take advantage of it and carve out a living. It takes a lot of work and a keen eye. Most people THINK they are hustlers, but actually lose money over time. Your friend sounds like the latter Oh he's a hustler. He's from Jordan and I get the impression that kind of a national identity there. Unfortunately his engineering degree from the Middle-East hasn't translated well in the States, so he sells poo poo secondhand on eBay.
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Aug 29, 2015 16:39
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I had to cut all ties with a friend because he kept trying to push Primerica on me and my wife. It's really sad. Now my neighbors are into beachbody/shakeology/p90x and now I can't stand being around them because they mention it everytime we hang out. The saddest thing is that they make fun of people in MLM schemes because they pay up front for fees, or licensing rights...but then my neighbor goes on to tell me how he's drinking three shakeology shakes per day and going to conventions for the product to become a "coach". The cognitive dissonance is astounding. It almost makes me want to start my own cult/religion/MLM scheme, morons are in no short supply
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Aug 29, 2015 16:45
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quote:https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/3itqwe/dad_is_addicted_to_the_stock_market/ posted:
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Aug 29, 2015 16:58
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Are you not allowed to swear on Reddit?
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Aug 29, 2015 17:13
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Qwertycoatl posted:Stop giving your dad more money to throw in his infinite money hole! This xkcd just came up on /r/financialindependence , regarding engineers and stock picking: http://xkcd.com/1570/ I see the same with various coworkers. Similarly, I bought a bunch of Netflix shares a long time ago and got antsy after a few dollar swings near $100 and bailed out on a near zero gains, and then it later went on to quadruple over the next year... But now >95% of my sellable equity positions are in index funds, and it's so much less stressful.
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Aug 29, 2015 18:10
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I'm interested in this misterious "government benefit or something" that provides you with $200k in cash.
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Aug 29, 2015 19:04
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Thesaurus posted:I'm interested in this misterious "government benefit or something" that provides you with $200k in cash. Cashing out a pension at a guess.
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Aug 29, 2015 20:59
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From the OP of that Reddit thread:quote:Tbh, I myself do not know what would drive such an educated and intelligent person to do poo poo like this. And yes, we are planning to separate from him the moment I get a job on my own, after I complete my university degree. How does he have $10K to give away as a university student? quote:I'm interested in this misterious "government benefit or something" that provides you with $200k in cash. He lives in Singapore, so it's not a US thing at least.
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Aug 29, 2015 23:45
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Another one from Reddit. This time- a poster asks about financing the purchase of a luxury car:quote:Hello, 
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Sep 1, 2015 16:22
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Yeah, if you don't even know how to finance that much, and it's for consumer spending, just take it as a sign from the universe and sell your reservation spot to someone else.
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Sep 1, 2015 17:10
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I dunno, I had to look into how to finance my similarly-priced car because I hadn't really done it before. I ended up not doing financing, because my credit history in the U.S. wasn't going to get me a good rate, but the poster is putting 40% down and if they have the cash flow for the payment, what's BWM?
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Sep 1, 2015 17:53
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Subjunctive posted:I dunno, I had to look into how to finance my similarly-priced car because I hadn't really done it before. I ended up not doing financing, because my credit history in the U.S. wasn't going to get me a good rate, but the poster is putting 40% down and if they have the cash flow for the payment, what's BWM? It's not a 10 year old Civic paid for in cash, basically.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:11
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I personally think a $130,000 car with a 54% loan to value is ridiculous and I don't even drive a 10 year old Honda Civic. It sounds like the Harvard employee (student?) can afford it as long as he/she doesn't need cash available for anything other than the car.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:22
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Subjunctive posted:I dunno, I had to look into how to finance my similarly-priced car because I hadn't really done it before. I ended up not doing financing, because my credit history in the U.S. wasn't going to get me a good rate, but the poster is putting 40% down and if they have the cash flow for the payment, what's BWM? It's bad with money because the massive cost of the loan will cannibalize any fuel savings that having an EV would otherwise save you. But then again, maybe that guy just wants a really expensive toy (in that case, "money" as an issue simply becomes irrelevant). And as much as I love Teslas, they are very expensive to repair, even if you simply get rear-ended. After all, it's a luxury supercar. And if you're already neck-high in a $70,000 car loan, a $10,000 cost for repairing "$10,000 estimate to repair a 'minor but long' scratch" will kill your cash flow. Besides, if your preferred lender says, "The most we'll give you is $50,000" (which in itself is significant) then your automatic response is to find another lender who will give you more, then it's a pretty good indicator that the first lender had cash flow concerns. Barry posted:It's not a 10 year old Civic paid for in cash, basically.  Think of it this way. He's looking for $70K to finance the purchase of a $130K car. So he probably has $50K to put towards a new vehicle. You can get a really decent car for that amount. Heck, you can even top it up with a smaller loan (you know, less than $70K. Chump change, right?), and get something that much better and not be up to your neck in car loans for a car that doesn't even exist, yet. And as sleek as Teslas are, $80,000 buys you a lot of gasoline. melon cat fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Sep 1, 2015 |
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Sep 1, 2015 18:26
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^^That's a lot to assume based upon the very little information in the OP.GoGoGadgetChris posted:I personally think a $130,000 car with a 54% loan to value is ridiculous and I don't even drive a 10 year old Honda Civic. That's a lot to assume based upon the very little information in the OP.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:26
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Or that limit could be so that they preserve their preferred liquid reserves. You wouldn't buy a $130K car, that's fine, but if that's what the car you want costs and it fits in your finances, it's not BWM. It's possibly even the result of having been GWM previously.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:29
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Barry posted:It's not a 10 year old Civic paid for in cash, basically. As a predominantly AI guy that reads BFC I find it hilarious that people think a 2005 is old. I know I'm the "wrong" one but it's one of those "I don't wanna be right" deals.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:31
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Adiabatic posted:As a predominantly AI guy that reads BFC I find it hilarious that people think a 2005 is old. I know I'm the "wrong" one but it's one of those "I don't wanna be right" deals. It's just a throwaway comment. Insert whatever cheaper, older car you prefer in place as you see fit in order for the point to get across.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:33
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melon cat posted:It's bad with money because the massive cost of the loan will cannibalize any fuel savings that having an EV would otherwise save you. But then again, maybe that guy just wants a really expensive toy. So not optimizing for fuel costs is BWM? Only one good-with-money car out there I guess. I certainly wasn't motivated by fuel expense savings. Getting a panel replaced wasn't cheap, but didn't have any material financial effect on me. OTOH, it's awesome to drive, a tiny environmental contribution, and the safest thing on the road. All of those are things I was willing to spend money on, financed or not. I would have taken way more than 50% LTV if I'd got a good rate, because investments are outperforming the rate I was after.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:35
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If their primary bank (the bank with the best understanding of their financial picture) would only offer $50,000, and they are going to get a loan for $70,000, why is it a bold assumption that the loan payment will represent a very high percentage of their available cash flow?
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Sep 1, 2015 18:36
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melon cat posted:Think of it this way. He's looking for $70K to finance the purchase of a $130K car. So he probably has $50K to put towards a new vehicle. You can get a really decent car for that amount. Heck, you can even top it up with a smaller loan (you know, less than $70K. Chump change, right?), and get something that much better and not be up to your neck in car loans. And as sleek as Teslas are, $80,000 buys you a lot of gasoline. Again, a lot of assumptions. I don't disagree that's a possible scenario, but you're really assuming the worst when there's not much information to go on. It's also possible that he has $500k he could put towards a new vehicle but chooses not to so as to remain more liquid or whatever the hell.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:37
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To me the problem with the $130k car guy is that if you have to ask the internet how to acquire your Rich Person loan, you are probably not actually a Rich Person.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:37
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Barry posted:It's just a throwaway comment. Insert whatever cheaper, older car you prefer in place as you see fit in order for the point to get across. Yeah it's a completely valid opinion to have. I just thought it was funny. Myself and probably 70% of AI would never dream of buying a car for more than $10,000. We like poo poo-boxes from the 80s and 90s. Couple that with doing our own repairs and it would be GWM if we didn't each have 5 of them.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:39
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Devor posted:To me the problem with the $130k car guy is that if you have to ask the internet how to acquire your Rich Person loan, you are probably not actually a Rich Person. I think it's prudent to ask the internet questions about saving money on a loan if it's not something you're familiar with. Nobody bursts forth from the womb knowing the best place to get a $70k car loan and having a certain income (which we have no clue what reddit posters is) doesn't mean you know that either. GoGoGadgetChris posted:If their primary bank (the bank with the best understanding of their financial picture) would only offer $50,000, and they are going to get a loan for $70,000, why is it a bold assumption that the loan payment will represent a very high percentage of their available cash flow? They might just blanketly cap auto loans at $50k, financial capabilities of the lender be damned. The language used was "they cap the loan at $50k" not "they cap my loan at $50k."
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Sep 1, 2015 18:41
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:If their primary bank (the bank with the best understanding of their financial picture) would only offer $50,000, and they are going to get a loan for $70,000, why is it a bold assumption that the loan payment will represent a very high percentage of their available cash flow? Because credit history and not just cash flow affects loan amount? My first car loan was capped very low relative to my cash flow (about 10% of my gross) because I hadn't established credit history in this country yet.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:42
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Barry posted:Again, a lot of assumptions. I don't disagree that's a possible scenario, but you're really assuming the worst when there's not much information to go on. It's also possible that he has $500k he could put towards a new vehicle but chooses not to so as to remain more liquid or whatever the hell. Yes, I'm making a lot of assumptions here. But so are you. I'm assuming that his lending capacity is already maxed out, based on his preferred lender's lending decision. But you're making an even more dangerous assumption- that he somehow has $500K in liquid savings just lying around. Barry posted:They might just blanketly cap auto loans at $50k, financial capabilities of the lender be damned. The language used was "they cap the loan at $50k" not "they cap my loan at $50k." melon cat fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Sep 1, 2015 |
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Sep 1, 2015 18:43
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Devor posted:To me the problem with the $130k car guy is that if you have to ask the internet how to acquire your Rich Person loan, you are probably not actually a Rich Person. This is the most salient point so far imo
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Sep 1, 2015 18:47
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Read his post history. He's a science student (posted asking for someone to solve his homework problems). But he also has a wife who's into sous vide (rich person hobby) so the "$500,000 cash savings account and bad credit" scenario may well be more likely to be true than the "$70,000 car loan is a significant portion of his income" scenario.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:48
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Sous vide equipment is cheap now, like 100-150 bucks.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:49
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sous vide is a cooking style, I'm not sure it could really be described as a hobby let alone a rich person one... like no one would say "she's really into deep frying (poor person hobby)"
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Sep 1, 2015 18:50
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melon cat posted:If he had $500K in liquid savings lying around, his primary lender wouldn't have any problem lending him more than $50,000. I don't know if you've ever worked in a lending position at a financial institution, but in case you haven't- having a significant amount in liquid savings reflects very well on a credit applicant. I've never been in a lending position, but my first car loan was capped at 10% of my gross, while I had easily 20X the loan amount in liquid assets. I didn't even need the loan to buy the car, I just wanted to establish a credit history. The loan officer was very apologetic, but was limited by my credit history. Sous vide is...a rich person hobby?
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Sep 1, 2015 18:50
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Subjunctive posted:I've never been in a lending position, but my first car loan was capped at 10% of my gross, while I had easily 20X the loan amount in liquid assets. I didn't even need the loan to buy the car, I just wanted to establish a credit history. The loan officer was very apologetic, but was limited by my credit history. That's crazy! My credit score is in the 500s because I was sent to collections twice when I was 22, but I was able to get a $400,000 mortgage this year due to the amount I had in savings. Did you shop around at multiple banks at all? I hear Harvard Credit Union is great
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Sep 1, 2015 18:53
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Read his post history. He's a science student (posted asking for someone to solve his homework problems). I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or what. But in case you aren't, I'm not sure how a $200 to $400 kitchen appliance equates to a rich person hobby?  Subjunctive posted:I've never been in a lending position, but my first car loan was capped at 10% of my gross, while I had easily 20X the loan amount in liquid assets. I didn't even need the loan to buy the car, I just wanted to establish a credit history. The loan officer was very apologetic, but was limited by my credit history. And some unsolicited credit advice- if you're looking to establish credit history, you're better off using a revolving credit facility instead of an instalment loan.  Subjunctive posted:A mortgage is going to be easier than a car loan I suspect, given the respective underlying assets? melon cat fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Sep 1, 2015 |
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Sep 1, 2015 18:54
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:That's crazy! My credit score is in the 500s because I was sent to collections twice when I was 22, but I was able to get a $400,000 mortgage this year due to the amount I had in savings. I didn't have bad credit, I had no credit history in the U.S. And yeah, I talked to a couple of banks, my CU was the most reasonable in the end. A mortgage is going to be easier than a car loan I suspect, given the respective underlying assets?
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Sep 1, 2015 18:56
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