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My Mother The Car
Feb 15, 2001
When does the hurting stop?

Wroughtirony posted:

The long-term usefulness of a culinary degree mostly pertains to non-cooking jobs. It's a nice feather in your cap if you want to work as a rep, work FOH someplace fancy, work for a winery or manage FOH or be GM of a smaller place. It can offset the blow (slightly) of not having a Bachelors in a food-related job.

None of these are good reasons to get a culinary degree, I'm just pointing out that it's not complete toilet paper, just mostly toilet paper.

In my opinion the ONLY good reason to go to culinary school is as follows: You're wealthy or someone else is paying for it. The cost of culinary school is so ridiculous that it's impossible for most people to pay the loans on a cook's salary. IMPOSSIBLE. If you're getting a free ride, go right ahead! Culinary school is FUN. You get to play with all kinds of fun ingredients and learn some old-school techniques that will help you gain a good foundation for future learning. When you graduate, you will be totally unprepared for life in a real-world kitchen, but you will have a skill set that will allow you (if you apply yourself) to progress far more quickly than you would otherwise. Think of it as a pass for the HOV lane.

tl;dr: Culinary school owns, it's PAYING for it that sucks, do it if you're loaded but don't expect to come out of it as anything but an overqualified prep cook.

I'd mostly agree with this.

The only thing I think I would point out is this: You get EXACTLY as much out of culinary school as you put in.

You go at 18/19 and treat it like a regular 4 year degree; gently caress around, drink alot, blow off your studies? Odds are you aren't going to get as much as the person who really buckles their poo poo down and studies(the 'boring poo poo' like McGee*); takes every class day seriously and makes an effort from top to bottom.

Basically culinary school is just like life in a kitchen; alot of the people are lazy shitheels with little ambition and the people who give a poo poo/bust rear end/stay organized end up doing alright. Bear in mind that doing alright in an industry like this can be absolutely ball-crushing if you don't REALLY loving ENJOY cooking.

I have alot of issues with the school I am going to graduate from. It's horribly mismanaged, crazily overpriced, and has let its standards slip...but over the course of MY time there I have lived/worked in Philadelphia, worked in NYC, spent a summer working at a Farm-to-Table restaurant in the Napa Valley under one of the best American chefs of all time, made connections on both coasts and have had most of education paid for by scholarship awards and grants.

I worked my rear end off and built a whole mess of skills; will I walk into a sous-chef job? Not at anywhere worth working. Will I get out of Garde Manger and onto a real station quick? Sure.

Was culinary school worth it for me? Yup, but YMMV.

*McGee is awesome.

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Sir Spaniard
Nov 9, 2009

So I got a call from the work number today. One of the other chefs was calling me. Turns out he's damaged my knife somehow. I should be able to fix it but he's caused a weird bow or bend in it somehow.

That's not what matters, especially if I can fix it...

He's offered to get me a new knife and ... I'm looking at this. Has anyone used one of these brand knives at all?

http://www.amazon.com/ZHEN-Japanese-67-Layer-Damascus-Vegetable/dp/B00E0EF7OG

I've never heard of them but they're coming up as a result for Yaxell/Ran knives and...I like how it looks..

Errant Gin Monks
Oct 2, 2009

"Yeah..."
- Marshawn Lynch
:hawksin:

Sir Spaniard posted:

So I got a call from the work number today. One of the other chefs was calling me. Turns out he's damaged my knife somehow. I should be able to fix it but he's caused a weird bow or bend in it somehow.

That can happen when you use it to try to pry poo poo open and bend the knife. It's not a loving screwdriver.

Sir Spaniard
Nov 9, 2009

The guy said he dropped it or something. He sent me a photo and it's a quarter way up from the heel, so no idea how. It was a Wusthof too. :(

Errant Gin Monks
Oct 2, 2009

"Yeah..."
- Marshawn Lynch
:hawksin:

Sir Spaniard posted:

The guy said he dropped it or something. He sent me a photo and it's a quarter way up from the heel, so no idea how. It was a Wusthof too. :(

Did he drop it and then run over it with a loving blast chiller or warming rack?

Thoht
Aug 3, 2006

It's VG10, which is a decent enough steel in the right hands, but the design looks really wonky to me. The height and shape make it look like it should be good at chopping but then the edge has a ton of belly, making it pretty much only good for heavy-handed rocking. It has like no flat section at all on it. It's also heavy and only 7" long.

Willie Tomg
Feb 2, 2006
The dude who came in to be the new line sous hosed the dog by acting like a diva and doofing up some pretty basic poo poo (ohmygod just learn this line. stop talking about your time in fine dining, if it was that fine then executing this really well shouldn't be so hard. stop flirting with the hostess you dingus and do work) and will probably be around to see a new guy transferring in get put into sous in his place, and tonight I learned the servers hate him so loving much that they've gone out of their way to avoid selling his specials. We lost Mucha Dinero on NY strip brought in for special entrees that didn't move because the servers stayed mum as a passive aggressive response to him making such outlandish demands as "pull your tickets" and "punch your tickets in right" and "take this food out of the window, TIA"


I haven't had to deal with this much utterly easily avoided drama since high school and I'm just trying to find a point in the chain of command to have a Talking about this for some impromptu group therapy because unlike high school I don't think this is solvable by getting the rich kids hooked on coke with the cut washed out.



OR IS IT?!?!?! :getin:

Kenning
Jan 11, 2009

I really want to post goatse. Instead I only have these🍄.



Who buys a premium-priced protein to run as a special? Unless you're demo-ing a new menu item I guess.

Mercedes Colomar
Nov 1, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dummies, mostly :v:. We're losing one of our Sous to a nursing home apparently, which is good for him. And we've gotten two new Sous that actually know how to do things! It's amazing, unlike the one I mentioned before with croutons. She can barely even cook a loving burger, and I also heard tell of a night where she managed to let three pizzas burn in the span of 5-10 minutes.

Also, early shifts. Like, 5AM, are nice. I miss this early time back in the early days of the store when I was opening/working our breakfast/crepes/rosti area. Then that closed up and got remodeled for the subs, as well as bringing in burgers. That happened about a year ago. I'm working early again since our receiver left for a teaching job, and I was asked if I wanted to do it. Need to find the boss lady and remind her of our conversation about making me full-time finally.

Dane
Jun 18, 2003

mmm... creamy.

DrPain posted:

Anybody work on the supply side of this madness? I've got a very real chance at getting in as a sales rep for a big seafood distributor and would like to discuss the finer points of fish monging.

I know that TB works as a wine rep now, I seem to recall someone was in dry goods (but that might have been a few thread iterations ago). Lots of people here will have a ton of experience from the other side of your desk / car window / fence.

Sir Spaniard
Nov 9, 2009

Speaking of sous chefs, we just lost our second one in a row to being fired because he and the head chef got into a row last Tuesday.


I think head chef will decide to can the position as a result. What's up with sous chefs that say stuff like 'head chef is so lazy' and 'I'm too good for this place' even though he couldn't even make napoli sauce to save his life. He was putting ketchup in it by the gallon.

E: and it was 50% water when he'd pull it off the flame too.
:c

Sir Spaniard fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Oct 20, 2014

Willie Tomg
Feb 2, 2006

Kenning posted:

Who buys a premium-priced protein to run as a special? Unless you're demo-ing a new menu item I guess.

I believe that was kinda sorta the intent, but that requires a lot of paperwork that would make that notion, how you say, silly? And we already have a ribeye on the menu? Maybe they just wanted a flashy showcase just to see what front-house could move, but thats a lot of money to do that considering we ran it for only a night! Anyway done's done and literally everyone is to blame and its all kinda vaguely pathetic but cute like the ending to Hamlet performed by a cast of three legged puppies who hadn't read the script. Whuteva...


Manuel Calavera posted:

Dummies, mostly :v:

Oh god you have unknowingly leveraged Inside Humor to say the most godshittingly funny thing. It's a sign... its a sign...

Congratulations on the new management! Nothing hurts like being under the thumb of a sous or chef who doesn't bring it.

Sir Spaniard posted:

What's up with sous chefs that say stuff like 'head chef is so lazy' and 'I'm too good for this place' even though he couldn't even make napoli sauce to save his life. He was putting ketchup in it by the gallon.

E: and it was 50% water when he'd pull it off the flame too.
:c

Insecurity, with often rightful basis.

Willie Tomg fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Oct 20, 2014

Radio Help
Mar 22, 2007

ChipChip? 

Willie Tomg posted:

Douche woes

How loving ignorant of restaurant dynamics do you have to be to think that alienating foh staff right off the bat is a good idea?

Mercedes Colomar
Nov 1, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
[quote="Willie Tomg" post=""436529337")"]

Congratulations on the new management! Nothing hurts like being under the thumb of a sous or chef who doesn't bring it.
[/quote]

Oh you've no idea how incompetent this woman is. She allegedly was an FoH manager at an UNO before this. Yet she has the worst loving people skills. It's just layers and layers of incompetence.

Invisible Ted
Aug 24, 2011

hhhehehe
So I'm looking to migrate from fine dining to baking professionally at the beginning of next year. I have some basic bakery experience from a private club I baked at, but that was more pastry and dessert focused. Ideally, I'd like to work at a small, down-tempo bakery, but that's not really what I'm asking about. What baking books would bakers here deem essential for someone that's comfortable baking, but needs to broaden their knowledge and technique?

E: It would help to have info on scones and other cafe staples, I'm betting I'd be working a lot with those, judging from my area.

12 rats tied together
Sep 7, 2006

Probably "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" if you haven't read it already. I own a copy, don't do a lot of baking unfortunately, but it (seems like) a pretty incredible book.

e: http://www.amazon.com/The-Bread-Bakers-Apprentice-Extraordinary/dp/1580082688

Errant Gin Monks
Oct 2, 2009

"Yeah..."
- Marshawn Lynch
:hawksin:
You know it never occurred to me that people would wander off with the stuff you served them food on. I get people stealing the mini fryer baskets, metal portion cups, loving metal cone stands, whatever they can. It's amazing. I guess I just don't steal poo poo so it always just makes me blink when someone wanders off with your poo poo like they don't give a gently caress.

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007

Invisible Ted posted:

So I'm looking to migrate from fine dining to baking professionally at the beginning of next year. I have some basic bakery experience from a private club I baked at, but that was more pastry and dessert focused. Ideally, I'd like to work at a small, down-tempo bakery, but that's not really what I'm asking about. What baking books would bakers here deem essential for someone that's comfortable baking, but needs to broaden their knowledge and technique?

E: It would help to have info on scones and other cafe staples, I'm betting I'd be working a lot with those, judging from my area.
The bouchon bakery book is pretty good also. Covers everything from cookies to cakes to breads.

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012

by Athanatos

Errant Gin Monks posted:

You know it never occurred to me that people would wander off with the stuff you served them food on. I get people stealing the mini fryer baskets, metal portion cups, loving metal cone stands, whatever they can. It's amazing. I guess I just don't steal poo poo so it always just makes me blink when someone wanders off with your poo poo like they don't give a gently caress.

Whenever I need more soup spoons for the house I hit up Olive Garden

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004

by R. Guyovich

Errant Gin Monks posted:

You know it never occurred to me that people would wander off with the stuff you served them food on. I get people stealing the mini fryer baskets, metal portion cups, loving metal cone stands, whatever they can. It's amazing. I guess I just don't steal poo poo so it always just makes me blink when someone wanders off with your poo poo like they don't give a gently caress.

I got served a duck breast at a gastropub with a loving authentic forge de laguiole mother of pearl inlaid steak knife. I seriously considered walking off with it, but of course didn't - because mad props to a gastropub doing that poo poo. (a single steak knife is probably $100-175 retail)

still though, I agree

one of my favorite craft beer bars in town has printed in giant lettering 'PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OUR MENUS, WE WILL GIVE YOU A COPY TO TAKE WITH YOU IF YOU ASK' because all their menus are hand mounted with leather straps on some custom made wooden boards and poo poo. I guess people thought they were trophies, or..... ??? who knows.

Errant Gin Monks
Oct 2, 2009

"Yeah..."
- Marshawn Lynch
:hawksin:

mindphlux posted:

I got served a duck breast at a gastropub with a loving authentic forge de laguiole mother of pearl inlaid steak knife. I seriously considered walking off with it, but of course didn't - because mad props to a gastropub doing that poo poo. (a single steak knife is probably $100-175 retail)

still though, I agree

one of my favorite craft beer bars in town has printed in giant lettering 'PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OUR MENUS, WE WILL GIVE YOU A COPY TO TAKE WITH YOU IF YOU ASK' because all their menus are hand mounted with leather straps on some custom made wooden boards and poo poo. I guess people thought they were trophies, or..... ??? who knows.

I just looked it up its 185 for a plain ash wood handle knife. You could have ebayd that thing for 200+

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?
My work shoes are causing my ankles to roll in slightly which is giving me some crazy knee pain. So I"m buying cute boots I'll wear once a week at the most and getting a new set of insoles because of course I am.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Invisible Ted posted:

So I'm looking to migrate from fine dining to baking professionally at the beginning of next year. I have some basic bakery experience from a private club I baked at, but that was more pastry and dessert focused. Ideally, I'd like to work at a small, down-tempo bakery, but that's not really what I'm asking about. What baking books would bakers here deem essential for someone that's comfortable baking, but needs to broaden their knowledge and technique?

E: It would help to have info on scones and other cafe staples, I'm betting I'd be working a lot with those, judging from my area.

The Bread Baker's Apprentice is pretty good. I liked Flour Water Salt Yeast better. The Bread Bible got used as a reference from time to time as well.

That said, I wish you luck finding anything like a down-tempo bakery that isn't a pit of woe and money loss. Bread needs volume of sales to make money, unlike pastry where a single decorated cake can make fairly good prices.

Scones are dirt easy, and freeze well once rolled out and cut to be baked later. My old daily run for the coffee shops was muffins, sweet scones, croissants, dutch letters, turnovers, danishes (fruit and cheese), caramel pecan rolls, raspberry cheese rolls, pains au chocolat, and an assortment of cookies.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Oct 24, 2014

Chef De Cuisinart
Oct 31, 2010

Brandy does in fact, in my experience, contribute to Getting Down.

Liquid Communism posted:

unlike pastry where a single decorated cake can make fairly good prices.

Yep, a wedding cake that costs us $2-300 to produce gets sold for $10k. But gently caress cake decoration because it just isn't my thing.

Wroughtirony
May 14, 2007



WanderingMinstrel I posted:

My work shoes are causing my ankles to roll in slightly which is giving me some crazy knee pain. So I"m buying cute boots I'll wear once a week at the most and getting a new set of insoles because of course I am.


Someone mentioned work shoes so I have to post about DANSKO BRAND SHOES because it's in my contract.

(I wish.)

(No seriously, check them out.)

Radio Help
Mar 22, 2007

ChipChip? 
I like my birkis. Makes me feel like a duckman :3


also they're comfortable and last a long time, but it's mostly the duckman thing.

Republicans
Oct 14, 2003

- More money for us

- Fuck you


Wroughtirony posted:

Someone mentioned work shoes so I have to post about DANSKO BRAND SHOES because it's in my contract.

(I wish.)

(No seriously, check them out.)

I keep meaning to order a pair but I heard bad things about them if you have flat feet, and I have the kind of feet that have a normal arch until you put your weight on it and then they flatten. On the plus side if I walk barefoot on linoleum sometimes it makes noise like an armpit fart. :haw:

On an unrelated note I'd like to ask you all a question: What foodstuffs from restaurant suppliers do you frequently keep around work for personal consumption? I find lately I've been eating a lot of these breaded chicken tenderloins I can get at restaurant depot for $25/10lb. Unlike a lot of frozen processed chicken products that are 50% breading these are lightly coated, fairly meaty and very tasty for something I can chuck in the fryer for a few minutes and eat on my drive home.

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012

by Athanatos

Republicans posted:

What foodstuffs from restaurant suppliers do you frequently keep around work for personal consumption?

Steak fat

Errant Gin Monks
Oct 2, 2009

"Yeah..."
- Marshawn Lynch
:hawksin:

Republicans posted:


On an unrelated note I'd like to ask you all a question: What foodstuffs from restaurant suppliers do you frequently keep around work for personal consumption?

I make pastrami at work so when I'm jonesing for a snack a roll some slices around some chèvre and spinach and just eat little pastrami rolls.

But I don't have anything premade nor do I buy it.

Invisible Ted
Aug 24, 2011

hhhehehe

Liquid Communism posted:

The Bread Baker's Apprentice is pretty good. I liked Flour Water Salt Yeast better. The Bread Bible got used as a reference from time to time as well.

That said, I wish you luck finding anything like a down-tempo bakery that isn't a pit of woe and money loss. Bread needs volume of sales to make money, unlike pastry where a single decorated cake can make fairly good prices.

Scones are dirt easy, and freeze well once rolled out and cut to be baked later. My old daily run for the coffee shops was muffins, sweet scones, croissants, dutch letters, turnovers, danishes (fruit and cheese), caramel pecan rolls, raspberry cheese rolls, pains au chocolat, and an assortment of cookies.

Really, as long as the place I end up at can pay me on time, I don't care too greatly about their profitability. I'd just be going in as a grunt, I'm pretty far away from management right now. I am trying to research scones and cafe grub a bit, because I know that the kind of place I'd end up, that's what I'd be making more of, rather than different breads. I guess I'm looking at small cafes that bake their own goods as potential workplaces, hopefully a place like that would make enough money from beverage sales to stay afloat.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Yeah... about that.

That was why I quit. When the checks started getting late.

Illinois Smith
Nov 15, 2003

Ninety-one? There are ninety other "Tiger Drivers"? Do any involve actual tigers, or driving?
The place being profitable and being able to pay you are kind of related.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

Illinois Smith posted:

The place being profitable and being able to pay you are kind of related.

Not always. A lovely head-hosed owner can make all the difference. Well, they can make a perfectly profitable place unprofitable by meddling and pigheadedness, but they can also have a perfectly good amount of money coming in and just not spend it on paying you when they can spend it on a new car.

Granted that's a rare case. Most of the time yeah places just don't make money, and who the hell knows why people keep trying.

Wroughtirony
May 14, 2007



Republicans posted:

I keep meaning to order a pair but I heard bad things about them if you have flat feet, and I have the kind of feet that have a normal arch until you put your weight on it and then they flatten. On the plus side if I walk barefoot on linoleum sometimes it makes noise like an armpit fart. :haw:

That is exactly the kind of feet I have. I find the slight heel keeps my foot in a position where my ankle doesn't collapse as much as it does in flat shoes.

I recommend trying them before you buy them- people usually have a pretty intense love/hate reaction when they first put them on. There's a little bit of a wearing-in process, but not as much as with most shoes. If they feel really uncomfortable on a first wearing they probably won't get much better for you.

Willie Tomg
Feb 2, 2006
There's a young girl who bumbled her way out of a four year hospitality program at some out of state school and into a management position at our property. It is excruciatingly obvious to everyone that this is her first grown-up job and despite the nice clothes she gets to wear it's food service with all that entails.

Today we ran the bacon-stretcher gag on her.

She was missing for twenty-five minutes and came back upstairs trembling because she couldn't find the lightswitch in the purchasing office.



Four. Years. Of college.

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?

Wroughtirony posted:

Someone mentioned work shoes so I have to post about DANSKO BRAND SHOES because it's in my contract.

(I wish.)

(No seriously, check them out.)

I have actually based on your posting, but I just can't see myself getting through the night either in clogs or in anything with a heel, and I didn't see too much other than those. Also a few coworkers of mine have been of the opinion that danskos are great for standing (chef/management) more than they are walking around (server). I do really need to upgrade my work shoes though, my hours vs knee pain ratio is completely screwed.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

Yeah, anyone got a solid suggestion for some all-day server walkers? I got some new slip-ons that have been ok to me so far outside of ankle pain and breaking them in, but I am seriously concerned about how much longterm damage I might be doing to myself.

JERFit
Dec 25, 2007

if someone said they'd give me money to play music + not have a job anymore I'd say NO
My danskos are over a year old now and I wear them almost every day still, even though I quit my restaurant job a couple weeks ago.
I wear them when its raining, or when I'm mountain biking, working, camping, whatever. They're pretty ugly but they're the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn. I accidentally got them a half size too big (they stretched) but I'm not sure they're ever gonna wear out. Maybe I'll buy another pair in a smaller size one day. I really like those shoes.

MAKE NO BABBYS
Jan 28, 2010
Your Danskos are fine for walking, dummy.

E: by that I mean for serving, I don't know poo poo about wearing a half size too big because I cocktailed and bartended for two years in ~4in stilettos and my feet are comically ruined by it.

MAKE NO BABBYS fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Oct 27, 2014

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Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!

Black August posted:

Yeah, anyone got a solid suggestion for some all-day server walkers? I got some new slip-ons that have been ok to me so far outside of ankle pain and breaking them in, but I am seriously concerned about how much longterm damage I might be doing to myself.

New Balance's various "Rollbar"-containing walkers are pretty fantastic as they prevent you from rolling your feet side to side (and provide a very nice arch support for a pancake-grade flatfoot). I spent a decade in them and only stopped because they quit making them in my size.

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