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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GPGQoR6f6w In the year 2011, the Mayan's prediction of the end of the world came true. But rather than the world ending, the world changed--orcs, dwarves, elves, and trolls returned to the world as magic came creeping back. The Native Americans were among the first to use the new power of magic, using powerful blood magic to summon volcanoes under the cities of their foes and reclaim most of North America. The next several decades of warfare, plague, and hate radically changed the face of the world as power slipped from the hands of the governments and people and into the iron grip of enormous megacorporations and strange, immortal beings. Now it is 2075. The world has segmented, with most being Corporate Citizens, members of a corporation with extraterritoriality rights rivaling that of first world nations, leading lives of comfort and safety as long as their loyalty is never in question. Others fall between the cracks, lacking a System Identification Number, becoming the SINless citizens with few rights and no expectations of protection from the private security forces that have replaced the police. While the elves and orcs can probably expect to walk down the street without being beaten to death, other groups like the sasquatches and the ghouls struggle to integrate in a society that hunts them like monsters. And magical beasts stalk the streets at night and feed on the unwary and unfortunate. With corporations, governments, private interests, metahuman nationalists, and stranger groups all find themselves in an endless gridlock, unable to act directly against one another without setting off a war that would destroy the planet, only one group can be relied on to get things done. Shadowrunners are professional criminals, wearing suits or leather jackets or bright pink PVC, who have the skills, magical talents, cutting edge equipment, or raw moxie to do things mere humans can not. Be they hackers cracking systems and compromising security systems on the fly, riggers commanding teams of deadly drones, magicians or shamans slinging spells and summoning spirits, adepts turning their natural body into the perfect weapon, street samurai who use the latest technology to become the ultimate weapon, or anyone else with the skills to get the job done, a Shadowrunner lives a life of danger. He chooses his job, he decides if the price is too high, and he enjoys the tremendous wealth--until the day he gets betrayed, and he gets two to the back of the head. Watch your back! Shoot straight. Conseve ammo. And never deal with a dragon. Quickstart rules! Shadowrun recently released the fifth edition! Let's talk about it here. The big changes: The Priority System It's baaaack! No more point-buy, except for the little bit of point buy at the end. Instead, divide your A, B, C, D, and E priorities between Stats, Skills, Moneys, Race, and Being Magic. Now, every character doesn't have 200 BP in attributes and 50 BP in resources! Instead every character looks sadly between their attributes and all the sweet ware they want, because you can't have both. Edge, Magic, and Resonance are all tied to your race priority pick, which basically means no troll technomancers. Trolls belong in the kitchen, punching me some goddamn dinner. Armor Your base armor is uncapped now. You can wear two different suits of armor, but they don't stack at all. Armor accessories (helmets, shields, kneepads) are limited by strength. It is relatively simple to play an orc with body + armor in the low 40s. Everyone else wears armored jackets exclusively for inexpensive armor 12. Weapons Everything does way more damage now. Armor up in all this new armor you get. You can't get away with wearing a Hawaiian shirt in combat any more. Limits Based on your stats, now you have three limits which restrict the number of successes you can get on an check. Your social limit is partially based on your essence, which means your essence matters again, and if that bothers you there's more 'ware you can get to raise your limits. Maybe this will reward generalization and punish overspecialization. Maybe it will screw everyone who didn't go attributes A to maximize their limits. Honestly we need to see how this unfolds at the table first. Mystic Adepts Mystic adepts can do anything magicians can do, better and cheaper, except project into the astral plane. And no one does that now that you can't get good peyote. They are due for a good nerfing, and there's a promise that it'll be addressed in upcoming errata, but we got through all of 4th edition without them ever deciding if an agility 9 cyberarm was good enough for firearms or swordfighting, so don't hold your breath. Cyberdecks and Rigging Command Consoles Consumer electronics can no longer hack the gibson, and you need a stupidly expensive neon keyboard again. Piloting drones is a bit more of an investment now, but not an onerous one. Commlinks have gone back to being glorified iPhones. Used 'ware Starting characters can (and probably will) be filled to the brim with shoddy second hand bones they bought from a dude off of second street. It's cool, these bones only had one previous owner, a little old lady who took them to church once a week. Just, you know. Try not to let a cop see the bar code on them ribs. No reason. IRC Over on synirc, there's a channel called #shadowrun! It's infested with goons.  Let's try to leave the previous edition in the previous thread.
Somebody fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 02:06
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Hard to say! The fact the copyediting on the new version is dog garbage doesn't help, but that was true of 4e before the re-release. Certainly everyone's arguing about the differences, but we've yet to see how it shakes out. THe fact they've started a public play league should promote the new edition. Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 02:37
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So tell us how Limits has been working out for you.
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Aug 3, 2013 02:50
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After initiating several times technomancer riggers are pretty good. Before initiating at all I'm pretty sure they're literally incapable of rigging.
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Aug 4, 2013 04:29
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They can initiate (well, submerge) three times, each time getting a rank in a fake Vehicle Control Rig. So a thrice initiated technomancer has a virtual 200,000 nuyen piece of availability 15 ware. Also the rig would cost 3 essence. So once they've initiated three times, they're probably a better hacker/rigger than any traditional hacker/rigger build. Plus, because a technomancer has nothing much to spend the money on, they could have a small fleet of drones. And because they don't have a Rigger Control Console or a Deck, replacing slash reinforcing their drone army. But because you can't start submerged (right?) a starting technomancer can't be a rigger at all.
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Aug 4, 2013 08:18
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Kai Tave posted:Currently the shopping complex is on fire, a panicked mob of proud firearm owners have had a brutal shootout with panicking security forces and there are probably at least a dozen fatalities, the data-hub is filling up with dangerous hyperfreon gas after a tased security nerd collided with some OSHA non-compliant coolant ducts, we have a rescued sasquatch in tow after freeing it from a live-fire weapons testing range where we liberated a prototype assault rifle and a stock of vicious corrosive chemical rounds, and we have two HRT teams inbound by helicopter, one of which is likely to be eaten by the devil rats we released from the testing range's cages before gluing door shut behind us. I don't know how you think we'll ever act as a team while you keep downplaying my casualty count. A dozen!? I've killed at least three times that many people already. Hell, there's ten dead guards, plus all the shoppers they killed, plus everyone hurt in the stampede away from everyone that got set on fire.
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Aug 4, 2013 18:48
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Rockopolis posted:I thought SK was basically, boring, but crazy powerful. Not everyone needs a shtick. SK does have a schtick, and it's being the biggest griefy fucks in setting. See, Renraku will respond with disproportionate force because it suits their reputation as terrifying samurai killers, but SK will respond disproportionately because they're super pissed that you crossed them. Another problem: No corporation has more infighting that the Germans do. So any run against a SK facility is actually pretty likely to be just one branch manager trying to make a second look bad--which means that they KNOW you were the one that torched that lab. The fact they told you to, the fact they paid you to, doesn't matter. You crossed SK! Now you're on their poo poo list. Fortunately they've already got an in with you, which is that they have a Johnson you do jobs for. So now you have a new job, to eliminate a target (which they warn ahead of time) or to kill a paracritter (which is immune to bullets) or to steal a prototype (which they've packed with explosives). They'll keep sending you out on runs they think are too hard for you, over and over, until you die. They'll send you on runs up against other groups they want dead. They'll send three teams against the same target and only pay the one that gets the kill. And so their enemies inevitably die off without SK having to send out a kill team or risk their own assets. Also God forbid you actually get on Lofwyr's personal poo poo list, which is enormous because he constantly hires Shadowrunners to rid him of troublesome subordinates and then decides he needs to avenge their deaths. He'll find out who you fence your paydata to, steal a list of his friends and relatives, slap new letterhead on top so it looks like a list of, say, Azzie spies working in Seattle, and then plant that poo poo somewhere you'll find it on your next run. Bam, you find a list of spies. Whoah, time to sell that sweet rear end paydata! Suddenly some shadow broker has a two bit thief with a list of everyone he loves, asking for money for it. One hail of gunfire later, and another enemy of the great dragon disappears. What a box of cocks.
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Aug 5, 2013 18:05
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The gigantic megacorporations that seek to consume the world in pursuit of obscene profits are not the good guys.
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Aug 5, 2013 18:49
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Ludicrously high magic + Edge, or ludicrously high resonance + edge, of course. Edge is seriously the poo poo.
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Aug 6, 2013 01:13
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Valatar posted:There are plenty of nice people in Shadowrun. It's just that shadowrunners will rarely encounter them in any meaningful manner, given that shadowrunners are criminal mercenaries who are usually neck deep in the games of intrigue of vile megacorporations. But there are lots of charities and activist groups who are trying to help humanity and the world as a whole sprinkled around in the setting material. It's entirely plausible for a GM to have the players approached by a local awakened preacher whose magic healing clinic for orphans is getting leaned on by some gang and needs help driving them away. The trick is that most players aren't looking so much for street-level games and shootouts in the local stuffer shack, they want to be doing Mission Impossible poo poo in the arcology next door. There are some good guy gunslinging organizations, too, groups that solve problems and help people and explode chumps. The Atlantean Foundation, fer example, is the world's largest producer of non-simsense electronic entertainment (movies and radio and television and such) and also full of super powerful good guy wizards. The Draco foundation uses the enormous funds left to it by president Dunklezhan to investigate all these stupid magical artifacts that are reshaping the world. Clans of technomancers (then called Otaku) were the only group besides Deus to have any real influence during Crash 2.0. Two Owls (?) and a bunch of his free spirit buddies are the only people seriously working to actually clean Chicago up, as opposed to simply killing the bugs and declaring it good enough. So there are plenty of good guys running about. The eight corporations who care the most about money and the least about things besides money are none of them.
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Aug 6, 2013 08:32
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Laphroaig posted:Edit: Same info. In Chicago? Not very. But you do get pockets of FABIII, and wandering around with a permanent spell in that setting will mean catching FABIII, which means choosing between killing the spell and eventually losing all of his magic.
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Aug 7, 2013 22:49
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Bigass Moth posted:Life sucks for anyone inside the CZ but since Bug City was nearly 20 years ago I think most people there probably chose to be by this point. Well, if you lived in a squat for fifteen years in Chicago (say, because you were trapped behind the wall, and then later couldn't move out because you had no money after selling everything you owned for food and bullets) that building legally became yours, so a lot of survivors became landowners after spending a decade and a half holding their turf against insects, psychos, blackberry cats, arsonists, and gangsters. And if you've spent fifteen years holding your ground and now you own a (rundown) ten story apartment building, I would imagine you'd feel like you'd put down roots. I believe the core plotline of the Shadowrun Missions adventures is the fact the government has walked that decision back, saying that corporations can have any of that land back that they want, because gently caress you dystopia.
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Aug 9, 2013 15:40
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Martello posted:Combat was fine in 4E in my opinion, guess I'd have to actually play out a combat sequence in 5 to see if it works better. Reduction of spell power is good, character creation is not easier because the priority system is so restrictive. That's obviously a matter of opinion, some people find it easier to just follow the template. For me, I want absolute freedom to build my character the way I want without any artificial restrictions. I don't like minmaxing but if your players want to minmax then they probably suck anyway. Realtalk: Did you always build a character with 200 BP in attributes, and every non-awakened character with 50 BP in resources? The remaining 150 BP spread between edge, skills, and advantages? That's following a template, but the same one every time.
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Aug 10, 2013 01:31
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children overboard posted:Okay, looking for players for a 5e PbP over here: [Shadowrun 5] Red Sprawl This guy knows what he's doing.
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Aug 10, 2013 11:59
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Forums Terrorist posted:If it already exists maybe it should be in the OP then. Fine, fine.
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Aug 11, 2013 04:09
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Man, don't make people specialize in each part of their body. Biting someone is an unarmed attack, how hard is that. vvvvvv: Good, good! Sorry for doubting you. You may retain your RPG card. Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Aug 14, 2013 |
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Aug 14, 2013 03:59
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WarLocke posted:e: And they got rid of smartgun palm-pads? If you don't want to run it wireless you're expected to have a datajack and plug the gun into it (in the case of an implanted smartgun system)? Everything is wireless these days--a smartlink without an active internet connection isn't better than a laser sight, and a smartlink with an active internet connection but no wireless is basically you plugging your gun into a payphone. I mean, I guess you could...
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Aug 18, 2013 05:43
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WarLocke posted:Right, they removed the palm pads to 'force' you to make it wireless, when there's no real reason why something like a smartlink would need to be wireless in the first place. Alright, real answer: State of the Art Progression means the bonuses you used to get from Smartlinks aren't as big, and if you're using tech from 2nd edition instead of the new stuff you're only going to get a +1 bonus to your die pool. You can run a smartlink through some obsolete piece of crap palm link, but you won't get the +2 bonus from being able to rapidly access dozens of gun registries, psychological predictive programs, government databases of floorplans, and weather humidity updates, process all of that on a bunch of computers too powerful to fit on your person, and then instantly upload that information to your gun in the hundredth of a second before you fire. You can use a smartlink without all of that if you want, but then it's not as good. So there's a trade-off. This is in response to 4E (which you missed) where they tried to give hackers something to do in a firefight, hack the guns of the other side. But there was no reason to ever have wireless on on a gun (because that's dumb) so no one ever did. Now there IS a reason to have the wireless on, so people will and now hackers can hack and protect their team from other hackers instead of what they used to do--nothing. Think of it as incentivizing hackers to come along in combat, instead of hiding in the van. Your gun bunny is just as killy, but now the team poindexter has something to do. Or you can give up a single die from your 17 die pool and live off the grid, man, you don't trust the system, which is also cool. quote:Also what the gently caress is up with these cyberlimb rules? Jesus, just make it match your normal attributes, and if you want a single-limb boost for some weird reason you pay extra for it, done. gently caress, amen. But the 'weird reason' is to put agility 9 on a single arm and use that to shoot people, which no one can figure out if it's working as intended but it's certainly how it's used. e: You could also put a datajack in your hand, I guess? Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 06:43
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WarLocke posted:I gotta disagree here. Wireless on a gun is loving dumb, end of story. There is no reason for a wireless gun, ever. So in order to get people to leave their guns' wifi on (in order to 'give deckers something to do' in combat), they decided 'hey, you can leave wifi on and your gun will be just as good as it used to be, Stoppin' ya right there. It's not as good as it used to be, it's way better. A smartlink in offline mode is just as good as a smartlink from twenty years ago. A smartlink in online mode ALSO aggregates more information and procession power than any single device could possibly handle, then disseminates this information to the user in some easy-to-use-format that's compatable with their commlink, which is futuretech if I've ever heard it. It dosn't give as many dice, but we're not even playing the same system so who cares.
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Aug 18, 2013 07:07
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WarLocke posted:I still don't see how a smartlink (if we're going to use this as an example) needs a constant Matrix connection to do things like measure angle of the barrel, bullet drop/trajectory, etc. I mean yeah, that's some calculation, but it's assumed to be included in the smartlink itself (or headware memory, except I think I read that in newer additions stuff is just assumed to have as much memory as it needs). That's what it does in offline mode. In online mode, it also sends photographs of the victim's faces to facial recognition databases, aggregates footage of them from security cameras across the nation, makes predictions based on how they've moved in the past, and adjusts the firing angle by a degree and half in anticipation of how it thinks they're moving and are likely to move in the future. It sends information about the temperature of the air around the gun to MITM servers where experimental programs use the structure of the room, position of air vents, and the shape and color of the furniture (shape and color of parts of furniture not visible retrieved from IKEA catalog) to predict the air temperature, breeze direction, and humidity of every cubic centimeter of the room and the effect this will have on the bullet's path. It reads your skin temperature and blood rate to compare against a history of previous similar shots you've fired to guess how you're going to handle the gun during the shot, making small, corrective electric currents course through the grip to help keep your palm steady. It compares the light sources in the room to the visible image, then feeds all that through a 3d modeling system to look for inconsistencies caused by dust, smoke, or heat mirage effects that may change the shot, and changes the internal view to better reflect the actual situation you're firing into. It does every little thing anyone ever thought might be useful to help aim, simultaneously and instantly, because it can call on machines, systems, and databases around the world. None of them are big, but collectively they help a tiny little bit. What's wrong with that? That's the future, man. It's super connected!
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Aug 18, 2013 07:24
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dirtycajun posted:The plan is to quicken. You eventually grab assensing adept foci and then one or two ranks in assensing so wards don't catch you. Dual natured critters suck for everyone. Hopefully you can out run them. You can't avoid wards forever, especially if you're playing Missions with the rest of the Philly crew. Just this monday we got to choose between "go through three force ten wards" and "get killed by dozens of mooks hurling grenades"
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Aug 21, 2013 16:09
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Laphroaig posted:Anyway all of this talk about Alchemy is missing out on the real problem of SR5E: What the gently caress is up with grenades, jesus loving christ. You think they're bad so far, I haven't even started nailing NPCs with pepper punch gas grenades.
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Aug 23, 2013 01:36
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ProfessorCirno posted:Right now between the two "fighty" style choices, adept is built more to just plain not be hit at all, and sammies are sorta "tanks." Don't get me wrong, nobody wants to be shot. But Adepts are just plain Better at it. They can much more easily have Improved Reflexes 3 right out of chargen, and Combat Sense can let them match your actually skill point for point, which means you're rolling stat+skill+modifier, while they're rolling stat+stat+skill to dodge even before taking defense actions into account. Sammies, on the other hand, have cyberlimb armor, bone density for soaking, palalteltletleatlaetletl factories to flat out reduce damage taken, and the almighty PAIN EDITOR that lets them all but ignore the fact that you're hitting them in the first place (and it eliminates stun damage, like, as a thing for them). Let's steal something from Filthy Cajun, then. pre:Orc Street Sam (Armored Machine) Priorities: Resources A Metatype B Abilities C Skills D Magic E Abilities: Body 10 (12) Agility 1 (6 for things that need the average,3 for leg only checks, 9 for arm only checks, -1 for armor if using shield) Reaction 5 (7, -1 for armor if using shield) Strength 3 (5, 4 for legs only) Willpower 3 Intuition 5 Logic 1 Charisma 1 Edge 5 Essence 0.2 Magic - Qualities: Exceptional Attribute (Body) 14 Toughness 9 Resources 10 Negative Qualities -8 Skills: Automatics (Assault Rifles) 6 Perception (Urban) 6 Sneaking(Urban) 6 Heavy Weapons 1 Gear (Augmentations): Aluminium Bonelacing Alphaware Cyberarms x2 +Agility (3), +Strength (2), agility enhancement (3), armor (2) Alphaware Cyber Legs x2 +Armor increase (2), +strength (1) Alphaware Dermal Plates (1) Synaptic Boosters (2) Smartlink Total Nuyen: 435,200 Gear (Armor): Armored Jacket +Thermal Dampening (6), Chemical Protection (6) Helmet +Vision Enhancement (3), thermographic vision, flare compensation Ballistic Shield Total Nuyen 9,050 Gear (Commlink): Renraku Sensei Total Nuyen 1,000 Gear (Audio): Earbuds (3) +Audio Enhancement (3) Total Nuyen 1,650 Gear (Guns): AK-97 +internal smartgun, gyromount, gas vent (3) Total Nuyen 3,300 Gear (ID): Fake Sin (4) Fake license (4) x8 Total Nuyen 16,400 Gear (Ammo): APDS x5 Stick-n-Shock x5 Regular Ammo x5 Total Nuyen 1,100 Low Lifestyle x1 month Total Nuyen 2,000 Starting Nuyen: 300+(3d6+60) Still needs: 12 points of language and knowledge skills, native language, contacts, negative qualities
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Aug 23, 2013 02:08
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Overspecialized characters are a real trap option, though--I firmly believe that if you can't handle at least two different situations, you're no good. Fortunately it's not hard--most combat monsters can have stealth and acrobatics layered on top at a minimal cost, for example, and some gear options are utile without skills--but it happens. Look at Tobi in our missions game. He can only talk, (Not great at that, mind you, but that's a roleplay issue) and when combat rolls around he's not doing anything. And then we have to make a daring escape and he's not great at that. Later we're scouting out a building and he's poo poo there too. Then we need to sneak up on something and again, we've gotta leave him behind, because he can't sneak and even if he could he wouldn't be an asset once he got there undetected. But the player's paralyzed by his view of the character (a talker) and can't think of anything else for his character to do. And what happened last session? He didn't do poo poo, except for when we needed him to roll a negotiate roll and boom, no net hits no increase in pay. One bad roll and he went from nearly useless to completely useless. That's not great!
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Aug 23, 2013 20:37
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PierreTheMime posted:While I agree with some of this, are you implying that character flaws should not impact other characters? At what point should a players poor choices start causing problems? Having a charisma of 3 and a social skill of 3 is not useful in Shadowrun. There's no need to punish people for not spending the points raising that stat and that skill to useless levels.
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Aug 23, 2013 20:39
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OB_Juan posted:In home games, it's a little different. The characters end up dealing with the outcomes of their actions on a longer term. You can't always get the work your team is best at. Sometimes you just kinda end up on a murderous gameshow hosted by an insane elf desperate to get back into his corp. Nobody wants to work with the guy with 1 in Logic, because he's a loving dumbass that can't remember the drat plan. Or the guy with 1 Charisma who's just in-loving-capable of talking to people without starting a fight or creeping them out. Logic 3 and Charisma 3 are not meaningfully better than Logic 1 and Charisma 1. Why do people have to buy them up?
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Aug 23, 2013 20:43
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PierreTheMime posted:I don't agree. So you should have either 12+ dice to throw or none? I don't know about you, but Etiquette and other social skills come up a lot and being unable to properly act professional, negotiate, or act in front of NPCs can be a source of major problems. Well, you can tell me to lower my agility by 4 to raise those two stats by three, which gives an additional two thirds of a success on any logic or charmisma checks. That's still terrible, and you don't need to make checks for everyday activity. This means being polite, attending parties, engaging in normal business exchanges. You can share a drink with someone without punching them without making a roll, there's no need to say every charisma 1 character is a psycho. A logic 1 character can remember plans, he can read, he can pay his bills (maybe counting on his fingers) he can load his weapons and dress himself. You can't talk your way into a fancy dress party or pass yourself off as a socialite or convince a businessman to pay a tremendous sum of money, but honestly not every character needs to be able to do that. A logic 1 character won't be terribly interested in the world around him or be hacking the gibson, but again, not every character needs to do that. Neither a Charisma 1 or Charisma 3 character will be able to convince a Mr. Johnson (who WILL have charisma skills, because he is management) to raise his offering price, or talk his way past a guard with even basic training, or disguise himself as a valet. There is no gain in utility. So we've gone from Super Agile (which is incredibly useful to everything I want my character to do) to clumsy gently caress, and in exchange I've gotten.... nothing. Or Verisimilitude. And gently caress Verisimilitude. So yeah, 12+ or nothing, if you're going to say the attributes reflect the character, then you've got to agknowledge someone with a charisma of 3 is not meaningfully more charismatic than someone with a charisma of 1, and if they don't then who gives a poo poo what the attributes are. This is the system we're playing, not some theoretical system where the difference between minimum playable and human average matters.
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Aug 23, 2013 20:56
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BenRGamer posted:So, I found out one of the big reasons characters I've made haven't been chosen for the play by post games--they're terrible. Can someone help me build a character that doesn't suck to submit to the next Shadowrun game that opens up? Whatcha tryin' to make?
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Aug 23, 2013 21:11
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BenRGamer posted:How about a Technomancer? Would one of those not suck? Nope. (Well, there are some weird tricks you can do with them but if you're strugging to get started I wouldn't go there.) Do you want the Illusionist, the Sam, or the Rigger?
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Aug 23, 2013 21:18
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BenRGamer posted:fight directly with drone backup. That ain't gonna work without a dedicated security decker, because while you're engaged in glorious combat, their tech guy is putting markers all over everything and is about to spoof a command to shoot you with your own drones. Unless you're running security for your drones (which means being in the matrix) drones are very, very vulnerable. If you want to just be a rigger and your own security decker, that's not even super hard. Max logic, consider taking 'even higher logic' and slap that +2 logic thingamie on top. Grab some ranks in Pilot (favored drone type) and then grab and equip, oh, six drones, buy a perception autosoft, a gunnery autosoft for each type of gun you use, and at least one rotodrone with a grenade launcher. Take a moderate deck and dump firewall (your RCC provides this) and stealth, because you won't be infiltrating other's computers. Grab only combat programs---you can pick up others once you're in play and get some money, so your character has room to grow quickly, which is nice. Don't forget to put smartlinks on everything and to buy a rigger command console, and the rest of the build's your own.
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Aug 23, 2013 21:50
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Be sure to take Gunner skill. Also a flydrone or three, they're fun.
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Aug 23, 2013 21:52
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dirtycajun posted:
You've still gotta keep an eye on 'em, which means being in the matrix and not punching baddies.
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Aug 23, 2013 21:55
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ProfessorCirno posted:If you have Charisma 1 and no social dice you are literally incapable of talking coherently. If you have Logic 3 and no tech skill dice, you are literally incapable of using electronics. What kind of character is that? Don't make up rules.
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Aug 24, 2013 01:26
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ProfessorCirno posted:If you have a stat at 1, your default dice is 0. That's not a made up rule. If you have Charisma 1 then any time you try to use a social skill you fail before you even begin. You literally cannot succeed at a social skill. Ever. You are physically incapable of succeeding in any social skill. You've conflated, "Can't succeed at a challenging check," with, "Literally unable to communicate," which is inaccurate and unsupported by the actual rules of the actual game which we are supposedly discussing. You are doing this because you can't actually come up with a situation where a player desperately, badly needs to get exactly one success on a logic or charisma check, because situations where you need successes like that have higher thresholds--you need to actually beat someone at a charisma check, for example, which means unless you're engaging in high-stakes negotiation with an unattended vending machine I don't hold much for your chances. Instead you're coming up with excuses to punish a player for not building their character poorly, which is adversarial GMing at its finest. Logic 1 isn't brain-damaged, Charisma 1 isn't compulsive Tourettes, and the rules don't suggest otherwise anywhere. And even if you could come up with a situation where you badly need that single hit, well, that's what edge is for, unexpected little surprises. Everyone should get lots of edge, edge is sweet. It's certainly better than lowering a useful stat to raise another from completely useless to still completely useless. BenRGamer posted:To contribute to the present conversation, though, what does it mean when someone has both charisma 1 and Uncouth? That's the plan so far with this guy. I even also picked Bad Rep because of it, 'He's F@$%in Crazy!' That's much closer to a furious semi-coherent monster. Honestly Uncouth is a pretty poo poo disadvantage, because no one who throws points into Charisma is going to take it and no one who doesn't is meaningfully affected by it. Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 01:44
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ProfessorCirno posted:You're right. Being phyically incapable of succeeding in etiquette totally means your character is well balanced and able to hold conversations with what the gently caress am I saying? Neither. It is an asset you haven't bought and points you haven't spent. Your attributes aren't weaknesses, they're tools, and if you have a 1 in a score the 'weakness' is that you can't use that attribute meaningfully. If you aren't interested in that attribute, don't take it.
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Aug 24, 2013 01:48
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ProfessorCirno posted:Just say: free points or a weakness? Still neither.
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Aug 24, 2013 01:51
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Brannock posted:So the default should be 1? The average metahuman has 1 in every stat? The default is 1, and the 'average' metahuman isn't detailed anywhere. The average value for equipment on a rating from 1 to 6 is 2, though.
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Aug 24, 2013 02:21
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If only those mooks were designed to accurately reflect an individual, instead of let's see "...interchangeable... the rules steamline how the gamemaster handles them in various situations" so please stop citing god-drat Verisimilitude.ProfessorCirno posted:In SR4 I believe the accepted average was +3 to your metatype starting score. You are really good at pulling these facts without any citation. By these standards a friggin' 400 BP runner (already head and shoulders above pretty much everyone) wouldn't be able to reach the staggering realm of, 'average.'
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Aug 24, 2013 02:43
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ProfessorCirno posted:First off what are you even trying to say. You can't just shout "VERISIMILITUDE" and cross your arms smugly. YOu have to make an actual argument. My actual argument is that page 44 states Shadowrun 5E posted:Your Shadowrun character does all the things a normal person does, along with the occasional grand theft, espionage mission, or hit job. Most of these things—common tasks like eating, sleeping, and crossing an empty street—are done automatically and are kept in the background of the game. When you need to do something difficult or extraordinary, or when you need to avoid someone who has got you in their crosshairs, you have to roll the dice to determine a result. and nowhere in the book does it state that a 1 in a stat is somehow handicapped. You keep making things up. Go find me a page source that claims that charisma 1 is literally incapable of talking, or that logic 1 means you are severely mentally deficient. I know the rules don't say what you wish they did. But that's life, man. ProfessorCirno posted:Thirdly, free points or a weakness? You never answered. I answered twice, you just ignored both times because the answer didn't fit with what you wanted it to be. Just like the rules!
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Aug 24, 2013 04:06
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ProfessorCirno posted:Logic 1 isn't "8 Wisdom." It's 3. It is the lowest possible score. 3 isn't possible in 4e. Now you're making up rules in completely different systems. Please stop!
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Aug 24, 2013 05:39
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