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a cartoon duck posted:Zozma telling Asellus to just get out of the closet already was pretty great though. I like the fact that none of the mystics seem off-put or look down on it. They're just very matter-of-fact about it. And while one could account for White Rose's affection towards Asellus as the Orlouge mojo in her blood working it's magic, it certainly doesn't account for Asellus' reciprocal feelings towards White Rose.
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Jan 27, 2015 04:39
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:I like the fact that none of the mystics seem off-put or look down on it. They're just very matter-of-fact about it. They don't seem to give a poo poo about gender in general really. Remember, Asellus is the Prince of Facinaturu.
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Jan 27, 2015 05:35
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SaGa Frontier was kind of progressive in that regard, and nobody noticed because of the translation and the fact that everyone picked Riki first and proceeded to quit after 10 minutes. 
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Jan 27, 2015 05:40
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Stroth posted:They don't seem to give a poo poo about gender in general really. Remember, Asellus is the Prince of Facinaturu. Exactly. They really couldn't care less about her silly human sex/gender hangups.
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Jan 27, 2015 06:21
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:I like the fact that none of the mystics seem off-put or look down on it. They're just very matter-of-fact about it. To steal an old friends quote about Utena: "They're trisexual. They'll try anything sexual." Seriously, if someone told me the Mystics in Asellus' story were based off the characters from Utena, I don't think I would doubt them. Even Asellus has the whole "girl who is/wants to be a prince" thing going on. Why do I get the feeling this has been brought up already in this thread?
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Jan 27, 2015 06:42
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Randalor posted:To steal an old friends quote about Utena: "They're trisexual. They'll try anything sexual." Seriously, if someone told me the Mystics in Asellus' story were based off the characters from Utena, I don't think I would doubt them. Even Asellus has the whole "girl who is/wants to be a prince" thing going on. Why do I get the feeling this has been brought up already in this thread? That because they are all sexy immortals who are bored. They are willing to go to sleep for decades in hopes that something interesting will happen. After a while, you are just going to bone everything in sight. You know like Zeus.
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Jan 27, 2015 07:01
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Unless you're one of Orlogue's Arch-Princesses. Then you're put to sleep so you don't get the bright idea of drinking Orloge's blood and taking some of his power.
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Jan 27, 2015 15:48
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Randalor posted:To steal an old friends quote about Utena: "They're trisexual. They'll try anything sexual." Seriously, if someone told me the Mystics in Asellus' story were based off the characters from Utena, I don't think I would doubt them. Even Asellus has the whole "girl who is/wants to be a prince" thing going on. Why do I get the feeling this has been brought up already in this thread? It's possible, but it'd be a very tight window. Both this and Utena came out the same year.
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Jan 28, 2015 17:12
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David Bowie was quoted being a trisexual in 1982ish. I would prefer to imagine this whole scenario is just one big Bowie tribute. I mean who else would be the immortal charm lord?
Shwqa fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 22:16
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Shwqa posted:David Bowie was quoted being a trisexual in 1982ish. I would prefer to imagine this whole scenario is just one big Bowie tribute. I mean who else would be the immortal charm lord?  ...Seems about right.
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Jan 29, 2015 00:09
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So Asellus' quest is basically the Trials and Tribulations of Being David Bowie? I can get behind that.
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Jan 29, 2015 04:45
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Alkarl posted:So Asellus' quest is basically the Trials and Tribulations of Being David Bowie? I can get behind that. More like 'Being David Bowie's Adopted Daughter by Blood.' I can still get behind it. The affection Asellus likely feels to White Rose is pretty oblique, there's plenty of evidence to suggest it being: a. Her own interests, she simply never met anyone like White Rose before. b. White Rose's Mystic Charm working on Asellus. c. A weird side effect of Orlouge's Charm Lord Blood within her. Not only does it attract other gals to her but it also makes her open to such attractions. That's part of why I really like Saga Frontier's complete stories. There's enough evidence around that lots of people can pick something and have it make sense.
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Jan 29, 2015 05:17
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Kinda wish there was a recent remake with the full scenarios and various gameplay fixes.
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Jan 29, 2015 13:57
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EponymousMrYar posted:More like 'Being David Bowie's Adopted Daughter by Blood.' I just viewed it as the creators watched “Interview with the Vampire”, and decided that their not-vampires should act the same. I seem to recall other mythos where vampire sexuality is gender indifferent.
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Jan 29, 2015 20:22
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Pretty sure it has more to do with culture than any particular form of media. At the risk of sounding all weeaboo about it, Japan never really had many hangups about sex/gender until Western influence came along.
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Jan 29, 2015 20:48
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The "western influence" certainly happened pre 1999 so... I'm not sure what you are saying here. East Asia has problems with homosexuality. It is less cross burning / gay bashing and more deny it exists period / deep shame. Game is progressive for a 90s era RPG. Yay. Dunno what else to say but that.
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Jan 29, 2015 23:16
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My impression has been that it's seen as a sort of... Phase, something kids do before they properly knuckle down and have a family like good citizens. Which does lend itself to denying it exists, with lots of getting married then spending all your free time with same-sex lovers. But this is based on third hand knowledge and may not be the majority attitude on the matter. It definitely fits with the Get Out If The Closet speech though.
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Jan 29, 2015 23:44
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Ryushikaze posted:It's possible, but it'd be a very tight window. Both this and Utena came out the same year. The Utena manga came out in 96, this game came out in 97 (98 in North America).
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Jan 30, 2015 00:02
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Kulkasha posted:Kinda wish there was a recent remake with the full scenarios and various gameplay fixes. Biggest issue with that idea is that you'd have to entirely redo Riki's scenario to make it something less sadistic. Aside from Lute, the scenarios are about as completed as they should be. Fuse's scenario aside  The only big chunk of content that got cut to the quick is the bit in Asellus' scenario that was supposed to happen at the Bio-lab in shrike. Think it was slated to take place after you get separated from White Rose, but before the next major plot points.
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Jan 30, 2015 03:02
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Shwqa posted:David Bowie was quoted being a trisexual in 1982ish. I would prefer to imagine this whole scenario is just one big Bowie tribute. I mean who else would be the immortal charm lord? Consider that the Emperor in FF2 is more or less literally Jareth, I think it's pretty safe to say that either Akitoshi Kawazu is a Bowie fan or Amano rambled at length to him about Bowie. Either way, Ziggy Stardust would definitely be something that had an influence on the mind behind SaGa .
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Jan 30, 2015 03:54
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:Pretty sure it has more to do with culture than any particular form of media. At the risk of sounding all weeaboo about it, Japan never really had many hangups about sex/gender until Western influence came along. If modern east Asian prejudice against homosexuality indeed did come from westerners, it came quite a long time ago. Modern east Asian societies have much less tolerance for gays and lesbians than the US and most of west Europe. Certainly Edo period Japan had no particular problems with it, nor did China in periods before there was significant direct contact with Europeans. As far as I'm aware, there's no distinct evidence of causation in that white people showed up and told them it was bad to be gay and they believed it. I personally like to imagine that that the prejudice came from the west because the people who are most attached to it are also typically very anti-western. However, it is my strong belief that reactionary intolerance is entirely independent of culture. I get really tired of arguing with people that such and such a belief is not a part of your ancient traditions that foreigners could never possibly understand; that my grandparent's generation believed exactly the same thing and you're just backwards. And your grand kids will almost certainly tell you so. At any rate, I'm not super up-to-date on Japanese media, but I think open recognition of homosexuality as something that's not negative and also not a caricature would be rather progressive even today, let along in the late 90s.
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Jan 30, 2015 12:53
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 Welcome back, as I mentioned in the last update we need to get a bit stronger before we're ready to whoop Orlouge's rear end. Let's get right on that shall we?  We once again make a quick run through of the Shingrow abandoned ship ruins. Since Asellus can't recruit any mechs the equipment is very mediocre, but it sells for a lot and the regular money bag pick ups are also handy.  And we still manage to profit in other ways.  Then it's off to Baccarat to do the gold card quest. Interestingly enough, I don't think the pilot who takes you out of Facinaturu ever takes White Rose's Gold Ingots. I already had 3 in my inventory before I started the quest and I can't think of anyplace else that I could have picked them up.  Asellus gets a unique bit of dialogue when Emelia asks to join, but we let her join anyway.  Finally a quick run through the caves gets us the card.  Similarly, we breeze on through Wakatu and once again get pretty lucky with the timing on the Saber Card roulette.  Our final pit stop is in Kyo where we pick up Mind Magic for Asellus. Mystics can't get the gift for it so it's not useful for them.  Asellus and Gen beat their fights to get the gift with little trouble.  Perhaps third time is the charm for Lute to beat the Lich?  No. Although the way he died was kind of funny. The Lich charmed Lute and he Gale Slashed himself. This kinda makes the Gale Slash animation freak out. Lute throws the wind blade at nothing in particular then lands on the ground and instantly dies.  The main action in this update is going to take place in the Magic Kingdom, and unfortunately we will have bid goodbye to our good friend Rouge.  It's too bad almost no one ever visits Magic Kingdom because of Rouge because they have some cool shops. In particular the Rune Sword is extremely powerful and can be used to buff your attack power further.  There's also some neat looking areas like this church.  However, the main reason we came here is to visit the dungeon between these two rows of trees.  This is Furdo's workspace, a dungeon not many people visit because of the aforementioned issue with Rouge as well as being rather difficult to find once you get to the Magic Kingdom.  When you first enter the dungeon there are no active enemies. Only these suspicious looking statues.  It does have some neat lighting effects though.  There's also some treasure chests lying around but once again, we can't interact with them yet.  This room will be important in just a bit, but first we need to get down to the lower level.  It's a shame this dungeon is so easily missed beacuase it's really pretty.   Take a right in the room with the bugs and you end up on this stage with a petrified dragon.   Head out the bottom of the stage and you reach the fairy room, this time on the bottom floor. If you interact with big pillar all of the fairies will become unpetrified and fly off.  If you head back to the earlier rooms there will now be a fairy in each. They will teleport around depetrifying things.  The most dangerous encounters are with the giants which put us against these Ettins. All of the other enemies are relatively standard.  If you bump into a fairy it will trigger a fight and the fairy will disappear from the room. If you do this and haven't gotten all the treasure just go back and touch the pillar again and the fairy will respawn.  Although despite having impressive names like "Glow Robe" the treasure here is pretty mediocre. The unicorn tear is probably the best and all it does is protect against Petrify.   If you're feeling ballsy you can try fighting the dragon down on the stage.  Although don't be surprised if he's not as intimidating as his out of battle sprite suggests. I think this DragonPup did get a slight HP boost though.  It can be a bit difficult to figure out where to go to reach the end of the dungeon. With the fairies gone we can return back to their room and go up these stairs here.  The stairs lead us here. I'm not exactly sure what this area is supposed to be. It doesn't really fit in with the whole abandoned church/opera house aesthetic they were going for.  The weird area has two exits. Here which obviously doesn't go anywhere...  And here up in the nosebleeds.   Inside we find the man of the house Furdo. I'm not sure what he's supposed to be. Some sort of cat mystic maybe? Furdo to be honest isn't that hard.   So of course the first thing I do is ram my best healer into his Glass Shield to get her knocked out.  But we can give as good as we get.   Furdo's big thing is that he loves to use Stone Gas to try and petrify our team. Unfortunately for him the petrification never connects.   Double unfortunately for Furdo is that he's classified as a lower class mystic so his damage is quartered against everyone except for Mesarthim.   Aside from the Glass Shield, I don't think he ever did more than a 100 damage to anyone and this Level 3 combo takes him out.  One interesting thing about this fight is that Asellus can receive a piece of mystic equipment from Furdo if she missed out on any. Originally, Furdo was supposed to have a bit of plot with Asellus and White Rose. However, aside from Fuse's quest which was cut entirely, Asellus's quest has the most cut content. I'll cover it in a bonus update once we're done with the main quest.  Unfortunately for us that just means that Furdo disappears after we beat him without saying anything or dropping an item as a reward. So there's nothing left for us to do but leave. Next time we'll do one more sidequest as well as finish up some odds and ends before we go back to Chateau Aigulle to face Orlouge.
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Jan 30, 2015 16:49
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quote:In particular the Rune Sword is extremely powerful and can be used to buff your attack power further. It and other spellcast items also allows shenanigans, if you have a mind for it. I forget if I remember it exactly right but; When you take magic of a school, the other magic school gets thrown out, all spells unlearned. But it cannot take the gift from you. And item spells(Such as the Runesword) still count for sparking other spells in that school if you have the gift. So you can(Following this example to it's end) have some Tarot and still potentially have full Rune magic. How the hell I still remember this, I don't know.
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Jan 30, 2015 17:24
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MartianAgitator posted:The Utena manga came out in 96, this game came out in 97 (98 in North America). Fair point. I forgot the manga came out a year earlier. It's still think it's a bit of a stretch SF to have copied Utena, since the themes of how Utena and this plot are most similar- confused sexuality of the main character to the rose themed heroine are mostly found later in the series, which would have been very late in development time. Granted, it's also likely that Assellus's quest was the last one they were adding content to, so it is possible, I just think the similarities are a nifty but not intentional coincidence.
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Jan 31, 2015 00:21
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I want to say that there were a few oddities with the whole Higher/Lower mystic flags, but there were enough that I know that I'd miss or misremember several of them. Oh, and one's spoiler for the end of this quest, but if that surprises you, I don't know what to say. And this is strange because I remember about how many times Shining Punch gets checked to see if it sparks without looking.
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Jan 31, 2015 01:01
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Bloodly posted:It and other spellcast items also allows shenanigans, if you have a mind for it. I forget if I remember it exactly right but; When you take magic of a school, the other magic school gets thrown out, all spells unlearned. But it cannot take the gift from you. And item spells(Such as the Runesword) still count for sparking other spells in that school if you have the gift. So you can(Following this example to it's end) have some Tarot and still potentially have full Rune magic. That's the reason I'm so confident that using her Mystic magic doesn't lock Asellus out of her "reject your cool Mystic stuff" ending - I did the same trick by exploiting the shield that allows you to cast a Mystic spell after learning a bunch of Force magic.
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Jan 31, 2015 02:16
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 I had no idea that dungeon even existed.
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Jan 31, 2015 03:05
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For some reason, I never get tired of seeing Lute get his poo poo kicked in by a Lich in his mind.
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Jan 31, 2015 09:33
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At least you can head back to Luminous and grab Rouge again afterward. I usually come here to grab him a Runesword for the trick mentioned earlier. A similar trick can be done with Mystic/Realm magic and the PurpleEye. Implosion is pretty nice.
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Feb 1, 2015 01:20
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Jeedy Jay posted:That's the reason I'm so confident that using her Mystic magic doesn't lock Asellus out of her "reject your cool Mystic stuff" ending - I did the same trick by exploiting the shield that allows you to cast a Mystic spell after learning a bunch of Force magic. Mystic magic isn't the problem, it's the mystic equipment that triggers the endings. Except for the Mystic Glove, which is bugged and can be used with no drawbacks whatsoever.
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Feb 1, 2015 05:44
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Oh, so THAT's the deal with the mansion and how to actually get stuff done in it. I knew it existed and in fact visited it with T260G, Red and Asellus (I usually didn't pick up Rouge 'cause I favored particular parties for those 3) and I never figured out to interact with that statue to get things going. I thought it was a character/timer trigger or something. Fortunately it doesn't seem like I missed much.
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Feb 1, 2015 10:17
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Dareon posted:
Yeah holy poo poo, I've cleared this game with every character a few times and NEVER knew this place existed. Weird.
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Feb 1, 2015 17:45
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I used to love this game when I was younger. I also was really into the Romancing Saga 3 translation that came out a little later after Saga Frontiers NA release. I kinda wanna go back and play them again but I think I might be impatient with older console games after being spoiled by modern games.
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Feb 1, 2015 20:44
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I think being able to save anywhere helps make SaGa Frontier a very playable game today. I still play through a character or two once a year or so.
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Feb 2, 2015 04:36
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Can we pick Rouge up again, or is he gone for good?
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Feb 2, 2015 08:30
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Glazius posted:Can we pick Rouge up again, or is he gone for good? Whenever Rouge leaves your party, he goes back to chilling in Luminous, where he always does. You can pick him up whenever with no issues.
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Feb 2, 2015 08:37
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You can pick Rouge right back up where you first found him. Probably the only party member in the whole game you can actually remove and add to the party at will. Not that it really matters. Also, wasn't he originally intended to be moving around realms in early design?
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Feb 2, 2015 08:38
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:You can pick Rouge right back up where you first found him. Probably the only party member in the whole game you can actually remove and add to the party at will. Not that it really matters. Between Luminous and Devon, basically.
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Feb 2, 2015 23:13
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Ryushikaze posted:Between Luminous and Devon, basically. He actually kinda does. If you turn down his offer to join (or simply talk to him as non-magic-getting Riki and T260G, who he won't join), he'll warp from one to the other, and you can go talk to him there and pick him up if you've changed your mind.
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Feb 3, 2015 06:17
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Certainly Edo period Japan had no particular problems with it, nor did China in periods before there was significant direct contact with Europeans. Well, no problem with it so long as you produced children to ensure the family name lived on. And didn't discuss about your "indiscretions" in public. It was the same with heterosexual relationships, really. Marriage was for procreation; for everything else, that's what mistresses and brothels were for.
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Feb 12, 2015 22:25
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