Florida Does it Again: Zimmerman Ruled Not Guilty

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Florida Does it Again: Zimmerman Ruled Not Guilty

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Arrgytehpirate posted:

This case is nothing loving special and I don't get why anyone gives a flying gently caress. There are dozens of murders and probably hate crimes each day in America and this is the one I get to hear about. Woo loving hoo. I'm glad it's over and I hope everyone can shut the gently caress up about it now.

Nuke the earth, end the suspense.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 05:42

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 12:33

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Zimmerman didn't recite the 14 words and click his heels before shooting Trayvon with a SS luger. No racism involved, its impossible.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 05:45

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

InterceptorV8 posted:

http://blogs.findlaw.com/injured/2012/03/can-trayvons-family-sue-zimmerman-in-civil-court.html

Sorry, Martin's family can't sue Zimmerman.

Thats for SYG not self-defense. Pay attention.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 06:48

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

genesplicer posted:

Can someone who is better versed at Stand Your Ground legislation explain it to me? Can you start a confrontation, then use SYG as a justification to kill the other person if it turns out you are losing?

You have murder
But you have an exception to murder: self defense
Then you have an extra clause to self defense: Stand your ground

If you murder someone
and you were defending yourself (legally)
and you were in the public place (legally)
Then you can Stand Your Ground and not retreat.

So you can whip out the pistol and murder someone with no effort to avoid the conflict if you can prove
-You are not commiting a crime
-In a legal space
-Were in fear of immiment danger and great bodily harm

The catch is if you and another persin have a conflict, and there isn't a substantial or contradicting 3rd party to witness it, then you can kill the person and walk based on your own testimony and a minor investigation. Immunity from arrest, charges, and civil cases, SYG

edit: Starting a conflict would be illegal (assault) but if you can prove you using non lethal force and the other person raised the stakes by using lethal force (like a fist fight - the opponent brandishing a weapon), then you are still justified in self-defense with lethal force.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 09:10

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Doctor Factical posted:

Zimmerman is a trigger happy nutjob.

Trayvon is an idiot for going outside after he got home. These are established facts.

Where is the "Trayvon went home" stuff coming from?

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 09:33

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Jeantel said that Trayvon told her he was home but never actually went home. Probably he was saying home as in he's almost home, like home as in his street. He didn't go home, his parents and friend was there. They would have known. He died with the goods he was carrying. He didn't drop anything off.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 09:41

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

argondamn posted:

The location of the fight and Jeantel's testimony lend credibility to Martin going back to confront Zimmerman. Without getting overly detailed, Zimmerman more or less stopped at a certain location after the dispatch told him they didn't need him to follow anyone. Martin was already out of his sight at this point. A minute or so later the fight breaks out at the same spot where Zimmerman had been when he got off the phone. That, along with Jeantel's testimony that he was right by his dad's house, leads me to believe Martin doubled back.

The whole testimony stated that Trayvon was running from Zimmerman and he probably doubled back. This isn't hard to understand, people have been saying the same for weeks.

Lumberjack Bonanza posted:

This is what it comes down to. In a court of law, what matters should be fact. In a way, I'm glad that sentiment didn't rule the day, but I can't help but wonder if it wasn't for such sentiment that Zimmerman would have at least served time for a lesser crime that was also more accurate based on the evidence.

Manslaughter is rolled into Murder 2. If Murder 2 fails, they jury could have settled for Manslaughter. The juror acquitted him of all charges. That's Florida law.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 11:05

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Shux posted:

People choose their own paths in this world, he wanted to be out on the streets at night instead of at home studying or working. Could of just as easily been some white junkie acting suspect and ending up getting shot.

Shoot everyone walking at night. That's the only solution. I mean, only bad people do drugs and flip the bird.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 12:02

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

SocketWrench posted:

Martin making it home after losing Zimmerman

This never happened.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 12:12

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

argondamn posted:

1) Jeantel's testimony.
2) Location of the fight.
3) Time between the end of Zimmerman's phone call and the fight.

His father and friend was at home, he died with the goods from the store on him, and he never said he was home he said he was by his house.

WEST: And he could have just run home if he wasn't there.
JEANTEL: He was already by his house. He told me.
WEST: Of course, you don't know if he was telling you the truth of not.
JEANTEL: Why he need to lie about that, sir?
WEST: Maybe if he decided to assault George Zimmerman, he didn't want you to know about it.
JEANTEL: That's real retarded, sir.

Read it yourself
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1306/27/acd.01.html

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 12:23

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Zimmerman was well within his rights to carry a concealed handgun and follow black teens around their neighborhood. The broken system still works.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 14:38

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Twee as gently caress posted:

Martin was suspicious because he had four minutes to make it to his house (which, running, should have taken about a minute or two). Instead, he ended up confronting Zimmerman and it cost him his life.

No no, Martin ran and probably ran behind some houses and doubled back. Zimmerman said he saw the "suspect" run between houses. Martin ran to avoid Zimmerman because Zimmerman was following him. Zimmerman walked down the dog walk. They both turned around to go back to their business and that's when they probably ran into each other. Probably scared each other. But what happened after that is between Zimmerman and Martin and only one can talk.

Martin's phone call backs up his running from Zimmerman. But between both phone calls, there is 2 minutes unaccounted for and the only living witness didn't mention or recall what happened. I wonder why?

And Trayvon had no as in 0 boxer injuries on his hand. Zimmerman at most had a bloody nose and strangely refused going to the hospital the night of the encounter. For Martin to beat up Zimmerman, there is no evidence to support more than a pop in the nose.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 16:21

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Sappo569 posted:

Check out the video link I just posted.

Eyewitness account of Martin wailing on Zimmerman

Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. Even Zimmerman forgot details and told 3 different stories.

edit: If Martin was wailing on Zimmerman, why are no injuries on his right hand, and scratch on his left?

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 16:26

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Twee as gently caress posted:

There is no way Zimmerman would be able to ever outrun Trayvon. Be real, here. No way he could even sprint for more than what, 15 seconds? Did you listen to the gym owner?

Zimmerman was a fat, soft pudgy guys with barely any muscle on. There is also no proof to back up the fact that Zimmerman ever ran.

Yeah, Martin had four minutes to run away from there. Yet he never left the very area where he ended up dead. He could have gone home and back twice. Yet he didn't. And it's not two minutes, it's less than a minute from the moment Zimmerman hung up until they were talking.

A medical examiner already explained the lack of apparent external injuries on the hands of Trayvon.

As far as Zimmerman refusing to go to the hospital, this man was beaten up, feared for his life and had to kill someone in self-defense. He was under such a shock that it's normal for people to act that way. You routinely have people getting shot who say that it's fine, they'll walk it off no need to go to the hospital. People react in strange ways when they are victims of a trauma.

As far as no evidence that Martin beat zimmerman, he had a broken nose, signs of other punches in the face, the back of his head hitting the concrete oh and multiple eyewitnesses that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and hitting him.

I think you are making poo poo up. Zimmerman lost a lot of weight at the time and was in shape. Testimony backs that up. Martin had no obligation to run anyway.

Martin had no obligation to go straight home regardless. Still, he didn't want someone following him so he doubted back.

I watched the trial and testimony by Dr. Bao so I don't remember any explanation for why Martin didn't have injuries other than the off chance Martin threw really weak punches which doesn't really justify a bullet to the heart.

Zimmerman was so in shock, he refused medical treatment? That's a stretch.

Yes witnesses saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. Now, is that murder? Attempted murder? Non lethal force does not justify the use of lethal force. But see, he was afraid .... great bodily harm....I know where this is going.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 16:41

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Twee as gently caress posted:

Someone was on top of him, no one was coming to his help, he was being pummeled and had his head bashed into the concrete. It has been determined by the courts that it was sufficient for getting freed on self-defense. So did the police that very night when they let him go after 5 hours without pressing charges.

I can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt anything I say is true. However, the case isn't as clear cut as you make it.

Yes, it was legal. Didn't help that the state did not want to press charges until national attention and a specific request by the lead investigator. Its all legal but it isn't justice.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 16:52

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Twee as gently caress posted:

You say it's 'legal but not justice'. I say that a man who was being assaulted, corroborated by all the evidence as well as the eyewitnesses, and had to kill in self-defense getting a trial where, even though some where screaming for his blood and to railroad him to jail, got a fair and impartial trial where he was found not guilty sounds exactly like justice to me.

A lot of the public was against Zimmerman and a lot of the public supported Zimmerman (for all the wrong reasons). But yes, the system works. The problem is the laws in Florida suck. So it is a triumph that the gears to the meat grinder are still turning.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 16:59

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Twee as gently caress posted:

Here is the map:

My personal, non legally binding opinion is:

Martin probably ran up to the top of the map behind some houses
Zimmerman walked east to the other street, across the T intersection
Martin turned south towards the dog walk
Zimmerman turned back west to where he car was
They met and surprised each other at the T intersection

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 17:47

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

In order to get manslaughter, you have to prove it wasn't self-defense. So Murder 2 was as good as manslaughter, and the evidence for a Murder 2 was contestable.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 17:57

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Twee as gently caress posted:

We know Martin took that T intersection and turned, because Zimmerman said so then said he lost sight of him, and started to follow him down that path.

There is no logical way where Martin could have ran and then ended up back at that T intersection if he was trying to get away from Zimmerman.

Its called a double back. I'm surprised this is such a revolutionary technique, that is practiced by anyone who has ever cut class or tried to lose someone driving.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 17:58

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

ClemenSalad posted:

You arent allowed to pick a fight and kill someone. Theres just literally zero evidence he did that, hence he got off.

If you kill the suspect and have a bump on your toe, who's going to contradict you?

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 18:05

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

ClemenSalad posted:

And Zimmerman literally never "ran" anywhere. Remember both Martin and zimmerman said they lost eachother before he even left his car. There was no footchase at any point. He was never more than a few seconds walk from his car.

Actually martin told the person he was on the phone with he made it home and was going back. Just go read a timeline of the case or something if you are confused.

temple posted:

His father and friend was at home, he died with the goods from the store on him, and he never said he was home he said he was by his house.

WEST: And he could have just run home if he wasn't there.
JEANTEL: He was already by his house. He told me.
WEST: Of course, you don't know if he was telling you the truth of not.
JEANTEL: Why he need to lie about that, sir?
WEST: Maybe if he decided to assault George Zimmerman, he didn't want you to know about it.
JEANTEL: That's real retarded, sir.

Read it yourself
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1306/27/acd.01.html

Please stop saying that Martin went home and came back.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 18:10

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Waco Panty Raid posted:

Yeah, gently caress the relative safety of a locked door, a fixed address for the police to come to, and maybe a weapon or two.

Honestly, this argument pops up in the D&D thread occasionally as well and it literally makes no sense to me. Not saying Martin deserved to die because he didn't go home, but I think most reaosnable people would want to go home. I know when I was followed at night walking home from a bar recently, I just wanted to get home as fast as I could.

Please tell me what is the curfew for being black.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 18:13

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Waco Panty Raid posted:

What the hell does this have to do with anything I said?

Because obviously Trayvon didn't do what he was supposed to do in that situation, according to you. So when time is legally safe for a young black male to be in the house before the neighborhood watch goes looking for him?

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 18:18

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Waco Panty Raid posted:

loving hell this might be the silliest strawman I've read in a while.

No where have I claimed that Martin deserved to die because he was out past some curfew. Hell, if you actually bothered to read the post you were replying to I said the very opposite. All I said is that I think a reasonable person would want to go home and I don't understand this theory being put forth that Martin was afraid to go home and (maybe) let Zimmerman know where he lived.

Apparently you know what reasonable people should do. You used yourself as an example. So, I'm saying, what is your opinion? What would been a good time for Martin to get home before he gets followed and suspected by a neighborhood watch person?

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 18:26

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Waco Panty Raid posted:

The time of day has nothing to do with anything I'm talking about, and I don't understand why you think it does.

I think you are missing the part that Martin had no legal obligation to run straight home and him not getting home faster (your measure of how scared someone can be) doesn't invalid his perception of Zimmerman following him. So either Martin is free to choose how and when he gets home or you should suggest a curfew or possible way to get Zimmerman to stop following him.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2013 18:36

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

OldTennisCourt posted:

Look that kid was suspended for fighting three times. THREE. TIMES.

You are making poo poo up but that's cool. That's fun.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2013 02:54

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Zewle posted:

Even if it he isn't, I got suspended for fighting on multiple occasions, I don't think I should have been shot by a trigger happy rent a cop stalking me on the way home though.

Dude you sound like a trained weapon. Report the police immediately before you hurt someone.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2013 03:09

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

A lot of you missing the point. George didn't break any laws while killing Trayvon, so he's not guilty of anything.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2013 04:55

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

hailthefish posted:

But no, please, resume crowing about how institutional racism against black people means anyone accused of a crime against a black person who isn't black is automatically guilty and deserves to go to jail to make it even and how failing to do so is declaring open season fo literally hunting black folks.

Everyone who isn't black vs the state of Florida. When does that trial start?

# ¿ Jul 15, 2013 09:42

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

SocketWrench posted:

Definitely an rear end in a top hat. I've no argument there.

I do think it's a hell of a long jump to get from rear end in a top hat to murderer though.

He is a murderer. By claiming self-defense, he admitted as much. He is a legally justified murderer.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2013 10:19

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Lester Chambers produced a pretty good song too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjdYSSmaTGw

I wonder what Potter made.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2013 15:45

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 12:33

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

If you remove race, you are removing "the facts". If you want to remove concepts like race, then why no remove concepts like justice, logic, and self-defense? Just remove whatever makes you sleep better at night.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2013 12:46

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