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This was my fault since I brought it up, but I think it would be best to drop this for now since this discussion could go south very quickly. After a few more updates we can bring it back up, but right now I think that the difference between those who know what's going to happen and those who are seeing this for the first time is a bit too wide to have a good dialogue (Saga Frontier's bad translation is probably not helping matters.)
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Dec 22, 2014 07:19
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doing the obvious posted:Also, I think that Asellus using mystic magic also plays a minute effect on which ending you get railroaded into. In true, obtuse Saga fashion, it's how much Mystic equipment you upgrade, and I think it's the only thing that determines it.
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Dec 22, 2014 07:31
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wiegieman posted:In true, obtuse Saga fashion, it's how much Mystic equipment you upgrade, and I think it's the only thing that determines it. There are some very obscure and minute things you would never think to do that also lock you out of endings in the very tail end of the story. How it calculates which ending you get is...very odd, to say the least. Overuse of the mystic abilities is one that does lock you out of certain endings, but I think that overuse of mystic magic (since she has the gift for it) can, too.
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Dec 22, 2014 07:58
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The latter bothers me because you can't otherwise have a human with a gift for Mystic Magic. It feels like a waste not being able to use it because you're aiming for a specific ending.
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Dec 22, 2014 08:05
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It's a matter of 'principle', and gameplay and story intergration. Use the power you've been 'given', or deny it?
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Dec 22, 2014 08:34
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What I'm more wondering about, as I never played this chapter, is that one of the main gimmicks of having a Half-Mystic character have multiple endings -- the way of one of which involves not using the main gimmick of said character all play through. That's pretty interesting, honestly.
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Dec 22, 2014 09:12
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It's very SaGa in general really. There's only mild hints at how this will work, and the steps are contrary to typical player logic ("Hey cool a human with Mystic gear! Let's absorb some monsters!"), but it makes perfect sense once you know about it; Asellus' story is about her coming to terms with her life as a Mystic, and how much she embraces that side of her determines how that story ends.
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Dec 22, 2014 09:33
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Green Sage was pretty much the point where I had to take Asellus' quest seriously. Pretty much every point from here until the endgame approach involved me going and grinding in the Wrecked Ship in Shingrow for a couple hours between each boss attempt.
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Dec 22, 2014 23:21
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:The latter bothers me because you can't otherwise have a human with a gift for Mystic Magic. It feels like a waste not being able to use it because you're aiming for a specific ending. That was the ending I went for when I played through, because I assumed that the hardest ending would be the most ~special~. Then I got the ending and thought it was loving garbage.  Anyway, I think what ending Asellus gets is determined by two criteria, in the manner of Castlevania 2 : Meet neither, ending A - meet either, ending B - meet both, ending C. Also, I believe the two switches are whether or not you absorbed any souls using Mystic gear (Mystic magic can be used regardless), and how you handle a particular plot event.
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Dec 23, 2014 03:40
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Jeedy Jay posted:Anyway, I think what ending Asellus gets is determined by two criteria, in the manner of Castlevania 2 : Meet neither, ending A - meet either, ending B - meet both, ending C. Also, I believe the two switches are whether or not you absorbed any souls using Mystic gear (Mystic magic can be used regardless), and how you handle a particular plot event. There are many criteria I can think of that calculate the ending she gets. Using mystic abilities (sword, glove, boots) or using mystic magic even once locks you out of one, doing (or not doing) something rather obscure and incredibly obtuse in the very tail end of the story also figures into it, how often you use mystic abilities also figure into it...it's all overly elaborate, really. Like if you use your mystic abilities, but do the very obscure thing, then you get the ending you were hoping for, but if you use(d) your mystic abilities too much, you'll get an entirely different ending despite what previous choices you made. Only one of the endings is really awful though. It could be worse, all of the endings could be as terrible as the 'YOUR SUFFERING WAS ALL FOR NAUGHT' Riki treatment 
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Dec 23, 2014 04:04
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doing the obvious posted:It could be worse, all of the endings could be as terrible as the 'YOUR SUFFERING WAS ALL FOR NAUGHT' Riki treatment Which they could have easily been. None of Asellus's shenanigans would have happened if Orlouge had bothered to do anything about them himself. IIRC he could very easily have put the kibosh on this entire adventure drat near anytime if he really wanted to.
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Dec 23, 2014 04:13
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Raitzeno posted:Which they could have easily been. None of Asellus's shenanigans would have happened if Orlouge had bothered to do anything about them himself. IIRC he could very easily have put the kibosh on this entire adventure drat near anytime if he really wanted to. Well, when you're an unbelievably decadent wizard-vampire-king, you have to make your own amusement.
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Dec 23, 2014 04:50
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IIRC, the only Mystic things that affect the ending you get are supposed to be things related to the Mystic weapon skills. However, because of a programming errors, they don't do this equally and in one case not correctly. The Sword is most affected by the errors and so it's basically the most important of the three. Other than some accidental complexity caused by the Mystic Sword becoming far more important that it is, getting the different endings is actually quite simple.
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Dec 23, 2014 23:21
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wiegieman posted:Well, when you're an unbelievably decadent wizard-vampire-king, you have to make your own amusement. Frankly, I'm surprised he could pull himself away from his Lovenasium for long enough to even delegate his prodigal pseudo-daughter's retrieval.
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Dec 24, 2014 02:05
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Jeedy Jay posted:Frankly, I'm surprised he could pull himself away from his Lovenasium for long enough to even delegate his prodigal pseudo-daughter's retrieval. Hey, it's hard work being as fabulously all-powerful as he is. If he lets the decadence slip for even a few minutes, rumors might start up.
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Dec 24, 2014 04:33
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FH_Meta posted:IIRC, the only Mystic things that affect the ending you get are supposed to be things related to the Mystic weapon skills. However, because of a programming errors, they don't do this equally and in one case not correctly. The Sword is most affected by the errors and so it's basically the most important of the three. Other than some accidental complexity caused by the Mystic Sword becoming far more important that it is, getting the different endings is actually quite simple. The actual mechanics linking Asellus's Mystic Equipment to whichever ending she gets are hilariously bugged to hell and back, yes. There's a few plot flags you can choose whether or not to trigger later on that effect it, but it essentially comes down to "if you can somehow get Mystic Glove on Asellus without ever using her Mystic Sword, you can use it without repercussions".
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Dec 24, 2014 05:08
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KataraniSword posted:The actual mechanics linking Asellus's Mystic Equipment to whichever ending she gets are hilariously bugged to hell and back, yes. There's a few plot flags you can choose whether or not to trigger later on that effect it, but it essentially comes down to "if you can somehow get Mystic Glove on Asellus without ever using her Mystic Sword, you can use it without repercussions". I want to say that it's actually not too difficult to do if you know what constitutes 'do the right things in fighting Mystic bosses', but it's been way too long since I played Asellus's scenario to anything like completion to confirm. And given all the flaws in the battle system, I wouldn't put any money down on this being either bugged and me misremembering or only possible because of some bug somewhere. And yet somehow I still like SaGa Frontier.
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Dec 24, 2014 07:07
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 Welcome back! When we last saw Orlouge, he was about to send another mystic our way, and it looks like it's someone we've heard of before.   A half mystic Asellus and White Rose...I am afraid Ciato won't be good enough Are you going?I exist only to serve you, Lord. Besides, White Rose, she's my sister princess. I don't understand why she's disobeying you.No one's stopping you. Go Lion.Well then, this should be interesting. Anyway,we do our usual fight one battle after beating the Green Sage and then we fly over to Devin and go to the shrine.   Who are you.  They say you're the bravest princess in Facinaturu.Princess White Rose. I've heard of you as well. They say you're the kindest princess in the region. Can your kindness stop a sword? Get ready!! Battle 3 So Princess Lion. Depending on how you're playing Asellus's tale she'll either be a cakewalk or really hard. If you're playing this normally, you'll probably be much tougher than us when you encounter her. She doesn't have much hp so she'll go down pretty quickly.  Sadly we fall into the second category. While a stronger team would laugh off this opening Wheel Slash, here it wipes out everyone but Thunder and White Rose. For us, this fight is basically at the mercy of Princess Lion's AI.  Yup, lets try that again.  While this fight is difficult, it is also one of the best places to show off the other special trait of the Asura.  If you get hit with a close range physical when using the Asura special attack there's a change you'll counter with AsuraRevenge which as you can see does loads of damage. What makes it unique is that it will trigger even if the attack killed you.  In case you were wondering just how overmatched we are, Gen sparks an endgame Sword Skill here. Unfortunately, his sword is garbage so it doesn't do much.  As far as Princess Lion's attacks, we've already seen wheel slash which is absolutely fatal to us but she still has some other sword skills. If she wants someone absolutely dead she'll smash them with Heaven/Hell like she did here. She can also use Smash and Hard Slash which are less dangerous but will still one shot everyone aside from Thunder.  Sadly this attempt would not work out for us either.  Oh and by the way be careful if you're using your own close range physical attacks, because she has Kasumi.  And it hurts a hell of a lot.  Fortunately, the attempt after would be successful. We started off getting some pretty strong combos.  The last two attacks Princess Lion can use are Ice and Fire Breath. After Wheel Slash these two are the worst attacks we'll see because they hit multiple people. At this point I thought I was screwed because it was down to just Gen and White Rose.  But credit to Gen, in the turn before this one, he blocked a Smash attack that would have killed him and allowed me to get both Asellus and Rouge back on their feet.  And then we manage to revive Gen before Princess Lion gets a turn and Rouge finishes her off with a final Vermillion Sand.  Sister Lion.Lady Asellus, take care of my sister.Wait. Lord Orlouge will punish you if you let us escape. Princess Lion...She was a brave one.Yes. Thank you Lady Asellus.For what?So it seems that Princess Lion has also come around to our side. It's too bad she couldn't join us.  Gina also gives us a bit more exposition. and a bit of a hint as to who we'll be meeting next.  And we get some pretty revealing concept art. This makes me believe that they didn't edit Mesarthim's art because if so they would have definitely changed Princess Lion's. Anyway, I figure now's as good a time as any to run through Sei's Tomb.  And look who we have here.  Relax, I am not here to take you back to Facinaturu. I was asked by Rastaban to protect you. Ciato is coming to fight you this time.I don't need any help.Ciato got Rastaban.Did Rastaban vanish?Fortunately, he's still alive. But, Ciato grew even stronger by absorbing Rastaban's mystic energy. I wouldn't have come all this way unless Rastaban requested it.Hmm. That's interesting. Anyway, with that done Illdon joins us. He's a solid but bland mystic character. We'll use him eventually but for now we still have one more boss to beat.  We clear out Sei's tomb while we're here. It's fairly uneventful. As you can see, Asellus sparks CrossDeflect, a cool looking but terrible skill becuase you have to manually try to use it unlike regular deflect. Our team does get a bit more goodies though with White Rose absorbing a Dead Knight into her Mystic Sword and Gen getting the Murakumo so he actually has a decent sword for Triple Thrusting.  Then we head over to the Yorkland Swamp and bump into Ciato. Also I love encountering one of the Asellus bosses in the Yorkland Swamp because all of the reptile enemy sprites become visible during the cutscene and it looks really goofy.  with Orlouge's blood will make my power unstoppable. Anyway, we have to fight Ciato and he is a chump. Even without the new items and absorbs from Sei's tomb we could have beaten him.   His attacks will still one shot most of our party, but with her new absorbs White Rose is really fast (and also more than doubled her Tiger Ramage damage) so she can just patch up whoever got hit last turn and all of his attacks are single target.  And many of them are blockable to boot.  In the end, Asellus finishes him off with the Asura which seems pretty fitting.  And down he goes. Also it's kind of important that Ciato has a death animation. Princess Lion just sort of froze in place when we beat her.  It's proof that you're a better mystic than he is. Your power made him vanish. This is the death of a powerful mystic.Is that why everyone fears Orlouge? Because he can make others vanish? A mystic's life is long. That's why they fear death so much.I also have the power to... With that all the geckos disappear back into hiding. Next time things will take a turn for the worse for Lady Asellus.
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Jan 5, 2015 17:00
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For some reason I completely forgot the Ciato fight even existed. That's how unimpressive he is after Princess Lion.
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Jan 5, 2015 17:23
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Lion's a pretty serious roadblock for a first-time Asellus player, but compared to her Ciato's such a chump it isn't funny.
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Jan 5, 2015 17:54
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Funny that. I distinctly remembered it as Ciato coming before Lion. I guess my childhood mind construed that since Lion had been a tougher fight, that she must have therefore come afterward. Also, I kept calling him the White Knight, following the color-coded Red/Blue/Green Knight motif.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:26
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I've heard that it's the Princess Lion fight which unlocks a certain recruitment. Mesarthim again. Are you going to try that now, or wait until the plot settles down a bit?
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Jan 5, 2015 21:32
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Derek Barona posted:Lion's a pretty serious roadblock for a first-time Asellus player, but compared to her Ciato's such a chump it isn't funny. I mean it's kinda funny. Although Illdon did mention that she was a great warrior before she became a mystic so it makes sense. Edit: Also, Princess Lion's Kasumi is another example of the huge difference between human and monster specific skills when it comes to damage. Human specific skills like Kasumi are pretty rare on enemies and when an enemy does have one they're extremely dangerous. In particular, outside of enemy combos I believe this is the second time in the LP we've seen a party member hit with quad digit damage. The only other time was Lute's final boss's ultimate attack. buddychrist10 fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jan 6, 2015 |
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Jan 6, 2015 15:46
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Is it me or does Princess Lion's sprite look a lot like Samus Aran?
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Jan 8, 2015 18:00
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If anybody likes Theatrhythm Curtain Call, the 3DS Final Fantasy rhythm game, a set of DLC just released that includes T260G's final boss theme as a battle song. Pretty neat stuff. edit: and the battles take place in the final boss chamber with jerky PS1 animation intact! John Lee fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 00:43
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It also features the scrolling NO FUTURE text. It's pretty great all around.
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Jan 9, 2015 02:43
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Hell YES, Lion Princess!  These fights are one of the reasons I really liked Asellus's chapter. The music certainly helped. Glazius posted:Is it me or does Princess Lion's sprite look a lot like Samus Aran? I'd say it's mostly you, but there are some elements in common - her sprite has yellow and red colors, she's wearing a facemask, and her idle sprite has that "dynamic" pose.
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Jan 9, 2015 03:45
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John Lee posted:If anybody likes Theatrhythm Curtain Call, the 3DS Final Fantasy rhythm game, a set of DLC just released that includes T260G's final boss theme as a battle song. Pretty neat stuff. I cannot find this on Youtube right now. This makes me extremely sad.
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Jan 9, 2015 04:39
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 Welcome back! I figure that Asellus and White Rose deserve a bit of a break after fighting all those mystics so let's head over to the scenic Gardens of Kyo.   This doesn't seem good. Disobedient infidels! Continue to wander futilely in this eternal damnation!This is Lord Orlouge's Labyrinth of darkness. No one leaves without making a sacrifice. So the Labyrinth is a pain in the rear end that's more time consuming than anything else. It's basically a teleporter maze.  Just pick a door and start wandering around. It's not so massive that you can't get to the exit through trial and error. Also the doors go both ways so if you take a door and end up somewhere you didn't want to you can just go back through it.   There are enemies behind some of the doors but they're not too difficult. Aside from that there are no monsters wandering around.  Except for this guy.  What are you a retard? There is nothing to do in this stinking place....Don't get mad. One of these doors is the exit.Why don't you use it? The Red Turnip isn't lying here. Once you get to this room you're really close. That's about the only useful thing the Red Turnip will end up doing though.  And this door here is the one we want.    But as White Rose said before not without making a sacrifice. Melody - A Tune What are you talking about?This is my penalty for disobeying my Lord. Farewell, Lady Asellus.Wait, White Rose...Rosssssse....Lady Asellus, live in freedom. You're free.Ahhhhh.The screen fades to black here. Asellus is not taking the loss of White Rose well. White Rose. White Rose...I'm afraid she's done. More time passes and this time the turnip tries to talk to Asellus.  I guess I owe you. I'll go with you.You're my substitute for White Rose? Ha, ha, ha.Heh, heh, heh. Another fade out and finally Zozma shows up to try and console Asellus.  Guess she is not as tough as she seems. I wonder why White Rose favors her so?White Rose's gone...  ...Yes, as a sister and a friend.Then say it out loud!That's wrong. After all, I'm still a woman. Even after becoming a half-mystic.You humans have strange customs.  She meant I should live free from Orlouge... Where are we going?Wherever. We can't just sit here. Unfortunately White Rose is permanently gone from our party. However, unlike Riki's quest which handled removing a crucial party member in about the worst way, Asellus's quest does a pretty good job of handling it. You immediately get Zozma who has some neat advantages over White Rose and the game doesn't take White Rose away at the very end of the game where you can't build up a new character.  Also don't worry about our other party members. Can't you learn to act like a real mystic?Illdon!Decide for yourself what you're going to do from now on. I'll escort you a little longer.Because all you have to do is leave and re-enter and Illdon will show up again along with everyone else.  However, we're not going to just sit there and let White Rose be sealed away forever. We're going to whoop Orlouge's rear end and to do that we need some more allies. Who are you? Why do you know so much about mystics? Is it really you? Are you Princess Rei? I guess you heard of me in Facinaturu? I regret not being able to stop Orlouge from creating a half mystic. I can help you if you want. First we pick up Rei in Devin. Then we head back over to Owmi for Mesarthim. Also we are technically in Asellus's endgame territory. Our pilot friend will take us back into Facinaturu when we're ready.   We zip on through the basement and make the Devil Squid look like a chump with our much improved party.   And finally add Mesarthim to our party of mystics.  Let's take a look at some of our new characters. Zozma's pretty great, able to go for either a magic or physical build with equal competency. Of course he still has his very nice evil magic too.  Illdon is the physical mystic. He has high stats all around but aside from that no special abilities.  Rei's stats are kind of garbage. She's got solid magic stats but her physical stats are terrible. Her LP is irritatingly low too. Rei's special ability is mirage magic. The spells in mirage magic are all identical to one of the versions of Phantasm Shot. The difference is that mirage magic lets you pick which one to summon. Also they're more expensive so they'll do a bit more damage. With Rei's high charm stat she can inflict the attached status effect pretty consistently.  However Asellus has had a rough day so we'll let her take a day off in the really nice Owmi Inn.  Then we'll head over to Luminous and get light magic for most of the team.  Illdon however goes for Shadow.  Finally I think Asellus deserves a drink so we're doing the grail quest.  Unfortunately, Asellus is one of those characters whose dialogue doesn't change as she drinks more.   There are some scary moments in the swamp as Mesarthim gets charmed multiple times. Fortunately, she didn't blast everyone with Maelstrom.  Asellus gets charmed in one of the fights and hits someone with a mystic glove. Fortunately, you have to actually absorb something to dictate which ending you get so an unlucky charm can't screw you out of the ending you want.  Rei is pretty vital in these fights. Her Reaper spell's instant death is incredibly accurate against these Trisaurs.  And we make it through to the grail shrine.  One the way back we bump up an encounter rank and start encountering Genbus. Our mystics will greatly appreciate the absorbs.  Asellus even gets in on the absorbing action. Due to a programming error though, absorbing something into the Mystic Glove has no bearing on which ending you get. Basically the way Asellus's mystic form works is that the first time you use a mystic weapon in a fight Asellus will turn into her mystic form. In her mystic form she will gain the stat bonuses provided from all the monsters she has absorbed into her mystic weapons even if the skill for them isn't equipped. This makes Asellus one of the most powerful characters in the game as she can focus entirely on absorbing for stats while relying on sparked skills for damage. If you have 3 suzakus absorbed that's essentially a free +60 to all stats when transformed. The only disadvantage is that if you transform into mystic form you can only gain HP, JP, WP, and charm after that fight and you might not be able to spark skills when transformed.  We grind a bit more and heal up. Next time we'll tackle a few more sidequests.
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Jan 20, 2015 20:44
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I think this is where I stopped on Aselus's quest. I'm excited to see what I missed.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:46
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For curiosity's sake Dude, do you have a set ending you're shooting for, or did you plan on showing all of them off?
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Jan 21, 2015 03:41
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Here's a question worth thinking about: Was White Rose's sacrifice her way of choosing Asellus over Orlouge, her way of punishing herself for betraying Orlouge, or her way of running away from the choice?
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Jan 21, 2015 05:16
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MightyPretenders posted:Here's a question worth thinking about : I like to think it was the first one. She would've gone back to Orlogue ages ago if the second choice had more merit. There may have been a bit of the third choice in the decision too, but since Orlogue outright said he wanted to keep Asellus there forever, and a sacrifice is needed to escape anyway, it can still be seen as a defiance of his wishes, so first choice again.
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Jan 21, 2015 05:26
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MightyPretenders posted:Here's a question worth thinking about : Probably a bit of all three. But my money on the running away part. Both Asellus and Orlouge have the power of the charm lord. My take on that power is that your are so charming that can make anyone they want fall in love with them. White rose is a victim of both of their powers. She loves both of them, probably equally. And she know the only way this will end is if one kills the other. I don't think she could choice which person she want to help kill. So she ran away.
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Jan 21, 2015 05:28
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White Rose was tasked with looking after Asellus by Orlouge. She was carrying out his orders while simultaneously defying him, because Asellus wouldn't let her go back with the Sages. I vote B. She punished herself in the only way that could fulfill both conflicting obligations.
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Jan 21, 2015 05:29
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I think it was the first and second. While White Rose loves both, she probably also realizes that Orlouge is a terrible person and used that as a factor to pick Asellus. Asellus has been a bit rude at times, but for the most part hasn't done anything really wrong and doesn't seem to have full control over her power so she can't use it to coerce people into loving her the way Orlouge is. I don't think she was really running away by sacrificing herself either since staying in the Labyrinth isn't going to accomplish anything. As far as endings go, right now it's still open but I'll probably succumb to the siren call of giving Asellus God-stats before the run is over. The half and full mystic endings will still both be easy to get, but I'll probably just find a youtube video for the human ending.
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Jan 21, 2015 05:40
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Zozma telling Asellus to just get out of the closet already was pretty great though.
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Jan 21, 2015 06:34
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Can other Mystics choose not to use absorbed skills but give up the stat boost? And are there any monsters where that really makes a difference?
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Jan 22, 2015 03:06
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Glazius posted:Can other Mystics choose not to use absorbed skills but give up the stat boost? And are there any monsters where that really makes a difference? I'm not quite sure what you're asking. If you're wondering if you can somehow remove monsters from mystic weapons and leave them blank, I don't believe there's a way to do that. Once you absorb something, you're stuck with it until you absorb something else. They also can't de-equip their mystic weapons, because they're locked on slots 5-7, and Mystics can only customize their first four slots, so the stat boosts are always "on" for them. As mechanics are concerned for Asellus though, she's a Human that transforms into a Mystic when you use a mystic weapon, so all 8 skill slots are fully customizable, with the mystic weapons considered as "Special" skills (in fact, I believe she's the only Human who has skills of that class) that she can equip and remove like any other skill. The only downside to this is that since she only gets the stat boosts when she activates MysticalChange, you can't see the effect that absorbed monsters have on her stats out of battle like with other mystics.
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Jan 22, 2015 05:18
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Does that turnip end up in the extended works? Does anything goofy happen with him?
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Jan 22, 2015 05:24
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