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Fucknag posted:Idea which is probably terrible: Hook the alternator up to 2 6-volt batteries wired in series and run split electrical systems like some semis do with 12V. Wire both together to run a modern starter, tap off just one to run the stock electrical system and the other for a bitchin' stereo system! Good Idea, but its a better bet to just go with a complete modern 12v system. But again, this is your car, we are just offering suggestions as to make the every day living with the car easier. Though it was never really established... Do you want a weekend cruiser/parade mobile or a DD? But if you dont want to outlay the cost on a new ignition, points and condensers are pretty easy to change out and set too.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:30
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Good Idea, but its a better bet to just go with a complete modern 12v system. I basically bought it with intentions of being partially DD, partially weekend funmobile. I have a reliable Honda Fit and two motorcycles, so it's not like I won't be able to go to work if this thing fails. So I'd like to get it running pretty reliably, with the expectation that this will probably entail a certain amount of non-stockness, but I also don't want to frankenstein it too terribly. I ordered new points and a new condenser last night. I think this has had a 12V conversion done in some fashion, since it has a big modern-style battery and a modern stereo stashed under the passenger seat. I'd have to check.
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Jul 17, 2013 21:01
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Pham Nuwen posted:I think this has had a 12V conversion done in some fashion, since it has a big modern-style battery and a modern stereo stashed under the passenger seat. I'd have to check. You definitely have a 12v system. Unless there is something seriously done improperly..... Anyways, yeah, your going to modify this car then. Its also worth looking to putting a more modern carb on this thing too.
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Jul 17, 2013 21:51
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BrokenKnucklez posted:You definitely have a 12v system. Unless there is something seriously done improperly..... Anyways, yeah, your going to modify this car then. Its also worth looking to putting a more modern carb on this thing too. Should I just ask around on the Studebaker forums for carburetor recommendations? What would I get out of a more modern carb vs. the rebuild 1962 carburetor?
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Jul 17, 2013 22:00
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If your current carb is sufficiently corroded / damaged, you'll be fighting poor sealing on it even with fresh gaskets. Some carb designs tend to be more reliable and easier to live with, as well (i.e. every Solex two-barrel that was replaced with a Weber).
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Jul 17, 2013 22:03
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IOwnCalculus posted:If your current carb is sufficiently corroded / damaged, you'll be fighting poor sealing on it even with fresh gaskets. Some carb designs tend to be more reliable and easier to live with, as well (i.e. every Solex Solex  So, what's wrong with points? I've put hundreds of thousands of km on various cars with them without issue. I've even had a couple of distributor rotors explode but never had issues with points.
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Jul 17, 2013 22:26
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Its a Carter carb according to some reading and, luckily, those are pretty user friendly. See how the rebuild goes with keeping the idea of buying a new carb in the back of your mind.General_Failure posted:Solex Nothing wrong with them, just a potential failure point. Electronic is simpler and pretty much maintenance free.
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Jul 17, 2013 22:27
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IOwnCalculus posted:If your current carb is sufficiently corroded / damaged, you'll be fighting poor sealing on it even with fresh gaskets. Some carb designs tend to be more reliable and easier to live with, as well (i.e. every Solex two-barrel that was replaced with a Weber). It should be a Carter carb from what I can google; I'll have to double check but I'm busy with birthday plans tonight. I suppose I can tear it down, post pictures, and then make the call to either rebuild it or replace it.
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Jul 17, 2013 22:28
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If it's something that isn't known to be nightmarish to rebuild or live with I'd probably rebuild it then. Hell of a lot cheaper than a lot of new carbs on the market, plus the pain in the rear end of adapting your throttle / choke linkages and the baseplate.
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Jul 17, 2013 22:32
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IOwnCalculus posted:If it's something that isn't known to be nightmarish to rebuild or live with I'd probably rebuild it then. Hell of a lot cheaper than a lot of new carbs on the market, plus the pain in the rear end of adapting your throttle / choke linkages and the baseplate. In all fairness linkages aren't all that hard to adapt with some careful thought beforehand. Baseplate adapters can be a pain in the rear end especially when the catalog item not only doesn't fit but it's so hilariously wrong that it couldn't even be adapted. If it is a horror carb replace it. They aren't worth the headache. I'm even looking to replace my BA3 copy of a copy of a Weber with a Weber just because trying to get some carbs dialed in right is like herding cats, especially when someone else has played with them and the ravages of time have taken their toll.
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Jul 17, 2013 23:25
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Here's my carburetor, it looks pretty decent I guess: So once I've confirmed that this is the right kit, I'll probably order the rebuild kit: http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Carter-AS-Studebaker-Carburetor-Kit_p_1525.html
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Jul 18, 2013 05:51
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I'd be a bit concerned about that wet spot next to the throttle linkage. A common place for carburetor wear is ovaling out of the butterfly shaft, which is not always straightforward to repair. Someone with more experience with these particular carburetors ought to have more insight.
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Jul 18, 2013 08:16
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Bucephalus posted:Just don't do anything drastic. My dad knew a guy in high school that bought a beater Lark and swapped in a worked Mopar 318. Probably would've been pretty fast if the tires had ever hooked up.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:41
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Raluek posted:I'd be a bit concerned about that wet spot next to the throttle linkage. A common place for carburetor wear is ovaling out of the butterfly shaft, which is not always straightforward to repair. Someone with more experience with these particular carburetors ought to have more insight. That's a death sentence from what I've seen, but I only deal with stuff that is a dime a dozen in boneyards. Getting the bore machined and sleeved might be prohibitively expensive. And if that needs to happen, setting butterfly valves back properly might be a steep hurdle for a first rebuild experience. Grab the throttle shaft and see if there is play before ordering anything.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:49
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I changed out the air filter for a clean one, then took a stick of soft wood and tapped a bit where the fuel pipe enters the carb, at the suggestion of the Studebaker guys. This time it seemed to run ok, although by the time the temp gauge got to the middle of the range, the idle oil pressure had dropped to around 15 psi. Pulled a few spark plugs, they're quite black but not oily, seems like a dry carbon residue which apparently means it's running rich. This weekend I'll have more time to work on it, I'll take a shot at a compression test followed by replacing the spark plugs. What's the best way to prevent fuel from flowing into the engine during the compression test if I have a mechanical fuel pump?
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Jul 19, 2013 04:30
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Oh hey have a video of the engine idling, it sounds kind of like a diesel to me and I'm not sure why... but then I have never owned a 1960s inline 6 so I have no idea what it's meant to sound like: https://vimeo.com/70603586
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Jul 19, 2013 04:51
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The exhaust note sounds right for one of those old sixes, sounds like you need to adjust your tappets, which is what's giving you the diesel noise
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Jul 19, 2013 06:18
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Pham Nuwen posted:I changed out the air filter for a clean one, then took a stick of soft wood and tapped a bit where the fuel pipe enters the carb, at the suggestion of the Studebaker guys. Did you remember the chant and the ritual sacrifice as well? Seriously....WTF was that supposed to do? Pham Nuwen posted:Pulled a few spark plugs, they're quite black but not oily, seems like a dry carbon residue which apparently means it's running rich. This weekend I'll have more time to work on it, I'll take a shot at a compression test followed by replacing the spark plugs. What's the best way to prevent fuel from flowing into the engine during the compression test if I have a mechanical fuel pump? Why are you replacing plugs when you're still running rich? You're just going to foul the new ones. Rebuild your carb. My guess is there is no making it no run rich as-is because your seats are worn out and your float is probably mush and won't close/float anymore. How do you keep from flowing gas during the compression test? A wide pair of vise grips clamped on a fuel line. Not too hard, you don't want to damage it, just stop the flow.
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Jul 19, 2013 14:37
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Motronic posted:Did you remember the chant and the ritual sacrifice as well? It can loosen a stuck float or needle valve. I've had an old carb that occasionally needed it. Nowadays if a carbd car gives me fits, its time for a weber or efi.
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Jul 19, 2013 14:56
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mafoose posted:It can loosen a stuck float or needle valve. I've had an old carb that occasionally needed it. Nowadays if a carbd car gives me fits, its time for a weber or efi. Bingo. At least that was the intent.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:01
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mafoose posted:It can loosen a stuck float or needle valve. I've had an old carb that occasionally needed it. Nowadays if a carbd car gives me fits, its time for a weber or efi. Yeah.....if a float or a needle valve sticks once that's fine to get you home (although I've never quite heard of this particular procedure.....you just take off the air cleaner and smack it back down a couple of times...everything you need is already on the car). But, especially now with fuel that's eating plastic and rubber, that's a losing battle requiring a rebuild/replacement.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:05
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Motronic posted:Yeah.....if a float or a needle valve sticks once that's fine to get you home (although I've never quite heard of this particular procedure.....you just take off the air cleaner and smack it back down a couple of times...everything you need is already on the car). But, especially now with fuel that's eating plastic and rubber, that's a losing battle requiring a rebuild/replacement. One of the Studebaker forums members has offered to send me one of his extra carb kits for $20. Tapping the carb was a way to see if it might be a carb problem. Also you're right about replacing plugs, it's dumb before I fix the mixture. The current plugs seem to work ok for now anyway.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:18
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Your low oil pressure is due to the oil at this point. I have yet to see a mention of an oil change. While your at it, order a kit from Blackstone Labs http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ They will give you an oil analysis, just give them all the details from your car. I know a fellow forum member sent me his oil analysis and they are super in depth.... almost to the point of ridiculous. But change your drat oil then worry about readings. There are some engines that will happily survive on 15 psi all day.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:29
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Your low oil pressure is due to the oil at this point. I have yet to see a mention of an oil change. I did change the oil, I mentioned that back on page 1. I used Rotella T 15W40. I've ordered the kit.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:15
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Motronic posted:Yeah.....if a float or a needle valve sticks once that's fine to get you home (although I've never quite heard of this particular procedure.....you just take off the air cleaner and smack it back down a couple of times...everything you need is already on the car). But, especially now with fuel that's eating plastic and rubber, that's a losing battle requiring a rebuild/replacement. Roadkill is pretty fond of using a socket and extension. I have a soft spot for that episode, since they were in my home town. 
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Jul 19, 2013 23:31
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Pham Nuwen posted:I did change the oil, I mentioned that back on page 1. I used Rotella T 15W40. I can red gud. Yeah I wouldn't get to overly concerned with the oil pressure yet. As long as its flowing around the engine correctly and lubing all the parts it doesn't matter to terribly much. Get a compression test done though.
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Jul 20, 2013 00:44
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Is it the stock pressure gauge? Try putting in a decent one if it is and double checking. Honestly on an old engine, 15psi idle hot oil pressure is no problem.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:23
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SNiPER_Magnum posted:That's a death sentence from what I've seen, but I only deal with stuff that is a dime a dozen in boneyards. Getting the bore machined and sleeved might be prohibitively expensive. And if that needs to happen, setting butterfly valves back properly might be a steep hurdle for a first rebuild experience. There's a little bit of wiggle room on the throttle shaft. Just enough so that I can feel the shaft move, and I see a little bit of fuel being pushed around when I do that. Here's a few more pictures:   There is fuel around the base of the carb. Not sure if it is coming from the throttle shaft or elsewhere. The engine did not feel like starting today. Well, it started the first time, then did the ever-slowing idle thing and wouldn't start properly again. Giving it some gas while turning the key could make it start firing, but it never really got running properly. I had the air filter off for some of this, the carb seems ungodly loud at idle. Kind of a hissy, sputtery noise. Is that normal? I haven't run a carbureted car without a filter before. Maybe it's time to ask around the Studebaker forums, see if somebody can spare a compatible carb. Edit: Oh, and the idle mixture screw was set at 3.5 (!) turns. I experimented with it at 1.5 turns and 2.5, but neither worked any better so for the time being I have returned it to the original setting. Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 21:21
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With that shaft pissing fuel you've little chance of getting things straight. New carb or get it resleeved time I'm afraid.
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Jul 20, 2013 22:21
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Pham Nuwen posted:Maybe it's time to ask around the Studebaker forums, see if somebody can spare a compatible carb. I'd suggest you rebuild what you've got instead. http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Carter-AS-Carburetor-Parts_c_186.html
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Jul 20, 2013 22:26
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The base gasket is pretty wet, and is what looks like a sheet of aluminium under it normal?
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Jul 20, 2013 22:57
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You can check the throttle shaft for a vacuum leak (spray some starter fluid there and see if the RPMs surge), but I am with Cakefool. If you can see fuel there, it's a pretty good sign that it's done. Air whistles around the butterfly valves when they are closed and the engine is pulling full vacuum. It howl like a banshee when the choke is on. The big metal air cleaner box is there to reduce noise. I wouldn't worry about hissing. Sputtering doesn't sound good. Are you setting the idle screw when the engine is cold? It needs to be warm with the choke off. And you will not be able to set it by ear on your first rodeo. You need an accurate instrument to help. The best is a wide scale vacuum gauge (usually in a fuel pressure tester kit). You can use a tach (and will want one after a rebuild), but the vacuum gauge is SO EASY it's stupid. A proper phenolic carb spacer and gasket would help with your hot starting problem. Check if one is available for your carb.
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Jul 20, 2013 23:39
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I've pulled the carburetor. Is that gas supposed to be hanging around in there?  Whatever, time to take a look.  The Studebaker guys recommend I start by just pulling the top off and having a look at the floats and such. One of them offered me a carb kit but hasn't responded again, so if he doesn't answer soon I guess I'll order one online.
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Jul 21, 2013 21:36
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Totally unrelated, but what is that ball valve for on the left side of the engine bay? 
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Jul 21, 2013 22:30
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My Rhythmic Crotch posted:Totally unrelated, but what is that ball valve for on the left side of the engine bay? If I had to make a guess I'd say it's a heater valve. Not the first time I've seen that setup especially when the OE valve is a piece of poo poo and lives in the cabin.
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Jul 21, 2013 22:32
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A clean shop manual? Cherish that photo. 
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Jul 21, 2013 23:08
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Cakefool posted:A clean shop manual? Cherish that photo. Brand new, I'm breaking it in... it already falls readily to the carburetor page. Now to figure out how to get the needle valve assembly out, it just says "remove the needle valve assembly". Edit: and yeah, that valve is for cabin heat. Edit 2: Got the needle valve sorted, turns out the fuel line receiver was just seated really well and took a bit of force to break free. Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 23:17
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Disassembled the carb, didn't have too much trouble in general. The manual is sufficient for the task and I just put the pieces into an ice cube tray. Probably won't be making any more ice in there. Ok so I'm supposed to remove the metering rod retainer clip, but what do I see instead? Some janky-rear end bit of wire soldered to one piece and wrapped around the other.  Oh well, the wire broke as I tried to untwist it. I'll have to try to find a replacement or hillbilly something up again. I hope this little bastard got dislodged during disassembly and fell down there. Actually, maybe it would be better if it had already been in there, that would at least explain the problems  It's a little bit gunky down there, but not too terrible.  The floats float, nothing seems too terrible. Actually all the parts of the carb seem pretty clean, although the inside of the choke assembly is FILTHY. At this point I think I'll just wait to re-assemble it after I get a carb kit.
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Jul 22, 2013 00:47
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Ok, so an update after a long period of mostly inactivity. The Carter AS carburetor had a part called the metering rod retainer clip. My carb is missing that part. Apparently it wasn't really a thing on any other carburetor, and people tended to try to remove it with pliers, breaking it. Since this carburetor was only made for a few years and was only on some Studebakers and Ramblers, they are basically unobtainium these days. Rather than try to hillbilly something together, I decided to either get a NOS carb or have mine remanufactured. I had a line on a NOS carb, but the guy never seemed to get around to, you know, going out to the shop to find the drat thing, so after giving him over a month I just said gently caress it. I called Daytona Parts and talked to Ron about my options. They could remanufacture the carburetor for me. This would cost about $300, take 6+ weeks, and involve them machining a new metering rod retainer clip. The other option is to buy one of their universal carburetors for $320; these seem pretty well-regarded among Studebaker owners, require minimal modifications to install, and could be here by Wednesday. You might have guessed what I did. The universal carb should be here in about a week. Then it's just a matter of mounting it, replacing the fuel line connector, and routing a manual choke cable into the cabin.
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Aug 30, 2013 06:17
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As nice as I this to keep things stock, some times you just gotta say gently caress it and make life easy. Be interested in when your ride gets going.
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Aug 30, 2013 14:29
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