|
I was just using spoilers because everyone else was.  My point was more that the consequences of the reboot being shown during the crossover weren't necessary because it only affected less than half of the universes involved.
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 23:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 03:30 |
|
|
XaviortheSavior posted:Well drat, I don't have a comeback for that. I guess there's a reason Omni is the go-to comic guru for this thread. Still, I personally have no interest in reading onward. As I said, not a comic book Perfectly fine, but yeah a crossover like this is specifically a nice thing because A. Due to the Penders thing they needed to reboot Sonic and this gave them a good reason to B. Megaman... does not quite do the sales that Sonic does, and Sonic is I believe Archie's best series. C. It's a crossover people have wanted to see, especially since Megaman hasn't been getting the best of treatment from capcom. So it increases sales on both series, lets them do their soft reboot, and will help bring in new readers who weren't buying either. If you want to know what sucks about it is that there's a lot of Writing for the Trades in Archie, so 4 issue arcs, so while Sonic Unleashed has been getting a lot of time to explore the game and such, Megaman typically rushes through a game in 4 issues, which are about 20ish pages. It doesn't help.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 23:58
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Oh is it "let's explain how batshit the comics were under Pender's reign" time again? Thank you for your service good sir. Admittedly, I actually did see an appeal in the post-apocalyptic element, at least to explain the lack of humans, but at the same time they just made it way more complex than it ever needed to be. Little wonder that when it came to adapting Adventure 2, from what I recall, they just did a brief prologue chapter or two and then went 'gently caress it, just play the game'. I'm actually kinda curious what the human situation in the setting now is, given Unleashed relies on a fair bit of interaction with Professor Pickle and all. Anyone reading it right now know the situation?
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 00:17
|
|
|
I can't see what the details of the human situation are, but apparently Werehog is a completely berserk form in the Archie comics unlike in Unleashed where it's just a furry Sonic wearing cleats. I also found this. 
Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Oct 30, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 00:31
|
|
|
Humans just sort of coexist alongside animal-people now. Professor Pickle exists and several important GUN members are human as well.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 00:50
|
|
|
Welp, all this Sonic Comic talk has made me start reading them again.  I left off around 230, so I have 3 years of both Main series and Universe, plus the MegaMan stuff to catch up on. Also, I've played and beaten Sonic Chronicles. I thought the writing was great, and the audio was garbage. That's about it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 01:14
|
|
|
HomestarCanter posted:Also, I've played and beaten Sonic Chronicles. I thought the writing was great, and the audio was garbage. That's about it. I love how bad all the horrid midi tracks are, especially ones like Central City. BUT my favorite sound clip is still the kids cheering at the end of battles, it's just so out of place.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 01:25
|
|
|
Astro Nut posted:Thank you for your service good sir. According to this, Station Square was basically a terrestrial ark, designed to be self contained in the event of war. There were a few of them across the world, at least 7 or so. After Sonic Adventure and Chaos happened, the humans in station square realized they couldn't really afford to be isolationist anymore, and created a unified nation of humans and (some) Overlanders, opening up the other terrestrial arks and creating the Unified Federation. So the various human cultures you encounter in Unleashed were self-contained societies that expanded to the surface once the UF was formed. If this seems better constructed than most of the other stories, it's because this is from the Flynn years.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 01:50
|
|
|
Onmi posted:C. It's a crossover people have wanted to see, especially since Megaman hasn't been getting the best of treatment from capcom.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 02:47
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:According to this, Station Square was basically a terrestrial ark, designed to be self contained in the event of war. There were a few of them across the world, at least 7 or so. After Sonic Adventure and Chaos happened, the humans in station square realized they couldn't really afford to be isolationist anymore, and created a unified nation of humans and (some) Overlanders, opening up the other terrestrial arks and creating the Unified Federation. So the various human cultures you encounter in Unleashed were self-contained societies that expanded to the surface once the UF was formed. And here I thought it was just Earth with some intelligent, anthropomorphic animals and a few eldritch monsters sealed in various ways.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 06:08
|
|
|
Onmi posted:Perfectly fine, but yeah a crossover like this is specifically a nice thing because The pacing thing is honestly a real bummer for the Mega Man Comic. I love it and all, but it sucks when alot of the Robot Master fights are generally short, which is what happens when you have to fit in 8 villain battles in four issues. Quick Man (Ironically) and Shadow Man are the biggest examples I can think of. The Super Adventure Rockman Arc was alot better paced, due to the lack of the Robot Master Formula, and was honestly a fantastic arc. Actually, it is interesting that by the look of things, Mega Man 3 is getting four issues dedicated to the Robot Masters alone, since at the rate they're going through it, there is no way they can get to the Doc Robots and Break Man, let alone Wily's Castle in the remaining time. Anyway, on Sonic, I actually brought the Treasure Team Tango trade thanks to your recommendation Omni.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 06:11
|
|
|
Ometeotl posted:And here I thought it was just Earth with some intelligent, anthropomorphic animals and a few eldritch monsters sealed in various ways. Well, it is, it just took 1000 years of alien manipulation and war to get there. I mean this isn't even pointing out the fact that because of the many many things that Penders has said this means that the inhabitants of station square are descended from the passengers and crew of a single 747 that crashed into a mountain that just so happened to already have an entire pre-built, unoccupied city in it. The reason why this city was unoccupied while the others were is-
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 06:33
|
|
|
Oh man, I can't believe I read through the entirelly of the sonic comics in one week... Well, most of them, up until right after the crosover Penders shat on everything that used to be fun in Sonic comics, he made a point to turn even poors Horizontal and Vertical into war machines for no reason but "because"...
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 07:45
|
|
|
Waterguy posted:Oh man, I can't believe I read through the entirelly of the sonic comics in one week... I believe that was Bollers, though I could be wrong. Bollers had a lot of bad comics, it's just at the end he was doing some fun stuff too, like I legitimately thing "Return to Angel Island" is a good comic arc. Not that he didn't have his own problems, but his own idea of where to take the comic post "Sonic gets shot into space" is... better than penders which isn't much http://archive.sonichq.net/newsite/comics/kbsonicoverview.php
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 08:29
|
|
|
What's the worst thing to ever happen in comics? I feel even DESTINY wasn't the worst.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 08:50
|
|
|
Probably the cartoon dragon domestic abuse. Someone else will have to clarify that, I don't know where to find the precise pages.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 09:12
|
|
|
Dabir posted:Probably the cartoon dragon domestic abuse. Someone else will have to clarify that, I don't know where to find the precise pages. They did a bunch of poo poo to Dulcy just like, loving randomly. Like they had one or two plots where she was a helpful and valuable contribution to the team, and then they realized she had approximately no personality, so if they felt like they really had to use her in a storyline, they'd reveal a new and interesting way in which her life was a complete pile of poo poo, but they wouldn't actually bother to give her any more actual personality than was absolutely necessary.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 09:42
|
|
|
Dabir posted:Probably the cartoon dragon domestic abuse. Someone else will have to clarify that, I don't know where to find the precise pages. Yeah sure let me ju   Alright, apparently there was a two part plot arc in 2002 where Sonic and Sally were trying to convince the mayor of station square to take in some Overlander refugees from Robotropolis. He says he'll have to think about it. But then the next day a dragon attacks.   Mayor of station square talks to sonic and says "Look, you handled Chaos, you take this guy out we'll take in the refugees." And sonic agrees. So Sonic and the squad of marines who tried to take him in in SA2 hunt down the dragon in his hidden lair on his secret volcano island, and there they find their good friend Dulcy.  The marines move to attack both dragons but sonic intervenes and stops them, so then Zan tries to kill the marines but Dulcy begs him to stop and Zan goes on this huge rant about how dragons are superior and racial purity and all that and backhands her the gently caress out of his cave. So while sonic and the Marines are trying to kill Zan, Tails and Bunnie are outside the cave having a very special episode telling Dulcy that she can't be with someone who hurts her, and that he broke her arm, and she should have gone to the dragon cops or something.(Ignoring the fact that Dulcy is literally outcast from her race, and the ring in her nose was put there as a mark of shame to prevent her from using her fire. But that's another stupid story) The marines detonate some C4 and collapse the Volcano on top of Zan and then Dulcy and everyone else mourn the death of racist Godzilla. It's worth noting that the side story in these issues was Penders ripping off the Future Trunks storyline whole-hog. (which was yet another thing that Flynn managed to salvage) Kurieg fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Oct 30, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 13:48
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Yeah sure let me ju Oh dear God why? I mean porn is bad enough but VORE of all things? why does anyone even like that poo poo? it violates all common sense and fills me with disgust! I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 15:36
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:(Ignoring the fact that Dulcy is literally outcast from her race, and the ring in her nose was put there as a mark of shame to prevent her from using her fire. But that's another stupid story)
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 16:16
|
|
|
Yup, she's got a regular black nose ring normally, which doesn't do anything. But apparently if you shove a power-ring into a dragon's nose they can no longer breath fire. She's an exile because she left the dragon's secret mountain sanctuary, and for a long time she was also the last member of her race because robotnik roboticized them all, including her mother.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 16:26
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Alright, apparently there was a two part plot arc in 2002 where Sonic and Sally were trying to convince the mayor of station square to take in some Overlander refugees from Robotropolis. He says he'll have to think about it. But then the next day a dragon attacks. This is the dumbest thing, but it just sounds so magical. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 16:59
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Yup, she's got a regular black nose ring normally, which doesn't do anything. But apparently if you shove a power-ring into a dragon's nose they can no longer breath fire. She's an exile because she left the dragon's secret mountain sanctuary, and for a long time she was also the last member of her race because robotnik roboticized them all, including her mother. keep in mind, this was ONLY DONE BECAUSE THEY MISCOLOURED HER NOSE RING A FEW TIMES, because Penders was ridiculously Anal and NEEDED to explain why character designs changed (Sally used to be pink, then she had blond hair, she went through a few changes) So it could not be just "Hey, we redesigned the characters" or "We made an art blunder" it was "No no, Sally fell in a vat of chemicals!" And it was YEARS AFTER THE FACT! NOBODY COULD POSSIBLY CARE!
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 22:37
|
|
|
Onmi posted:keep in mind, this was ONLY DONE BECAUSE THEY MISCOLOURED HER NOSE RING A FEW TIMES, because Penders was ridiculously Anal and NEEDED to explain why character designs changed (Sally used to be pink, then she had blond hair, she went through a few changes) So it could not be just "Hey, we redesigned the characters" or "We made an art blunder" it was "No no, Sally fell in a vat of chemicals!" And it was YEARS AFTER THE FACT! NOBODY COULD POSSIBLY CARE! Also, she totally breathed fire with the gold ring. For being so weirdly anal he sure wasn't very consistent.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
Talking about this whole dragon thing reminded me, for all his "if they wanted a grim sonic movie they should buy my old storyline", said storyline had: Sonic being considered innocent of killing Sally because Dulcy said so (Dragon words are always the truth, because the author said so), Sonic surviving because of no feat of his own, and Sally surviving because the fans complained (the explanation in-comic was so stupid I forgot).
Waterguy fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Oct 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2014 23:56
|
|
|
I might as well pop the festering boil that is Lara-Su, Knuckles' daughter and Pender's brainchild, just to get it out of the way. The problem is that there are *multiple* Lara-Sus, and Penders has no one to blame but himself for that. The first Lara-Su to appear in the comics was from an alternate dark future, Knuckles is dead, the Dark Legion rules the world, and the last few survivors hide from their depredations. Using her rudimentary training in using Chaos Control she traveled back in time to  Unfortunately for her he was actually trying to shoot the real assassin, who managed to hit Knuckles. And she dejectedly went back to the future. Except Knuckles faked his death, and her mother was lying to her, and in the dark future Knuckles is actually leading the Dark Legion. Meaning she wasted untold amounts of energy traveling back into the past to do poo poo all. The second Lara-Su is from "light Mobius" or the 'good future' of "Mobius 25 Years Later", which Ken Penders claims is his ultimate contribution to the sonic universe. Lasting over a year's worth of the comics, it involved a future where Sonic married Sally, Tails married Mina Mongoose, all sorts of other things happened, everyone has babies, and it's all very banal. It's basically 12 comics of world building including Lara-Su's 16th birthday party and how she really wants to be a guardian but her father won't let her because it only brings suffering but then he's like his father because he's dictating what his child does and all sorts of other things that would make :human being: proud.  But the world is doomed for some reason and they have to send sonic back into the past to fix it which completely undoes the timeline. An entire years worth of comics describing Knuckles' family life and it all didn't actually happen because I have no loving clue why. It was also the last time they let Penders draw cover art.  I think you can see why. Both versions of these characters got a *lot* better under Flynn's writing including Dark Lara-Su basically becoming John Conner and fighting against her father's army of soul-powered robots and then accidentally becoming god, also Silver is there because time travel.  and Light Lara-Su becoming guardian of the floating island and the only person in the world capable of babysitting Sonic and Sally's mutant offspring  Unfortunately all of that doesn't really matter because as far as Penders is concerned that's 'non-canon' since he didn't write it. One of Penders' 'Three Rules' that Archie would have to follow if they wanted to continue using his characters was "Acknowledge that Light mobius is the one and true future of the Sonic Universe" so basically "Say my Fanfic is Canon and endorse my graphic novel."
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2014 06:05
|
|
|
It should be mentioned, and really hammered in. Silver is BY FAR one of the best characters Flynn has handled, and it's a very simple concept to grasp. He really does play Silver like Trunks, but he also plays him like a really naive and stupid trunks. So between constantly assuming everyone is 'The Traitor' and looking like a fool, he's honestly trying to save his crappy rear end future. I mean there's no iblis, but the whole place is basically dead, there's a point where he comes back from the past after another failed attempt and no one really remembers him. This is not uncommon because time travel makes him become unstuck from time so he can do what he does, So he has to relearn all of history including what HE HIMSELF has done, he's told that he was quite heroic when he defeated that hydra. He was then asked if the Ark was ALWAYS burning perpetually on the horizon and his answer is "Unfortunately that's still the same."  It's like there, he clearly intends to question the Vector clone, but got caught up in the heat of it. The difference between say... here and Sonic 06. Is Silver genuinely comes across as a likable person, a gently caress-up, but a gently caress-up who's trying his best to help people, who's learning from his mistakes. He's goofy, the good kind of goofy, with a lot of charm and it's GOOD when he finally succeeds and you root for the guy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2014 07:10
|
|
|
What was the absolute worst story arc?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2014 07:53
|
|
|
Sramaker posted:What was the absolute worst story arc? I wanna say it was "Sally is dead". It was basically The Fugitive (starring Sonic as Harrison Ford and Obnoxious St. John as Tommy Lee Jones), but, you know, boring.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2014 08:01
|
|
|
Sramaker posted:What was the absolute worst story arc? Oh man... there's... so many... I'm going to go with Mobius 20 Years Later. Nothing HAPPENS in Mobius 20 Years Later. It just keeps going... and going... and going... and then it all leads to nothing! I mean... it's this or Tommy Turtle.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2014 08:05
|
|
|
Onmi posted:Oh man... there's... so many... I'm going to go with Mobius 20 Years Later. Nothing HAPPENS in Mobius 20 Years Later. It just keeps going... and going... and going... and then it all leads to nothing! I mean... it's this or Tommy Turtle. Please go into more detail because i've already experienced how bad this game gets so it's interesting to learn about poorly written sonic spinoffs I have not experienced.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2014 08:36
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Please go into more detail because i've already experienced how bad this game gets so it's interesting to learn about poorly written sonic spinoffs I have not experienced. http://secondary-site.com/1e454151dcf9c865.html
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2014 09:05
|
|
|
Sramaker posted:What was the absolute worst story arc? It's a toss up between knuckles X Years later or the various tails solo arcs where he falls in love with Fiona fox, except Fiona fox isn't real she's a robot. Except no she is real. Except yes she is real but the version that tails fell in love with was a robot duplicate specifically designed to seduce him.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2014 13:57
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:It's a toss up between knuckles X Years later or the various tails solo arcs where he falls in love with Fiona fox, except Fiona fox isn't real she's a robot. Except no she is real. Except yes she is real but the version that tails fell in love with was a robot duplicate specifically designed to seduce him. Sounds like the writers were having a retcon duel. You get those every so often in comic series, but usually not quite so many at once.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2014 14:02
|
|
|
Geostomp posted:Sounds like the writers were having a retcon duel. You get those every so often in comic series, but usually not quite so many at once. Okay let me tell you about how much Karl Bollers and Ken Penders hated each other. See I pointed out in my original essay that Penders wasn't always the head writer, at times it was Bollers. Who was a very wordy guy with a lot of bad stories, just not Penders bad, and the thing was he did the thing where he improved over time. Like in comparison, he'd actually played Sonic and knew the details of it. Penders didn't like this. He, having never played a game, was the scribe of Sonic, so he was going to gently caress Bollers at every point he could by never acknowledging his stories. Bollers responded in kind. I will always go to this example it's the best example. Knuckles baby brother was being introduced into the comic, and he needed a name. Now he was schedualed for Mobius X Years Later AND For "Return to Angel Island" now keep in mind the former was Penders and the latter was Bollers. Now imagine how happy Penders was now that someone ELSE was writing about Knuckles and his plot and family! Well Penders wanted to name his younger brother Mace, like the weapon, because Penders is boring as hell. Bollers was not boring, he decided "Imma name him Kneecaps, because Knuckles and Kneecaps, and it's funny." So naturally the editor should step in and tell them what's what, but he was busy writing about Sonics super best friend Tommy Turtle. So Bollers is the main writer at the time, but Penders goes ahead and calls him Mace in Mobius 20 years later. So Bollers is like, "Motherfucker, two can play at this game." So when Baby knuckles is introduced his name was Kneecapeon Mace, so Kneecaps the Echidna. I seriously do recommend at LEAST checking out Return to Angel Island, cause Dubs (Jon Gray) is a good cartoon artist.  A REALLY good cartoon artist, and it's... refreshing and a fun little story.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2014 14:25
|
|
|
Oh yeah, also Kneecaps is gay. So's Rotor, at least according to Penders. Except Kneecaps only characterization in XYL is "Hoo boy that Mace gets all the ladies. You better not go flirt with those married women now Mace." Penders went on to defend this as "Well gay men do attract a lot of women and I never actually said women, he might be flirting with married men." And Rotor was apparently in a gay relationship with his assistant who had perhaps 3 pages max of characterization and otherwise could have been a piece of furniture. The reason most people figure he's doing this is he's trying to weld some gay characters into the cast of his graphic novel and the way he figures he can do this is by making previously unknown characters Gay. He also threw some snipes at Flynn for killing off Rotor's gay lover but Flynn's response was "If there had been ANY indication he was his gay lover I probably would have kept him alive. Without that information he's just a functionally redundant Rotor." Kurieg fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Oct 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2014 14:37
|
|
|
The issues drawn by Jon Gray are my favorites just for the art alone. Tracey Yardley is great too, but...yeah I just love Jon's work.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2014 02:16
|
|
|
I think I hated Gray's work because who was writing at the time. My brain connected his artwork with where the story/characters were at in the comics at the time. Unfair, I know. I think I'm willing to give it another shot, though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2014 05:24
|
|
|
Have we talked about Mobius 30 years later andéor that time future king Sonic was replaced by Future King Shadow because of time fuckery? I have been reading the comic a little and so far i don't like Sally and i'm only up to Sonic #11 Edit: Penders is a liar, he did not invent Evil Sonic since that character was introduced in /11! Sramaker fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Nov 1, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2014 05:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 03:30 |
|
|
I've been really agonizing over how to bring this up, but, I have a confession to make. As a kid, I'd really liked the Sonic comics, and when I was nine years old, I saw the Endgame saga and got all four issues and I actually really liked it at the time oh God I'm so sorry. I even got the Director's Cut of #50 and thought it was excellent. I'm so, so sorry. I was young, I didn't know what I was doing! This was deep intrigue and moving drama to my childbrains! I was a fool, a damned fool! 
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2014 06:07
|
|
