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Buff Baby
Jan 7, 2008

As a human being, I'm embarrassed.


I've just learnt of this thing called 'thin privilege'. Born as a minority female, I never thought that I had any privilege in society until now. From what I understand, it centers around people who were born skinny without genetic defects having an advantage in society over fat people. This originally didn't make sense to me because I have a lot of friends who aren't as skinny as me but still do well - or even better - than me. However, reading through some blogs, I learnt that because I have never been fat, society has just been giving me advantages that I never knew were a problem. Examples: Having a lot more clothing choices, not being judged when entering fast food, not constantly thinking about my weight.

I don't keep up with a lot of the movements because I'm an open person and believe that people should accept others for who they are, but this whole fat acceptance thing was new to me so I started googling more about my apparent privilege in society. I continued down this rabbit hole for the past hour, and pretty much ended up on Tumblr and Reddit when I started having second thoughts about obtaining my information from those sites.

So is thin privilege an actual advantage? I go to the gym and eat well but I don't think I've really 'earned' my right to be skinny? And what are the opinions of the fat acceptance movement? Can somebody be healthy if they are overweight? Have you ever been discriminated against or judged for being overweight?

Basically tell me more about the fat acceptance movement and whether "Obama and his wife are fatists." (real quote from a tumblr blog)

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Devour
Dec 18, 2009

by angerbeet


Since when was criticizing obese people for being essentially unhealthy discrimination? Also, the reason why normal people have an easier time getting hired is because they SIMPLY LOOK BETTER.

This "fat acceptance" thing is bullshit. Obesity is unhealthy, period. What happened to Kevin Smith on the airplane was a good thing. Seriously, put the loving bong down for awhile and go take care of yourself.

365 Nog Hogger
Jan 19, 2008


Official Dorkroom Mod-Approved Arbiter Of What Is And Is Not Art, 2014


Devour posted:

SIMPLY LOOK BETTER.

Nice essentialism there.

Devour
Dec 18, 2009

by angerbeet


Reichstag posted:

Nice essentialism there.
Tell me then why you believe a normal person has a higher probability of getting hired than an obese person other than the looks.

365 Nog Hogger
Jan 19, 2008


Official Dorkroom Mod-Approved Arbiter Of What Is And Is Not Art, 2014


Devour posted:

Tell me then why you believe a normal person has a higher probability of getting hired than an obese person other than the looks.

I'm not saying anything contrary to that, just that you're asserting that the status quo cannot be other than it is, which is wrong.

Lareine
Jul 22, 2007


Stop reading Tumblr.

Devour
Dec 18, 2009

by angerbeet


Reichstag posted:

I'm not saying anything contrary to that, just that you're asserting that the status quo cannot be other than it is, which is wrong.

No I was saying that criticizing obese people is not discrimination, for the sole reason of those people being unhealthy, which is for their own good. Do you disagree with this?

Buff Baby
Jan 7, 2008

As a human being, I'm embarrassed.


I tend to avoid Tumblr on the basis that it's crap, but I thought that there was some logic to the fat acceptance movement if every weight was a healthy weight for different people. I understand how people can look better when they're not as fat, but is that all there is to the thin privilege? Just superficial looks?

If it's just going to bring up poo poo though, maybe I should just drop it.

365 Nog Hogger
Jan 19, 2008


Official Dorkroom Mod-Approved Arbiter Of What Is And Is Not Art, 2014


Devour posted:

No I was saying that criticizing obese people is not discrimination, for the sole reason of those people being unhealthy, which is for their own good. Do you disagree with this?

Yes, how can you possibly claim to know that everyone with a bias against overweight people has the same reasoning (or lack thereof)? Rejecting someone for a job simply because you find them aesthetically or sexually unappealing is wrong.

gleep gloop
Aug 16, 2005

GROSS SHIT

No one wants to find a replacement suddenly when Orsum drops dead of a massive coronary. Plus fats smell.

Devour
Dec 18, 2009

by angerbeet


Tiara posted:

I understand how people can look better when they're not as fat, but is that all there is to the thin privilege? Just superficial looks?
Yes?

Reichstag posted:

Yes, how can you possibly claim to know that everyone with a bias against overweight people has the same reasoning (or lack thereof)? Rejecting someone for a job simply because you find them aesthetically or sexually unappealing is wrong.
It doesn't matter if everyone has the same reasoning towards obesity or not, it's an unhealthy lifestyle, and it's neither beneficial to you nor anyone else for that matter. I guess you could disagree with it in terms of interviewing/hiring process, but someone having a preference for hiring a normal person rather than an obese person is not discrimination at all.

365 Nog Hogger
Jan 19, 2008


Official Dorkroom Mod-Approved Arbiter Of What Is And Is Not Art, 2014


Acting on that arbitrary preference is, though. Not to mention that the idea that you are in a position to judge and dictate someone else's life is arrogant and misguided.

EXTREME INSERTION
Jun 4, 2011

oh yeah


Devour posted:

No I was saying that criticizing obese people is not discrimination, for the sole reason of those people being unhealthy, which is for their own good. Do you disagree with this?

People do come in different shapes and sizes, and, unless we are talking morbidly obese people, generally you can't tell how healthy someone is by weight alone. A fit plump person is healthier than a thin person with hypertension and poo poo from not working out and eating crap. Some people are larger or smaller than others, or tend to put on weight more easily. There is a genetic component to weight, and people should just focus on being healthy and doing healthy things, which will lead to the correct weight for your body type, etc etc.

Sometimes I think the fat acceptance stuff pushes things too far, though. Morbid obesity is not healthy, and they really should be pushing more healthy lifestyle stuff for everyone rather than accepting unhealthy lifestyle choices, whether by fat or thin people. Or we could all just do coke and be skinny, beautiful people. Whatever.

Tumblr is weird.

Icon Of Sin
Dec 26, 2008



Tiara posted:

I tend to avoid Tumblr on the basis that it's crap, but I thought that there was some logic to the fat acceptance movement if every weight was a healthy weight for different people. I understand how people can look better when they're not as fat, but is that all there is to the thin privilege? Just superficial looks?

If it's just going to bring up poo poo though, maybe I should just drop it.

The logic to the "Fat acceptance" movement is that they don't want people to remind them of the poor life choices that led them to that point. I get that there are people with legit medical conditions that make them larger; it's not 50 goddamn percent of the population though.

Harry
Jun 13, 2003


Tiara posted:

I tend to avoid Tumblr on the basis that it's crap, but I thought that there was some logic to the fat acceptance movement if every weight was a healthy weight for different people. I understand how people can look better when they're not as fat, but is that all there is to the thin privilege? Just superficial looks?

If it's just going to bring up poo poo though, maybe I should just drop it.

Health at every size is bullshit and anyone who spends time around fat people know it. They all seem to complain about migraines, sleep apnea, and get sick more often than normal people. Also, this health at every size crap is usually spouted by people 50+ pounds overweight, not 10-20.

gleep gloop
Aug 16, 2005

GROSS SHIT

Tiara posted:

I tend to avoid Tumblr on the basis that it's crap, but I thought that there was some logic to the fat acceptance movement if every weight was a healthy weight for different people. I understand how people can look better when they're not as fat, but is that all there is to the thin privilege? Just superficial looks?

If it's just going to bring up poo poo though, maybe I should just drop it.

A lot of the fat acceptance movement rages against eating disorders on the other end of the spectrum, Anorexia and such. There's a big difference between dangerously underweight, health, and a little plump, but they can't tell. Not fat? Ugh twig, you're unhealthy and more prone to certain diseases.

365 Nog Hogger
Jan 19, 2008


Official Dorkroom Mod-Approved Arbiter Of What Is And Is Not Art, 2014


Icon Of Sin posted:

they don't want people to remind them of the poor life choices that led them to that point.

The idea of the independent subject whose decisions are uninfluenced by their surroundings is a fiction, life is not a series of equally distributed choices with a universally available or correct answer.

ZoneManagement
Sep 25, 2005
Forgive me father for I have sinned

It's a horrible situation. It isn't as easy to kick sugar as people think. It doesn't make it right, but it is what it is.

polpot saved asia
Aug 28, 2011


I think we can all agree that this:




Should die in a fire.

Ruddha
Jan 21, 2006

when you realize how cool and retarded everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky

Being obese generally points to a series of immense, enduring personal failings, and unlike something like smoking which people can kinda get away with, being obese makes you fairly immediately repulsive to the vast majority of humans because you've thoroughly distorted and broken the form of a human person into a lovely golem type creature.

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


Modern society has a lot of problems with educating the populace about what is good to eat and dousing everyone in high sugar and fatty foods that manipulate your brain like a drug. A lot of people also work incredibly long hours, meaning they're too tired to prepare good dishes and tend to eat fast food or pre-made dinner sets. There's also a serious problem with food deserts, where communities simply don't have access to fresh fruits, vegetables and so on. This causes a population with increasingly rates of obesity while still suffering from mal-nutrition because all the crap they eat doesn't have much nutritional value.

People in the U.S. are fat AND suffering from diseases that happen to people with low access to food.

The solution isn't to accept "fat lifestyles" because that is simply glorifying the heinous way in which the modern society has maimed the human body. The solution are less work hours, less promotion of poo poo food, more provisions of healthy food and a generalized nutritional instruction, probably starting on school and support to exercise programs, either by building work-out machines in parks, state-subsidized gyms for obese people or simply having all fatties run on hamster wheels to create electricity to their communities.

This is obviously referring to people who are Fat. Not having perfect chiseled muscles doesn't mean you're fat, it means you're a regular human being. When your neck looks like an heavy bag, your arms wobble when you wave or when you can't see your dick when you look down is wen you are fat. When you have an rear end bellow your belly-button. Basically, when you're visually disgusting to any regular human being.

365 Nog Hogger
Jan 19, 2008


Official Dorkroom Mod-Approved Arbiter Of What Is And Is Not Art, 2014


polpot saved asia posted:

I think we can all agree that this:




Should die in a fire.

No, I don't think anyone should die in a fire, especially not simply because I dislike their appearance.

Ruddha
Jan 21, 2006

when you realize how cool and retarded everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky

Reichstag posted:

No, I don't think anyone should die in a fire, especially not simply because I dislike their appearance.

I'm going to tell it to you the best way I know how: I think he was exaggerating and didn't actually hope to see that person die.

365 Nog Hogger
Jan 19, 2008


Official Dorkroom Mod-Approved Arbiter Of What Is And Is Not Art, 2014


Ruddha posted:

I'm going to tell it to you the best way I know how: I think he was exaggerating and didn't actually hope to see that person die.

Someone being disingenuous on the internet? I do not believe it.

ALL-PRO SEXMAN
Nov 8, 2006

Veni, vidi, Lombardi.


Also it's very hard to set things on fire when they're underwater.

Ruddha
Jan 21, 2006

when you realize how cool and retarded everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky

Reichstag posted:

Someone being disingenuous on the internet? I do not believe it.

I'm sorry. This life is a difficult process, full of wonder and understanding; or, one of misunderstanding, which I honestly think in this case may have occurred. Thank you for your bravery moving forward.

Icon Of Sin
Dec 26, 2008



Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Also it's very hard to set things on fire when they're underwater.

Point of fact: people-fat doesn't burn as well as whale-fat

Avshalom
Feb 14, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 17 days!


Fat acceptance/positivity are built on good intentions but have been skewed into a poisonous, self-serving and socially irresponsible movement by the online "social justice" echo chamber.

Obesity is associated with laziness and poor impulse control. While a lot of middle-class fat people are lazy and weak-willed, there's also a lot of other contributing factors - poverty, time constraints on exercise, disabilities, medications - that link weight directly to class, which is in turn linked to race, gender identity, isolation, and all those other things. It's a really multifaceted issue that nobody's prepared yet to deal with, especially not the fuckwits on Tumblr.

An impoverished kid in an inner-city food desert who's being raised on chips and Hot Pockets, because their parents can't afford fresh meat, have no education about nutrition, and don't have the time to learn, is going to end up obese and obesity's going to be one of the factors that keeps them in that hole for the rest of their lives. Stigmatising obesity isn't going to help that kid. That's the argument that the fat activists like to whip out when asked about their motives, but it is true.

Do any research at all into obesity and you'll see fat activists come streaming into the comments section, screaming everybody down and linking to unreferenced, badly-written "articles" - usually blog posts, often on Tumblr! - that "prove" that obesity has no effects on health and is often beneficial, and must be right because the writer swears a lot and is obviously angry. They're totally wrong. Obesity is a huge health problem. You have to really search hard to find a qualified doctor who's even ambivalent on the issue. Telling the food desert kid to love and embrace their fat because it's healthy isn't going to help them either, especially not when they're 40 years old with ruined knees and diabetes and a few kids of their own who are also going to be raised on chips and Hot Pockets because nobody ever taught them any better. Not a lot of people suffering from poverty-related weight issues can drag themselves out of that without help, and although publicising the health effects of obesity is pretty confronting and hurtful and not really very helpful, it's still one of the only ways anyone's come up with to motivate the public. The fat activists are trying to deliberately counteract that. That's what I mean by social irresponsibility.

It's a stupid, ridiculous movement. You just have to ask yourself why they chose this cause of all causes. Why not smoking? Why not skin whitening or de-racialising cosmetic surgery, which solve no problem, are damaging in their own right, and tie directly into minority rights (major social justice points!) Why are they choosing to defend the right of people to destroy their health with obesity, often not even caring that those same people haven't been given the right not to be obese? Because they're all loving fat and selfish themselves!

Tumblr is terrible.

E: Also, fat activism online pretty much exploded at the same time as the social justice scene, where white people started flooding into online minority spaces. Why? Because middle-class white people's words don't mean much in that context, and that's something they're not accustomed to. If they can get "fat" recognised as a minority group, suddenly they can claim that they've experienced discrimination and they feel their words have meaning.

E2: I don't know what groups you belong to, OP, but don't ever let some fat activist tell you that you're more privileged than them by virtue of being thin.

polpot saved asia
Aug 28, 2011


Ruddha posted:

I'm going to tell it to you the best way I know how: I think he was exaggerating and didn't actually hope to see that person die.

Oh no. I fully meant what I said. Hell give me the lighter and gasoline and ill loving light them my self.

ghost bones
Apr 27, 2013

everyone is fabulous always


Fat people are gross and stink and you shouldn't be one.

Please don't be fat. Lift a weight or jog a block.

Ruddha
Jan 21, 2006

when you realize how cool and retarded everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky

polpot saved asia posted:

Oh no. I fully meant what I said. Hell give me the lighter and gasoline and ill loving light them my self.

Frankly that's a bit body shaming. Hahaha just kidding, I'm adopting the term with ironic purpose.

PRL412
Sep 11, 2007

... ... MINE

Fat Acceptance/Thin Privilege is an American centric issue. Paula Deen is a prime example of the situation that country is in right now. She has her own cooking show, but ended up with Type 2 diabetes due to her obviously sub-par eating habits. I'm sure her food is delicious, but a little goes a long way.

It really doesn't help when the American Medical Association decides that obesity is a disease. This just opens the floodgates for pharmaceutical companies, instead relying on the dietitians and nutritionists that overweight people need to get healthy.

To be clear, there is no thin privilege, but overweight people could use more acceptance. These are habits that are formed from childhood, and their parents were ultimately responsible for teaching a balanced diet and regular exercise until they began fending for themselves. Even for a willing participant, these habits take time to unravel.

Of course, some the top food scientists are working to craft the most addictive processed foods in the world. There's a great book that came out this year called Salt Sugar Fat (it was featured on the Daily Show) that goes into detail about how they make fast food so addictive.

Blue Star
Feb 18, 2013


There's no such thing as thin privilege. Being privileged basically means that you're either advantaged in some specific way, or you're not disadvantaged in some specific way, and it comes down to factors outside of your control. You can be privileged in one area but lack privilege in another aspect of your life. A white male can still be gay or disabled or mentally ill (in a debilitating way, not rear end-burgers syndrome) or born into poverty. A black woman can still be straight and able-bodied and born into a middle class or even upper class family. The gay white guy will have white and male privilege, but face discrimination because of his sexual orientation. The straight black woman will experience racism and sexism, but wouldn't have to personally worry about anti-gay prejudice. This is simplified but that's the basic idea behind it.

But fat people aren't an oppressed group. People say that poorer people are more likely to be fat, so that means fat people are disadvantaged. But the poor people are disadvantaged because they're poor, and the fact that they're more likely to be overweight and unhealthy is a symptom of that. The poverty came first. Fat people as a group aren't disadvantaged, though certain disadvantaged demographics suffer from higher rates of obesity and malnutrition than certain advantaged groups.

Now, I do agree that society has an unhealthy attitude towards weight. I don't think people should be mocked or ridiculed for being fat. More compassion is needed. But "fat acceptance" is bullshit. Being obese is not a good thing.

Dr Scoofles
Dec 6, 2004



Thin women cop a load of poo poo too you know. Overweight people love sounding off about how slimmer women are all 'skinny bitches' and 'need to eat a sandwich'. My Facebook feed is rammed full of stupid macros complaining about how thin women are all unhappy skanks or something because being slim must mean they are anorexic and obsessed with their figures. I have a friend who is very beautiful and model thin and she gets frozen out and verbally abused all the time, dismissed as fake, stupid and shallow simply because of the face and body she was born with.

edit - she isn't by the way. She's super nice, caring, hard working and talented.

Click Beelay
Oct 13, 2011



the gently caress is this

big duck equals goose
Nov 7, 2006

FUCK NOOBS


I love fat women because they are easier to have sex with due to self esteem issues and a lack of options.


Truly, I live in a golden age of man.

Prince Reggie K
Feb 12, 2007

I've been denied all the best Ultra-Sex.

Fat people are the reason I can't find clothes that fit.
Fat people are the reason I have to sort through 6 different, disgusting low fat/non fat/low sugar/no sugar alternatives before finding my regular food.
Related: I have to listen to fat middle age women complain about trying to lose weight all day at work.
My office literally shakes when fat people walk by, and sometimes when several of them are in the same room I ponder the structural integrity of the building.

How's this for discrimination - My work offers free weight watchers if they lose enough weight, well as an underweight man, I'm disappointed that they won't reimburse me to go on a specialized diet with a trainer to gain weight.

Now: To be fair. Obesity is a difficult problem to fix and I don't think they should be discriminated against. But given the choice between two equal or even relatively equal hires. Why WOULD you hire the fat one?

Stayton
May 20, 2006

A girl who will put you in a full nelson is worth fighting for.

Icon Of Sin posted:

The logic to the "Fat acceptance" movement is that they don't want people to remind them of the poor life choices that led them to that point...

Okay, time for my anecdotal two cents on this topic. Anyone who thinks fat shaming or some kinda idiotic weigh in tax is going to somehow fix this problem. Is so wrong on so many levels I can only attribute it to trolling. I'm going to share my personal story a here to illustrate the problem with this line of thinking.

I was a bit overweight as a young child. Say in the twenty to thirty pound range. When I look back at those pictures now, even calling myself husky would be a stretch. I was just carrying a few more pounds than average.

In my case though both my family and my peer group decided shame is what I needed to hit my ideal section of the BMI. My food intake was closely monitored by parents and teachers alike. Extracurricular exercise was required, and I saw many doctors about my obesity problem. All of who offered what I would learn years later was a terrible nutritional advice. This was back when low fat/high sugar was king of the diet trend bandwagon.

Teasing and criticism of my weight was actively encouraged in my family. I was excluded from many partaking in family treats, and rarely allowed to order as I pleased in restaurants. I think this came to a head when in the middle of my awkward adolescent years my father told me no girl would ever like me because of my weight "personality be damned" he said.

Do you think this motivated me to loose weight? Of course not. I developed an eating disorder. For nearly ten years of my life I refused to touch food in front of anyone. When I did get a chance to eat in private, there was of course binging. I never hoarded food, as my father started checking for that before the idea ever crossed my mind. He was marine thurough in this task.

These trends continued into adulthood. When I ate without judging eyes upon me I ate poorly, excessively, and without enjoyment. I can best describe it as an act of defiance, or a suicidal kind of revenge. At my heaviest I weighed an estimated 500 pounds (I exceeded the maximum weight of a 450 pound scale quite handily) I ceased social interaction entirely, except for school and work, and was within a hair's breadth of becoming a thousand pound shut in.

At this point in my life several things happened that led me to making positive changes of my own accord. I happened to read an academic text on nutrition and learned everything I thought I knew about it was a load of poo poo. I took up hiking as a hobby. I also got over a lot of self doubt and rid myself of a very self destructive mind set.

I shed and kept off around 200 pounds for ten years now. It's still a daily struggle most people don't understand. My job is very sedentary, and the hours and stresses of it make exercise difficult, though I do my best. I keep a food journal. I have from time to time indulged the idea of getting gastric bypass surgery, but I would rather not go through that radical procedure.

On a final ironic note, I am the only man who is even overweight, let alone obese in my family. I am also the only one who isn't diabetic, and one of the few not looking heart disease dead in the eye.

Now to answer your question OP: in my career I can provide to good examples of ways I've been discriminated against in my professional life. At my job we are lucky enough to get a tray of fee meals for in our workers. I usually just bring my own lunch, but as I passed through the kitchen I noticed that they had a meal that was both diet friendly and something I really like. (Salmon, I think.) As it was well within diet parameters, and I'd missed breakfast that day, I took a plate and ate it on my beak. Then had another on my lunch. I emphasize this happened under unusual circumstances two years ago.
Recently, I learned that through office gossip this has balooned into an epic tale of my insatiable gluttony, and is apparently something I do regularly. I am a union shop steward at my job, and I think maybe management perpetuated this myth to promote the image of the fate lazy union worker. This has brought a lot of old feelings back. Including the idea that even if it's just a salad, I can't let anyone see me eat it, as every thin person has an opinion about what dressing I should have used.


The second is the old saw about how fat people are lazy. I have put in for multiple promotions at my job. I do excellent work in a timely fashion at a higher level of quality than my peers however I have been overlooked in favor of less seasoned workers with a better look than me. I found myself in a bit of a financial jam, (needed money to get married) and had to take a second job within my industry of choice. My original employer was beyond unaccommodating (this Eventually led to an upheld NLRB complaint) So for nearly two years I worked an average of 64 hours a week. This included three double shifts a week. This results in vastly reduced energy reserves and performance, which instead of intetperating as a show of drive, ambition and initiative my employer chalked up to laziness. I think this was in particular because at my second job I was doing a job I'd been told I was not qualified for by my first employer six months prior.

I hope people found my perspective on this issue informative at least. As a final thought I think we should tackle the obesity problem in America by encouraging employers to offer fewer hours, increased pay, and perhaps smoking some kind of voluntary peer counseling available to workers. We should also reexamine how and what we allow to be bought with food stamps. The current model almost actively discourages healthy eating.

Click Beelay
Oct 13, 2011



I was fat in school too, smoking and joining in on sports instead of eating tuck shop pies and watching fixed that

Smoke fat people

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Arian_Samurai
Jan 21, 2004

third place is still pretty damn good

Stayton posted:

I hope people found my perspective on this issue informative at least. As a final thought I think we should tackle the obesity problem in America by encouraging employers to offer fewer hours, increased pay, and perhaps smoking some kind of voluntary peer counseling available to workers.

Would I have to be fat to receive these benefits, or would the increase in pay for less work be available by default? How fat would I have to be to receive said benefits. Like Jack Black "sort of fat" fat, or Harry Knowles "oh my God what happened to you man" fat.

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