|
Very glad to see this thread, shalcar. Eagerly awaiting some gloriously magnificent trickery from yourself.  Also, I have finally managed to get a Shogun 2 campaign off the ground as the Date. Apparently, the secret to my success is to play under the influence of Jack Daniels. 
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2013 20:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 20:34 |
|
|
Oh man, this is gonna be good times. I swear I played the original Shogun until I wore grooves into the disc. Probably gonna be picking this up during the Steam Sale(it's 15 bucks right now, seriously) and playing along with the thread. So I'm curious, how useful IS kisho training? I know most units can hide in forests, but is hiding in tall grass and scrub limited to units with kisho training or can anyone do that? Is it JUST for climbing walls?
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2013 20:53
|
|
|
Agent Interrobang posted:Oh man, this is gonna be good times. I swear I played the original Shogun until I wore grooves into the disc. Probably gonna be picking this up during the Steam Sale(it's 15 bucks right now, seriously) and playing along with the thread. It's much, much more useful against human opponents. It can provide a morale penalty if perfectly timed that the AI can't ignore, but other than that, it's limited against the AI.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2013 21:03
|
|
|
Agent Interrobang posted:Oh man, this is gonna be good times. I swear I played the original Shogun until I wore grooves into the disc. Probably gonna be picking this up during the Steam Sale(it's 15 bucks right now, seriously) and playing along with the thread. Deploying anywhere is also a massive advantage, especially vs. Human opponents. The abilitty to get inside a castle with a suicide samurai unit can make seiges quite a bit easier. Playing Chokosabe, I really hated having 4 units of katsams magically chew into my archery lines.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2013 00:58
|
|
|
For those of you who followed my rather tumultuous last several months, you will be pleased to know that I have secured a job which is both a step up in responsibility and remuneration. The downside to this is that I am going to be even busier than ever before. I'll do my best to have minimal LP impact, although I will now be aiming for an update around every week and a half until I can bring myself up to speed on the new job. Quality won't slip and I will continue to deliver lovingly handcrafted Shogun 2 LP's! Thanks for everyone's understanding over the next few weeks/months. I'm aiming for the next update to be out by Wednesday, where we are starting with a bang!
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2013 08:32
|
|
|
shalcar posted:For those of you who followed my rather tumultuous last several months, you will be pleased to know that I have secured a job which is both a step up in responsibility and remuneration. The downside to this is that I am going to be even busier than ever before. I'll do my best to have minimal LP impact, although I will now be aiming for an update around every week and a half until I can bring myself up to speed on the new job. Congratulations, glad that got sorted out so quick. I'm suprised this LP is continuing into Shogun 2 proper at all considering the messes you've gone through.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2013 08:33
|
|
|
Your last lp was really good. Where do you get all the hard data, example the accuracy debuff at night and so on?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2013 10:18
|
|
|
vuk83 posted:Your last lp was really good. Where do you get all the hard data, example the accuracy debuff at night and so on? I'm going to have to give TWC some credit for that one, someone there was able to extract the data strings from the data files, as these values are the ones that are publicly exposed for modding. I've got them all saved in a text file somewhere on my HDD, but the reality is only a few of them are things you can do anything about, like night battles or fog. It's entirely possible later patches have changed the exact values, but to the best of my knowledge it's all still current.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2013 10:31
|
|
|
The point is to fight at night, in the rain, or snow, or fog... and then gank them... honorably though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2013 10:33
|
|
|
shalcar posted:For those of you who followed my rather tumultuous last several months, you will be pleased to know that I have secured a job which is both a step up in responsibility and remuneration. This is great to hear! Best off luck in your new job! shalcar posted:The downside to this is that I am going to be even busier than ever before. I'll do my best to have minimal LP impact, although I will now be aiming for an update around every week and a half until I can bring myself up to speed on the new job. Looking forward to seeing how the first year go for our ninja friends. As for time, I say, use as much as you need. It was the quality of your Rise LP that made me like it so much!
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2013 15:31
|
|
|
Congratulations, Shalcar! That must be a relief - unemployment is so stressful. And don't worry about the LP's pace - quality matters.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2013 16:48
|
|
|
You have no idea how happy I was when I saw this thread! Best of luck with the new job!
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 05:50
|
|
|
In case anybody is wanting to play along with the thread, Shogun 2 just hit 75% off on Steam. That's about 12 bucks and change for the game with all the DLC included. Fall of the Samurai is 75% off, too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 20:23
|
|
|
Agent Interrobang posted:In case anybody is wanting to play along with the thread, Shogun 2 just hit 75% off on Steam. That's about 12 bucks and change for the game with all the DLC included. Fall of the Samurai is 75% off, too. Its actually $7.50USD right now. A huge bargin, totally worth the price.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 21:01
|
|
|
twig1919 posted:Its actually $7.50USD right now. A huge bargin, totally worth the price. Well, 12 bucks if you include all the DLC, is what I meant. Which you should because the extra clans are awesome.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 21:02
|
|
|
ehhh.....The Otomo I don't enjoy much and complicate the Shimazu beginning*which is still stated as easy despite the Otomo being there* but that's probably just preference*and complete inability to use matchlock effectively* meanwhile I LOVE the Hattori and Ikko Ikko.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 23:04
|
|
|
Chaeden posted:ehhh.....The Otomo I don't enjoy much and complicate the Shimazu beginning*which is still stated as easy despite the Otomo being there* but that's probably just preference*and complete inability to use matchlock effectively* meanwhile I LOVE the Hattori and Ikko Ikko.  Uh... what? The Otomo were always there, the DLC just made them a playable faction.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2013 04:59
|
|
|
The Otomo DLC also makes them a bit harder to kill at the start of the game, I assume, probably due to starting with more of an army and the addition of their unique units.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2013 07:59
|
|
|
Sabotage thier army, take the cities, laugh as they try to siege you? And in my last shimazu game they got killed off by shoni before I even attacked them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2013 08:17
|
|
|
Tarezax posted:The Otomo DLC also makes them a bit harder to kill at the start of the game, I assume, probably due to starting with more of an army and the addition of their unique units. It's true that the DLC buffs them slightly, but the Shimazu start is still hilariously easy. Your back is against a wall, you're next to 2/3's of the trade nodes, you start with a blacksmith province, and you get improved swords, which are a more than capable of charging into matchlock ashi and ripping them to shreds. Also the AI is terrible at leveraging their unique traits and, in my experience, get killed of by a minor clan like the Ito/Shoni before they can really pick up steam. I don't know, I've just never seen the Shimazu as have a remotely difficult start, Otomo or no. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2013 08:38
|
|
|
The only real danger with the Shimazu is messing about so much that you run out of time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2013 09:35
|
|
|
Fangz posted:The only real danger with the Shimazu is messing about so much that you run out of time. Yeah. You're so early-game beefy and so far from the major victory provinces that it can be very easy to develop 'big fish in a small pond' syndrome out on Kyushu and never really commit to an advance. I find them sort of a 'newbie crutch' faction that way; it's way too easy to overrely on their strengths, even into the late game where you have to make a bloody charge across a mostly unified mainland. You need to maintain their momentum, without getting bogged down; since the Otomo are right next door Christian rebellions can be a huge pain in the butt and a dangerous distraction.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2013 11:50
|
|
|
Sydin posted:I don't know, I've just never seen the Shimazu as have a remotely difficult start, Otomo or no. It would take a pretty major remapping to make the Shimazu "balanced", mostly starting with shifting the trade points and that blacksmith.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2013 15:09
|
|
|
I have a good bit more trouble with the Otomo there but its mostly because every time I play the shimazu it seems like Kyushu starts playing quite defensive.*also I try not to take extreme advantage of the trade points.* I actually tend to find the Date much easier to play just because of all the fertile land they have nearby. For that matter I have a easier time as the Hattori or Oda being in the center*not the ikko though because being the monk specialist army that lacks metsuke while next to the ninja specialist buildings sucks. :P * Just the way things go when I'm playing that probably are different to other peoples ways of playing.*for example about 90% of my battles are attacking and defending castles without going out on the field.*
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 00:21
|
|
|
Nice, a Shogun LP. Too bad my graphics driver is borked or I'd volunteer to play in the tournament with my Takeda army. Ah well. The key for Hattori, from my experience, is what happens over near Oda. If Oda manage to get out of their terrible start and build a decently sized empire, then they have the power to block expansion to the east. This can be bad, but it as it also makes them a buffer between you and the powerful eastern clans, making friends with them can be quite lucrative. If they fall (which is what tends to happen within the first few turns), then you can expand their way, which I find to be very lucrative for the Hattori. The only issue becomes dealing with the Takeda and Uesugi, who tend to be interested in stopping your pushes east, and possibly the vassal house of Tokugawa. It's fun though to be in the middle, you just need to make sure you protect yourself from EVERYONE before expanding too far.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 01:44
|
|
|
Don't forget the Ikko. If they pick up steam and start spreading their dirty socialism every which way you have to start playing a religious game and at the very least switch gears to pick up Zen. Also loan swords.  I've said it before and I'll say it again: I love the randomness factor that comes with Shogun in that you never know what clans are going to die in dishonor and which are going to claw their way to greatness. You're absolutely right that the Hattori are influenced greatly by what their neighbors do, which is why games in central Japan are so dynamic: it's a big melting pot of powers duking it out, and you can get some really crazy configurations and runaway clans. Sydin fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jul 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 03:32
|
|
|
Ah yes, the ikko. Forgot about them. I think I ignored the religion in my game, and was lucky that the ikko didn't manage to make any inroads into other clans (they picked a fight with Uesugi. They lost.) My favourite personal start is Takeda. So many choices for who you need to steamroll first, so little time... On a slight tangent, I recently found out that ashigaru armies can be absolutely crippled by fighting the Houjo when they have cannons. I played a multiplayer game with a friend (we're terrible), but as soon as he came over a hill with his scout units, my cannons managed to stay on target and blow three entire units away in a couple of salvos, routing the rest of his army, bar the general and a couple of samurais...who ran straight into bomb throwers. Also, with Hattori Hanzo (I believe) as the Hattori general, you can deploy the majority of your army anywhere on the map. It was hilarious having only my general in my deployment zone, then pouring all my units down the wooded hill BEHIND my enemies army deployment. On the other hand, despite winning the campaign with them I never really got to use night-fighting all that much, so looking forward to that. At the moment, conquering some coastal territory might be useful to you? Getting into those trade routes might help with the early economy issues Hattori has. On checking the internet, it appear Oda likes us already, despite not meeting us. Didn't know that. This could be the start of a beautiful friendship (assuming they live.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 04:17
|
|
|
Just the type of LP I was looking for! I've been fumbling around with the game since I got it and am not that good at it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 07:41
|
|
|
A journey begins... Spring of 1545   Yasunaga sat, surrounded by his advisors. "We are but a small clan" he uttered. "How do we grow without drawing the wrath of titans?" "Our enemies store weapons and equipment outside their walls" a young, well built advisor replied. "They do not fear the ninja, yet. We should acquire these." Yasunaga looked thoughtful. "If the opportunity presents itself, perhaps we can use that. Summon Taketoshi, I have another plan..." Our game begins with a mission to complete. Missions in Shogun 2 act like a miniature in-game tutorial to help point out the strength of your clan and to help direct you towards things that provide a solid advantage that you may not otherwise consider. In this case, the game gives us the chance to sabotage an enemy building in order to gain a full 4 turns of cheaper unit recruitment. Missions often have a time limit, but this one doesn't, so we can do it at our leisure. The reward isn't good enough to warrant going out of our way to perform, so we will simply let it sit there and collect it when it becomes useful to us.  "What sort of pace do you call that?" bellowed Taketoshi. "I've seen a drunk sloth march quicker. MOVE!" "My Lord, a missive for you" stated the messenger, running up. Taketoshi thanked the runner and opened the letter. "You are required to defend the clan capital of Iga and oversee the raising of ashigaru forces. Report to the Tenshu at once. - Yasunaga" A slight scowl his Yasunaga's face, before bursting into a grin. "Tell those slackers in my bodyguard to mount up. We ride for Iga!" The first order of business is to put our Daimyo in charge of our troops, so we move Taketoshi into the capital of Iga where he can defend the province as well as being the focus point of our eventual second army. You will notice that of the three armies here, only two have that metal half crescent at the top of their flagpole. That indicates that a general is present in that army, so we can see that our main army is currently being lead by a captain. All armies have something similar, so you can see at a glance what type of commander an enemy unit has on the campaign map.  The spring was warm this year and the trees were in full bloom, even in the harsh lands of Iga. "A good omen" thought Yasunaga. "The gods favour our plan." He turned his eyes skyward. "Hachiman, protect my son and see that he falls to no harm. Protect him like I would, with the fury of a thousand storms!" he prayed. Yasunaga turned his eyes back to the road. "Also see that pays attention to his teachers" he chuckled to himself. Yasunaga is moved out to take control of the (now leaderless) Hattori army.  Yasunaga sat astride his horse in front of the assembled men. "Taketoshi tells me that you are the stealthiest warriors he has ever seen" announced Yasunaga. "and he has seen a few!" A few of the men allowed themselves a small smile. "We will be undertaking hidden maneuvers on the border of Iga and Omi and we might not always be on our side" stated Yasunaga. "Stealth is critical, but I know you will be up to the task!" We then move Yasunaga's army into the trees to the north. Firstly, this lets us see into the incredibly rich province of Omi to gauge the defences and see if it's worth an attack. We can see that Omi is defended by 5 units, 4 regular troops and 1 garrison troop. These are represented on the giant purple flag by 4 white lines and 1 grey line respectively. Putting our troops in the forest makes it more difficult for enemy forces to see us, at this distance and with such a small army, we should be completely invisible from the forces in Omi, despite being only a single turns march from their capital! Lastly, Yasunaga is in charge instead of Taketoshi as when the Daimyo leads an army, he grants an additional +1 morale to all troops in addition to what else the general would provide. As our troops are small in number and are weak ashigaru, every edge we can grab could be critical in our success!  Chisato frowned. Normally the dead-drop would be empty, but looking back at her was a parchment. A mission! Her throat went dry as the thought of her first real mission ran through her head. Would it be an assassination? A building sabotage? Army sabotage? Mustering her courage, she picked up the scroll and broke the seal. Within minutes, she translated the message: "You are required to head to Omi to scout the province and report back any activity." Chisato breathed a sigh of relief. "It's a long way to go" she thought. "But at least no-one will try to kill me!" We need to know more about Omi and prepare to destabilise the province for their eventual capture. To that end we move Chisato over to scope it out. Ninja have the highest sight range of all agents, in addition to being invisible to the enemy clans (unless they get too close to another enemy agent or army) and so are perfect for spying. Given how incredibly useful it can be to sabotage the gates of enemy fortresses, it's always a good idea to have a ninja nearby to your key armies to eliminate enemy agents and sabotage critical buildings. We can also see that Kyoto has an enormous garrison along with a moderate sized army. It will be a long time before we (or anyone else!) can challenge the Shogun. Summer of 1545  Taketoshi glared at the collected advisors. "What is this nonsense? Combat ninja? Next you will tell me about stealth cavalry" he stated. "Can this really work?" Only the slight tensing and then relaxing of the lead ninja indicated his frustration. "We have many very promising men... my Lord" the ninja replied. "With the right facilities and training, we could bring our greatest strengths into the battlefield." "You need money then" replied Taketoshi. "Surely this is a matter for the castle bursar." "Our needs are a little more complicated than money" the ninja noted. "We need the finest minds, money and facilities to bring our plan into action" "Then I can't grant it to you" responded Taketoshi. "The Daimyo has seen fit that we have other priorities. When his will is completed, I will bring your plan to him." "Thank you, my Lord" the ninja replied, bowing. Another turn and another mission issued, this time it requires us to master a Chi Art - School of Shinobi with the reward being one of our unique units, the Hattori Kisho Ninja. This mission is also a tutorial of sorts, as the School of Shinobi art gives us access to this unit to produce and it's one of the Hattori's most powerful tools. This one has no time limit and we won't be going straight for it, as early on in Shogun 2, there are two arts which are almost mandatory in every game which we will be picking up first.  "We have long been good friends, trading and respecting the lands of the other" Taketoshi told the ambassador. "That is why I propose a military alliance. Together we can crush any opposition before it even begins." The ambassador looked thoughtful. "An... interesting proposition" he replied. "Such a matter is simply an official announcement of our existing agreement, but such announcements have power. The Hattori have been, after all, the most loyal servants of the Shogun. We accept." We need to get some more friends in the world, so what better than to take advantage of the cordial relations we have with the Shogunate and gain a military alliance? The Shogunate is interesting, in that it will never expand or attack and so makes a useless ally if a war has broken out, but they maintain a very large standing army which makes the AI consider you a more difficult target to invade, possibly preventing an invasion. Since a small benefit is better than nothing, we make the alliance.  Chisato wandered through the trees by day, heading towards villages and inns by night to gather information. Little of interest appeared, but she knew that vigilance in the smallest tasks was required before even a single large task could be accomplished. Plenty of time was left for introspection, however, with her teachers words ringing in her ears "Observation yields all answers". "Is this what he meant?" she wondered. "That by looking, I find? It seems so obvious and yet, I can't help feel that I'm missing something" We need more information about those around us, so Chisato continues on her mission to scout the province of Omi, while remaining ready to assist at a moments notice. You will also notice that the province to the left containing Kyoto now has a blue border instead of a white one. This indicates that we have a military alliance with this clan. The other colour is red, which indicates you are at war with that clan. Autumn of 1545  Taketoshi looked at the assembled men. Fresh recruits, drawn from the very peasantry of Iga herself, the men were poorly disciplined but skilled. "The men of Iga are the very best!" announced Taketoshi. "Fathers teach sons how to move like the wind and hide behind a single leaf. Now STAND AT ATTENTION!" The men straightened up. "You are Hattori!" bellowed Taketoshi. "You will be the best." Our clan can hardly become dominant in Japan with our paltry army, so we recruit an additional 2 Hattori Yari Ashigaru to bolster our ranks at Iga. Normally a province of Iga's development could only recruit one unit a turn, but as Iga is our clan capital, it gains a bonus slot for recruitment. All clans can do this, but it must be your clan capital to get the bonus slot, if you capture another clan's capital, it will only have the normal number of recruitment slots.  "A centralised trade location, such as an official markets, enables more efficient economic management as well as making taxes easier to collect" the metsuke teacher droned on to his students. "The Taira knew the importance of markets and built their empire upon them. We must heed the hard learned lessons of the past." We have mastered our first art, Way of Chi. This increases our tax income by 1/30th (An additional 1% from the base of 30%) and allows us to construct a new type of building, the Market. It's not much, but right now every little bit helps.   Ingame encyclopaedia - Way of Chi posted:The wisdom to rule well is given to few men. Those who have it quickly pass into legend, remembered for all eternity. A man must not only learn the way of the warrior but also how to govern in peace. No community can exist in eternal war, and the leader who can survive a peace will always prevail over one who cannot adapt. His clan's fame will increase amongst friend and foe alike.  The Chi tree grants benefits of an economic nature, increasing trade revenues, boosting tax rates, unlocking economic buildings and focusing on improvement to your people through religion and fortifications. Listed on the above graphic you can find the arts, the time it would take to research them (assuming no art bonuses) and the benefits they would provide. We won't be seeing the Military tree, Bushido, for a little while, as in Shogun 2 the Chi tree has two critical arts which must be researched as soon as possible, these are Todofuken and Equal Fields. Luckily, Todofuken is the only pre-requisite for Equal Fields, so we collect everything critical in one pass. Todofuken is the slightly less useful of the two, as with the reduction in army upkeep, unlocking of the level 2 market and the level 3 roads, it is required for any economic powerhouse province, not to mention the volume of koku saved with the 5% upkeep reduction is ludicrous over the course of the game. The real critical art is Equal Fields, which is required to unlock the level 3 farm building, Terrace Farming. This is critical as it allows you to put provinces into a food positive position, which means that if you capture a negative food province you won't go into empirewide starvation, which is absolutely crippling well above and beyond what a newer player would expect. In addition, it means that even if you do capture a province and put yourself into negative food, you can build the farm and solve the problem in 5 turns, which, while very painful, is doable. Without this art, a single mistake with food can bring down your empire, in addition to making it very difficult to build highly developed provinces. While we are here discussing arts, I will just briefly outline the research plan as it stands at the moment. Obviously, we will go straight for Equal Fields like any sane Shogun 2 player, while after that we will swing through Zen and School of Shinobi to unlock our more critical units. Then we will see if we make a move to unlock monks or samurai, depending on how the game is unfolding. Ultimately, I would like to get us heroes in both the spear and cavalry trees, but that will depend on how long the game continues.  Yasunaga opened the scroll and read the news within, his face unchanging. "So the impostor ninja clan has fallen" he thought to himself. "Divine proof that we are the true masters of the shadow!" A great clan has fallen! Whenever a clan you know about or any of the great clans is eliminated from the game, you receive a notification of their elimination. With great clans, you get to watch a little video specific to the clan that has been defeating, showing their speciality units overrun by the enemy. As the Tokugawa are the other ninja specialists in the game, we are left as the sole representatives of the ninja in Japan!   "To protect my family, we must become more powerful" thought Yasunaga. "But whose land must we take? Patience is all well and good, but the price for inaction can be just as steep as that for rushed action." A flicker of frustration passed over his face. "How will I know if I am making my son safer or not? Will I be giving him a better life? I know the time for action is soon, but what action do I take?" Yet another mission, this time to take an adjacent province with an incredibly delicious reward for doing so, a full 25% more wealth from buildings for 4 turns. Luckily for us, we already had plans to expand our empire, so getting bonuses for free is always a nice surprise!  Yasunaga's thoughts were broken by the scout bursting into the tent. "My Lord" reported the scout, breathlessly. "The Asai garrison has marched out of the city and set up camp in the surrounding foothills, it looks like they intend to march." Yasunaga's face broke into a smile and he gave silent thanks to the heavens for the answer to his problems. "Tell the men to form up for a night march" he ordered. "Silence and speed will be critical. I will personally execute the man who gives away our position." In fact, the timing couldn't have been better. As you can see, the Asai have moved their defensive force out of Omi in preparation of some maneuver. While they are within the reinforcement range of their castle and so will come to the aid of their castle if it fell under attack, they failed to factor in that the army that they can't see is the most deadly! With our forces all hidden in the trees, they have no idea we are massing on their border.  "Of course, my Lord" the scout replied. "Before you go" responded Yasunaga. "Send word to the Asai Daimyo leading the garrison that the Hattori have declared war. Tell the messenger to arrive in the morning 3 days from now, no earlier." The scout bowed low. "As you command." We beat the drums of war and declare our intent to take the province of Omi. Our military allies, the Ashikaga Shogunate, joins in but the Asai have allies of their own, the Sakai, who join the war against us. Luckily, the Sakai are to the north of Omi and unable to lend any meaningful help.  The Hattori forces moved with speed and stealth, under the cover of darkness. On the outskirts of the Omi fortifications, they stopped and awaited orders, the men scattered and hidden. "My Lord, we made good speed" noted the samurai captain. "It's still the second night of our march. Our war declaration will not reach the Asai until tomorrow morning." In the darkness, Yasunaga grinned. "That is why we are attacking now" he replied. "The castle is all but undefended. Order the men to prepare the assault!" Yasunaga marches on Omi and we prepare to undertake our first battle. This screen shows the balance of your forces on the left hand side, with the enemy forces on the right. Each army that is participating has it's own tab, represented by the icon of the leader. To the centre left is the information about our general, showing that he is a 1 star general leading 570 men, while on the centre right we can see the enemy is lead by a captain (no general ranks) commanding only 45 men. If there were reinforcements, their numbers would be listed below. The other general, who is greyed out along with his army, will not participate in this battle despite being within reinforcement range, as we have elected to perform a night attack which prevents reinforcements. Normally you would need to be a much more skilled general to perform a night attack, but as we are the Hattori all of our generals are able to do it from the start! The yellow/red bar in the centre is the power bar and indicates the balance of power in this fight where we are yellow. As you can see, the Asai are in real trouble! The options to the bottom are (from left to right): Continue the Siege, Autoresolve the Attack, Launch the Attack and Retreat. Our forces consist of Yasunaga, 1 Hattori Yari Samurai, 2 Hattori Yari Ashigaru, 1 Hattori Bow Ashigaru and the enemy forces consist of 1 Samurai Retainers. The enemy reinforcements that won't play a part in the battle are 1 General, 2 Yari Ashigaru and 1 Bow Ashigaru.   Samurai Retainers are a sword equipped unit of Samurai that are tasked with defending the castle. Despite their small numbers, they will deal terrible casualties to enemy yari or bow units in melee and will hold their own against other sword units. Against ashigaru units, they are incredibly deadly and should be treated with caution. They are, like all melee units, vulnerable to sustained arrow fire. Samurai Retainers are only found defending castles as a garrison, they can not be acquired any other way. In-game encyclopaedia - Samurai Retainers posted:Samurai retainers are elite expert swordsmen who remain behind to protect their master's castle from enemy attacks while the daimyo is on campaign. The retainers go into battle accepting death and fearing little, which gives them excellent morale. Accepting death is not the same thing as foolishly throwing away your life, so samurai retainers must be wary of threats from cavalry and missile troops against which they have little defence.  Click here to see the battle! The Hattori troops marched closer to the battlements, when suddenly the call to arms bell started ringing from inside the castle. "We have been discovered!" roared Yasunaga. "Archers loose arrows! Charge the walls!" Surging forward like a great beast, Hattori troops scaled the walls to reach the battlements darkness making the way treacherous and men lost their footing to fall to their deaths. "We are the night!" bellowed Yasunaga. "Let no man live!" This is the battle loading screen, which shows us the topography of the area the battle will take place on. The yellow area is deployment zone for friendly units, while the red area is deployment zone for enemy units. Any units with Kisho Training can deploy anywhere except for the red areas, making them exceptionally useful for controlling key areas of the battlefield. All of our units with the exception of Yasunaga have kisho training. The map is one of the several Fort maps, the lowest level of fortification. As such, it only has a small area protected by walls and now towers. Nevertheless, for our poor quality and inexperienced troops, it will be challenge enough!  As quickly as it had started, the fight was over, the outcome never in doubt. Quickly, Yasunaga took stock of his remaining forces. "A glorious victory, my Lord" reported the samurai captain with a smile. "We are the night." Yasunaga nodded. "Prepare the men, there will be little time for celebration. Secure what you can, but the Asai Daimyo and his forces will not take this lightly." A commendable performance, with our forces losing men at a rate of 2:1 but taking the castle. Yari ashigaru struggle to do better than that against sword equipped units, so it's the expected outcome.  "Sadatoki's men were the first over the wall" reported the ashigaru commander. "His unit fought valiantly, but at heavy cost. It will be some time before we can replace his losses." "Time is a luxury we don't have" responded Yasunaga. "Did Sadatoki survive the assault?" "He did, my Lord" answered the ashigaru commander. "Then tell him to ready his men" ordered Yasunaga. "We still have much work to do." No surprises in the after battle statistics, the unit that did most of the killing also did most of the dying. Given the value of Omi, the loss of a hundred ashigaru to seize it is quite the promising start! You will notice that the Hattori Yasi Ashigaru unit has gained a combat rank, represented by the chevron. Each combat rank increases the combat statistics of the unit by 0.5 morale, 1 melee attack, 1 melee defence, 2 reload skill and 2 accuracy (rounded up). On units with low base statistics like ashigaru, a few combat ranks can cause a remarkable increase in battle performance!  "The men await your orders, my Lord" stated the samurai captain. "The town has wealth for the taking that would look good in your coffers." "And the coffers of the men, no doubt" replied Yasunaga, wryly. "No, there is to be no looting. We are taking complete control. Summon the province administrator." Now that we have beaten the garrison, we are offered three choices with what we will do with the province. The first, by far the most common, is to simply take control of the province and begin to administrate it. This produces the least unrest in the province, but also doesn't provide us with any money. As we are confident in our ability to hold this province as well as the need to make it productive sooner, we will take control. The second option is to loot the province. Looting provides koku proportional to the wealth of the province, so very wealthy provinces will provide you with significant sums. However, it will reduce the honour of your Daimyo, heavily damage all the buildings in the province and cause enormous amounts of unrest. Looting is useful if you can't hold a province and wish to deny it's value to the enemy. A looted province will be very poor for a very long time. The last option is to create a vassal. Vassals must trade with you and can't declare war on anyone but you unless you order them to. Vassals also pay tribute each turn proportional to their income. Given how lucrative trade can be, it is often a better idea to vassalize a poor province in economic terms, although vassals made before Realm Divide will turn on you along with everyone else.  "I am loyal to the Asai" the administrator stated. "I will tell you nothing." "That is your final statement?" Yasunaga asked. "It is" replied the administrator. "The Asai forces will crush you when they discover your treachery. You will not savour this victory long." Yasunaga nodded, then drew his sword and struck the man through the throat. "Tell Sadatoki to find out everything about this province's administration that he can. This man must have assistants that are less loyal. Tell him to take the head, it should prove useful in loosening lips." We decide to peacefully occupy Omi and install our administrators. The province is now ours! Long live the Hattori! The old Asai Daimyo and his army wait outside our walls however, ready to take back their lands. Something will have to be done... Autumn of 1545 to be continued Sneak Peak: Establishing a claim... shalcar fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Aug 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 09:25
|
|
|
You realize you could have just shot them with arrows and lost 0 men? Thats my strategy when I find an early game castle with nobody but the 1 unit of samurai retainers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 09:48
|
|
|
AtomikKrab posted:You realize you could have just shot them with arrows and lost 0 men? No. This idea literally never occurred to me. e: For the sarcasm impaired, of course I could have done that. It would have been tediously dull and also completely pointless, since in 2-3 turns the unit damaged will have fully replenished and the other units will be back up to speed in 1. I gain literally nothing except wasting minutes of my life and the life of everyone watching this LP. e2: I suppose I should just come out and make this perfectly clear to everyone. I will be doing things in this Let's Play that are not "optimal" in order to make it a better experience for everyone. This means I won't be exploiting AI quirks or min/maxing my agents/generals or firing every last arrow I have before taking action. As this LP is meant to be instructional, it's being run in a way that will try to show off as many different scenarios as possible to hopefully give a different take on things and maybe give newer players a few ideas on how to approach the game. The LP is meant to be fun to watch and while super optimal play can occasionally be interesting to look in, it usually ends up less tense and dynamic than a game flowing like the designers intended, especially where something like firing every arrow is capable of doing nothing for your actual game benefit short of letting you feel good about a little number while spending 10 minutes of your life to do so. Part of the fact that you no longer need to worry about these minor attrition items is part of why Shogun 2 is the best Total War yet. I am a good Shogun 2 player. I'm quite capable of breaking the game over my knee as evidenced by the fact I won my last LP in 49 turns and I believe that adequately demonstrates my prowess in tactical battles. If you want to talk about strategy, that's fine, I encourage that in the thread. I've been loving the talk about the game so far and I think it's really promising. Give me at least a little credit, though, in that perhaps I'm using the game to tell a story and maybe teach people a few new tricks along the way and that if I'm doing something that isn't 'optimal' perhaps I have my own reasons for doing it. shalcar fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Jul 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 09:53
|
|
|
In addition, giving your melee units early experience for relatively little risk tends to turn out better anyhow: ranged units will get experience regardless through the game as long as they don't get completely wiped out, while yari need all the help they can get to level up a few times without getting run over.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 12:07
|
|
|
How long would it take to reinforce those yari to full strength? And don't they lost experience reinforcing as well (as the veteran pool is diluted by new recruits)?
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 12:12
|
|
|
CommissarMega posted:How long would it take to reinforce those yari to full strength? And don't they lost experience reinforcing as well (as the veteran pool is diluted by new recruits)? I'm planning on covering replenishment and how it works in the next update, but at this point in the game they replenish 10% (how we get to that number will be covered in the next update, along with how to combine units and how that works) of their total unit strength, which would mean they need 6 turns to fully replenish from their current state if we planned to keep them. If they are not needed in the next 6 turns then the actual cost of the fight was literally zero and in fact if you have enough recruitment capacity spare it can be cheaper to disband the units and rebuild them when required (Any Ashigaru unit with more than 2 turns of replenishment needed is literally costing more than disbanding and recreating due to our absurd upkeep as Hattori, a subject that I also wish to cover in the next update.) To cover your other question, experience is diluted by the new recruits, yes. I'll also cover how that works. IAmTheRad posted:Just the type of LP I was looking for! I've been fumbling around with the game since I got it and am not that good at it. Excellent! I hope you can find the information in here useful and able to improve your game. I'm confident that you will learn everything you need to be quite competent at Shogun 2.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 12:27
|
|
|
Yay, another Shalcar update! Night battle was a pretty cool thing to see, I don't think I've ever taken a general that route that I remember, and literally didn't know what it did; that'd have been handy a few times in the past, as I've seen the AI levy some ridiculously large doomstacks I had to weather down with careful sacrifice and clever baiting. Turn 2 and already awesomely educational information. Also I'm very glad for prioritizing of enjoyability and interest over cheap tricks. Looking forward to much foiling of ninja by granaries!
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 12:45
|
|
|
While Shogun 2 has a noticeably better strategic and tactical AI compared to the previous games in the series, siege battles are still problematic for it. Even if the computer has archer units, it's often trivially easy to maneuver your own archers around their field of fire and shoot at the garrison with impunity. It seems to me that the computer deploys its defenders against the majority of your (infantry) force, so as long as they stay put, the computer's archers will hold their position even if they are taking fire. As you can imagine, being able to ignore the computer's archers can lead to siege assaults being completely one-sided, even with upgraded castles: if anything, the extra walls and terraces seem to confuse the defending AI even more. Conversely, if the computer is attacking, it is exceedingly stubborn. I've often seen the computer lose all of its men and then send its general(s) over the top, as if 30 men would suddenly succeed at something 300 failed to do. I once witnessed the Amako clan throw away three of its family members in one battle  . At least it won't passively sit in range of archer towers anymore!
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 13:31
|
|
|
Just discovered the thread and am happy that Shalcar is doing another Shogun 2 LP. Long live the Hattori. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 16:25
|
|
|
AtomikKrab posted:You realize you could have just shot them with arrows and lost 0 men? I just assumed he was playing it more ninja-y than not. Plus I'm not sure if one unit of archers have enough arrows to plink the samurai retainers to death at the start. I'm playing as Chosokabe, so most of my army consists of archers and my castle sieges tend to consist of "move archers into position where they can plink at whatever comes into range, go do something else for several minutes, come back and watch them mop up the last several units". It's... not the most riveting story or best for teaching the game. Shalcar, are you planning on getting into the siege weaponry at all, or will the Hattori LP be mostly "use climbing advantage and just swarm"?
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 20:00
|
|
|
He was showing off the Kisho training and what it does. And losses practically mean jack and poo poo right now. Plus, like someone else pointed out, he got an experience level out of it for some units that need it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 20:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 20:34 |
|
|
Agent Interrobang posted:Yeah. You're so early-game beefy and so far from the major victory provinces that it can be very easy to develop 'big fish in a small pond' syndrome out on Kyushu and never really commit to an advance. I find them sort of a 'newbie crutch' faction that way; it's way too easy to overrely on their strengths, even into the late game where you have to make a bloody charge across a mostly unified mainland. You need to maintain their momentum, without getting bogged down; since the Otomo are right next door Christian rebellions can be a huge pain in the butt and a dangerous distraction. Yeah, I jumped into Shimazu after having not played any Total War in a long while, and I'm really having to fight that urge. The only hiccup I've had so far is when the Sagara turned on me after I declined to join the Chosokabe in a war (bastards killed my heir and best general). But now that I own the island and the Chosokabe are being hammered by the Yamana on the mainland, I'm just about to start an invasion of Shikoku and hopefully take that and use it as a platform to get to Kyoto. I'm hoping that'll be easier than having to plow through and hold the mainland. What's the general take on how to treat your daimyo? Is it better to keep him alive and safe, or are the rewards of putting him on the front lines worth the risk?
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2013 20:21
|
|
