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Zanziabar posted:Amazingly, not every assault needs to end with someone being shot. This might be a hard concept to grasp for Ameri-goons. Nope, just the assaults where the assaulted feels like their life is in danger and they're in a position to do something about it.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:07
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ReidRansom posted:Been listening to Miami police scanner and there's a lot of talk of black men roving about with guns, As long as they are properly licensed guns they are legally within their rights to walk around with those guns, despite how threatening you may think their appearance is. e: As far as the jury is concerned, it isn't like they necessarily have endorsed the self defense story. It means they did not see the evidence as sufficient to fully disprove it. The unfortunate downside to this case is that there will be people who feel themselves emboldened enough to be antagonistic simply because they are armed. An armed society isn't a polite one, it's a society full of assholes who think they can just blow away anyone who takes a poke at them.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:07
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Fog Tripper posted:IIRC the neighborhood had a rash of burglaries, and someone out of the ordinary is going to be noticeable. 
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Jul 14, 2013 06:08
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Pokaroo posted:Yeah you're right so you can go around picking fights while carrying - WHICH IS WHAT HE DID - And then murder the person. And you think you can get away with it? Go ahead and do that to a white person. Actually go to a rich neighborhood and do that to the first white person you see. Please. Look, here's how it is: In America, it is 100% your right to follow someone in the street. It's even your right to walk up to them and tell them that you think they are horrible pieces of poo poo, that their mothers are whores and even use racial slurs. If you assault them, you are the one who is guilty of a crime, not them. Being a complete rear end in a top hat is not a felony, while assaulting people is. You can go around picking fights with people as much as you want, as long as you are not throwing any punches first, you're still in the right. Even if Zimmerman was following Martin, looked creepy and insulted him, the second Martin jumped on him and started to beat him up, that opened a window for Zimmerman to defend himself with lethal force. That's the reality of things. You can be an rear end in a top hat in America. You can't punch someone because they are one. If you assault someone you might end up dead. Does this mean that justice always prevails? No. But that's how the system works.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:08
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The Bible posted:Hey, I wouldn't like it either, but I still don't carry a tool of death on my person habitually. I'm just not that paranoid or afraid of the world. I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you wish you had a gun. Pokaroo posted:Yeah you're right so you can go around picking fights while carrying - WHICH IS WHAT HE DID - And then murder the person. I go out of my way to avoid conflict while I am carrying. Zimmerman is an idiot and a fuckwad but he's not a murderer. SpiderHyphenMan posted:No I'm suggesting that the news at least pretend to maybe sort of care about black-on-black murder. Murder isn't news. The Arkansas oil spill is news, the NSA is news, student loan rates doubling is news. Zimmerman and Casey loving Anthony aren't news.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:08
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:That's a bit too cynical, even for me. I think that was the exact thing Zimmerman's attorney said, post-verdict (the "this wouldn't have went to trial if Zimmerman was black" thing).
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Jul 14, 2013 06:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsHv9MszlqI It's Vancouver, not Miami. This is the original.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:09
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I think that actually may be the loudest dog whistle I've ever heard.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:09
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oldskool posted:How is it not? Not guilty through justified self defense is saying Trayvon was beating his rear end so swiftly that it was reasonable to use potentially deadly force to stop said beating. You're saying to his family that Trayvon's actions warranted getting shot at, and that the fact that the bullet a) hit and b) killed him are acceptable consequences. Why it's almost like what the court was saying is it's not a clear cut case of premeditated murder or something. It's one case where the system actually worked and people are bitching about it while others like you go off with stuff like this
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Jul 14, 2013 06:09
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Murder isn't news. The Arkansas oil spill is news, the NSA is news, student loan rates doubling is news. Zimmerman and Casey loving Anthony aren't news.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:10
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:If Trayvon Martin was white George Zimmerman wouldn't have thought there was anything suspicious about some kid in a hoodie wandering around a neighborhood looking lost. Awesome! A real live psychic fortune teller with a two-way crystal ball, right here in this thread! Shut up about the justice that just got served and tell us the lottery numbers! 
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Jul 14, 2013 06:10
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The Bible posted:Like I said, I would be scared too, but I'm just not so terrified of the world and other people that I make it a point to always be armed and ready to kill or be killed. I just don't get attacked all that often. That's a whole lot of contradiction in one single post. You're saying that folks who carry guns around are terrified of everyone around them, yet later claim that those same people walk around hoping to get attacked so they can shoot someone? Or maybe people who have a concealed piece are just making sure they have the tools to meet situations that would otherwise end in their death, no matter the likelyhood of that actually happening. I mean, it's pretty unlikely that i'm gonna get beat to death in my area, but if it does it's not like I can claim after death "But wait, it's totally unfair that would happen to me I demand a do over!"
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Jul 14, 2013 06:10
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Jersey Mike posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsHv9MszlqI The mountains in the distance were a pretty clear giveaway.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:11
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Twee as gently caress posted:Look, here's how it is: Except that "fighting words" are a well-established exception to first amendment rights to free speech, so it's okay for jurisdictions to ban them (or, say, to place fault in the speech itself).
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Jul 14, 2013 06:11
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Arrgytehpirate posted:I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you wish you had a gun. Been doing alright so far. It helps to live in a country where private firearm ownership is illegal. Strangely, even the outlaws very, very rarely have guns. Weird. Of course, I didn't always live here. Grew up in Texas, where the majority of people carry guns. Still never needed one. I suspect it has a lot to do with me not walking around expecting to be in a situation where I'll need to use one. I could just get unlucky one of these days, but oh well, I'm happy enough not to be so scared all the time that I carry one everywhere.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:11
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Pokaroo posted:Yeah you're right so you can go around picking fights while carrying - WHICH IS WHAT HE DID - And then murder the person. And you think you can get away with it? Well there's legal precedent for it now, so yeah, you probably can. Probably bodes well for this guy too.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:11
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:They are where they have a Sensationability Factor™. No it still isn't. That's just the 24 hour news cycle grabbing at easy ratings instead of delivering intelligent, balanced, thought provoking news that actually matters.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:11
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That loving narrator. "Hope the police crack some skulls tonight"  Edit: Even though it's from Canada.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:11
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Sweeney Tom posted:I think that was the exact thing Zimmerman's attorney said, post-verdict (the "this wouldn't have went to trial if Zimmerman was black" thing). You are correct, I meant that Zimmerman would have been killed by police and never made it to trial if he was black.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:12
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Fog Tripper posted:How many white hoody-wearing 17 year old adults were wandering around the neighborhood that went unnoticed because Z immediately homed in on the black guy? That lived there. That shouldn't have been harassed. By a person with a gun. Even if you ignore that his suspicion was probably racially motivated, the fact is that he brought a gun to a situation that escalated because of HIS actions. And then HE used the gun.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:12
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Twee as gently caress posted:Look, here's how it is: Remind me again, who had the gun and who had the pack of skittles?
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Jul 14, 2013 06:12
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CainFortea posted:That's a whole lot of contradiction in one single post. You're saying that folks who carry guns around are terrified of everyone around them, yet later claim that those same people walk around hoping to get attacked so they can shoot someone? That's not necessarily a contradiction. I doubt literally everyone who carries a gun feels this way.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:12
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Twee as gently caress posted:Look, here's how it is: Actually that person would be breaking a few laws, namely: -Public disturbance -Menacing -Using foul language in public -Criminal threatening -Stalking etc. etc. Basically, you're totally wrong.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:13
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The Bible posted:Been doing alright so far.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:13
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Except that "fighting words" are a well-established exception to first amendment rights to free speech, so it's okay for jurisdictions to ban them (or, say, to place fault in the speech itself). Maybe you should read what fighting words are about, and how many times they've actually been legally followed-up on, before you quote it the next time.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:13
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The Bible posted:Been doing alright so far. Scared =/= prepared.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:13
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Pokaroo posted:That lived there. That shouldn't have been harassed. By a person with a gun. Martin was actually a master of a little known martial arts style. The Nestea and Skittles he had with him could actually be used as deadly weapons.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:13
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fursmbrero posted:Remind me again, who had the gun and who had the pack of skittles? Remind me again who assaulted who? It's not that hard to grasp.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:13
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Jersey Mike posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsHv9MszlqI And already, the comments are filled with troglodytes. Though, given that the uploader set them to "uploader approved," I'm not surprised.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:13
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It seems like the debate is about whether the notion of procedural justice by the court is also enforcing a broader view of justice that deals with structural inequalities that appear in contingent social norms about race. The procedural justice notion of following procedure and its notions of causality seem to be being critiqued more than anything.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:13
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I guess the best way to settle this racial not/racial thing would be with examples where someone has gotten acquitted from shooting someone not black under similar conditions.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:14
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Remind me again who assaulted who? It's not that hard to grasp. I figured Martin was on trial here.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:15
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Remind me again who assaulted who? It's not that hard to grasp. I can tell you which one is the dead child.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:15
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Devour posted:For the love of god please don't turn this into a gun control thread. Ok, fine, sorry for the derail everyone.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:15
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Twee as gently caress posted:Because he was apparently walking in the rain, looking like he was high and walking on the grass looking at houses that had been burgled in the recent past, according to Zimmerman. Was he supposed to control the weather or change his route after using esp to know which houses had been burgled? As for looking high, what does that mean even? SocketWrench posted:Do you have a breathing machine or something that keeps you alive to post bullshit like this? It's not like I made up intersectionality. You keep on fighting the good fight though, maybe someday we'll all realize this really wasn't a race issue and have a good laugh.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:15
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the runs formula posted:It's also possible that he was shot because he was assaulting another person. I'd forgotten that every fist fight is automatically to the death. Trayvon "Incredible Hulk" Martin would have been forced to beat Zimmerman to death with his bare hands to appease Odin or something. As a grown, reasonably built man in his late 20s, Zimmerman was clearly as defenceless as a crippled kitten. It's not like he could have taken a bit of an rear end-whupping like a man and not murdered a kid.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:15
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fursmbrero posted:Remind me again, who had the gun and who had the pack of skittles? I'll get right on that after you tell me who was, according to all witnesses, on top of whom and who was being bashed on concrete by whom. the posted:-Public disturbance I'm sorry but at the end of the day it's absolutely legal to walk up to someone and call them an rear end in a top hat, it's not going to be a public disturbance, certainly not menacing or threatening anyone. As far as using foul language in public, are you serious? Following someone is not stalking either. That's not what stalking is.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:16
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Twee as gently caress posted:Because he was apparently walking in the rain, looking like he was high and walking on the grass looking at houses that had been burgled in the recent past, according to Zimmerman. I don't, you're right. Though those accounts come from a dude who shot and killed a unarmed kid. I think it's sad that the allegedly suspicious behavior was walking home from the store, possibly high. Something I've done a thousand times as a teenager. Glad it never got me chased down and then shot I guess? Guess Trayvon didn't have the right to walk home without being confronted and followed by an armed man. He totally should have justified his existence in that neighborhood to this random stranger creeping on him in a SUV.
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Jul 14, 2013 06:16
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Bullfrog posted:I can tell you which one is the dead child. You mean the dead child who assaulted someone?
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Jul 14, 2013 06:16
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Ogodei_Khan posted:It seems like the debate is about whether the notion of procedural justice by the court is also enforcing a broader view of justice that deals with structural inequalities that appear in contingent social norms about race. The procedural justice notion of following procedure and its notions of causality seem to be being critiqued more than anything.  beyond using the thesaurus a bit too much this post sums things up very well
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Jul 14, 2013 06:16
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