|
Zanziabar posted:So you're saying that if I punch a dude in the head that automatically means that he can shoot me? Where's the justice in that? If you attack me while I am carrying yes I will loving shoot you. Don't assault people if you don't want to get shot.
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 09:50 |
|
|
donJonSwan posted:This was a young black dude who was killed because he was a young black dude. And if there is any doubt, there is a 911 call where Zimmerman all but says exactly this. Arrgytehpirate posted:If you attack me while I am carrying yes I will loving shoot you. Don't assault people if you don't want to get shot. Or you know, walk down your street while being black. That'll get you shot too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:00
|
|
|
the runs formula posted:It's also possible that he was shot because he was assaulting another person. No way, that would be way too god drat logical for this paranoid rear end country.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:00
|
|
|
SocketWrench posted:Gee, you'll have to explain the real world to all the white co workers where I am that are on work release. Seems they missed the notice. A bit of column A and a bit of column B. octoroon posted:Yeah because speculating about the impending riotvengeance that "those people" will soon claim against Zimmerman isn't racist at all. Go gently caress yourself. In GBS, everyone is racist! 
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:00
|
|
|
ITT: People who have taken classes about/read books about race in America, and those who browse /pol/.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:01
|
|
|
SocketWrench posted:Gee, you'll have to explain the real world to all the white co workers where I am that are on work release. Seems they missed the notice. I guess if large amounts of black people just happen to be poorer and living in bad areas everything's fine. e. To be less pithy, class and race are too interconnected to be separated like that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:01
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:If you attack me while I am carrying yes I will loving shoot you. Don't assault people if you don't want to get shot. Arghy, If you stalk me on my way home I'm going to shoot you first 
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:01
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:If you attack me while I am carrying yes I will loving shoot you. Gun nuts are truly terrifying people. Any slight against them is deserving of death in their eyes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:02
|
|
|
Marxalot posted:Arghy, If you stalk me on my way home I'm going to shoot you first I'm a pretty quick draw we can have a Mexican standoff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:02
|
|
|
Bullfrog posted:ITT: People who have taken classes about/read books about race in America, and those who browse /pol/. /pol/ is celebrating, I see none of that here. I see angry debate, but nobody celebrating. Zimmerman supporters feel his life is ruined, it will be, but not until his molestation trial. And Martin, welp.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:02
|
|
|
the runs formula posted:It's also possible that he was shot because he was assaulting another person. Who was following him because he looked suspicious because...
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:02
|
|
|
keroppl posted:Don't worry, you wouldn't have to because that's not what they're said at all. How is it not? Not guilty through justified self defense is saying Trayvon was beating his rear end so swiftly that it was reasonable to use potentially deadly force to stop said beating. You're saying to his family that Trayvon's actions warranted getting shot at, and that the fact that the bullet a) hit and b) killed him are acceptable consequences.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:02
|
|
|
Quixotic posted:It's from the Urban Institute's MetroTrends blog, using data pulled from the FBI's Supplemental Homicide Report. Cool. Thanks, buddy. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:03
|
|
|
The Bible posted:And if there is any doubt, there is a 911 call where Zimmerman all but says exactly this. If you're talking about what I think you are, that was edited by some dickheads at the news studio, who later got fired for it. Zimmerman didn't say anything about his race until the cops asked him.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:03
|
|
|
The Bible posted:Gun nuts are truly terrifying people. Any slight against them is deserving of death in their eyes. Yes, clearly me fearing for my life while being attacked by someone of unknown capabilites is a "slight"
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:03
|
|
|
This thread is gonna spiral out of control quickly (I tried to avoid following the case but CNN is on so many places) Race played a role for sure. Zimmerman followed someone when he was specifically told not to by a dispatcher. Someone instigated a fight. In my opinion it does not even really matter who did, Zimmerman should have let the authorities deal with what he thought was a potential robber. Zimmerman wanted to be a cop, he relished in being a neighborhood watch and carrying his gun. The problem is none of that tells us he is guilty of murder 2. We know Zimmerman followed Martin after being instructed not to by the 911 operator. That should make him guilty of something. But we don't know who started the fight, and since you can speculate either way that's reasonable doubt.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:03
|
|
|
Pokaroo posted:Yeah you're right cause the case where a guy racially profiled a young black kid and then shot him to death shouldn't be made into a "race issue". How many white hoody-wearing 17 year old adults were wandering around the neighborhood that went unnoticed because Z immediately homed in on the black guy? IIRC the neighborhood had a rash of burglaries, and someone out of the ordinary is going to be noticeable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:03
|
|
|
Fog Tripper posted:If Zimmerman was black, it wouldn't even have been newsworthy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:03
|
|
|
George Zimmerman is declared not guilty of both murder and manslaughter. First of all, the former part is completely right. Zimmerman is not a murderer. He hardly set out on this trip with the intent of killing Martin. For second-degree murder, the jurors would have had to believe that Martin's unlawful killing was "done from ill will, hatred, spite or an evil intent" and would be "of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life." Proving that, or even believing that would be a long stretch, considering all the elements of the case, including the fact that Zimmerman fired only once leaving Martin alive for multiple seconds or even minutes. While many are quick to rush and scream “murder”, murder is a a heavy act that these same people forget. Often, “killing” translates to “murder” automatically and thus, no justice is being served. People do unlafwully kill people and it is wrong. However, laws should separate different levels of killing to make sure that someone who in the morning wakes up and goes to kill someone is not treated the same as someone who in a heat of passion resorted to deadly force and ended up taking the life of someone. For me, both in front of the law and with my personal morals, I do not think Zimmerman to be a murderer. I simply think that Zimmerman did not murder anyone and thus, while he certainly did kill a person, he should not be found guilty of murder. But some people call this a “good thing”. That killing Martin was “the right thing to do”. In what world is the killing of other humans deemed be acceptable? Why do people so readily cheer for the use of deadly force? Why aren't most people calling out for a more peaceful resolution? Would Zimmerman have had to resort to deadly force if he would have just stayed where he was? Is it so that deep-down, some people just want a justification for using a firearm against someone? What responsibility does Zimmerman have? He was told by the 911 Dispatcher to not to follow Martin, yet he did. He did not retreat from the situation and it could be said that “he was looking for trouble”. Why? Well, first of all, Florida law does not require him to retreat. He can stand his ground wherever he is legally allowed to be present. So what does this mean? I guess in the end it means that from a confrontation of two trouble seekers, whoever remains alive was the one “who stood his ground?”. Why does the law allow for people to stand their ground anywhere? Whose moral compass points to the right direction when looking for trouble is not only acted on, but is also lawfully permissible? Even if you end up resorting to deadly self-defence after your provocation led to the escalation of force? People should have the right to defend themselves, but making this “right” an all-encompassing excuse for deadly force whenever you are threatened is just a way to ensure that for the aggressors interest, the only good option is to kill the other party. If no one is left standing and breathing, no one can argue for standing their ground. If I equip myself with a firearm, set out to the wrong side of railroad tracks in North Charleston, find the most shadiest looking groups of people and provoke them to act violently with this situation leading me to “defend myself through standing my ground”, am I doing something wrong? In Florida, I am not. I can provoke people, I can follow them and I can carry a firearm while doing this. Doesn't it sound a little wrong? Should provoking be illegal? No, of course not. But that was not the only action undertaken. But in many ways, the legal side for “digging blood from your own nose” should be considered. Maliciously positioning yourself and acting based on the actions that other people take after your provocation should play a role in how your final act, here being the killing, is viewed. “Standing your ground” is a perversion of so-called “justice”. The logical course of action is to find the most neutral or passive action, such as staying silent, walking away or not approaching a situation. But no, the law says nothing of the sort. A citizen can follow another one and in case of conflict, resort to deadly force. That is wrong. Laws very rarely have anything to with right or wrong. Negligent homicide or voluntary manslaughter are things that I view Zimmerman to be guilty. He, carrying a firearm, provoked a situation and even if he ultimately defended himself, he could have started the “self-defense” from the act of not trying to actively provoke people. George Zimmerman walks and that's fine. He is not a cold blooded killer roaming the streets, nor do I believe him to cause any harm. I worry about the people celebrating killing, fantasizing about situations where they can do the same and the common opinion that approves deadly force as an acceptable conflict resolution. We reap what we sow. Force breeds force, sadness brings sadness, violence instigates violence. Resolving a conflicts, knowing that deadly force is in your arsenal as something that the law of the land allows, will lead to abuse of it and ensures that the most violent and malicious have justification for their twisted acts. Violence should never be a sanctioned option, only an act of necessity judged by a case-by-case basis where it should be pointed out to be the last measure someone could take.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:04
|
|
|
Been listening to Miami police scanner and there's a lot of talk of black men roving about with guns, and twitter is mentioning at least one dead in Miami and as many as five in Ft Lauderdale. I don't know if the scanner stuff is at all unusual for a Saturday night, and I'm not inclined to believe the twitter stuff without sources, but hey who knows! Maybe this poo poo is going down. What I think would convince me is a good proper bit of arson.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:04
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:Yes, that is also true, because of the horrific failings of our national media. So you're suggesting that the news cover every single murder case?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:04
|
|
|
The Bible posted:And if there is any doubt, there is a 911 call where Zimmerman all but says exactly this. No there isn't. He mentioned literally nothing about race until the dispatcher asked him. You must have been watching NBC news where they literally spliced his sentences together to make it look like he did that. The reporters involved were fired and NBC is being sued for defamation. quote:On the Today Show, NBC News told America Zimmerman said this on the 911 call: Also, Zimmerman has made 46 calls to the police since 2004. Only 6 of them involved black people.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:04
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:If you attack me while I am carrying yes I will loving shoot you. Don't assault people if you don't want to get shot. Yeah you're right so you can go around picking fights while carrying - WHICH IS WHAT HE DID - And then murder the person. And you think you can get away with it? Go ahead and do that to a white person. Actually go to a rich neighborhood and do that to the first white person you see. Please.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:04
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:Yes, clearly me fearing for my life while being attacked by someone of unknown capabilites is a "slight" Hey, I wouldn't like it either, but I still don't carry a tool of death on my person habitually. I'm just not that paranoid or afraid of the world.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:04
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:I'm a pretty quick draw we can have a Mexican standoff. http://youtu.be/sXldafIl5DQ Go three ways and add awesome music.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:04
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:Yes, that is also true, because of the horrific failings of our national media. A more cynical answer would have been Zimmerman would also not have seen a trial if he were black.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:04
|
|
|
donJonSwan posted:Who was following him because he looked suspicious because... Because he was apparently walking in the rain, looking like he was high and walking on the grass looking at houses that had been burgled in the recent past, according to Zimmerman. That's why he said he called, do you have any proof that he in fact just called because he was a black teen walking and not because Martin was exhibiting suspicious behavior?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:04
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:So you're suggesting that the news cover every single murder case?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:05
|
|
|
The Bible posted:Gun nuts are truly terrifying people. Any slight against them is deserving of death in their eyes. Yea, because waiting until someone beats you NEARLY to death before shooting them makes more sense...
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:05
|
|
|
ClemenSalad posted:No there isn't. He mentioned literally nothing about race until the dispatcher asked him. Fair enough, I was mistaken.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:05
|
|
|
If any of you guys have proof that it was not self-defense feel free to come forward with it. The fact that the jury wasn't even willing to convict him of manslaughter goes to show how little evidence there was. Unless the entire jury was a bunch of racists too. Also I don't want it to seem like I'm defending racial profiling (but I'm sure someone will think I am regardless of what I say or think), but that doesn't preclude him from defending himself.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:05
|
|
|
The Worst Unicorn posted:I guess if large amounts of black people just happen to be poorer and living in bad areas everything's fine. Do you have a breathing machine or something that keeps you alive to post bullshit like this?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:05
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:A more cynical answer would have been Zimmerman would also not have seen a trial if he were black. Of course, I'm white, so what the gently caress do I know about the struggle that minorities face in this country? I'm not even saying that ironically. I, as an upperclass white male, have no idea what it's like to be anything other than that in America.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
the Bunt posted:Are Hispanics incapable of racism? I don't really understand the "Zimmerman was Hispanic" defense unless it's specifically in response to claims of white supremacy or something. This has been an odd thing to me because in Dallas with large Hispanic and black communities my experience has been that they are racist as gently caress with each other, to the point where they are almost openly antagonistic in a way that would never fly with white racism these days.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:Yes, clearly me fearing for my life while being attacked by someone of unknown capabilites is a "slight" As much as I hate to ruin everyone's fun. Dude, you're being trolled. SpiderHyphenMan posted:Yes, that is also true, because of the horrific failings of our national media. It really is the perfect story for them in terms of ratings though. That's literally the only reason this is a thing. e: The Bible posted:Hey, I wouldn't like it either, but I still don't carry a tool of death on my person habitually. I'm just not that paranoid or afraid of the world. Tell me stories of what living in a nice neighborhood is like 
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
Maybe this whole trial was just to even whites and blacks out after the OJ case.  See, I can have awful opinions too!
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:If you attack me while I am carrying yes I will loving shoot you. Don't assault people if you don't want to get shot. Amazingly, not every assault needs to end with someone being shot. This might be a hard concept to grasp for Ameri-goons.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:/pol/ is celebrating, I see none of that here. I see angry debate, but nobody celebrating. Zimmerman supporters feel his life is ruined, it will be, but not until his molestation trial. And Martin, welp.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
e: it was actually NOT miami. still hoping for a riot though
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 09:50 |
|
|
CainFortea posted:Yea, because waiting until someone beats you NEARLY to death before shooting them makes more sense... Like I said, I would be scared too, but I'm just not so terrified of the world and other people that I make it a point to always be armed and ready to kill or be killed. I just don't get attacked all that often. I wonder if it's because I don't go out expecting (hoping) it to happen?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2013 06:07
|
|