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The problem I had with the Kojima art style is that they were all pale as hell as if they had no blood flow going to their face what so ever. Even people that had no connection to vampires were super pale and it was off putting. But I am a weird person because I preferred Castlevania 64, Lords of Shadow, Circle of the Moon, and Portrait of Ruin, as well as Curse of Darkness. All of them are some of least liked in the series from the fans. SotN was ok, but I am at the point in my life where I am sick of it.
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Aug 4, 2013 22:53
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blackguy32 posted:The problem I had with the Kojima art style is that they were all pale as hell as if they had no blood flow going to their face what so ever. Even people that had no connection to vampires were super pale and it was off putting. Well none of the games you've mentioned are particularly bad compared to other games in their genre when they came out. My only real problem with Curse of Darkness as an example is HUGE size of the levels, I feel like you spend more time running in a straight line than you do doing stuff. The games you have listed, their only real "crime" in the eyes of the fans is not being Symphony of the Night. I never understood the hate Circle of the Moon especially gets. I know it's extremely dark on the vanilla GBA but it's actually my favorite of the handheld Castlevania games. The game is hard, has lots of movement options, some branching paths, the art is more western this time but not super muscled out or anything like that, lots of original sprites and bosses, a really cool Dracula battle at the end, good mix of GOOD new music and remixed music, everything comes together in it. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 23:16
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Neo Rasa posted:Well none of the games you've mentioned are particularly bad compared to other games in their genre when they came out. My only real problem with Curse of Darkness as an example is HUGE size of the levels, I feel like you spend more time running in a straight line than you do doing stuff. The games you have listed, their only real "crime" in the eyes of the fans is not being Symphony of the Night. I've always been a Circle sympathizer, KCEK really deserved a second chance at making a Castlevania game after that (although they were merged with KCET and made Portrait of Ruin, I think). I bought the GBA for it and loved it, sure it was hard to play sometimes as I had to literally play it under my reading lamp, but it was a great experience that felt like a really good bridge between old Castlevania and SoTN. What people tend to forget is that it was pretty much a launch game on a new system that came after the GB/GBC era of games, not that I don't love my fair share of GameBoy games, but nothing like CoTM could have been achieved on them. It was pretty groundbreaking for it's time and I've always been a little bitter for the hate it gets, I'm guessing because most people played it after Harmony/Aria when it's really a very different game made by an entirely different team. Also, it gets a big thumbs up for using Castlevania IV music, some of the best music in the entire series.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:48
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And some Bloodlines music too! The best thing about it for me, the most brilliant thing about the level design, is that the platforms and ledges are all placed in such a way that you can navigate each area more efficiently as you learn to run/double jump/wall jump/etc. It was a huge letdown playing it first and then playing HoD after where many of the areas are so tight that you have to just walk normally through them every time no matter how powerful you get. For a long time Circle of the Moon was, to me, the reason to recommend a GBA to anyone.
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Aug 5, 2013 00:01
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Look, just give me back leather skirt Simon and throw him in a Not SotN, is that too much to ask Konami? Lords of Shadow was neat but I need my fix, man. e: Circle of the Moon was fun as hell, I loved the card system. Sure, most of them were redundant or useless, but those handful that weren't really mixed things up. The art style was also pretty nice even though 80% of the enemies were palette swaps, and the soundtrack was great. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 00:16
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I feel like I am duty bound to post that it is absolutely criminal that after Lords of Shadow became a thing they dumped Igarashi onto Otomedius Excellent. I mean, I like just about every drat game in the series for different reasons, and it seems like an absolute shame that he got dumped on Kinect and Pedobait garbage after making several stellar Castlevania titles, even if people were starting to get a little tired of Metroidvania. I know the man used to work on Gradius but god drat.
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Aug 5, 2013 02:50
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If it makes you feel better he's now a Twitter Lord that seemingly isn't working on anything.
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Aug 5, 2013 02:59
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Phantasium posted:I feel like I am duty bound to post that it is absolutely criminal that after Lords of Shadow became a thing they dumped Igarashi onto Otomedius Excellent. All his 3D games were flops, the 2D games were declining in sales and none of his attempts to bring in new fans seemed to work. I don't doubt that a lot of these problems came down to Konami making unreasonable demands and being unwilling to accommodate him, but even so, he had a good run. What bothers me most about Igarashi's "promotion" is that Harmony of Despair was a fantastic game that should have ushered in the third era of 2D Castlevania, and probably would have if they'd just given him the budget for new sprites, but they didn't and now Castlevania is dead forever.
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Aug 5, 2013 03:27
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Phantasium posted:I feel like I am duty bound to post that it is absolutely criminal that after Lords of Shadow became a thing they dumped Igarashi onto Otomedius Excellent. Oh man, don't even get me started on what they've done to Gradius. There was nothing worse than wondering if they had been working on something only to be greeted with THAT abomination. Is every series left in Japan around now just so that people can jerk off to little girls? It bugs me a lot because as a girl myself it pushes me away from games and basically tells me that I don't really matter as a fan.
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Aug 5, 2013 04:06
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Syfe posted:Oh man, don't even get me started on what they've done to Gradius. They're pretty defeatist about their game industry over there.
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Aug 5, 2013 04:08
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I really don't get the claims of Lords of Shadow being subject to "tiny head huge man" syndrome. Gabriel is a fairly lithe guy. Athletic sure, but you people talk like he's Gears of War guy for gods sake  Anyway, the Castlevania games have always been about shallow characters and vapid plots justified by great visuals, soundtracks, and gameplay. I fail to see how Lords of Shadow is any different in this regard.
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Aug 5, 2013 04:13
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Samurai Sanders posted:On the subject of the Western reviews of Dragon's Crown talking about the bad female designs, a Japanese blog I read had comments like "It's Japan, what are you gonna do". One went as far as to say "Japanese character designs are just made to satisfy lonely virgins and that's the only way it's ever going to be". It's pretty much an epidemic at this point, I can't look for a game without running into it. People honestly make suggestions like Hyper Dimension Neptunia to me when I'm looking for a turned based RPG, what makes them think that's something I'm going to want to play? The box says it all, it's for guys to whip their dicks out to.  I just don't want guys to come blaming girls that Final Fantasy is a dress up your lightning doll game, because I can tell you it isn't girls who want that poo poo.
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Aug 5, 2013 04:14
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Syfe posted:It's pretty much an epidemic at this point, I can't look for a game without running into it. People honestly make suggestions like Hyper Dimension Neptunia to me when I'm looking for a turned based RPG, what makes them think that's something I'm going to want to play? The box says it all, it's for guys to whip their dicks out to. Has anyone ever suggested they did? Not a rhetorical question, I am seriously curious.
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Aug 5, 2013 04:17
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Samurai Sanders posted:On the subject of the Western reviews of Dragon's Crown talking about the bad female designs, a Japanese blog I read had comments like "It's Japan, what are you gonna do". One went as far as to say "Japanese character designs are just made to satisfy lonely virgins and that's the only way it's ever going to be". Anyway I loved the Metroidvania style games and its a shame that they'll probably never do the one for Millennium War. Just one more game, that's all I wanted, then they could have done whatever. 
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Aug 5, 2013 04:17
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The Japanese game biz is flailing. The only thing close to a sure thing they have is the otaku market, so that's what they go for. edit: for "traditional" console games, I mean. Smartphone/browser games are a growth market with huge untapped chunks of the population.
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Aug 5, 2013 04:19
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Captain Oblivious posted:Has anyone ever suggested they did? Not a rhetorical question, I am seriously curious. Well, I remember people suggesting FFX-2 to me all the time (despite the fact that I hate 10 itself) because "hey, it's totally for girls this time, you get these cool things called dress spheres and you get to see them in tons of different cool outfits!" I've also had it suggested to me because apparently the battle system is better, but I'd only accept that suggestion if I liked the first one, I didn't. So I merely infer that somebody out there may blame these sorts of games on girls somewhere, even though just about every game out there right now on both sides of the pond target guys so hard it's painful. I miss more egalitarian days of gaming. vvvvvvvv Yeah I remember catching that bit. What's funny about that is the fact that their big sales pitch for Lightning for XIII was STRONG FEMALE PROTAGONIST and now she's just titty's with animal ears where you can dress her up and run around in a giant sandbox, from what I gather. Well, it still has Tales games? At least if it's anything sexual they're really cheeky about their innuendos? Syfe fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 04:20
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Judging from the interview talking about how important it was that Lightning went up a cup size and her boobs jiggle now, I can tell you for almost certain that that is not the case. Edit: oh yeah, and I read an interview with Shigeru Miyamoto a while ago talking about how he'd like to someday make a game where you're Peach and rescue Mario. You've had your whole career to do that if you wanted to, buddy. You're influential, it would have meant a lot during the formative years of the Japanese game biz. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 04:21
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Syfe posted:Well, I remember people suggesting FFX-2 to me all the time (despite the fact that I hate 10 itself) because "hey, it's totally for girls this time, you get these cool things called dress spheres and you get to see them in tons of different cool outfits!" I've also had it suggested to me because apparently the battle system is better, but I'd only accept that suggestion if I liked the first one, I didn't. I don't think things were ever truly more egalitarian except by happenstance. The attitudes have always been there, it's just a question of opportunity to put them on display. Better graphics means more outlets.
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Aug 5, 2013 04:22
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Syfe posted:Well, it still has Tales games? At least if it's anything sexual they're really cheeky about their innuendos? edit: Well, things are getting way off topic aren't they? Er...oh yeah! I played Harmony of Despair briefly as Charlotte, simply because she has the best dance. I didn't realize that her level up mechanics were the worst thing in the game. Also, where is that old JONATHAN! CHARLOTTE! thread tag? This thread needs that tag. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 04:30
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Has anyone done character specific runs of CVIII like I have? Trevor is fairly simple, no part of the game is particularly hard, Sypha is fun but pretty tough, Grant's also fairly easy, but Alucard is a nightmare. Not being able to attack on stairs, not to mention how weak his normal attack is, makes it just about unbearable. Also, he's the one character who can't beat the game on his own, because to defeat Dracula's second form, you need a weapon capable of piercing, and Alucard's fireballs are among the only attacks in the game that can't go through targets. Also, he has by far the hardest Doppleganger fight. With Sypha, Grant, and Trevor, it's pretty easy once you learn their tricks, but I have yet to find a strategy for Alucard. The bat can come in handy, but it needs hearts and one hit, and you might as well be dead if you're trying to level skip. I'm really divided between Rondo and CVIII as my favorite old-school Castlevania. III is harder, but the limitations of the NES hardware shine through every now and then, and it has some really boring segments where you have to wait until the blocks stack (unless you're Alucard), but the difficulty is just right. Rondo is a little on the easy side to me, but it's a pretty nice looking game with some great music.
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Aug 5, 2013 04:40
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Captain Oblivious posted:I really don't get the claims of Lords of Shadow being subject to "tiny head huge man" syndrome. Gabriel is a fairly lithe guy. Athletic sure, but you people talk like he's Gears of War guy for gods sake  Now, I'm no anatomist, but the human torso is ~2 heads wide. Even at the angle his body is turned here, he's got enough trunk to top with two or three more of those mop-bearing noggins. Just because it hasn't reached the absurdity of Gears of War, doesn't mean that it is not comparable in the slightest. For something going for a degree of photo-realism, there is something disturbing to the tune of uncanny wideness to his person (not that there isn't a precedent for it with characters like Hector). I'm sorry because I find the levels of mutability in the human form "for aesthetics" in games that are daring to say they are any kind of realistic looking to be grotesque. On that note, I really don't think "Well the story sucked BEFORE!" to be a valid excuse for what is honestly one of the worst stories I've experienced - and in the realm of plots in modern gaming, that is no small feat. The original story was straightforward and honestly fairy-tale in its scope: It's the story about a clan who every 100 years must kill Dracula to save the world. Okay, cool, I can suspend my disbelief here. Next: Yeah, I think it is rather self-evident where things went wrong, and yes, the story was absurd no matter how you cut it. It still gives the series a solid 18 years of not making GBS threads its own pants over the new series record of... 0 minutes. It is absurd to point at the shortcomings of the thing this reboot is supposedly delivering us from as a means of excusing the exact same issues, compounded tenfold for being as bad in the first try as it took three Konami branches 17 games to accomplish. Samurai Sanders posted:Also, where is that old JONATHAN! CHARLOTTE! thread tag? This thread needs that tag. Forgive us, daimyo, but it is now "JONATHON", with an O, up there at the top. This thread tag is all we could afford with the leftovers from paying a vowel tax. 
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Aug 5, 2013 05:00
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Syrnn posted:On that note, I really don't think "Well the story sucked BEFORE!" to be a valid excuse for what is honestly one of the worst stories I've experienced - and in the realm of plots in modern gaming, that is no small feat. Sadly I don't think there's much ground we can have any discussion on, because I simply don't care about any of this. Or pay any real attention to the dialogue of any Castlevania game, for that matter. Although I did enjoy Patrick Stewart giving a ludicrously bombastic delivery to every line in the stage intros. I'm here to kill monsters and platform around, nothing more. These games have nothing more to offer. Edit: May I recommend TDI's Lets Play of Dirge of Cerberus if you wish to experience how much worse videogame plots can get? And laugh a lot while you do it. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 05:38
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Sorry, the thread was talk about Castlevania. It'd be a pretty short discussion if we left it absolutely skin-deep. Just because one person doesn't give a hately jizz what the story of a game is doesn't mean that nobody should pay any attention to it whatsoever. That just leads to Metroid: Other M! Ultimately, I want to reiterate that Castlevania did what it did best by having great music, and showcases in spades why it is that 2D is worth keeping around in gaming beyond indie titles that have silhouette portions coupled with platform gimmicks. I'm glad to see that Circle of the Moon is finally earning its keep to many, because it does do a great job of keeping the "feel" of old Castlevania, and certainly the challenge for those so inclined, while at the same time the freedom and exploration that makes Metroidvanias so good. I'm honestly more disappointed though that these games don't get more exposure on things like the shops on the Wii or the (3)DS, because they are rather timeless. If nothing else, smaller digital releases would be a great way to keep the formula alive or introduce new titles, but somehow I can only imagine that the flak that Castlevania Rebirth received outweighs the success that Harmony of Despair was. Time will tell?
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Aug 5, 2013 05:58
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Yeah, Lords of Shadow was the first 3d Castlevania game that I felt was a competent effort. While I think CV 64 was a close second with it's combat and platforming combined, but I think it was marred by some camera issues. The Ps2 3d Castlevanias suffered from some hideous level design, especially Lament of Innocence. Also, the original Castlevania games are not timeless. Even Castlevania Chronicles, a remake of the original, is showing it's age. blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 05:59
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Syrnn posted:Sorry, the thread was talk about Castlevania. It'd be a pretty short discussion if we left it absolutely skin-deep. Just because one person doesn't give a hately jizz what the story of a game is doesn't mean that nobody should pay any attention to it whatsoever. That just leads to Metroid: Other M! Oh, you misunderstand. I'm just saying you and I, only us specifically, don't have much to discuss because the plot is irrelevant to me. I approach Castlevanias in much the same way one would approach a B Movie whereas you do not. It's irreconcilable, that's just the way it goes. As for Other M I'm pretty sure that was a consequence of something else entirely than people not caring about the plot. Quite the opposite, it was a consequence of the creator caring a whole hell of a lot about the plot. Unfortunately he cared about all the wrong things
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Aug 5, 2013 06:04
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Castlevania is really weird because there it feels like there are three disparate but related groups to the fanbase. Group A commits to carefully planned, patient jumps and ducks in their sleep, and they aren't entirely sure where all this drat backtracking and levelling and equipment is coming from but they guess its OK. They wish Castlevania Adventure had been better. Group B really like wandering around other people's houses, and taking other people's stuff, and they just can't work up the poo poo to give about how great the boomerang thing is with all this Crissaegrim up in here. They wish Simon's Quest had been better. Group C, as far as I can tell, REALLY liked God of War. I admit to not knowing much about Group C because I am in Group B. They wish Castlevania 64 had been better.
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Aug 5, 2013 08:02
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Castlevania Adventure is better now, thanks to Rebirth. Haunted Castle will never not be a stinker, though.
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Aug 5, 2013 08:11
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I guess I should have played Simon's Quest. I played 1, then the next one I played was SOTN.
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Aug 5, 2013 08:15
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Neo Rasa posted:I never understood the hate Circle of the Moon especially gets. I'd like to open the floor in the same regard to Harmony of Dissonance. I know why that game gets all its hatred, but even so, I liked it for what it is. Instead of praying for enemy drops in the other games, you found all the stuff you ever needed by exploring the castle itself, and really, that's what Metroidvania should have focused on doing all this time, because to hell with all that farming and praying for drops that seemed to dominate the portable games. Plus, I can't say no to being able to rapid punch enemies to death. I mean drat, I got so much enjoyment from the Simon Boss Rush, and the Vampire Killer remix they threw in for that mode was icing on the cake. Even if the sound quality suffered, the melodies they gave were quite decent for what little they had left of that poor GBA chip. I will always go to bat for that game being a ton of fun, if not a little on the easy side.
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Aug 5, 2013 08:17
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^^^^ You forgot to mention the sweet, sweet interior decorating. Where oh where should should I put that moose head? 
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Aug 5, 2013 08:24
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To be honest I have almost no loving clue about the Castlevania storyline and characters other than Dracula needs to be killed from time to time, and basically no desire to learn. Castlevania is all about the gameplay and the atmosphere, to me. Hearing that Lords of Shadow is a big infodump about the story is a massive turn-off for me. Metroidvania games should be about figuring out what scant info there is about what is going on for yourself, through exploration.
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Aug 5, 2013 08:32
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Samurai Sanders posted:To be honest I have almost no loving clue about the Castlevania storyline and characters other than Dracula needs to be killed from time to time, and basically no desire to learn. Castlevania is all about the gameplay and the atmosphere, to me. Hearing that Lords of Shadow is a big infodump about the story is a massive turn-off for me. Lords of Shadow isn't (and does not aspire to be) a metroidvania, nor does it force you to pay attention to the story. I got through it just fine only picking up the bare basics 
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Aug 5, 2013 08:35
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Captain Oblivious posted:Lords of Shadow isn't (and does not aspire to be) a metroidvania, nor does it force you to pay attention to the story. I got through it just fine only picking up the bare basics Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 08:36
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Circle of the Moon is well loved among classic CV fans. It's my favorite game after SotN. It's just fun to play through, I've finished it on every mode.
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Aug 5, 2013 09:32
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Captain Oblivious posted:Lords of Shadow isn't (and does not aspire to be) a metroidvania, nor does it force you to pay attention to the story. I got through it just fine only picking up the bare basics What is up my fellow Lords of Shadow loving brother?  I really need to play through it again. I liked the variety of the environments it had.
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Aug 5, 2013 15:38
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blackguy32 posted:I liked the variety of the environments it had. This to me was the most impressive part. It really felt like some of the older games in that regard. All of these different and varied environments beautifully rendered, even some of which you spend like 2 minutes looking at before moving onto the next area. I also liked how not every path lead to treasure. Some of them were just dead ends to gently caress with you. I really hope they can improve the combat for Lords of Shadow 2 while keeping these things I liked about 1, because then it would probably be my favorite Castlevania ever.
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Aug 5, 2013 16:16
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I didn't really enjoy LOS, it just felt too God of War for me. It was a nice attempt though. The environments were great but the gameplay was sorely lacking. Also hatred for Circle of the Moon? I thought that was HOD. Like someone said I play CV for the atmosphere and music. HOD's horrible compressed music turned me off and took away the atmosphere immediately and I just didn't like it. I really liked COM because of how huge it felt and the card system was great. The drop rates were pretty low but it's basically comparable to the later games which had souls.
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Aug 5, 2013 17:01
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:This to me was the most impressive part. It really felt like some of the older games in that regard. All of these different and varied environments beautifully rendered, even some of which you spend like 2 minutes looking at before moving onto the next area. I also liked how not every path lead to treasure. Some of them were just dead ends to gently caress with you. I really hope they can improve the combat for Lords of Shadow 2 while keeping these things I liked about 1, because then it would probably be my favorite Castlevania ever. I felt the most impressive part was the visuals. Holy poo poo, that is one nice looking game. I originally thought the ending of the game was stupid, but over time I realized that it is a considerable reboot that has changed almost everything we know about classic Castlevania. Also, if Lords of Shadow was GoW (I felt it was more Lament of Innocence and Rygar myself) then Lords of Shadow 2 seems to be pulled right out of Devil May Cry.
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Aug 5, 2013 17:08
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For anyone whos jonesing for more SOTN, check out Rogue Legacy on Steam (I ctrl+f'd for it on each page, didn't see it). Basically SOTN if it was a roguelike.
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Aug 5, 2013 18:12
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Samurai Sanders posted:I guess I should have played Simon's Quest. I played 1, then the next one I played was SOTN. I didn't play the first Castlevania until maybe a decade after playing Simon's Quest; it was the first CV I owned on the Nintendo so even though people give it a hard time it's one of my favorites. Looking back, I think I was spoiled because I had a physical guide for it AND a VHS "game hint" tape that was basically a 15-minute walkthrough of the whole thing. Without those, the game doesn't really give you a whole lot of feedback outside of some obtuse and poorly translated NPC clues (some of which are flat-out lies). Simon moves slow as dirt and some of the jumping is tricky. But there's a ton of sub-weapons and a night/day cycle where zombies infest the towns and monsters become harder to kill, which was a nice touch in an old game like that. I tried some of the early PS2 Castlevanias and didn't like them at all. They seemed really shallow, I didn't know what the hell was going on, and I don't have a stereo TV so the only way I heard sound was if my character was in the exact middle of the screen. If I drifted off in either direction, it was just music.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:30
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