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Fansy
Feb 26, 2013


Thread being made at a mod's request. Feel free to edit or propose edits to the OP.

Today, Colonel Denise Lind decided that Manning's decision to release cables to the media was not, "aiding the enemy", to the relief of several investigative journalists. She also decided Bradley is not guilty of espionage for releasing the "Collateral Murder" video.

However, Bradley was found guilty (or pleaded guilty) on 20 out of 22 charges against him and faces up to 136 years in prison. Sentencing to happen this week.


Verdict

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/glob...-verdict/67780/
http://www.democracynow.org/live/br...manning_verdict
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning#Verdict

Background

Information Bradley released:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradl...sified_material

World reactions & consequences of the leaks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite...to_the_releases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/React...tic_cables_leak

Bradley's Statement on why he did it:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ement-full-text


Op-Eds


In favor of Bradley Manning: Daniel Ellsberg
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danie..._b_2859353.html



Against Bradley Manning: The Five
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLDLV1NcLso

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Xandu
Feb 19, 2006


It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

A couple things I've noticed.

1. I was reading the EFF's statement on this and I'm not sure it makes much sense.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...cution-strategy

It's essentially saying that he was convicted because the government stereotyped him as a hacker. But I don't the factual claim that he took this files was ever in doubt.

2. It's interesting that every article I've read about this is framed as him being acquitted of aiding the enemy, while the other convictions are treated as secondary information.

OwlBot 2000
Jun 1, 2009


While I'm glad he won't face the death penalty, it seems really stupid not to redact the names of Taliban informants. I don't know if anybody got killed as a direct result or if any operations were compromised, it's just horribly irresponsible. And why on earth did he go around bragging about it, instead of just feeling that he had released some info that needed to be released?

poidinger
Jan 14, 2008

IGNORE ME

rename thread to "Bradley Manning - not guilty of aiding the enemy, but guilty of everything else"

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010
More-than-deserving candidate for a future Stalinist purge

OwlBot 2000 posted:

While I'm glad he won't face the death penalty, it seems really stupid not to redact the names of Taliban informants. I don't know if anybody got killed as a direct result or if any operations were compromised, it's just horribly irresponsible. And why on earth did he go around bragging about it, instead of just feeling that he had released some info that needed to be released?

How is some data grunt going to find the time and opportunity to personally sift through and redact a bazillion documents? That's supposed to be the media's job, isn't it?

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011

Trust us, we're highly trained medical professionals bears.


So, knowing the worst case scenario is life (or effectively life) in prison, what's the best way the sentencing could turn out for Manning at this point?

Torka
Jan 5, 2008



Spiritus Nox posted:

So, knowing the worst case scenario is life (or effectively life) in prison, what's the best way the sentencing could turn out for Manning at this point?

The charges he's facing have no minimum sentence so it'll all come down to how much of an example they want to make of him.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011

Trust us, we're highly trained medical professionals bears.


Torka posted:

The charges he's facing have no minimum sentence so it'll all come down to how much of an example they want to make of him.

So he could theoretically be sent on his way with just a slap on the wrist (and time served, of course)? Interesting. Exceedingly unlikely, but interesting.

DOOP
Sep 3, 2011

I post like Jeff George fucks - Boogie Fever



ABC World News was on the background and they said Manning was convicted on 20/22 charges not 19 per the OP. Not that it functionally matters for Manning, but did he get convicted on the 20th charge?

Fansy
Feb 26, 2013


DOOP posted:

ABC World News was on the background and they said Manning was convicted on 20/22 charges not 19 per the OP. Not that it functionally matters for Manning, but did he get convicted on the 20th charge?

I believe ABC is correct, thanks.

https://twitter.com/carwinb/status/...2209792/photo/1

acephalousuniverse
Nov 3, 2012


Spiritus Nox posted:

So he could theoretically be sent on his way with just a slap on the wrist (and time served, of course)? Interesting. Exceedingly unlikely, but interesting.

I mean, Manning is completely mentally and emotionally destroyed as a result of a few years of being imprisoned and tortured, he's basically already dealing with a life sentence of being utterly hosed up and miserable regardless of whether his legal sentence is a slap on the wrist or not.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011

Trust us, we're highly trained medical professionals bears.


acephalousuniverse posted:

I mean, Manning is completely mentally and emotionally destroyed as a result of a few years of being imprisoned and tortured, she's basically already dealing with a life sentence of being utterly hosed up and miserable regardless of whether her legal sentence is a slap on the wrist or not.

That's why I said on top of time served, take it easy. I wasn't trying to be blithe about her experiences.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002


Every soup ladled to the hungry, every blanket draped over the cold signifies, in the final sense, a theft from my gigantic paycheck.

Xandu posted:

2. It's interesting that every article I've read about this is framed as him being acquitted of aiding the enemy, while the other convictions are treated as secondary information.

To be honest, it's the only one that was really in doubt. I believe his defense didn't contest that he leaked the information, merely argued that it was justifiable and the "aiding the enemy" charge was the real stretch there.

Guidos Python
Sep 7, 2009


Did manning's sister get arrested too I thought only Bradley was invoveled in the crime?

Xandu
Feb 19, 2006


It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Guidos Python posted:

Did manning's sister get arrested too I thought only Bradley was invoveled in the crime?

Elaborate.

Recycle Bin
Feb 7, 2001

I'd rather be a pig than a fascist

Xandu posted:

Elaborate.

He might be referring to acephalousuniverse's talking about Manning as "her"? Manning has been dealing with some gender identity issues since before this whole leaking business.

gleep gloop
Aug 16, 2005

GROSS SHIT

Mannings lawyer has said Bradley wants to be called Bradley and doesn't want to discuss any gender issues.

acephalousuniverse
Nov 3, 2012


Spiritus Nox posted:

That's why I said on top of time served, take it easy. I wasn't trying to be blithe about her experiences.

Oh no I wasn't accusing you, just elaborating. Sorry if my tone was off.

GreenCard78
Apr 25, 2005

It's all in the game, yo.


Does anyone know when Manning would have been out if he hadn't leaked any info? I wonder if he ever thinks about that.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

SCHWÄRTZESTES HERZ
IN ALEMANIA


gleep gloop posted:

Mannings lawyer has said Bradley wants to be called Bradley and doesn't want to discuss any gender issues.

Notably:

http://www.bradleymanning.org/news/...bradley-manning

quote:

From the earliest stages, the Bradley Manning Support Network has sought to honor Manning’s choices. Early in the campaign, we reached out to Manning’s aunt and lawyer and asked what name he preferred we use in our advocacy. They got back to us to say that “Brad” or “Bradley” would be fine.

Since then, we’ve sent Bradley packages in the mail showing him the fliers, stickers, postcards, T-shirts and photos of rallies all emblazoned with the name “Bradley Manning.” Manning has issued three public statements since his incarceration: during his first Christmas behind bars he issued holiday wishes; after many long months in solitary confinement he released a multi-page letter describing his abusive conditions; and after the pretrial hearing in December, he communicated through his aunt that he appreciated our support.

Notably, he didn’t ask us to start referring to him as Breanna. Advocates for Manning have an obligation to respect his agency and use the pronoun he had preferred prior to his arrest. None of us has the right to switch pronouns for Manning unless he tells us otherwise.

People who still refer to him as Breanna are either doing it sarcastically or ignoring his wishes for their own reasons.



edit-

GreenCard78 posted:

Does anyone know when Manning would have been out if he hadn't leaked any info? I wonder if he ever thinks about that.

He went through Basic in 2008; Military Intelligence stuff usually requires a 5 year minimum enlistment (6 is the max for a first term), so he'd either have been out early this year or next year, depending on how long he signed for.

Realistically, he had so many behavioral issues that he might not have made it to the end of his first enlistment. Hindsight is 20/20, but he shouldn't have been deployed with as many warning flags as he set off to start with. The only reason he got sent was the critical shortage of analysts.

acephalousuniverse
Nov 3, 2012


I actually didn't know that, I wasn't being sarcastic, sorry! I'm behind on the gender thing with him I guess. Will edit post.

captainblastum
Dec 1, 2004
Something Witty

Is there any standing for appeals based on the extreme length it took to get a trial, and/or cruel and unusual punishment during that time?

And, I guess while I'm here, would that be any different if this was not a military trial?

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

SCHWÄRTZESTES HERZ
IN ALEMANIA


captainblastum posted:

Is there any standing for appeals based on the extreme length it took to get a trial, and/or cruel and unusual punishment during that time?

And, I guess while I'm here, would that be any different if this was not a military trial?

There is one active JAG officer in GIP, he hasn't weighed in on the case (and might not want to, in all honesty) but we can ask. My (completely not a legal professional) take:

1: Length, no. 3 years is certainly rare for a court martial, but the right to a "speedy trial" is all but dead in the civilian courts, so I can't imagine it's much of a grounds for appeal in the military ones.

2. Cruel/unusual, probably better standing here. Manning's pre-trial treatment was certainly not the military justice system's finest moment (not allowed to have sheets, forced to report every morning in the nude, etc.), but I have no idea how this would go on appeal.

3. He'd probably have better standing on #2 on the civilian side.

Dolash
Oct 23, 2008

Pickle: Inspected.


GD_American posted:

There is one active JAG officer in GIP, he hasn't weighed in on the case (and might not want to, in all honesty) but we can ask. My (completely not a legal professional) take:

1: Length, no. 3 years is certainly rare for a court martial, but the right to a "speedy trial" is all but dead in the civilian courts, so I can't imagine it's much of a grounds for appeal in the military ones.

2. Cruel/unusual, probably better standing here. Manning's pre-trial treatment was certainly not the military justice system's finest moment (not allowed to have sheets, forced to report every morning in the nude, etc.), but I have no idea how this would go on appeal.

3. He'd probably have better standing on #2 on the civilian side.

The problem with cruel and unusual punishment is that you're pretty much trusting the same institution that allowed him to be mistreated in the first place to then turn around and admonish themselves for it. I don't know how strong the checks and balances are within the military, but I'd suspect the military's own justice system would have somewhat of a vested interest in supporting its strategic goals over administering justice.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004
I hate tarsiformes

Dolash posted:

The problem with cruel and unusual punishment is that you're pretty much trusting the same institution that allowed him to be mistreated in the first place to then turn around and admonish themselves for it. I don't know how strong the checks and balances are within the military, but I'd suspect the military's own justice system would have somewhat of a vested interest in supporting its strategic goals over administering justice.
He was already granted extra time served for his mistreatment. So it isn't like anything is being swept under the rug.

platedlizard
Aug 31, 2012

I like plates and lizards.


With all the poo poo he's gone through I hope that Bradley gets something like two years probation with time served.

OwlBot 2000
Jun 1, 2009


Obama will give the poor fella a full pardon when he finishes his term, I reckon.

President Kucinich
Feb 21, 2003

Bitterly Clinging to my AK47 and Das Kapital


OwlBot 2000 posted:

Obama will give the poor fella a full pardon when he finishes his term, I reckon.

Hey buddy, I made that joke a long time ago. Get your own material.

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010
LIKES: GUMMI BEARS

DISLIKES: JEWS, BLACKS, GAYS, HISPANICS, GYPSIES, ABORIGINES


captainblastum posted:

Is there any standing for appeals based on the extreme length it took to get a trial, and/or cruel and unusual punishment during that time?

And, I guess while I'm here, would that be any different if this was not a military trial?

I don't think "cruel and unusual punishment" would fly. Sadly enough, everything he went through was fairly standard prison procedures. Indefinite solitary confinement happens all the time in the civilian prison system, and I don't think it's likely any judge will buy that regular suicide watch procedures constitute a rights violation, regardless of whether Manning posed a suicide risk. The only things "unusual" about what happened to Manning were that they happened in military prison (which I'm under the impression is generally less assholish), and that they happened to a celebrity figure that white peoplecared about.

GreyjoyBastard
Mar 28, 2010

Qarth.

I can live with this. He* sure as poo poo mishandled sensitive documents and while I'd like to see an augmentation of time served based on the really bad conditions, the really important thing is that for now we still don't have espionage and mini-treason charges hanging over document leaks to the press. Because that would have been very, VERY bad precedent.

Edit: oh, he did get extra time served? That's nice.

Republicans
Oct 14, 2003

- More money for us

- Fuck you


President Kucinich posted:

Hey buddy, I made that joke a long time ago. Get your own material.

If he gets sentenced to more time than he's credited for serving Obama could probably get away with commuting it.

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010
LIKES: GUMMI BEARS

DISLIKES: JEWS, BLACKS, GAYS, HISPANICS, GYPSIES, ABORIGINES


Republicans posted:

If he gets sentenced to more time than he's credited for serving Obama could probably get away with commuting it.

There's no way Manning is getting off with a slap on the wrist, not after all this. I'll be shocked if he spends less than five more years in prison, in addition to what he's already served. As for the suggestion of a commutation or pardon, there's absolutely nothing at all to indicate that Obama would even be interested in doing so. This administration isn't exactly known for being kind to unauthorized leakers. And even if he wanted to, there's no way Congress could keep silent if Obama intervened; they may be split on a lot of things, but I've seen plenty of congressmen calling Manning a traitor and not a single one speaking out in support of him. The only Congressional reaction that wasn't immediate demonization was a move by one senator to name July 30th National Whistleblower Day.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

It is always about people.


So what is the current mental state of Bradley Manning? What is current ability to function in normal society?

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

Trophy-ko says:
~death to capitalism~
;3


Ardennes posted:

So what is the current mental state of Bradley Manning? What is current ability to function in normal society?

Well I don't know about his mental state but having 19 federal felonies against him is probably going to keep him from ever getting real work again once he gets out of prison.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

It is always about people.


Install Windows posted:

Well I don't know about his mental state but having 19 federal felonies against him is probably going to keep him from ever getting real work again once he gets out of prison.

Granted, it sounded like there was a very good chance he would never work again even before the verdict came down.

platedlizard
Aug 31, 2012

I like plates and lizards.


Install Windows posted:

Well I don't know about his mental state but having 19 federal felonies against him is probably going to keep him from ever getting real work again once he gets out of prison.

He'll be lucky if difficulty finding work is his main problem any time soon.

Lima
Jun 17, 2012



Install Windows posted:

Well I don't know about his mental state but having 19 federal felonies against him is probably going to keep him from ever getting real work again once he gets out of prison.

I hear Wikileaks got a few open positions

Cubone
May 26, 2011

Because it never leaves its bedroom, no one has ever seen this poster's real face.

Ardennes posted:

Granted, it sounded like there was a very good chance he would never work again even before the verdict came down.

Wouldn't he just write some books and become a talking head for cable news or something?

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

It is always about people.


Cubone posted:

Wouldn't he just write some books and become a talking head for cable news or something?

My point is that solitary confinement and the abuse he received might have a permanent effect on him, and his ability to function in "open society."

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meristem
Oct 2, 2010
I HAVE THE ETIQUETTE OF STIFF AND THE PERSONALITY OF A GIANT CUNT.

Ardennes posted:

My point is that solitary confinement and the abuse he received might have a permanent effect on him, and his ability to function.

Yes, brains degenerate in solitary, especially without stimulation. That's why it's considered torture.

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