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Yeah, I wish that would be coming to Android but Sirlin has a pretty big affinity for Mac products. He'll probably only stick to IOS. I don't think the price will be that much of an issue as long as it periodically goes on sale or whatever. Whoever has an iPad and wants it will definitely buy it at that price, but it'll definitely need a reduction in order to pull in people on the fence.
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Apr 9, 2014 17:53
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Chekans 3 16 posted:Yeah, I wish that would be coming to Android but Sirlin has a pretty big affinity for Mac products. He'll probably only stick to IOS. It's not ios only because Sirlin is an apple whore; it's the same reason tons of apps/games are ios only - it's easier to develop for and earns more money vs. Android devices. I'll buy it, but it's going to have a hard time selling at $10. What is it with Sirlin and stubbornly pricing himself out of the marketplace with his games?
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Apr 10, 2014 19:22
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Crackbone posted:It's not ios only because Sirlin is an apple whore; it's the same reason tons of apps/games are ios only - it's easier to develop for and earns more money vs. Android devices. Yeah, I understand that. Being such a small developer with limited resources he probably has no interest whatsoever in an Android port due to the easier development platform on iOS. I was also going to call him an Apple whore but I wanted to phrase it nicely.  I think his prices for board games are somewhat justified due to the way higher production values on most of his games. The IOS port however I have no clue why he would price it that much. Also how is this going to work with the free to play model he has on his website? Are you getting all the characters available for $10, or are you going to have to pay to use them? Chekans 3 16 fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Apr 10, 2014 |
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Apr 10, 2014 19:34
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I think he fancies himself the Steve Jobs of tabletop gaming. He just can't imagine releasing anything short of a premium product, and prices things accordingly. I don't even think there's a lot of air in, say, Yomi's first edition price tag: It's just that the box comes with over 500 unique cards, printed on quality cardstock. It's kind of ridiculous a venture.
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Apr 10, 2014 19:41
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In both formats he's priced his product way outside what the average person will pay. Whether his stuff is a bad value is different - but it's funny how he continues to misjudge the market.
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Apr 10, 2014 20:00
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Crackbone posted:In both formats he's priced his product way outside what the average person will pay. Whether his stuff is a bad value is different - but it's funny how he continues to misjudge the market. His board games aren't priced that far outside of the norm. Buying a complete Yomi set is expensive yes but the cheapest entry is a two deck set for around $20-25, Puzzle Strike is around what I'd normally buy a board game for at $40-60, Flash Duel is $25-30, and Pandante will probably retail for about as much as Flash Duel.
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Apr 10, 2014 20:15
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Yes they are. Yomi is $100, and his other more reasonable games aren't discounted online, making them appear significantly more expensive by comparison.
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Apr 10, 2014 21:05
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Crackbone posted:Yes they are. Yomi is $100, and his other more reasonable games aren't discounted online, making them appear significantly more expensive by comparison. They are though?  I gave a range of prices because I looked at more than just his own store. Amazon has them at discounted prices, that's where I got the lower of my ranges. The average person shopping for board games won't go straight to the developer's website, they're going to go to Amazon or a board game retailer like Coolstuff.His games (other than the complete Yomi set) are competitively priced with other designer board games currently being sold.
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Apr 10, 2014 21:17
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I think the big issue is that he refuses to let things be sold lower than MSRP. Puzzle Strike isn't more expensive than many board games, but if you look at Amazon (CSI doesn't carry his stuff) you'll see most games have a big ol' strike out through the original price, with an often-notably cheaper price instead. $50 for PS: Shadows isn't like, unforgivable, but look at a few other deckbuilders on Amazon: Dominion/Dominion: Intrigue - Base $45, Amazon price ~$30. Legendary - Base $60, Amazon $50 DC Deckbuilding Game - Base $45, Amazon $27 Ascension - Base $40, Amazon $30 Thunderstone: Advance - Base $50, Amazon $39 Now, I'd argue PS is a better game than most of those, but it becomes really hard to recommend it to someone getting into the hobby who isn't ready to sink that amount of cash, and a lot of people feel redundant owning several games of the same genre. Yomi has a unique pricing problem, but it at least isn't a saturated genre (BattleCON is the closest and I'll argue to the end of my days that they really feel nothing alike despite the main thread's insistence). I don't really know enough about the digital market to talk about that though.
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Apr 10, 2014 22:08
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Countblanc posted:I think the big issue is that he refuses to let things be sold lower than MSRP. Puzzle Strike isn't more expensive than many board games, but if you look at Amazon (CSI doesn't carry his stuff) you'll see most games have a big ol' strike out through the original price, with an often-notably cheaper price instead. $50 for PS: Shadows isn't like, unforgivable, but look at a few other deckbuilders on Amazon: That's true, but his games also have a fully fleshed out online version you can point them to to try for free. That extra $10 goes to the better quality of the rules and components, which if I'm recommending something to someone is going to be more important to me. The only deckbuilder out of those I'd recommend a new person to would be Dominion, and that's only if they're completely against trying Puzzle Strike out online or buying it.
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Apr 10, 2014 22:25
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I do point to the online clients when possible, but for a lot of people, board gaming is interesting specifically because it's analogue entertainment. The online clients are great for people who want to play competitively; There's no set up or tear-down for PS (Yomi basically has none anyway) so rematching is super fast, they're fully rule enforced, and only good people really play there. But it's another thing entirely telling someone who is looking for a game to bring to their friend's place or to have in the closet for game night that they just need to set up multiple laptops and hope everyone wants to play as this week's free character, and even that's sort of discounting the hard-to-explain visceral joy that comes from drawing cards or collecting chips or whatever. Sirlin makes "gamer's games," which is fine since that's what I am, even if he isn't going to admit that himself. It's just that, that demographic needs one of two things to want to buy a game: Value or Fluff. BattleCON gets recommended all the time by people saying just how much poo poo you get in the box. It's kinda pricey, but the game has a lot of poo poo in there (I'd be happy to have a discussion about how more characters =! better gaming experience in something match up based, but that's a different post all together) and it's very obvious. It also kinda touches on the "fluff" concept, but not too much. By that I basically mean that the game has some sort of "world" that people care about. No one gives a gently caress about the Fantasy Strike world, and that's fine for me because I just want a good, competitive game. But do you think Warhammer would sell as it does/did if it didn't have the personality it does? Even smaller examples like Netrunner fall under this. I don't know. I don't think Sirlin's pricing structure is predatory or anything, but I also don't think it's where it needs to be to get most people who play board games - who are often not going to get enough plays to learn how Grave vs Troq is different than Grave vs Rook - to invest in his stuff. He certainly has cheaper games on the market, like Flash Duel, but yeah.
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Apr 10, 2014 22:39
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Chekans 3 16 posted:That's true, but his games also have a fully fleshed out online version you can point them to to try for free. That extra $10 goes to the better quality of the rules and components, which if I'm recommending something to someone is going to be more important to me. The only deckbuilder out of those I'd recommend a new person to would be Dominion, and that's only if they're completely against trying Puzzle Strike out online or buying it. I'm not trying to argue value, I even said that. Regardless of anything else his products are priced higher than the rest of the market, which is a detriment to his sales. That's all I'm trying to say. Edit: count said it better and nicer. Crackbone fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Apr 10, 2014 |
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Apr 10, 2014 22:40
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On a related note, anyone wanna play Yomi tonight?
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Apr 10, 2014 22:42
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Crackbone posted:Jesus dude, are you getting a commission when he sells stuff? I'm not trying to argue value, I even said that. Regardless of anything else his products are priced higher than the rest of the market, which is a detriment to his sales. That's all I'm trying to say. Na, I'm just bored at work and having fun arguing this.  I know you're not trying to argue value, that's why that statement wasn't pointed at you. Countblanc brought in recommendations to someone, so that's why I answered him with that. His MSRP's aren't higher priced that most other board games, other than Yomi. A few examples: Galaxy Trucker: $75 Tash Kalar: $65 Betrayal: $50 Pandemic:$40 The deckbuilders Countblanc listed. His games sale price's aren't as steep a discount as most of those games, but they're still available for cheaper online. Countblanc posted:I do point to the online clients when possible, but for a lot of people, board gaming is interesting specifically because it's analogue entertainment. The online clients are great for people who want to play competitively; There's no set up or tear-down for PS (Yomi basically has none anyway) so rematching is super fast, they're fully rule enforced, and only good people really play there. But it's another thing entirely telling someone who is looking for a game to bring to their friend's place or to have in the closet for game night that they just need to set up multiple laptops and hope everyone wants to play as this week's free character, and even that's sort of discounting the hard-to-explain visceral joy that comes from drawing cards or collecting chips or whatever. I'm not arguing for the client as a replacement, I'm just saying it's a good solution for trying before they buy. I've played a poo poo ton of Puzzle Strike online, but I still have the physical sets because I like playing with my friends. I agree, I think that's why his games haven't taken off as much as he thinks they should have. Puzzle Strike resonated with me because I like deckbuilders, I played a poo poo ton of Puzzle Fighter as a teen, and I like competitive games. I think most people just don't take to the theme of his games, and that the prices aren't really a big barrier. People are way more inclined to buy a game where they are interested in the fluff around it, and his games just don't strike that chord in a lot of people. Chekans 3 16 fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Apr 10, 2014 |
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Apr 10, 2014 23:04
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Countblanc posted:On a related note, anyone wanna play Yomi tonight?
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Apr 10, 2014 23:20
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I'm pretty free whenever tonight. I'm east coast so it's technically "tonight" already here. Maybe around 7:30 EST, so in 45 minutes? At 9 I have a commitment but it's nothing huge so I'm free later tonight too and tend to be up late. What time works for you? e: I also welcome spectators and am gonna post a link to our match in the main thread, since I think people could do with seeing how the game works a bit in practice. Maybe I'll even stream and commentate if I can be arsed to set up OBS.
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Apr 10, 2014 23:45
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Countblanc posted:I'm pretty free whenever tonight. I'm east coast so it's technically "tonight" already here. Maybe around 7:30 EST, so in 45 minutes? At 9 I have a commitment but it's nothing huge so I'm free later tonight too and tend to be up late. What time works for you? I work weird hours, and I'm smack dab in the middle of my shift. I'm on the West Coast, and I could probably play around 11pm my time but that's probably way too late for you. I could also play tomorrow morning or afternoon instead.
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Apr 10, 2014 23:54
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I'm pretty busy tomorrow (it's my weekly board game... thing), but some time this weekend maybe we can set something up.
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Apr 11, 2014 00:00
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Countblanc posted:I'm pretty busy tomorrow (it's my weekly board game... thing), but some time this weekend maybe we can set something up. Sure thing. I'm assuming you're Countblanc on FantasyStrike with the googly-eyed King Phillip and added you to my follow list.
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Apr 11, 2014 00:08
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So how'd that go you two? Got any exciting blow-by-blow game recaps to share?
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Apr 15, 2014 06:55
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My recap was that I gave a really sweet tutorial that covered the basics and some more advanced stuff, and then we played a few matches that I narrated for the stream. But then whoops I'm a fuckshit who didn't realize Twitch made archiving videos an opt-in feature last year so it's lost to the winds of internet ether! I actually recorded a new tutorial but let me tell you, it feels incredibly boring and nerdy to just sit in a twitch stream alone talking to yourself about fightgame cards. Also I realized after recording it that I had no video editing software and ended up downloading like 600 different malwares trying to find something to convert flv to avi. When I finally got it set up something bugged out and the conversion failed and then I realized I was ashamed of the video because of the aforementioned weirdness of talking to myself and reading a script instead of an actively participating audience like the initial stream had (which was super cool and felt really organic) so I just threw up my hands and stopped caring. I really wanted to get a fleshed out basics and character tutorial out for each of the starting 10 by the time the iPad version came out so I could link my friends and loved ones, but it just wasn't meant to be. If you want to see the unedited disaster it's on my Twitch page; I manage to sound completely uninterested (probably due to it being boring to record), but the information is kinda solid. There's lots of long-ish breaks where I was going to cut the video but obviously that never happened. Our matches were fun though, I totally embarrassed myself by not realizing for about half of our first game that Into Oblivion was something you played during the Draw Phase instead of being tied to an attack/throw like Bonecracker was and then failed to actually do anything useful with it once someone in stream reminded me.
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Apr 15, 2014 07:46
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The first game I did reasonably well, it was pretty close until I got dunked on at the end. The second game I decided to hit random for my character and I got destroyed. I think my worst move was using Quince's power where he sorts 5 cards into two piles, and then the opponent chooses one that I get to keep. I thought it was hidden information, so I put all the good cards into one pile which Countblanc obviously didn't choose. 
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Apr 15, 2014 17:33
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We were actively wondering why you sorted them like that, kind of funny to hear that was why.
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Apr 15, 2014 22:08
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Yeah I kept mentioning that maybe you had some master plan and I was freaking out because I just gave you the needed parts for a straight combo or to shore up your defenses or whatever, haha
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Apr 15, 2014 22:12
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Don't be like me kids, read your Yomi Cards.  Anyways, here's an interview Sirlin did with some gaming podcast I've never heard of. I've listened to about 20 minutes so far and it's a interesting discussion of game design, Ipad Yomi, and his other games. The Die is Podcast Interview
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Apr 15, 2014 23:04
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A few nights ago I played online Yomi for the first time since they updated the ui and officially added the new characters. I played a couple of matches against the computer to get back in the swing of things and then hit quick match. Friiik accepted my challenge. So I poo poo my pants, we played 3 games amd I ended up winning one! I played Vendetta all 3 matches and he used Vendetta the first match before switching to Gloria. I won one of the games he used Gloria. I won the first few combats and had a sizeable life lead before I ran out of gas. He pretty much knew the contents of my hand and I spent the next few turns just making do until I could be more unpredictable. I finally managed to land a throw that only won me the game because he used Gloria's ability to do 10 damage to both players on the prior turn. The next game he got an early life lead and crushed me to death with that same ability. I forgot how good his game is and I'll probably be on later tonight if anyone wants to throw down. Username there is Praetor51
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Apr 16, 2014 00:57
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Woohoo Vendetta is free! I'm on now, gonna get some Yomi in.
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Apr 16, 2014 01:26
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I'll get on if people are still around, I'll even stream because I'm cool. Any game I host will have the password "awful" http://www.twitch.tv/countblanc E: If you host a game, make sure to enable spectators and visible hands so I can commentate it and make bad predicts! Countblanc fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 01:36
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Sucks you lost the better tutorial Countblanc but it's cool you're keeping at it. In my opinion, Yomi's 2nd biggest issue preventing a wider player base (after sticker shock) is the perception that it's "random." Good on you for being a voice against that.
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Apr 18, 2014 00:55
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Chip Tips: Mix-Master Puzzle Strike, 3rd Edition Today we mix it up in a discussion of one of the stranger chips in the base set, Mix-Master. Its basic traits are a little unusual; first off, it's one of only two bank chips to have two different banner colors (the other being Really Annoying). It is red to reflect its power to strike at other players, and purple to reflect its combining effect - which brings us to point 2, its cost. Naturally there is nothing "unusual" about costing 4, per se. It's just a number. Your starting six 1-gems can, with the +$1 of using your starting Crash Gem, guarantee you 4 buying power during one of your two first turns (that is, the turns before your first reshuffle) without even adding character powers to the mix. However, you're not going to have 4 on both first turns without character powers, and you may have trouble putting 4 together as the game goes on if you don't invest in money production. Thus, a 4-cost chip very much competes with other 4-cost chips for your buy, and Mix-Master invites a very direct comparison to the almighty Combine. That's why I consider its price significant. Everyone wants Combines. Rushers typically try to combine up to a 4-gem ASAP to crush enemies. People facing a rush have to combine to more efficiently crash down their piles. Buying a Combine with your certain 4-buy turn in the beginning of the game is a pretty drat good idea. Maintaining a ratio of 3 or so Combines to every Crash in your deck is standard operating procedure. So would you ever get Mix-Master instead? Certainly. It combines your gems together without costing you a dollar! The simple fact that it offers an orb-chip effect without being an orb-chip makes it something to consider for all the cast members with orb-buy restrictions on their powers; however, many of those cast members must be very mindful that it gives no extra actions, unlike proper Combines. Quince is noteworthy here for having an orb-buy restriction and extra actions. And we mustn't forget that Mix-Master shatters enemy gems while building yours! In most situations I consider Mix-Master a good substitute for a first-cycle Combine buy when you expect to be on the defensive. Early in the game as a defender, your combining goal is to be able to whip up a biggish gem so you can get some poo poo out of your pile in a single hurried crash. Mix-Master will do this gradual work as well as Combine, without costing you money for the development that is supposed to eventually win you the game. Also, Mix-Master breaks up the big gem your rushing opponent is trying to push on you, thereby decreasing your need to defensively combine. Early game, the rusher probably can't combine three times in a single turn. The 3-gem work-in-progress he's hoping to complete after the second cycle is a ripe target for your first-cycle Mix-Master. It could shatter his rushing tempo. Conversely, Mix-Master is not particularly good for aggression. You can't "Combine-Combine-Combine-Crash" with Mix-Master. Things change, as they often do, with a fork effect. One-Two Punch into Mix-Master into Combine x2 into Crash can enable a kill on someone who thought that his middle-height pile with a 3-gem in it was safe. However, that's mid- or late-game technique, after you've afforded the fork and Mix-Master (which, remember, might be tricky for a rusher). Many rushers don't plan on letting things go that long. How should a rusher cope with a bank that contains Mix-Master? Well, first, learn to make a 4-gem by merging a pair of 2-gems instead of combining up the numbers 1-2-3-4. It makes a big difference. A 3-gem sitting around begs to be Mixed. Use pig effects to save Combines/Crashes to enable more "Combine three times, Crash" turns and never leave a big gem on the table. If you have one of those low-buy turns that you often see when Combining heavily, you can probably still afford Thinking Ahead* for immunity or Knockdown to shift your game towards thousand-cuts. Ebb or Flow gets you get a consolation prize. Combinatorics of course makes rapid combining easier. Vendetta and Gwen are two rushing characters whose innate forks make aggressive use of Mix-Master much more feasible. *Rules note: Immunity to red fist effects will prevent your gems from breaking but will not prevent the Mix-Master user's gems from combining. GEIGER masters the freshest mixes. He doesn't have a fork or an orb-buy restriction though you say?! What he does have is the power of timing (very important to rhythm). Mix-Master rewards careful or surprise use. Geiger can draw it from his discard to snipe a gem left on the table. When it comes up in a hand where it's not optimal, he has tools to put it back in the bag. If he manages to buy it on his first turn, he can fire it off turn 2 for a combinatory head-start. He is not particularly good at using it aggressively, but his timing powers can still help there, and if he's playing the aggressor he is resistant to being hit with it due to strong pig power and timed orb-chip retrieval. Admittedly that is not a match made in heaven, but I believe he edges out all others for Mix-Master compatibility. Feel free to argue otherwise!
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May 15, 2014 23:08
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Yomi 2nd Edition is "done." Expect a Kickstarter in a couple months maybe? I will give the OP a pass soon to reflect the now-final changes between 1e and 2e.
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May 20, 2014 16:57
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Man, that means the finished product is still a good year away, boo. Still though, glad to hear it's actually happening. Eventually.
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May 20, 2014 16:59
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Pandante is almost shipped, wonder how long he's going to wait before putting up Yomi. I'm going to be so tempted to pledge but I probably shouldn't give how often I actually use my Yomi set. 
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May 21, 2014 03:28
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Bought Yomi on my iPad last night and was hooked immediately. Played the Puzzle Strike tutorial online and was hooked immediately. These games are great! Now that I have a full-time job and a wife, I can't make it out to board game nights as often. So, $9.99 for a game I can play in my spare time isn't too bad in my eyes.
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May 23, 2014 17:03
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QPZIL posted:Bought Yomi on my iPad last night and was hooked immediately. Played the Puzzle Strike tutorial online and was hooked immediately. Are there people to play online with on the iPad version? I remember hearing that it did cross-play with the PC one but I never really looked into it. If it does I'll throw down whenever you have time.
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May 23, 2014 18:13
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Countblanc posted:Are there people to play online with on the iPad version? I remember hearing that it did cross-play with the PC one but I never really looked into it. If it does I'll throw down whenever you have time. I haven't checked! So far I've only done the tutorial and played a few AI games.
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May 23, 2014 18:43
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It does do cross-play - it's just a mobile client for the fantasystrike.com server. I bought it, but haven't played yet. It takes too much focus to be a quick timewaster, and I haven't really had the time for a proper game.
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May 23, 2014 20:43
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SuperKlaus posted:Yomi 2nd Edition is "done." Expect a Kickstarter in a couple months maybe? Sirlin's confirmed the kickstarter will be this month 
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Jun 1, 2014 07:59
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I didn't even know there was a thread for this. And on that note... uuuuuugh I hate it when Lum is the free PS character. I don't mind being flexible, but I hate being this dependent on the bank to play well. Edit How's the print-and-play? girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 17:44
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Poison Mushroom posted:I didn't even know there was a thread for this. And on that note... I used to play with someone who had a really nice Print and Play set that he made from the download. He took the chip art and just added in his own backgrounds, and printed it out on some pretty good card stock. Was a little jarring at first playing with cards, but it's a pretty good alternative to getting a set.
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Jun 4, 2014 18:27
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