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Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Opposing Farce posted:

e: Big is probably one of the most awful Sonic characters by weight, but there's something endearing about the fact that he's unapologetically a dumb joke character in a series that all-too-often treats characters who should be dumb jokes like they aren't.

Big unironically owns. Fishing in Sonic Adventure owned.

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RickDaedalus
Aug 2, 2009

Dr Pepper posted:

Big unironically owns. Fishing in Sonic Adventure owned.

Big the Cat owns because he's secretly Duke Nukem.

Wind God Sety
Sep 2, 2011

"I think you really should be in the ocean..."

So that's what I been doing wrong!
Big's story in SA1 justifies itself entirely based on the fact that him climbing ladders so quickly is hilarious.

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty

quote:

It's more like if you wrote a history book and then didn't include WWII because really, that's so played out already. It's supposed to be a chronicling of all he's been through, and even though not every game got a level, there's probably at least one song/piece of art/cameo/easter egg referring to even the more easily forgotten games.

I've only played bits and pieces of the game, so I haven't explored it much. Are there callbacks to the weird games, like the Tails game gear ones, or the master system Flicky game?

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012

Choco1980 posted:

I've only played bits and pieces of the game, so I haven't explored it much. Are there callbacks to the weird games, like the Tails game gear ones, or the master system Flicky game?

Given that Door into Summer was the track in the bonus shenanigans room, yes.

Yes they do callbacks. :allears:

Abitha Denton
Jan 10, 2012
Going back to the discussion of Super Sonic and Dragonball Z, bear in mind this is a series that prominently featured a Death Star with a face and a giant mustache called the Death Egg. The weird homages can be great, but I don't think they ever tied themselves down to one subject.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Wind God Sety posted:

To be fair, most of those characters have only been in Generations after 2006, where the whole point was to celebrate everything Sonic's been through.

They were in the DS version of Colors, and some have shown up in side games, too.

On the topic of Big, I would say he's the poster child of unnecessary Sonic characters. He never has an important role in any of the games he shows up in, and I'd be willing to believe that's the case for this game, too.

Ramos
Jul 3, 2012


Abitha Denton posted:

Going back to the discussion of Super Sonic and Dragonball Z, bear in mind this is a series that prominently featured a Death Star with a face and a giant mustache called the Death Egg. The weird homages can be great, but I don't think they ever tied themselves down to one subject.

The original Sonic also took plenty of cues off of Mickey Mouse in the visual design. To say the least, the guy is very much made off of pop culture.

Dr. Buttass
Aug 12, 2013

AWFUL SOMETHING

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

They were in the DS version of Colors, and some have shown up in side games, too.

On the topic of Big, I would say he's the poster child of unnecessary Sonic characters. He never has an important role in any of the games he shows up in, and I'd be willing to believe that's the case for this game, too.

Mostly. He's used to introduce a new field ability, but after that he has even less plot relevance than the optional characters.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~
At least we can take comfort in the fact that Big has been officially retired, so we're (hopefully) about as likely to see him again as we are to have a game starring Mighty, Ray, and Beak the Dynamite.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Geostomp posted:

At least we can take comfort in the fact that Big has been officially retired, so we're (hopefully) about as likely to see him again as we are to have a game starring Mighty, Ray, and Beak the Dynamite.

He has? He was in Generations as a Trophy

Squallege
Jan 7, 2006

No greater good, no just cause

Grimey Drawer

Geostomp posted:

At least we can take comfort in the fact that Big has been officially retired, so we're (hopefully) about as likely to see him again as we are to have a game starring Mighty, Ray, and Beak the Dynamite.

They finally told him about the rabbits. :smith:

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004

Geostomp posted:

At least we can take comfort in the fact that Big has been officially retired, so we're (hopefully) about as likely to see him again as we are to have a game starring Mighty, Ray, and Beak the Dynamite.

Don't be so sure! We never got any wonky translation with him.

That is to say he's still Big in Japan.

Hamsterlady
Jul 8, 2010

Corpse Party, bitches.
This game's font (specifically, the absurdly wide W and w characters) is really starting to grate on me.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Onmi posted:

He has? He was in Generations as a Trophy

Basically, in 2012, there was confirmation by SEGA that Big the Cat was retired for the foreseeable future due to them being unable to figure out how to put him in more stories.

And while I get rehashing "Froggy, where are you!?" for the 500th time isn't interesting, I'm a little surprised they didn't manage to have him show up at Sonic's birthday party in one of the least story driven games in the series. :v:

Dr. Buttass
Aug 12, 2013

AWFUL SOMETHING
I think Big's main problem is that he's basically a combination of traits other characters have, but he doesn't bring anything new to the table or combine them in an interesting way. If they want anything he has to offer they can just trot out Blaze if they need a cat or someone purple, Knuckles if they want super strength, and Silver if they need someone's whose IQ is below room temperature.

Lizard Wizard posted:

Don't be so sure! We never got any wonky translation with him.

That is to say he's still Big in Japan.

Goddammit.

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS

Dr. Buttass posted:

I think Big's main problem is that he's basically a combination of traits other characters have, but he doesn't bring anything new to the table or combine them in an interesting way. If they want anything he has to offer they can just trot out Blaze if they need a cat or someone purple, Knuckles if they want super strength, and Silver if they need someone's whose IQ is below room temperature.


Goddammit.

But can any of them fish? :colbert:

Dr. Buttass
Aug 12, 2013

AWFUL SOMETHING

Electric Phantasm posted:

But can any of them fish? :colbert:

Silver again. Remember Psychonauts?

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004

Dr. Buttass posted:

Silver again. Remember Psychonauts?

I think we can just sweep Silver under the rug and be better off for it.

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

Lizard Wizard posted:

I think we can just sweep Silver under the rug and be better off for it.

I don't know about that. I grew up reading lots and lots of fan comics and fanfiction, so the extra characters always felt less bad to me. I'll be kind of disappointed if Shadow and Silver don't ever appear again.

Abitha Denton
Jan 10, 2012

WickedHate posted:

I don't know about that. I grew up reading lots and lots of fan comics and fanfiction, so the extra characters always felt less bad to me. I'll be kind of disappointed if Shadow and Silver don't ever appear again.

Yeah, without Shadow, who would they use when someone needed to steal cars and shoot guns?

LeafyOrb
Jun 11, 2012

WickedHate posted:

I don't know about that. I grew up reading lots and lots of fan comics and fanfiction, so the extra characters always felt less bad to me. I'll be kind of disappointed if Shadow and Silver don't ever appear again.

Well there's your problem.

I still think Shadow should've stayed dead after SA2, you know when he wasn't the worst thing ever.

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

LeafyOrb posted:

Well there's your problem.

I know. I have pretty bad taste, but I guess I'm the audience they were going for with all the extra characters.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
Eh... I don't hate Silver, though I do feel he's unnecessary as a character. All of his major characterization came from Sonic 2006 which retconned itself, and now he's just... kinda around without having been properly reintroduced within the main games.

Gensuki
Sep 2, 2011

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

Eh... I don't hate Silver, though I do feel he's unnecessary as a character. All of his major characterization came from Sonic 2006 which retconned itself, and now he's just... kinda around without having been properly reintroduced within the main games.

Keep in mind, every character that was in Sonic 2006 still exists. It's just that none of the PLOT happened. Presumably X years in the future, some Silver furred hedgehog with big hair and psychic powers gets formed. He just isn't raised in a world of fire and death. So he's not a "Sonic 2006" character anymore, he's just some new character for Sonic Generations or Rivals.

I am weirdly sad this game never got a sequel... I do like the idea of a Sonic RPG anyway, and the game has a lot of good ideas ideas that I like (character based field actions, turn counts tied to individual characters).

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Gensuki posted:

Keep in mind, every character that was in Sonic 2006 still exists. It's just that none of the PLOT happened. Presumably X years in the future, some Silver furred hedgehog with big hair and psychic powers gets formed. He just isn't raised in a world of fire and death. So he's not a "Sonic 2006" character anymore, he's just some new character for Sonic Generations or Rivals.

Well, yes. But normally you would expect a new character to get some kind of... introduction. Like, how did Sonic and crew meet him? What's his backstory? What are his motivations? It doesn't have to be much (this is Sonic after all) but right now Big has more involvement in canon than Silver does. He's in this weird limbo where everything that connected him to the main cast was erased from continuity, but they still know him somehow. It could be easily fixed - just clarify his current connection to, say, Blaze (and then clarify Blaze's backstory) and presto, he's a friend of a friend. It's just that nobody seems to have done this yet.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Alien Arcana posted:

But normally you would expect a new character to get some kind of... introduction. Like, how did Sonic and crew meet him? What's his backstory? What are his motivations?

Right. This is what I meant.

I mean, even though Cream was introduced in Sonic Advance 2, she still got a sort of formal introduction at the beginning of Sonic Heroes in Team Rose's story. Same with Team Chaotix and Omega.

Heck, even Blaze got a sort of introduction in Sonic 2006.

But Silver hasn't really been reintroduced aside from in some side games.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

Right. This is what I meant.

I mean, even though Cream was introduced in Sonic Advance 2, she still got a sort of formal introduction at the beginning of Sonic Heroes in Team Rose's story. Same with Team Chaotix and Omega.

Heck, even Blaze got a sort of introduction in Sonic 2006.

But Silver hasn't really been reintroduced aside from in some side games.

"I'm from the future and incredibly incompetent. Please laugh at my antics of being the worst Time Detective."

That's Silver in a nutshell.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Onmi posted:

"I'm from the future and incredibly incompetent. Please laugh at my antics of being the worst Time Detective."

That's Silver in a nutshell.

I'm pretty sure that was Archie's approach to his characterisation in the comics.

RickDaedalus
Aug 2, 2009

Alien Arcana posted:

It could be easily fixed - just clarify his current connection to, say, Blaze (and then clarify Blaze's backstory) and presto, he's a friend of a friend. It's just that nobody seems to have done this yet.

It still wouldn't work because Blaze's backstory is that she's from another dimension. It was established in Sonic Rush (her first appearance) and its sequel, Rush Adventure, but Sonic 06 happened and hosed a lot of things up.

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

But Silver hasn't really been reintroduced aside from in some side games.

Something you might find interesting about Sonic Generations is that Silver just shows up. If you look at the intro cutscene for Sonic's birthday, everyone who appears in the game is there; the only two who don't show up are Shadow and Silver. Shadow would probably never actually show up to something like that and Silver isn't even supposed to exist (in their time at least). Silver just shows up at the final showdown as if he was there all along.

Gensuki
Sep 2, 2011

RickDaedalus posted:

It still wouldn't work because Blaze's backstory is that she's from another dimension. It was established in Sonic Rush (her first appearance) and its sequel, Rush Adventure, but Sonic 06 happened and hosed a lot of things up.

Blaze was from the Sonic 2006 dimension. A terrible place where it's impossible to walk in a straight line, and hedgehogs and humans mate. :gonk:

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004

Isn't the defining version of Blaze's dimension basically "We have Robotnik, but worse"?

Dr. Buttass
Aug 12, 2013

AWFUL SOMETHING

Lizard Wizard posted:

Isn't the defining version of Blaze's dimension basically "We have Robotnik, but worse"?

Also, instead of some kind of nebulously defined "chaos" energy, their ultimate power comes from fire.

Squallege
Jan 7, 2006

No greater good, no just cause

Grimey Drawer
I don't know about you guys but Blaze is pretty rad. She's like, the only female Sonic character that isn't manic.

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012



Gaseous Snake posted:

I don't know about you guys but Blaze is pretty rad. She's like, the only female Sonic character that isn't manic.

What about Maria? :colbert:

Also, all of you are forgetting that Silver is unquestionably the best character in Tails Gets Trolled.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Gaseous Snake posted:

I don't know about you guys but Blaze is pretty rad. She's like, the only female Sonic character that isn't manic.

Cream isn't manic!

Blaze probably is the best rounded female character, though.

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004

Gaseous Snake posted:

I don't know about you guys but Blaze is pretty rad. She's like, the only female Sonic character that isn't manic.


Manic's not a girl, you loving idiot. :colbert:

Opposing Farce
Apr 1, 2010

Ever since our drop-off service, I never read a book.
There's always something else around, plus I owe the library nineteen bucks.

Gaseous Snake posted:

I don't know about you guys but Blaze is pretty rad. She's like, the only female Sonic character that isn't manic.

Yeah, even though she's mostly just appearing in cameo roles at this point I actually kind of like Blaze (because gently caress you I actually kind of like Sonic Rush).

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer

Lizard Wizard posted:


Manic's not a girl, you loving idiot. :colbert:

Thank you for beating me to that joke.

Lizard Wizard posted:

Isn't the defining version of Blaze's dimension basically "We have Robotnik, but worse"?

Also, "our emeralds are square"



A quick update on updates by the way: The next one was supposed to be up yesterday, but then in the process of capturing screenshots/video for update 4, I actually found a much better cutoff point for #3, so I've got to rewrite a few things, make a few more gifs, etc, etc. Anyway, I'm not gonna keep a month-long gap between updates again. hopefully

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Hoss Corncave
Feb 13, 2012

Lizard Wizard posted:

Isn't the defining version of Blaze's dimension basically "We have Robotnik, but worse"?

They also have robot pirates. That makes her dimension better.

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