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I'm kind of looking forward to Riki's quest because I want to know what's so horrible about it exactly. I think I started it once, got bored, and switched out for Red instead.
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Feb 2, 2014 01:33
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FelicityGS posted:I'm kind of looking forward to Riki's quest because I want to know what's so horrible about it exactly. I think I started it once, got bored, and switched out for Red instead. At least half of why Riki's quest is so terrible is because your main character is a monster and if you don't know the monster mechanics inside and out monsters are terrible. It also just HAPPENED to be where the game designers threw most of their bullshit dungeon and enemy decisions. Not all, by any means, but more than the lummox's share. Finally, it's by far the most linear of the quests, meaning you have to intentionally force yourself into doing sidequests and character grinding. ...also, I thought that it was Ring Lord, not Time Lord, that was the bullshit moment in Riki's quest?  It doesn't help that so many mystics go around calling themselves <Noun> Lord.
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Feb 2, 2014 01:58
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KataraniSword posted:At least half of why Riki's quest is so terrible is because your main character is a monster and if you don't know the monster mechanics inside and out monsters are terrible. Everything about Riki's quest is just "gently caress you player" from the start to the end. I can't think of a single enjoyable moment. I feel like that quest was designed by someone very bitter at life.
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Feb 2, 2014 02:14
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KataraniSword posted:...also, I thought that it was Ring Lord, not Time Lord, that was the bullshit moment in Riki's quest? Oh yeah lol, I mixed them up. You do have to talk to him to GET to Time Lord though. gently caress that guy anyway.
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Feb 2, 2014 02:18
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Shwqa posted:Everything about Riki's quest is just "gently caress you player" from the start to the end. I can't think of a single enjoyable moment. I feel like that quest was designed by someone very bitter at life. It sounds like I dodged a bullet by just playing the scenarios I really liked over and over. Complete everything in the game? Who does that?  That said, hearing this is just going to make it more interesting for me, because I never did understand how monsters work.
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Feb 2, 2014 03:34
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You can't even get to Time Lord in Rikis quest because gently caress you, you're a monster, and gently caress you harder, you're Riki. Also this and Time Lord are probably the only fights you'll ever use Psychic Prison, but it's kind of thematically appropriate. You know, turning their power back on it as you take it for your own, kind of deal. I still like it. I will nth that Time Lord has bitchin' tunes too. Also Blue is a dick, etc.
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Feb 2, 2014 06:49
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Alkarl posted:Also this and Time Lord are probably the only fights you'll ever use Psychic Prison There's at least one more fight that's hilarious for Psychic Prison.
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Feb 2, 2014 07:06
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KataraniSword posted:Naturally, this means that all we miss from the other side is a slight exploit and a boss battle - one that's a fair bit trickier than "apply PsychicPrison liberally, scream in anguish whenever SacredSong happens". Psychic Prison can shut down Time Lord completely, too. Even more effectively than Kylin, because as soon as he casts Overdrive, he'll lose all JP and he'll have to resort to clubbing you with his staff, maybe throw a couple Magic Stones, so Blue can stop using Psychic Prison and start with the heavy stuff What we really miss is the game's coolest sword hackbunny fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Feb 4, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 14:03
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hackbunny posted:What we really miss is the game's coolest sword He'll probably pick that up in Asellus' story. For everyone else, it comes so late and you've got so many other options that the cost really isn't worth it. vvv Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. And he's locked out of abusing it now. Ayana fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 4, 2014 14:46
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Ayana posted:He'll probably pick that up in Asellus' story. For everyone else, it comes so late and you've got so many other options that the cost really isn't worth it. Well, there's an exploit specifically in Blue's quest that I had mentioned. I'll talk about it after the next few updates if dude doesn't want to go into it.
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Feb 4, 2014 20:37
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Hey y'all. Just a heads up that updates are gonna be a bit slower this month because I have to travel for work and will only be home on the weekends. I'll try to get one or two this month if I get the chance.
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Feb 7, 2014 05:57
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Hey, no worries, you've done great. ...well, aside from murdering a bunch of orphans when their space collapsed.
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Feb 9, 2014 23:34
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Glazius posted:Hey, no worries, you've done great. Man, if we counted every murdered orphan... who the hell has that kind of time?
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Feb 10, 2014 01:20
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Good news for y'all! My flight out today got cancelled so I now find myself with an evening at home with not much else to do aside from prep an update.So continuing on with where we left off after the last update, let's see what happens now that we have all three gifts for Shadow, Arcane, and Space magic.  With Kylin gone, all of the children in his realm vanish presumably because it was his magic that supported the space. I'm assuming that Mei-Ling here is questioning whether what we did was right and it's just awkwardly translated. As it stands now it just makes her sound lazy and assholish. Although I guess it's fitting that Blue would be on a team of assholes.    So here's where the final duel will take place. The rock spires do add that extra bit of drama.  Battle 3 The fight begins and a MagiSphere is chosen. The MagiSphere essentially forces you to use the chosen magic school as it cripples all other types of magic. Rouge is essentially a carbon copy of Blue when it comes to stats and equipment. I believe he comes with two spells from each of the schools that Blue didn't grab and Realm. So for us that's Light, Rune, and Time.  The MagiSphere will alwasy start out in Realm which is handy as it gives us the opportunity to one shot Rouge with Vermillion Sand. The MagiSphere's dampening effect is potent. To give you an idea Rouge has 452 HP just like Blue and between a non Realm MagiSphere and Rouge's high defenses, Vermillion Sand won't even 2HKO.  So the game decided rather correctly that only having to take out the opponent once would make this fight a bit too much of a quickdraw. So instead the winner must take out all of the opponents life points. Every time someone gets knocked out, Reviva will activate to restore them to full HP. When Rouge gets knocked out he'll also do this little dance until his next action   For every good design decision the game makes though, it seems they make a bad one. The MagiSphere's will swap between every magic school in the game, even if it's something impossible for Blue or Rouge to get like Evil or Mirage magic.  I think this was from a Sun Ray spell or something. Also you may have noticed that Blue and Rouge's positions have changed. Throughout the fight they'll both be bouncing around across the stones. It makes the fight drag on.  Rouge seems to really like busting out Soul Rune and then not doing much with it. He does this multiple times during the fight.  He also has a lot of Magic Stones which will usually do about 200+ damage and ignore the MagiSphere. Ironically, every non magic action does full damage meaning the best way to approach this fight is with a bunch of strong physical attacks which will tear Rouge to shreds.  Rouge also nails us with Psychic Prison a few times which is rather frustrating if it happens in the Realm or Shadow MagiSpheres as those are the best time for Blue to deal damage. As a whole though, we're pulling ahead just because we're not being controlled by a dim AI.  At least until this happens. OverDrive from the Time school is Rouge's trump card and it's probably the most broken spell in the game.  Overdrive gives the caster 6-8 consecutive turns. We'll discuss this in a bit more detail later but it's extremely powerful.  To make matters worse for us, he used Overdrive while in the Light MagiSphere so his offensive spells are doing normal damage. Here he sticks to Sun Ray and we lose around 3 LP from all the casts. I have no idea why he didn't use Flash Fire instead, but if he had we could have really been in trouble.  We survive though and take him out shortly thereafter proving once again that not being controlled by a dumbshit AI can counteract a lot of other disadvantages.  I included this because I thought it was funny, but Blue gets some WP after the battle because it turns out hitting Rouge with his wimpy magician fists does more damage than impaling Rouge with 3 magic swords if the MagiSphere isn't set to Arcane.       After the fight we get a credits roll because I guess they had to put it in somewhere.   When Blue beat me, he absorbed my being. I know! I'm both Blue and Rouge. We were never twins. It was just me all along. So for beating Rouge we gain access to the gifts of the seven magic schools (Realm, Time, Space, Light, Shadow, Rune, Arcane) as well as all the spells from the gifts we didn't pick. You do not gain the spells you don't have yet from the gifts you did pick (We're still missing Tower from Arcane). Additionally, your Intelligence, Will, Psychic and JP stats are all doubled.  Additionally you will learn the two Life magic spells, Sacrifice and Reviva. We've seen Reviva. It's essentially a full hp Reraise spell. I don't think the character loses any LP either if Reviva activates. Sacrifice is even better. For the price of 1 LP you greatly heal the entire party. There are a few characters with skills like this and all of them are really good.  With both sets of gifts, Blue is absolutely ridiculous. He's capable of creating crazy strong magic lists like the one above with the best spells from each school. In the next update we'll do some final miscellaneous tasks and take Blue out for a spin to see just how broken he is. Also, as it's been hinted at, if you lose the fight to Rouge you don't get a game over. Instead Rouge takes over as the dominant half and we'll have his sprite for the rest of the game. There are some slight mechanic differences as well. Rouge will lose any other magic that Blue picked up that wasn't from the main 7 schools (namely mystic magic if you bought Blue some of those.) He will also lose all WP and any gun, sword, or fighting techniques. For us we would have lost all of that 1 WP that Blue gained while fighting Rouge. Finally, if you go for Time magic Blue has the opportunity to permanently spend LP to get some nice items. Rouge will come with all his LP intact so if you spend a bunch of LP on those items, it might be worth it to lose to Rouge.
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Feb 10, 2014 03:35
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I never did go Space Magic. Is it just Mei-Ling who talks to you after killing Kylin, or does the game select a random character from your roster to start talking?
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Feb 10, 2014 03:50
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quote:Overdrive gives the caster 6-8 consecutive turns. We'll discuss this in a bit more detail later but it's extremely powerful.  You're loving joking. Tell me you're loving joking. There is not a single RPG in the world where that won't be broken as hell. Who thought this was a good idea?
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Feb 10, 2014 04:10
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SSNeoman posted:
The caveat is that after those turns you lose all of your WP and JP and the 6-8 turn effect wears off...usually.
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Feb 10, 2014 04:11
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SSNeoman posted:
 Believe it or not, Overdrive is actually one of the less broken abilities. I'll wait for dude to get to that though, but yes, this game can get more broken than that.
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Feb 10, 2014 04:17
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SSNeoman posted:
You can do pretty much the same thing in a few Final Fantasy games without losing all your MP and no 10 second Overdrive animation.
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Feb 10, 2014 04:21
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The first time I went in this fight, I too have went in with a bunch of MagicStones and dumping them all over Rouge. Second time, instead of traditionally adhering to the 'magical duel to the death' approach, I just grinded a bunch of Sword Skills for Blue, cast LightSword when the opportunity came up and went to town. gently caress magic...except for LightSword.
Thwack! fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 04:25
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dude789 posted:The caveat is that after those turns you lose all of your WP and JP and the 6-8 turn effect wears off...usually. To further clarify, in almost every occasion that Overdrive ends, the character's WP and JP zero out. That includes the end of whatever battle you use Overdrive in. In exchange, your WP and JP doesn't decrease when you use skills while IN Overdrive. The trade-off is that it is incredibly obnoxious to refill your WP/JP in between battles without finding a way to visit an inn or something like that. It's also incredibly difficult to get a character with Overdrive. The only people who can ever get it without cheating/hacking is Blue (or Rouge) in his own quest and the character that Blue would have to kill for the gift. Overdrive is also the circumstances I'd mentioned where the Arcane magic Tower gets kind of shafted. While you're in Overdrive, since your JP doesn't decrease when you use Tower, don't expect to do much more damage than SunRay. Double-digit damage is not uncommon against stronger enemies. Find something else to do with those turns. Likewise, I'm pretty sure DSC's damage is nerfed to hell in an Overdrive, but I can't entirely trust my memory there without outside confirmation. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 04:55
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SSNeoman posted:
The only person who can cast it is the current Lord of Time. Basically you have to become a god first. You'd better be broken.
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Feb 10, 2014 05:25
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KataraniSword posted:To further clarify, in almost every occasion that Overdrive ends, the character's WP and JP zero out. That includes the end of whatever battle you use Overdrive in. In exchange, your WP and JP doesn't decrease when you use skills while IN Overdrive. The trade-off is that it is incredibly obnoxious to refill your WP/JP in between battles without finding a way to visit an inn or something like that. Unless you sit out a few random battles with that character. You regain 5 of each per battle fought with a different party.
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Feb 10, 2014 05:52
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SSNeoman posted:
I assume you're not that familiar with Square's work...
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Feb 10, 2014 06:14
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Yeah, I generally throw the fight with Rouge these days, just because I like his sprite better. I remember I found out about that just from boredom, because I wanted to see if you got a special game over screen or something. It was a pleasant surprise, and I just like running around as the not-rear end in a top hat twin. Also I think in 'canon' Rouge won, but yeah. Fun times being a magical god of death.
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Feb 10, 2014 06:47
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Alkarl posted:Yeah, I generally throw the fight with Rouge these days, just because I like his sprite better. I remember I found out about that just from boredom, because I wanted to see if you got a special game over screen or something. It was a pleasant surprise, and I just like running around as the not-rear end in a top hat twin. Also I think in 'canon' Rouge won, but yeah. Fun times being a magical god of death. Yeah; I forget how much detail Essence goes into on Blue's story, but it's confirmed that at least in that take on the plot, Rouge defeats Blue which actually becomes semi-relevant in that he's not a giant, flaming douchecanoe.
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Feb 10, 2014 06:55
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So when Rogue's Overdrive expires, is he reduced to wailing on you with his ineffective magician fists?
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Feb 11, 2014 20:51
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Pneub posted:You can do pretty much the same thing in a few Final Fantasy games without losing all your MP and no 10 second Overdrive animation. You're thinking of Quick, right? You still have to recast it though. And it only ("only") gives you two turns. But I guess the trade off is pretty obnoxious.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:56
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SSNeoman posted:You're thinking of Quick, right? You still have to recast it though. And it only ("only") gives you two turns. You can milk 5 Ultima casts or do about 100,000 physical damage a turn if you set it up right.
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Feb 11, 2014 23:53
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Glazius posted:So when Rogue's Overdrive expires, is he reduced to wailing on you with his ineffective magician fists? No he can still throw out Sunrays and Energy Chains becuase those are free to cast (he has spell mastery), but I didn't see him do anything else.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:22
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I still remember how happy I was I could be Rouge if I let him win. I always liked his sprite more, and, when I did the other routes, him.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:49
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Quick update today but one in that I expect many readers are anticipating because we're going to show off the true brokennes that is Blue.  First we go pick up mind magic because Blue needs even MORE magic.   It's fairly easy for most of our team.  You'll get him this time Lute!  Lute actually lasts a surprising amount of time in round 2 of Lute vs Lich, but sadly goes down when the Lich stops messing around with status and blows him up with Rava Barrier.  So Blue after his fight with Rouge is fairly insane. The doubled spellcasting stats do ridiculous things to his damage and makes spells like MegaWindBlast a real screen clearer.  Even Energy chain is pumping out around 1000 damage and the Palsy chance is extremely high. But to show off Blue's true potential we'll need something a bit beefier.  Here we go. Meet the Kraken. The Kraken is the final tier of the Reptile sprite enemies and is notorious for being the toughest regularly encountered monster in the game. (The Dullahan is a close second). The Kraken has tons of HP and always starts off a battle with a ridiculously strong Maelstrom attack. If he were to get the chance to use it, it would probably one shot everyone except for maybe Engineer Car. Even if you give everyone water nullifying equipment, you're not out of the woods. The Kraken can use his basic physical attack a whole bunch of times (I think up to 6?) and each hit will do about 200-300 damage even with all of the great armor we have equipped.  But none of that matters because we have Blue and as a result the Kraken will never get a turn.  Mei Ling starts things off with a nice chunk of damage from her initiative Bound Shot attack because she has quick draw.  And then Blue drops Overdrive....and Shadow Servent.  And then because we don't want to kill the Kraken, Blue spams energy chain 6 times.  So while we're here let's talk a bit about the mechanics of Overdrive. Overdrive is an initiative skill (other initiative skills like Mei-Ling's Bound Shot can still beat it if the user is faster though) that immediately ends the round and starts a new round in which the caster is the only one who can act. The caster is granted 6-8 actions for that round and all WP and JP costs are reduced to 0. At the end of those actions, the round ends and the caster loses all WP and JP. I suspect the 0 JP/WP cost was used as a countermeasure to prevent players from blowing the rest of their JP on the last Overdrive turn with Tower or something, but it also slightly weakens all other attacks as a result of the JP/WP modifier in the damage calcs.  That is unless we cast Stasis Rune. If you read the update on Arcane magic, you'll recall that Stasis Rune puts the caster and target in a sort of petrified state where neither can take damage or be affected by status. The important aspect here is that due to a programming oversight Stasis Rune blocks both the WP/JP loss and the status change back to 1 action per turn.  Here you can see Blue has retained his WP and JP.  One quick casting of Grail to remove the Stasis effect and Blue is free to run around with 8 turns for the rest of battle. This is really broken by itself, but the Kraken can still wipe us out if he gets a lucky attack string once his Stasis Rune wears off...that is unless we cast Overdrive again. This is something that a lot of people overlook. They see Blue running around with 8 turns and think that's overpowered enough as is. But if you abuse this trick the enemy party will almost never get a turn outside of weird initiative moves. Overdrive is cast at the start of the round and cancels out all actions that come after it. As long as Blue has at least 9 JP he can repeat the loop until the enemy is dead or he runs out of JP (and remember spells are free in Overdrive mode!).  I tried to show the loop repeat off here, but Mei-Ling killed the Kraken before Blue could cast it again. One fun thing Blue can do in his post Overdrive state is that he can participate in combos multiple times. This can allow you to create longer combos than just five actions. The only limitation is that he can't chain his own attacks together so the maximum combo regular combo length is 9 hits. So for example a combo of Blue-Mei Ling-Blue will work, but not Blue-Blue-Mei Ling. Finally, I'll leave you with this fun video where the player hacked the game and gave an entire party Overdrive and then creates a 40 hit combo with 40 distinct attacks. The boss they're fighting in the video is Timelord who we would have had to fight if we had gone with the Time gift instead of the Space one. While TimeLord doesn't have the same devastating multi target attacks that Kylin does, he casts Overdrive at low hp if you don't keep him locked down with psychic prison. It's debatable as to which fight is more difficult. The astute among you may wonder how they got 40 distinct attacks when you only have a max of 8 skillslots per character and 2 of them are filled with Overdrive and Stasis Rune, but they used item casts and heavy weapons to make up the difference. Anyway, next time we'll take our avatar of destruction back to Magic Kingdom so we can show off our victory over Rouge. Maybe they'll even be a parade! You have to figure that a place called Magic Kingdom would be good at parades right? buddychrist10 fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 01:44
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Oh wow. That level 40 combo is impossibly badass. I wanna see something like that done in a 3d game.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:58
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Holy gently caress that combo. Looks so cool and I can't imagine how long it must have taken that guy to figure out getting them all linked.
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Feb 18, 2014 02:21
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That 40 hit combo is a thing of beauty  I mean, I knew it was broken before, but I had no idea about the statis rune doing that, and I certainly wouldn't have thought to try it at the age I was playing the game. Just drat.
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Feb 18, 2014 02:27
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dude789 posted:Finally, I'll leave you with this fun video where the player hacked the game and gave an entire party Overdrive and then creates a 40 hit combo with 40 distinct attacks. Hyper combo finish!
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Feb 18, 2014 02:34
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Man, is there any SaGa game that doesn't have some sort of ridiculous exploit due to programmer oversight?
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Feb 18, 2014 03:06
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That would require there to be a SaGa game that was released on-time, budget intact, and in a complete state.
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Feb 18, 2014 03:26
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If Youtube comments are to be believed, the full name of that combo is "Million-Slide-Suplex-Rocket Headwind Heat Cannon Elec-Missile Plasma-Electro-Missile Plasma- Fantasy Zatsurei Blasto-Masto Goldeon Spring Bullet Hyperspeed Darkstorm-Cannon Thundershock Curve-Shot Proton Rocket Thunderbolt Giant's Loco-Meditation Thunder Gryffin Rollin' Meteor Tri-Kick Meteor-Swift Tiger-Sky-Rising Rosario The Tower Triple-Rakshasa Cross-Moonless"
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Feb 18, 2014 03:27
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I think everyone whose played this game is thinking the same thing as I am... how much is that 40 hit combo worth? Is there a cap to it?
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Feb 18, 2014 03:30
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