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MizPiz
May 29, 2013


http://trib.com/news/local/casper/n...3df259b121.html

In case you haven't heard, the leader of the Casper, Wyoming branch of the NAACP has organized a meeting with the leaders of the local Klan group(s). This meeting is meant to address a recent rise of hate crimes towards African Americans and the distribution of Klan recruitment material in Casper and the surrounding areas. Apparently, the higher ups at the NAACP aren't too thrilled with the idea, saying there shouldn't be this sort of discussion with hate groups, more likely than not because they think it'll be wasted effort. While they have a point, simply organizing a meeting like this puts pressure on both the Klan and other "white civil rights" groups to actually show they aren't just bitter, racist shitbags. Not to mention that as bad as the KKK is/was, denying them a chance to actually speak their mind (without being ignored) is infinitely more detrimental than anything that could come from the meeting.

Also, I can't help but feel that by agreeing to this meeting, the KKK has proven itself to be more open-minded and rational than the GOP as a whole.

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Captain Mog
Jun 17, 2011


Did all three black people in Wyoming attend, I wonder? How progressive of those KKK members!

A Fancy 400 lbs
Jul 23, 2008



Yup.


Odds that the KKK just uses it as an excuse to get a bunch of black people in the same room and attack them? I'm thinking pretty high.

Axetrain
Sep 14, 2007

Cutting me off at every turn

The KKK will just use this as an excuse to get attention while spouting their hateful garbage, it's a much better idea to just ignore them and let the march of time and public opinion grind them down.

Ghostsauce
Jun 4, 2005

scared you didnt i lmbo

This is a terrible idea and at best gives them attention they shouldn't get and at worst legitimizes them as a policy group.

Yaldabaoth
Oct 9, 2012
Who do I have to piss off to get a red title?

To me, stuff like this always comes off as an english gentleman trying to have a civil discussion with a crocodile to convince it not to eat him.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005

Ummmm....

MizPiz posted:

While they have a point, simply organizing a meeting like this puts pressure on both the Klan and other "white civil rights" groups to actually show they aren't just bitter, racist shitbags.

...

Also, I can't help but feel that by agreeing to this meeting, the KKK has proven itself to be more open-minded and rational than the GOP as a whole.

To be perfectly clear the KKK are openly bitter racist shitbags and completely unapologetic about it and the GOP as a whole depends on openly unapologetic racist shitbags being reliable turnout to win elections.

There seriously is not any kind of misunderstanding to be resolved by polite discourse between the KKK and the NAACP and I'm really kind of astonished that you are unaware of that.

Captain Mog
Jun 17, 2011


I have a dumb question that I've always wondered and this is as good a place as any to ask it: does the KKK have the constitutional right to forbid blacks from joining? This is hypothetical, of course.

Griff Lee
Sep 4, 2011

"Mega Lolz"


God, it must be a rough time for the Aryans. Even the Klan is (casually) mixing nowadays!

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

robot whores
come before
a cure for
cancer




Captain Mog posted:

I have a dumb question that I've always wondered and this is as good a place as any to ask it: does the KKK have the constitutional right to forbid blacks from joining? This is hypothetical, of course.
I believe that as a private social group they are permitted to set whatever criteria they want, although the Ku Klux Klambake restaurant, as a place of public accomodation, would have to permit even the non-Aryan races to use the facilities with reasonable grace.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005

Ummmm....

Captain Mog posted:

I have a dumb question that I've always wondered and this is as good a place as any to ask it: does the KKK have the constitutional right to forbid blacks from joining? This is hypothetical, of course.

Yes, absolutely, without question.

Shuffle
Feb 3, 2011

DEA Sloth!
No Fast Movements!


A town named Casper is filled with people who run around dressed like ghosts.
not surprised

angerbot
Mar 23, 2004


plob


Shuffle posted:

A town named Casper is filled with people who run around dressed like ghosts.
not surprised

Surely they're friendly.

BowieFett
Oct 21, 2008



Captain Mog posted:

I have a dumb question that I've always wondered and this is as good a place as any to ask it: does the KKK have the constitutional right to forbid blacks from joining? This is hypothetical, of course.

If country clubs can still deny membership to black people, I'm pretty sure the KKK can deny black people membership.

MizPiz
May 29, 2013


Three Olives posted:

To be perfectly clear the KKK are openly bitter racist shitbags and completely unapologetic about it and the GOP as a whole depends on openly unapologetic racist shitbags being reliable turnout to win elections.

There seriously is not any kind of misunderstanding to be resolved by polite discourse between the KKK and the NAACP and I'm really kind of astonished that you are unaware of that.

I never suggested this meeting would solve a drat thing, all I said is that this is giving the idea of "white civil rights" it's (really only) chance to be credible. At best, the idea is a purely reactionary response to changing socio-economic realities that manifested into a ethnic tribal form of belief with elements of fascism, but it's arguments are at least going to need to be brought forward before they can actually be knocked down. It's just as stupid to think that something like this will just die out if it's ignored as it is to think that this meeting will lead to a breakthrough on race relations.

Just as a minor aside, the Klan and other groups like them have been trying to make their platform more generic "far-right grassroots movement" and less about white superiority and other forms of overt racism. Of course, they're still bitter racist shitbags, but they've been changing the positions and "missions" of their groups to be more appeasing to the other bitter, racist shitbags in America, the general population.

gggiiimmmppp
Feb 15, 2004

Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

This article covers the content of the meeting: http://trib.com/news/state-and-regi...6297d25073.html

quote:

Abarr lost a Republican primary for a local race in 2002, and considered a run for Congress from Montana in 2011, but dropped out when a lack of funding and a lot of outrage pushed him to reconsider his plans. Then, he billed himself as an ex-KKK member.

“There you go again. You’re a chameleon, whatever suits you at the time,” Hamilton says.

“Well, I was between Klans at the time,” Abarr says.
Klan humor

Regalingualius
Jan 6, 2012


BowieFett posted:

If country clubs can still deny membership to black people, I'm pretty sure the KKK can deny black people membership.

Only if they know you're black. I forget where exactly I read it, but apparently a black man did indeed join the KKK relatively recently, though just as an investigative journalist or something along those lines.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Have some fun with Miku!


Legitimately confused as to how denying a bunch of white racists a chance to speak their mind is more detrimental than a bunch of white racists speaking their mind.

Very Nice Eraser
May 28, 2011


I'm not sure what the NAACP thinks the public should take away from this meeting. The KKK is an important social organization? The KKK has credibility? The KKK's opinions on social policy deserve an audience?

A rednecked acquaintance laughed during a recent discussion about the KKK and said that they're considered a bunch of throwback costumed clowns in the deep south, at the very fringe of society. He agreed that real, antisocial racism exists in these places but the people perpetuating it aren't in the KKK. The years have not been kind to the clansmen.

the black husserl
Feb 25, 2005



I'm glad to see that people are finally starting to consider the ideas of Jacob Holdt: http://www.kukluxklan.info/

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005

Ummmm....

MizPiz posted:

I never suggested this meeting would solve a drat thing, all I said is that this is giving the idea of "white civil rights" it's (really only) chance to be credible.

Then you have no idea what is going on in American politics because the KKK has been dismissed as unarguably terribly racist as gently caress to the point of not even worth discussing for years even among Republican leadership pushing racist as gently caress ideas and legislation.

Even the most racist as gently caress assholes and those trying to take advantage of them have figured out that decades ago that yelling Niger! Niger! Niger! In white cloaks is bad for their agenda and thrown the KKK under the bus for political advantage even though they believe many of the same things.

God Junior
Sep 8, 2013

Doesn't matter to me.

Viridiant posted:

Legitimately confused as to how denying a bunch of white racists a chance to speak their mind is more detrimental than a bunch of white racists speaking their mind.

If you mean detrimental to the Klan, then hear me out. By denying them a chance to speak their mind, there is no publicity involved. The Klan will not receive any attention. If they speak their mind, sure they will sound like the scumbags they are, but they have most likely reached the point of "Any publicity is good publicity."

Johnny Walker
Jun 14, 2005

I've got a home for
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Viridiant posted:

Legitimately confused as to how denying a bunch of white racists a chance to speak their mind is more detrimental than a bunch of white racists speaking their mind.
They are allowed to speak their mind and the ACLU frequently fights with them to ensure they have that right. What they don't deserve is to be validated as a real mainstream organization with social influence that should have their ridiculous beliefs and arguments seriously considered.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Have some fun with Miku!


God Junior posted:

If you mean detrimental to the Klan, then hear me out. By denying them a chance to speak their mind, there is no publicity involved. The Klan will not receive any attention. If they speak their mind, sure they will sound like the scumbags they are, but they have most likely reached the point of "Any publicity is good publicity."

Nah, I meant detrimental in that would be a bad thing for someone to do. I figured that's what the OP meant. I totally get the 'detrimental to the Klan' angle.

Edit: And yeah, as far as them having the RIGHT to speak their mind I agree. I just don't agree that it's bad to not give them a platform.

Requested_Username
Nov 27, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 43 hours!


Why does anyone pay any attention to the Klan anymore?

Oxford Comma
Jun 26, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 32 hours!


As someone who has lived in Wyoming for many, many years, I just want to say that there are probably more black people in the state than members of the KKK. Wyoming isn't a racist shithole the way Kansas or the Deep South is.

Cocksmith
Dec 28, 2012


Requested_Username posted:

Why does anyone pay any attention to the Klan anymore?

They don't.

Casimir Radon
Aug 1, 2008



Some white supremacists from the region tried to hold a rally in my city last year. 11 showed up, only to be greeted by about 200 protestors who threw snowballs at them.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005

Ummmm....

Requested_Username posted:

Why does anyone pay any attention to the Klan anymore?

Because they are an incredibly convenient and visible distraction of overt racism that can be easily denounced while still supporting racist as gently caress laws and public policy.

One Legged Cat
Aug 31, 2004

DAY I GOT COOKIE

Three Olives posted:

Because they are an incredibly convenient and visible distraction of overt racism that can be easily denounced while still supporting racist as gently caress laws and public policy.

Haha, are you kidding? The only real racists wear full klan garb everywhere in public so you know who they are!

I don't know what century you're from but here in the present we live in a civilized society.

Justin Godscock
Oct 12, 2004

Aw, son of a bitch!

Cocksmith posted:

They don't.

Seriously, the Klan is badly fragmented now with no real central structure or higher authority to co-ordinate members. It's basically just a bunch of close-knit shitsbags cut off from society who continue to latch onto a belief that has history in their local area. As mentioned as well, they are a great lightning rod for the media because the images of burning crosses and white conical hats makes a great story even though it's no longer as huge as it was back decades ago.

Debawv
Sep 8, 2008


Oxford Comma posted:

As someone who has lived in Wyoming for many, many years, I just want to say that there are probably more black people in the state than members of the KKK. Wyoming isn't a racist shithole the way Kansas or the Deep South is.

Ahhh... But you have be careful because it is full of Republicans and, as we all know and has been pointed out more than once this thread, all Republicans are poo poo rear end gently caress resists. I live in Idaho and it has the same reputation but it is little known that the people of Idaho kicked out the racists and burned down their HQ. In fact, that place is now some camp for racial unifcation. But who cares about those kinds of facts.

Cool Blue Reason
Jan 7, 2010


Requested_Username posted:

Why does anyone pay any attention to the Klan anymore?

ReTHUGlican PARTY is just a branch of the Klan so really we are forced to pay attention to them every day via corrupt news outlets such as Faux News and CNN. Thank you for your time.

Captain von Trapp
Jan 22, 2006

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.

Oxford Comma posted:

As someone who has lived in Wyoming for many, many years, I just want to say that there are probably more black people in the state than members of the KKK. Wyoming isn't a racist shithole the way Kansas or the Deep South is.

I lived in New Orleans for more than a decade. The total Klan activity I witnessed was exactly one less than the number of Klan activities in your state in this thread.

Maytag
Nov 4, 2006

it's enough that it all be filled with that majestic sadness that is the pleasure of tragedy.

What's good about letting them speak- may drive a wedge between truly hardcore racists and those less vocal who may find relatively mainstream acceptance. So the latter lose the former's support (as they aren't vocal enough about hate) while us normal folks still aren't so blind as to not identify "moderate" shitbag racists.

Divide and conquer.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009

Maybe I got time to figure out how to de-spirit a toaster.


Oxford Comma posted:

As someone who has lived in Wyoming for many, many years, I just want to say that there are probably more black people in the state than members of the KKK. Wyoming isn't a racist shithole the way Kansas or the Deep South is.

Yeah it's mostly elk, some pronghorn.

Pharmaskittle
Dec 17, 2007

EVEN IN DEATH I STILL SWERVE



Oxford Comma posted:

As someone who has lived in Wyoming for many, many years, I just want to say that there are probably more black people in the state than members of the KKK. Wyoming isn't a racist shithole the way Kansas or the Deep South is.

Some googling and math suggest that they're probably neck and neck (around 5000 each).

I dunno how you could develop much of an opinion on race living in a place as overwhelmingly white as Wyoming really, so maybe it's a pretty good place to have this.

gggiiimmmppp
Feb 15, 2004

Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

Maytag posted:

What's good about letting them speak- may drive a wedge between truly hardcore racists and those less vocal who may find relatively mainstream acceptance. So the latter lose the former's support (as they aren't vocal enough about hate) while us normal folks still aren't so blind as to not identify "moderate" shitbag racists.

Divide and conquer.

Ironically the NAACP seems to be divided on this issue

Gobblecoque
Sep 6, 2011


Oxford Comma posted:

As someone who has lived in Wyoming for many, many years, I just want to say that there are probably more black people in the state than members of the KKK.

Woah, that's a hell of a milestone. I think.

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Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004
I hate tarsiformes

Casimir Radon posted:

Some white supremacists from the region tried to hold a rally in my city last year. 11 showed up, only to be greeted by about 200 protestors who threw snowballs at them.
We had one of these in Central Florida a while back. The ratio of klansmen to cops to counter-protestors was about 1:5:100. The cops billed the organizers for the metric fuckload of OT worked in keeping the counter-marchers from caving their heads in. I don't recall exactly how big the bill was, but the racists haven't been back.

People like to think of the Deep South as crazy racist territory but the last stronghold of the Klans and other assorted Nazi shitbags is out west in Idaho and Montana.

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at Sep 10, 2013 around 03:56

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