|
The main character honestly reminds me of people who legit have borderline personality disorder. Personality disorders tend to be....egosyntonic...which means its hard for the sufferer to understand what the problem is. Kind of makes me feel bad for her. Also a few of the things she has trouble with seem like their worse for her because she's a girl?? That expectation that she NEEDS to be with a man, NEEDS to be cute, the over importance on her virginity like in the 1-2-3 forest game. For those reasons I kind of reserve judgement on at least the anime version of her. Not sure if the manga version would be more of a questionable person to me.(havent read it)
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2013 19:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 02:05 |
|
|
Well, I've just watched the first episode of this. It's full of that second-hand embarrassment that's a mix of hilarious and terrible and uncomfortable. It's like anime Inbetweeners, only she has no friends. Well, so far anyway. Definitely going to have to keep watching this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2013 20:37
|
|
|
Bozatam posted:For those reasons I kind of reserve judgement on at least the anime version of her. Not sure if the manga version would be more of a questionable person to me.(havent read it) The only real difference between the anime and manga so far is that the manga has a cruder style. The script is mostly unchanged but a lot of scenes have more flourish to them because Silver Link is kind of like Shaft-lite.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2013 21:19
|
|
|
Really gotta hand it to Silver Link, they're doing a bang up job keeping things interesting visually. From the STEALTH MOKO scene to the water effect when she's hiding out underneath the awning and can't stand how awkward she is it's all pretty loving neat. And it's been said before but her VA is doing a fantastic job. Easily my favorite show of the season right here.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2013 21:55
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:That's a big part of the appeal, really. She's not unpopular because of some cutesy-endearing awkwardness; she actually is an unpleasant person. You can sympathise with her crushing loneliness, but also laugh at things going badly for her, 'cause it has this slapstick quality. That's a great way of putting it, and yeah, you're absolutely right. If anything, I'm finding that it makes the character far more relateable than the typical, clumsy, 'quiet moe girl' that in other circumstances she'd probably be shoehorned into as a character. She's not endearing on every safe, fanservice-baiting level - she's legitimately insecure, socially broken, and selfish, which makes her infinitely more human. Character, not caricature. The result is that I'm rooting for this girl to succeed, even if I would have never been her friend if I met someone like her.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2013 23:20
|
|
|
I honestly would have still been her friend, I've had a few friendships with people like her. Just I don't know how close I could be to them. It would possibly be like a Yuu-Chan type relationship were obviously their friends but Yuu-Chan is somewhat distant.(though in her case by no fault of her own) I'd probably straight up tell her she might want to see counseling though...but if someone legit had a personality disorder they wouldn't take that well. A person with not personality related depression or anxiety disorders would understand(they tend to recognize something is wrong) but Tomoko doesn't seem very self-aware?? Man, anime psychology.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2013 23:55
|
|
|
Harettazetta posted:That's a great way of putting it, and yeah, you're absolutely right. If anything, I'm finding that it makes the character far more relateable than the typical, clumsy, 'quiet moe girl' that in other circumstances she'd probably be shoehorned into as a character. She's not endearing on every safe, fanservice-baiting level - she's legitimately insecure, socially broken, and selfish, which makes her infinitely more human. Character, not caricature. I feel like that's one of the main reasons I keep watching, some distant hope that maybe it will work out for her in the end. Sadly, I doubt it actually happens.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2013 23:59
|
|
|
If Tomoko were American she'd definitely post on TVTropes. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 00:04
|
|
|
Who was it that visited her at home?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 00:14
|
|
|
Davincie posted:Who was it that visited her at home? Package delivery.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 00:16
|
|
|
ninja e: ^^^ Oh, that tooDavincie posted:Who was it that visited her at home? You mean her brother's classmates? They were taking homework(or something) to him.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 00:17
|
|
|
Ah yeah I meant the package delivery. The subtitles left that untranslated for some reason and googling 'Zagawa' just turns up a tribe in Sudan.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 00:47
|
|
|
Davincie posted:Ah yeah I meant the package delivery. The subtitles left that untranslated for some reason and googling 'Zagawa' just turns up a tribe in Sudan. Zagawa is probably some kind of pun on Amazon Japan, or maybe deliveryman.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 01:20
|
|
|
Davincie posted:Ah yeah I meant the package delivery. The subtitles left that untranslated for some reason and googling 'Zagawa' just turns up a tribe in Sudan. It's a pun on Sagawa Delivery.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 01:45
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:That's a big part of the appeal, really. She's not unpopular because of some cutesy-endearing awkwardness; she actually is an unpleasant person. You can sympathise with her crushing loneliness, but also laugh at things going badly for her, 'cause it has this slapstick quality. Well yeah that definitely is the appeal; that's why I like this series. That statement was more directed at the people who find this whole series too uncomfortable to watch themselves, because it reminds them too much of themselves. The Devil Tesla posted:I'm not saying that she's blameless, part of what makes her a great character is how she sabotages herself, but she was never taught how not to do that. What makes David Brent a great character is that he obviously had basic skills like this at one point, and then completely lost them the moment a camera was pointed at him. This is a little different! I don't think The Office ever implied that David was any less annoying or incompetent before the cameras were on him; but lets not get on an Office derail. Anyway I think the comparison still fits because what makes Tomoko and David so funny is the fact that they are kind of bad people who treat those around them kind of lovely, and how oblivious they are to this fact.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 02:17
|
|
|
Stalin-Chan posted:Well yeah that definitely is the appeal; that's why I like this series. That statement was more directed at the people who find this whole series too uncomfortable to watch themselves, because it reminds them too much of themselves. Well sympathy isn't the same thing as empathy. It's quite possible to empathize with her without condoning her actions or thinking she's pitiable. We're all human after all. She's an unpleasant person but then she's also a teenager, and teenagers are by default unpleasant people. I think it's funny how divisive she is with some imagining her as some misunderstood special snowflake who's a helpless victim of anxiety in a cold uncaring world while others imagine her as a hateful misanthrope who deserves all the bad things that happen to her. The truth, of course, is somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. Super Jay Mann fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jul 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 04:42
|
|
|
Super Jay Mann posted:Well sympathy isn't the same thing as empathy. It's quite possible to empathize with her without condoning her actions or thinking she's pitiable. We're all human after all. She's an unpleasant person but then she's also a teenager, and teenagers are by default unpleasant people. The middle ground doesn't exist on the Internet. And some Goons identify with her, some don't, some probably do and don't like that they do, some just want to watch the awkward girl be perverted and weird for comedic effect. I am really enjoying Silver Link's artistic flourishes, especially the "Just kill me now" Picassoface.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 05:04
|
|
|
Zogundar posted:Written before saw below reply: Characters can look all sorts of ways, just like latin letters we use in English. It's actually not a "lazy" kanji but just more handwrite-y and sort of calligraphy-ish instead of super standard on your computer screen typeface. Here are a bunch of 自s in calligraphy (grass script) style by a bunch of famous people and calligraphers. Funfacts: Mao Zedong's is the first one on the top left, and the 4th down on the left is Wang Xizhi's, who pretty much is the "god" of calligraphy and lived in like 300AD. You can see the basic structure of that 自 in the show isn't too far off from a lot of those ones on that page. Anyway, enough of my character ranting  I really love this show, but as someone who had a lot of social anxiety in high school and my early university years it gets really uncomfortable to watch sometimes. I guess that just means it's really good, though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 05:18
|
|
|
Magna Kaser posted:Characters can look all sorts of ways, just like latin letters we use in English. It's actually not a "lazy" kanji but just more handwrite-y and sort of calligraphy-ish instead of super standard on your computer screen typeface. Here are a bunch of 自s in calligraphy (grass script) style by a bunch of famous people and calligraphers. Funfacts: Mao Zedong's is the first one on the top left, and the 4th down on the left is Wang Xizhi's, who pretty much is the "god" of calligraphy and lived in like 300AD. You can see the basic structure of that 自 in the show isn't too far off from a lot of those ones on that page. Are the strokes different when written in Chinese or something? I don't remember the stroke on the right turning again at the bottom in Japanese; I thought that in Japanese it only turns once at the upper right and then there are three horizontal strokes (with the bottom of the rectangle being a horizontal stroke rather than a continuation of the top/right).
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 05:55
|
|
|
I'm surprised no one has posted about this yet. So in the latest episode you can quite cleary see that tomoko has imagined up a Animal Crossing setting for her imagination sequence. Incoming screenshots. Look at the flowers and houses in this one.  The floating present mail thing is a dead give away in that one.  Also I like this picture.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 10:34
|
|
|
Zetsubou posted:I'm surprised no one has posted about this yet. So in the latest episode you can quite cleary see that tomoko has imagined up a Animal Crossing setting for her imagination sequence. Incoming screenshots. I also felt that the 'sniper' sequence was a little bit of a homage to Ghost in the Shell (or at least Stand Alone Complex), even if that's not true, that's definitely an Animal Crossing reference. Looks like they're sneaking in a few nods here and there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 10:40
|
|
|
Zetsubou posted:I'm surprised no one has posted about this yet. So in the latest episode you can quite cleary see that tomoko has imagined up a Animal Crossing setting for her imagination sequence. Incoming screenshots. I like how CR translated it totally wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 10:44
|
|
|
I watch this show because of the thrill I get in seeing the sheer amount of angst and ressentiment that emanates from Tomoko like a malignant cloud; I've never seen such a hateful person in a slice of life anime. It's like Catcher in the Rye for otaku teenagers. She's such a disturbed and broken individual! It always feels like at any moment she is on the verge of just flipping out and strangling someone.
DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jul 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 14:44
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:I watch this show because of the thrill I get in seeing the sheer amount of angst and ressentiment that emanates from Tomoko like a malignant cloud; I've never seen such a hateful person in a slice of life anime. It's like Catcher in the Rye for otaku teenagers. She's such a disturbed and broken individual! It always feels like at any moment she is on the verge of just flipping out and strangling someone. Then she finds her umbrella and everything is fine again.  I also felt like the sniper sequence was very Ghost in the Shell-like with the exception of the inner monologue.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 14:52
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:It always feels like at any moment she is on the verge of just flipping out and strangling someone. Except that she'd be too embarrassed to actually, physically touch another person.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 15:39
|
|
|
If you want a perfect encapsulation of the main character, just watch the scene where she goes to get her umbrella at school again. Most of her problems are her own fault and exist solely in her head.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 15:59
|
|
|
There was another Animal Crossing reference that gave me a big laugh. Something about finding someone who'd left their gates open and chopping down all their trees. Same art style and everything. And I agree, Silver Link are great. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 16:01
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:If you want a perfect encapsulation of the main character, just watch the scene where she goes to get her umbrella at school again. Most of her problems are her own fault and exist solely in her head. That's pretty much it. She isn't an Outcast(at least from the episodes shown). People aren't actively trying to make her and her unpopular. Everyone else is just doing their own thing and not following her script of what should and shouldn't happen. They show that in the OP as well with her chained and labeled while people just walk by. I'd say I relate mainly to that aspect of her. In my first year of high school I was rather awkward and couldn't get into groups very well. After a while I just stopped trying and did my own thing. Alpha Kenny Juan fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jul 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 16:38
|
|
|
The rain scene with the 2 guys was painful for me to watch because I'm kinda still like that when stuck in any kind of space with people. Though that's what headphones are for.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 17:20
|
|
|
Super Jay Mann posted:I think it's funny how divisive she is with some imagining her as some misunderstood special snowflake who's a helpless victim of anxiety in a cold uncaring world while others imagine her as a hateful misanthrope who deserves all the bad things that happen to her. The truth, of course, is somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. She's obviously not in a cold uncaring world though. Most of the characters other than Tomoko seem like pretty nice people. Most of her problems seem totally invented in her head. Nobody has really been unkind or anything to her so far. Alpha Kenny Juan posted:I also felt like the sniper sequence was very Ghost in the Shell-like with the exception of the inner monologue. Yeah I was getting the same kind of vibe. It also kind of reminds me of the anime sequence in Kill Bill where anime Lucy Liu was sniping that guy from the roof. MadRhetoric posted:some just want to watch the awkward girl be perverted and weird for comedic effect. This is pretty much why I think this show is the best. Also the art is pretty great considering how simple it can look, not mind blowing or anything but I enjoy it. Stalin-Chan fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jul 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 17:30
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Are the strokes different when written in Chinese or something? I don't remember the stroke on the right turning again at the bottom in Japanese; I thought that in Japanese it only turns once at the upper right and then there are three horizontal strokes (with the bottom of the rectangle being a horizontal stroke rather than a continuation of the top/right). Japan uses a simplified version of Chinese characters, for the most part. For example 国 is Japanese for "country", while it is 國 in Chinese.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 17:40
|
|
|
Aku posted:Japan uses a simplified version of Chinese characters, for the most part. For example 国 is Japanese for "country", while it is 國 in Chinese. 国 is also the "simplified" Chinese character for "country", while 國 is the "traditional" Chinese character for country.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:17
|
|
|
Stalin-Chan posted:Nobody has really been unkind or anything to her so far. She did get that indirect insult from one of her brother's friends. You can't call her bullied, but it's not like there's no external reason for her problems. Although yea, a lot of that is attitude.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 19:51
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:Most of her problems are her own fault and exist solely in her head. Alpha Kenny Juan posted:That's pretty much it. She isn't an Outcast(at least from the episodes shown). People aren't actively trying to make her and her unpopular. Everyone else is just doing their own thing and not following her script of what should and shouldn't happen. They show that in the OP as well with her chained and labeled while people just walk by. Stalin-Chan posted:Most of her problems seem totally invented in her head.  Come on guys, you're posting what is pretty much the point, premise and punchline of the series as though it's a deep revelation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 20:03
|
|
|
Namtab posted:
Yeah that is what I was doing. I never presented it as if it was a big revelation. From the beginning I was merely pointing out that people shouldn't feel bad watching this show just because they identify with some parts of Tomoko. She's the classic schlemiel type comedy character taken to extreme levels.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 20:22
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:I watch this show because of the thrill I get in seeing the sheer amount of angst and ressentiment that emanates from Tomoko like a malignant cloud; I've never seen such a hateful person in a slice of life anime. It's like Catcher in the Rye for otaku teenagers. She's such a disturbed and broken individual! It always feels like at any moment she is on the verge of just flipping out and strangling someone. You should watch Aku no Hana.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 22:19
|
|
|
Or read it, if the anime's art-style doesn't agree with you. Its use of rotoscoping is pretty hit or miss.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 22:52
|
|
|
MadRhetoric posted:You should watch Aku no Hana. Does that have an Anime Original Ending? I see the manga is still publishing according to MAL. Or was this a joke suggestion and it's bad ::avoid avoid avoid:: As for the Discomfort part of the anime, I dunno, I feel like I went through a lot of the same things (And still would probably hate being in the rain shelter situation on some level.) And usually in narratives where the protagonist or whoever is doing something horrifically embarrassing I'm acting like "oh God gotta look away, ohh no, ohh nooo." But for some reason this show/manga doesn't trigger that in me. For the life of me I can't figure out why. I feel like by all rights it should. Maybe I am just too far chronologically removed from those kind of events nowadays? 
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 23:38
|
|
|
Zogundar posted:Does that have an Anime Original Ending? I see the manga is still publishing according to MAL. Or was this a joke suggestion and it's bad ::avoid avoid avoid:: It's amazing. Once you get past the initial shock of the rotoscoping, the whole things comes together into something wonderful. And yea, it follows the manga pretty closely, it just ends at a part that kind of works as an ending (even though the manga goes beyond that).
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 23:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 02:05 |
|
|
The Devil Tesla posted:She did get that indirect insult from one of her brother's friends. You can't call her bullied, but it's not like there's no external reason for her problems. Although yea, a lot of that is attitude.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2013 00:11
|
|
