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I think it's just harder for people to relate to Nidaime. Let's face it. Most of us are geeky guys (to varying extents). We can see different shades of ourselves in most if not all of the old cast. It was easy to get into and felt really personal. But now? It's incredibly difficult to personally relate to any of the new characters (Madarame doesn't count since he's from the old cast). Kio is a great storyteller, and Nidaime is still a great story, but it lacks the sort of personal connection to get people really into it. Some stories do alright without that sort of connection. But if you want to write a story your audience won't personally relate to but still want it to sell, I think you have to write something where the reader will want to self-insert into the story. That's why harems and incest stories (or the combination!) are so popular. Hell, at ANY given time there's 1-3 threads in /a/ full of neckbeards raging about a certain combo harem/incest series that ended months ago. Who would want to self-insert as Madarame? Hato? No body. Of course great art usually is unappreciated. I just hope Kio has enough to eat. sincx fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 09:22
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I've continued to read Genshiken TNG but I have to say, the INTENSE (it's pretty intense) focus on Hato is weird to me. The first incarnation of the book did a pretty decent job of balancing things out with the entire cast,from Ohno and her stupid terribleness, Saki gradually learning that not all otaku should die in a fire, Madarame learning to act more like a human being, and then the Ogi/Sasahara romance wrapping it up. Conversely, Nidaime has pretty squarely been focused around Hato--even the biggest secondary thread, Madarame's questionable time of adjusting to normal life and unexpected romantic prospects, is interwoven tightly with the Hato stuff for obvious reasons. It definitely FEELS like a different book, one built around a main character instead of an ensemble cast. I still think it's a good read, but it definitely feels more like "Hato Kenjirou and the Genshiken" instead
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Dec 10, 2013 09:28
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With the way I've seen some people talk about Genshiken you'd think that the characters are all six dimensional energy beings from an alternate plane of existence. They're still people with relatable problems and thought processes. Needing a character that's ~*just like me*~ to self insert into is ridiculous, it's the mentality that shits out such memorable Thin Young White Guy protagonists as Nathan Drake and Completely Featureless Harem Leads as gently caress I can't even remember any.
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Dec 10, 2013 20:58
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sincx posted:I'm beginning to think that Genshiken Nidaime is too niche for SA. Hell, even on 4chan, Genshiken threads die surprisingly quickly.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:54
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I don't really see how some people hate it so much. Hato's a much more interesting character than Sasahara ever was.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:00
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The first iteration didn't completely hinge upon liking Sasahara, though. You'd be hard pressed to even say he was the main character for much of the story.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:07
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Nate RFB posted:The first iteration didn't completely hinge upon liking Sasahara, though. You'd be hard pressed to even say he was the main character for much of the story. This times a thousand. You could have had the original Genshiken without Sasahara, as the rest of the cast had their own stories to tell. Outside of Hato and Madarame, the cast of this modern Genshiken feels shallow and uninteresting in comparison. Even then, Hato's story has been dragged out in such an irritating fashion at this point, even his story is disappointing.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:29
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Shinjobi posted:This times a thousand. You could have had the original Genshiken without Sasahara, as the rest of the cast had their own stories to tell. Outside of Hato and Madarame, the cast of this modern Genshiken feels shallow and uninteresting in comparison. Even then, Hato's story has been dragged out in such an irritating fashion at this point, even his story is disappointing. The author lampshaded this at one point himself:  So it's clear that even though Kio recognized the problem with his subtle shift in emphasis, he still went ahead with it.
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Dec 11, 2013 04:02
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I've watched this show from the beginning and I didn't have any problems with this season. It's not as good as the others but still pretty good. My dream ending would be if Mada, Saki, and Kousaka had a polyamorous relationship.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:32
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I enjoyed the latest season. The awkwardness between Hato, Yajima, and Madrame was interesting at least. I felt kinda bad for Madrame, in general, working that 9-5, alone forever. 
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Dec 17, 2013 04:57
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SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:I enjoyed the latest season. The awkwardness between Hato, Yajima, and Madrame was interesting at least. I felt kinda bad for Madrame, in general, working that 9-5, alone forever.
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Dec 17, 2013 11:38
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Raskolnikov posted:I thought it was important to show that you reap what you sow. Dang, what do you sow in the first place to get the attention of a couple foreign gals and a sexually confused cross-dresser?
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Dec 18, 2013 00:16
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Genshiken 95 raws are out, and it looks like it's going to be quite an interesting chapter for Genshiken Nidaime. There's page where Yoshitake asked Hato why he's crossdressing again, and (I *think*, correct me if I'm wrong) he answered that he wants Madarame to see him like this because it's cute. Like Yoshitake says at the end of the chapter, things are definitely heating up. We also see a bit of Sue's home life. She's a huge otoku (onanu?) whose room is even messier than Mada's. Also she looks quite unhappy thinking about what Hato said earlier in the day. I do sincerely hope that it's not a HatoxMada ending though. Kio, please don't make Genshiken into an actual yaoi series.
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Dec 21, 2013 07:49
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sincx posted:Genshiken 95 raws are out, and it looks like it's going to be quite an interesting chapter for Genshiken Nidaime. If you're talking about the bit where Hato is laughing then no, he's saying that the points in the list Yoshitake cooked up illustrating why Madarame is Bad Boyfriend Material just make him think that Madarame is adorable, and he's laughing at himself for his own silliness. The word otaku is based on お宅, not on otoko (男). It's gender neutral. Sue being a mega recluse outside of the Genshiken fits with what Ohno's said in the past about her being a loner, though, so I like it. Other than Madarame himself being straight, what is so wrong about two dudes hooking up? For what it's worth I don't see HatoMada being a thing because there's no attraction on Madarame's side, but the way you word it makes it seem you have a problem with the genders involved. Other than Hato being a guy there's nothing making it inherently worse than, say, Madarame x Sue or whatever.
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Dec 21, 2013 08:14
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AnonSpore posted:Other than Madarame himself being straight, what is so wrong about two dudes hooking up? For what it's worth I don't see HatoMada being a thing because there's no attraction on Madarame's side, but the way you word it makes it seem you have a problem with the genders involved. Other than Hato being a guy there's nothing making it inherently worse than, say, Madarame x Sue or whatever.
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Dec 21, 2013 10:02
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While I really wouldn't care if Madarame ended up with a dude, it would take a ton of chapters of soul searching for him to realize he's open to that. A ton of chapters, mind you, that I really don't feel like wasting after being dragged through Hato's molasses-paced inner turmoil. As it is, it would seem really jarring and dumb for Madarame to open up to dudes after spending an entire series and then some holding a torch for a woman. Not saying it's a character progression that couldn't happen, but I just couldn't see it turning out well at all.
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Dec 21, 2013 10:43
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Or, it could take one page where Hato kisses Mada, and Mada likes it. Then they get married and Hato gets pregnant like in the eroge.
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Dec 21, 2013 18:43
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Just curious - is there anyone that likes Nidaime more than the original?
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Dec 21, 2013 22:29
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I like them about the same, leaning more toward Nidaime.
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Dec 22, 2013 02:41
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First series easily. Maybe some rose-tinted glasses at work, but I felt the first series utilized its full cast better.
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Dec 22, 2013 03:00
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To be perfectly honest, to me it felt like half the cast of the original series weren't even characters to begin with. I mean, you've got fat-guy and ponytail-guy and the old president of the club who have never been relevant in any way (okay, ponytail-guy is Ohno's boring boyfriend). Kohsaka of course has never been a character either, being more of a plot device in terms of being the perfect, ideal otaku. Now, I won't deny that the characters who did get focus were spread out somewhat more evenly, probably because Sasahara isn't particularly interesting on his own, but even the side girls from the new season already have more "character" than half the cast of the original. Of course, being boring might be one of the reasons people found it easier to identify with them.
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Dec 23, 2013 10:30
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Clarste posted:Of course, being boring might be one of the reasons people found it easier to identify with them. To use a live action example, this is like what happened to Scrubs (and so many other sitcoms); the first couple of seasons were relatively down to earth and low-key, playing off of the strength of the actors and the freshness of the writing. But by the time they had got to the 5th season the material had run dry and everyone had become one-note, and to compensate everything had to be as Wacky! as possible.
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Dec 23, 2013 14:55
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There is some serious nostalgia going on when people think that characters like Kugayama and the first president were anywhere near being well characterized, let alone comparable to what even Yoshitake and Yajima (who are relatively minor characters compared to Hato and Madarame) have received in terms of fleshing out. And while we're talking about them, those two are pretty good examples of what the average fujoshi is like, with one sample from the "relatively quiet, not that proud of her hobby" end of the spectrum and one from the "loud, exuberant, extremely proud of being a fujoshi" end. I don't really understand how you can say they're "wacky" or "gimmicky" when they're basically two people you could reasonably expect to meet in an actual Genshiken (which have sprung up in various universities around Japan following the first series' run). Yes, Hato is an unconventional character, which I suppose you could call a gimmick, but that gimmick is being given serious plot time (which, humorously, has made many people complain that he should just make up his mind about whether he's gay or not) instead of being the standard "hey let's call this girl I drew a guy" character to put next to the the tsundere childhood friend and the mysterious transfer student in the list of character types to shove into a series and forget about actually fleshing out. Besides, the things he's struggling with, his socially unacceptable interests conflicting with his normal life, are things I feel Genshiken has always been about. That Hato's issues are related to his sexuality instead of, say, Ogiue's being about her guilt at driving away a friend with her "freakish" fantasies, doesn't really matter to me.
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Dec 23, 2013 16:08
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There are such things as "background" or "side" characters who are able to round out an ensemble but do not necessarily need to be developed as heavily as the more prominent characters. This is not a "fault" if they were not intended to be the focus in the first place; it's like getting upset that the student council(?) member who tried to shut the club down hasn't been developed as heavily. Both Kugayama and the president graduate very early and are largely irrelevant; the focus of the first Genshiken was always on Saki and to varying degrees Sasahara, Ohno, Madarame, and Ogiue. That is an enormous difference in both depth and variety compared to the second iteration. AnonSpore, have you read Wandering Son? That is an example of tackling a character like Hato and doing so seriously. Conversely Shimoku Kio seems only capable of treating Hato as a fetish, possessing neither the skill nor the tact to give his character the due diligence required.
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Dec 23, 2013 16:31
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Hato isn't treated as just a fetish. He's going through a serious crisis of sexual identity and orientation.
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Dec 23, 2013 17:07
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Nate RFB posted:There are such things as "background" or "side" characters who are able to round out an ensemble but do not necessarily need to be developed as heavily as the more prominent characters. This is not a "fault" if they were not intended to be the focus in the first place; it's like getting upset that the student council(?) member who tried to shut the club down hasn't been developed as heavily. Both Kugayama and the president graduate very early and are largely irrelevant; the focus of the first Genshiken was always on Saki and to varying degrees Sasahara, Ohno, Madarame, and Ogiue. That is an enormous difference in both depth and variety compared to the second iteration. And Nidaime's focus is on Hato and Madarame, who have been given large amounts of characterization; I was pointing out that Nidaime's side characters have enjoyed more characterization than those in similar positions in the original, and perhaps unfairly being snippy with people who have implied that the first Genshiken's wider variety of otaku interests (and while we're at that, it's pretty unfair to say characters like Kugayama and Tanaka represented many different otaku interests because they had liked drawing and photography/cosplaying, and then turn around and label all of the current Genshiken members as just "fujoshi" as if there is no variance between Yoshitake's maniacal love of history and Yajima's dabbling in art, but that's another matter) meant more character depth as well. I have read and enjoyed Hourou Musuko. I believe it's possible to treat a matter seriously without having it be Serious Time 24/7. Just because Hourou Musuko took one approach to gender issues (for the record, I think labeling Hato as a trans-female is sort of presumptuous, especially with the anime where I believe the official subs took the extra step of using female pronouns for him) doesn't mean that it's the only way to go about things. Besides, part of what Genshiken is dealing with is the clash of the fetishisized trap/otokonoko character type and actual homo/bisexuality. Of course there's going to be a lot of self-awareness involved when the intended audience is otaku who're already familiar with the character stereotype and the cliches that come with it--that doesn't mean that it's treated as a trifling thing at all. And Genshiken has always been a lighter kind of story, even at its most serious, so I can't fault it for inserting humor into things. What makes you say that Kio is incapable of tackle serious subject matter? He's done some seriously heavy stuff before (and after with Digopri, if you count the first run as a separate thing) Genshiken, which was received well critically though it wasn't the commercial success that Genshiken was/is. He's proven capable of doing it before, and I think that Hato's current issues (and to a lesser extent Madarame's clear inability to move on past a romantic interest, to the point where it starts to affect his life outside of romance) are being handled seriously enough if perhaps not with the gravity that you seem to expect. AnonSpore fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 17:54
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AnonSpore posted:And Nidaime's focus is on Hato and Madarame, who have been given large amounts of characterization; I was pointing out that Nidaime's side characters have enjoyed more characterization than those in similar positions in the original, and perhaps unfairly being snippy with people who have implied that the first Genshiken's wider variety of otaku interests (and while we're at that, it's pretty unfair to say characters like Kugayama and Tanaka represented many different otaku interests because they had liked drawing and photography/cosplaying, and then turn around and label all of the current Genshiken members as just "fujoshi" as if there is no variance between Yoshitake's maniacal love of history and Yajima's dabbling in art, but that's another matter) meant more character depth as well. coathat posted:Hato isn't treated as just a fetish. He's going through a serious crisis of sexual identity and orientation.
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Dec 23, 2013 19:08
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Nate RFB posted:Let me put it this way; just because a character is given more screentime or "depth" doesn't mean they become a more compelling character or replacement. It isn't a zero sum game anyway, it's not like Kio has simply swapped every character 1:1 with old to new. If anything there are far fewer side characters with as "little" characterization as Kugayama or the president making a direct comparison (at least in this one specific area) a waste of time. The entire range and dynamics of the new cast is completely different from the original to the point where we are really talking about two different products. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing, it could be interesting or just as good or better. Different doesn't have to be bad. But it will inevitably result in a dichotomy where the two are going to be compared. And when I do so, both the style and substance come off as shallow and trite in this new pass. What makes them a more compelling character or replacement, then? First you said that the characters felt like gimmicks, but if they are, then so were the first generation's--hell, the first Genshiken introduced far more wacky gimmick characters, to use your term, than Nidaime, in Kousaka, Sue, and Angela compared to Nidaime's Hato. Yes, they differ in that Hato is a main character instead of being in a supporting role, but his gimmick isn't relegated to being a gimmick despite his own best efforts--at this point his hobby and what it's led to have become serious issues that he's just recently begun to face. And as I stated above, I think that it's being treated well enough, which may be where you and I disagree. I mean, can you state a specific example of why you think the first generation's interactions were better instead of talking in generalizations? For example, I really like how Yoshitake and Yajima include Hato as part of the group in their Genshiken time with no (or few, in Yajima's case) quibbles, but frequently, outside of the circle, they're seen as a pair and not a trio, shooting the poo poo or just drinking without Hato, because at the end of the day he's a guy and they're girls. Several times Tanaka and Kugayama have also formed a similar unit with Madarame, because they're of the same year, specifically excluding Sasahara and sometimes Kuchiki as well, when he doesn't squeeze himself in somehow. There's the sense of small groups, or subsets, of close friends within a larger group of friends (the Genshiken), that I really like. It was there in the first series as well, of course, with Ohno and Saki's friendship, but I feel that it's definitely become a more strongly defined thing in Nidaime. So if we're talking about character dynamics, that's definitely one thing I really like more about Nidaime. And as for Spotted Flower, I don't see how you can say it's pandering and nothing but. Yes, it has humor, yes, it has sexuality, and of course you can tell that Kio is winking at the audience and barely bothering to conceal the fact that the husband and wife are meant to be Madarame and Saki in a parallel universe, but it also heavily features actual concerns that newlywed men feel--irrational fear of making love to a pregnant wife and the worry that one will prove to be a bad father chief among them. It's meant to poke fun at pregnancy, sex, and married life, which isn't entirely inappropriate considering the magazine it runs in is marketed towards adult women--that doesn't automatically mean that it fetishisizes it.
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Dec 23, 2013 20:18
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Genshiken Part 1 was ostensibly built around two cores: Saki and Ogiue, how they fit in within the group and outside of it, and how everyone grew as a part of their trials and tribulations. One of my favorite original chapters was when Madarame ran into Saki outside of club and acted like he didn't know her, which upset Saki a lot, ultimately resulting in them growing closer. Sasahara himself was also more or less defined by his interactions with Ogiue, which not so coincidentally also coincided with his brief presidency. These two cores were then supported by a bevy of subplots, most contributed to by Ohno or Madarame, such as when Madarame had to get a job (something that would continue being a thing in Nidaime, one of the few things I like about it). And stepping back even further, the whole thing was in the context of them getting through college; so the graduation in volume 9 was just about the most perfect and bittersweet way to end it. I would certainly say that I preferred this simpler set of themes and developments. It was a fun, amusing story that didn't wear itself out.AnonSpore posted:It's meant to poke fun at pregnancy, sex, and married life, which isn't entirely inappropriate considering the magazine it runs in is marketed towards adult women--that doesn't automatically mean that it fetishisizes it.
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Dec 23, 2013 21:31
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 I can totally see the Genshiken having this argument about the old vs. new Genshiken.
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Dec 25, 2013 06:36
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The OVA is out, by the way. A very nice episode covering the first half of volume 9 of the original series. Sigh, it's sad being a Genshiken fan. The thread is either in-fighting or sinking into oblivion.
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Dec 28, 2013 05:21
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sincx posted:The OVA is out, by the way. A very nice episode covering the first half of volume 9 of the original series. Is it streaming?
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Dec 28, 2013 08:16
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On the bonus OVA: Lovely seeing this material animated. Again, I wish the whole manga had been this nicely animated. Little details like "Sisters Complex" on the merch are just one example of how a little extra work adds extra humor and depth. It's also kind of sweet seeing the old (young?) Ogiue awkwardly blabber and parse her feelings. Her character has really grown up and taken charge in Nidaime. Madarame is genuinely moe with his "I wonder where the other group is" line while turning his head like he doesn't care, and it's made all the more transparent when he goes into his old Mada-rant mode. He's subliminally tsundere and that's about as sou-uke as it gets. As for the billionth discussion of "Has Hato ruined Genshiken forever?/Has Kio Shimoku fallen off?," I have to say Kio explicitly reveals a lot more about the motivations of new side-characters than I think we had in the original series, and has kept the cast tight to make sure it stays focused. Even Kuchiki has more backstory at this point than Kuga ever got. Yoshitake and especially Yajima are getting the kind of development that Mada was getting when he was secondary to main arcs of Sasahara and Ogiue. That development really makes me look forward to the fall out of the Mada confessions as the chapters continue. Kio is nothing if not more than willing to sow plot seeds that flower over the course of years, so I don't doubt there will be interesting payouts eventually. I think in Hato's case, precisely because the audience can't come at it from "I'm an otaku like Sasa/I'm a fujoshi like Ogiue," he's really trying not to trivialize Hato's problems by abbreviating them. Kio is spelling out things for an audience assumed to be unfamiliar with these issues. It also works through what happens when someone's obsessions/passions/drives don't even find a proper place in the Genshiken. I think it's very honest of Kio to work through something that difficult in a work that could take it easy and keep it's audience happier. Yeah, having a sexually-confused trap seems trite and perhaps a little unrealistic in the context of Genshiken, but relative to most manga with a trap character, Kio has provided leagues more depth and realism. Hato's issues take more time to unpack, and so they're going to take more to work out than Sasahara's or Ogiue's or Madarame's, but Kio is facing that head on. However, I can easily concede the point that a story like Hato's isn't necessarily what people came to Genshiken for either. I also think it's a separate enough beast that even if you don't like the new series, I don't think it ruins the legacy of the original run of Genshiken. Same with Spotted Flowers if not more so since it's not even canon (yet.)
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Dec 29, 2013 02:57
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Arise, Genshiken thread, rejoice and reclaim your rightful place on the first page of the Animated Drawings To Replace Woman (mouse over ADTRW on the Forums' home page) board, as chapters 95, 96, and 97 have been released all in a single week. So, uh, with that out of the way, I'd like to start the 112th «Is Nidaime Really Different from the First Genshiken» meeting. Here are my current thoughts on this, which have changed quite a bit in the last few months. Kio said in an interview years ago that, when he started drawing Genshiken, he was just like Ogiue at his first Comiket--self loathing otaku buying up everything. And it took a few years for him to get that out of his system in real life, and then a few more years for his character Ogiue to get it out of her system in Genshiken. So as Kio gets older and more experienced and more emotionally well-developed, the sort of realistic situations that he's able to convey through Genshiken has also become more complex. The author is growing up with the story, and we are growing up too. If you think about it, Genshiken at its core isn't even about Otaku. It's a series of coming-of-age stories about socially awkward people. Now most coming-of-age stories are set in high school (i.e. Catcher in the Rye), but since nerds mature and "bloom" late, Genshiken is based in college. Now, when Kio first started Genshiken, he himself was only late 20s. The relationships he depicted in the first few volumes of Genshiken were quite basic and stereotypical. Very good looking guy gets good looking sassy girl, two people with similar interests start dating, and unrequited love from a shy nerd. Notice that none of these relationships were explored in depth except for Madarame's unrequited love. A lot of people think it was a design decision, but I think it's because, at the time, Kio simply hasn't had enough accrued life experiences/wisdom to dive into these issues deeply. It's not until Vol. 7 and 8 that Kio takes a detailed look at how people get together and stay together--the fights, the drama, the waiting. Sasahara's response to Madarame asking whether H-games help in real life ("They aren't completely useless, but you can't expect that things will go as smoothly") shows a lot of understanding here. So now Kio has leveled up again, and can discuss even more advanced relationship and gender issues now, as well as post-graduate problems/being a NEET. These topics he wouldn't have been able to explore earlier because he had little or no exposure to these issues. At its core though, Nidaime is still about young, kind, but socially awkward adults trying to find a place in a complex society. So for me this is still very much worth reading, and I really do appreciate the scanslations.
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Mar 13, 2014 05:19
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For what it's worth, I enjoyed the latest chapter. I don't care what Hato decides to identify as, so long as he makes up his mind and commits to one. I realize that I can't really relate to his plight, but even so I felt like the pacing got really bad as Hato waffled about. If things are pretty much decided now, awesome. There are some good pieces in place for the coming chapters.
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Mar 13, 2014 05:56
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sincx posted:Arise, Genshiken thread, rejoice and reclaim your rightful place on the first page of the Animated Drawings To Replace Woman (mouse over ADTRW on the Forums' home page) board, as chapters 95, 96, and 97 have been released all in a single week. I don't know. Kio's works before Genshiken, the Kagerou Nikki stories and Yonensei+Gonensei, dealt extremely in depth with exactly the kind of young people relationships you're talking about, though in those cases the characters involved weren't otaku. If anything, I think age has tempered Kio's portrayals--they used to be really raw and biting, sort of like he was just letting everything come straight from his heart, whereas now they seem to be filtered through the lens of time and experience. He has a kid who's old enough to kiddie anime (so around 5~6 at least, I'm guessing) who he mentioned in the author's notes a ways back, so those days of heartbreak and uncertainty are definitely behind him. I do agree that a lot of the things he draws are based on personal experience--DigoPri, for instance, was directly drawn from raising the aforementioned kid--but I don't necessarily think that Genshiken/Nidaime mark Kio's own progression through life. It's just that young people struggling with relationships is a thing he likes to draw and always has, I think.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:39
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I just shotgunned the new season last night with my girlfriend via crunchy roll. Any idea when it will get a US release?
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Mar 14, 2014 21:25
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numerrik posted:I just shotgunned the new season last night with my girlfriend via crunchy roll. Any idea when it will get a US release? NISA licensed it in mid-2013 for a US release, but they've not announced any details about packaging or a release date yet.
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Mar 14, 2014 23:17
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Thanks to a certain anonymous someone, Vol. 14 extras were released last week. Nothing much to say except poor, poor Madarame. Although I gotta say, I've seen Madarame-type guys become very popular after they hit their late 20s/early 30s because all the girls that spent their 20s playing around want to find someone nice to settle down with.
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Mar 24, 2014 08:33
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Hey Genshiken fans! So, I read this manga all over this week. I knew the name from before actually, with the vague idea of being about otaku club, but until now I didn't got to try it. At the very first chapters, I had to say it seemed weak, bland. Not very funny. Was I supposed to laugh with the characters, or at the characters? I needed a few chapters to get it going on, and near the end of volume 1 when the characters have been presented and their relationships established, it did click for me. One of the key facts for me is that the mc isn't really the Sasahara, he kinds of disappears in the background after admitting to himself he is an otaku in a few chapters, but actually for an otaku series, it focused in many chapters in Saki (or at least, they were seen from her perspective). The outsider perspective, the contrast between her and the rest, the comedy it bringed, it all contributed to me liking the series. Later it's a more a ensemble series, and a bit later Ogie is introduced, which has a bit more of depth, she brings her own issues, and then Sasahara's character comes back and grow both in romantic factor and others (like his quest for a job). The first part, in summary, feels as a great mix of comedy, slice of life in college, coming of age, with a bit of romance and even a tiny bit of drama. The great end that the volume 9 had closed the deal, about the end of a epoch, knowing that the years they lived together were happy but they are graduating so they won't come back and with time they will go separate ways. Hell, I also like it was only nine volumes, long enough to develop the story and the characters and have good comedy, but that's it, with an end. It didn't go on and on and on... The second part... I'm in the side of those that believe it isn't as good. Oh yes, this discussion again :P. It's still decent enough to read on so I'm not one of those fans that want to travel back in time and stop the author. You still can see the mangaka's virtues here and there; and at this point I'm interested in the character's fates, both new and old, but that said, I wanted to make a little critique -too much Hato-kun. Yeah, I'm not very original here. He is the character with most depth, so it makes sense to invest more chapters to him, and I don't have anything against a character with gender and sexuality issues here, but as I read all the chapters in one go, I can testify there are long stretches of chapters that is all Hato Hato Hato. With some intermissions of other characters talking about Hato. Was this a ensemble work? I could swear it was. A story about a club? Or a story about one guy? I said, he has the most depth, but even then it isn't enough to justify all the pages dedicated to him. Essentially, the reader knows what are his issues ("yeah, sure you like to crossdress only to read BL, that totally doesn't make you a potential transvestite gay!") and more or less what would happen in the series since early (I knew his would have a phase of doubt where he would reject him-herself, I knew he would develop feeling for Mada and it wasn't only for "shipping" etc), but everything takes time to happen in the series, which while "realistic", it doesn't make for the most riveting story. At some point I was bored of him doubting what toilet to use or if go on with the crossdressing or not, or him shipping himself. The whole dual "imaginary apparition" is actually interesting, and makes the point that he isn't fully in control, there will be tears before this finishes. -a bit too much romance. See, the first Genshiken was a simple story of group of friends. Sometimes, simple works. There were some couples in the first part, but they were just there (Saki) or were just in the background (Ohno) or they were more developed like Ogie's story... but even her story is just one volume, maybe volume and a half, including problems, flashback, climax for the drama, self acceptance and finally love (Hato-kun's story feels too decompressed, in comparison!). Now we have here Madarame's love problems in full throttle, that makes the comic a bit "just another romance series" and less Genshiken. And now including a harem. Which appeared almost out of nowhere, to be honest it's another weak point. It feels it's happening because the author wanted to happen, not because it's a natural development in the story. I can argue that Sue's case is legit but we didn't knew because the story haven't focused on her for now (and that's another thing, if they want to go for the harem and develop all this, he is going to develop characters like Angela and Sue more, the second part is going to be eventually longer than the first one), the same as Hato, but the other two had barely any interaction with Mada! -realism vs otaku series. Genshiken was a manga about otakus. Except for some comedy related hijinks, it kind of felt real. There were a group of people with normal friendships, a few normal couples, with some common hobbies between them. Now this feels more like an otaku manga about otakus. What's the difference? Stuff like the harem. Stuff like having a trap creating problems (even if they play the character straight and "serious" with him). Stuff like the greater amount of anime references both direct and indirect (they increased in this second part). Stuff like the new females members going on and on about shipping and BL and umes and sekes (I suppose it's realistic, and in that case poor girls, but tiring for the reader; you may make the case that before you had male otakus buying doujinshi that is the same, and yeah it's the same poo poo but they were more silent about it, I also would be tired if they wouldn't stop talking about it, hell I would have left the series if it wouldn't evolved from the rocky start of "otakus buying dj in shops and comiket and reading it on the club). Stuff like some character's behavior. I feel as if before, if anyone treated to make an anime trope into real life, they would laugh at it and be embarrassed, because even if they are shy otakus way into way into the stuff they like they aren't stupid or dense like animu~ main characters and know anime can't be applied to real life, in fact they pointed it out a few times. I feel now the characters are starting to be manga/anime characters and not "real ones". Why a shy otaku like Mada with problems socializing wouldn't have problems or issues dealing with a crossdressing guy that loves BL, and ship him in it? and later says he likes him? That's nice for him, but I dunno if it's realistic. I would be more realistic Mada having problems coping with it! Why he would start to be dense about the whole romantic situation he is in? He lampshades it saying how harem protagonist are "incredible" in a way, but it doesn't make sense for his character to act that way. It may also be that now the series lack a non otaku character like Saki to ground the story, laugh at them, and have them in check. Sasahara's little sister could have made the role, but she barely appeared. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 23:00 on May 8, 2014 |
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May 8, 2014 22:54
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