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Lotish posted:That would have also been nice, if only so we could see what was so horrible about finishing it in the first place. Oh a demon is going to step out if we finish it? Cool, let us do that so we can kill it and move on already, it's been six years and I've got a dinner with the magistrate. Oh this is a super bad idea you say? Let me see that for myself. Oh no the demon has possessed Merrill just like you said? Well don't I feel silly now; I have two abominations for friends that changes everything! As I mentioned before, the game really fails to make Demons seem scary up to that point. My Hawke had killed one of the original Magisters, either two or three pride demons, multiple abominations, a fade spirit trapped in a thaig for thousands of years... Why would she be afraid of one single demon?
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Jul 23, 2014 07:41
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Captain Oblivious posted:Merrill had no chance in hell of ever restoring the Eluvian. Those things are hooked up to the Black City and Bioware was not prepared to reveal anything about that yet. I'm not so sure about that. The Eluvian Morrigan used and the Eluvians in The Masked Empire tell a different story. SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 07:50
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SgtSteel91 posted:The Eluvian Morrigan used and the Eluvians in The Masked Empire tell a different story. I'm so glad we got those bits of information in the main games and not in DLC or spin-off novels.
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Jul 23, 2014 07:52
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It'd be something if the player characters in Inquisition reacted not in abject fear of what a demon could do to them, but what it could do to someone who isn't a demon mass murderer. My Warden in Origins loving lied to every illegal fade alien and still managed to get them to do what he wanted before he massacred them all. I've saved everyone the game can allow me from possession and I should be laughing at even Pride spirits if they dared to act like they were anything but a joke to me. The best part was acting like I was some self serving hell lawyer. "Our agreement was for me to free you from your prison, Kitty. I never said anything about you leaving it alive." 
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Jul 23, 2014 07:58
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Alouicious posted:I'm so glad we got those bits of information in the main games and not in DLC or spin-off novels. That's dumb. There are story DLCs and there are non-story DLCs. Getting plot critical information in a "5 new hats" or "3 cool weapons" DLC would be stupid, but story DLCs are the new expansions.
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Jul 23, 2014 08:02
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Dragon Age 2 actually points that out a bit, when Merrill asks you to come along (so you can kill her if she becomes an abomination), you can say "it's a demon, there's no guarantee I'll be able to stop it", and Merrill is exasperatedly like "I've seen you kill dragons, ancient golems, OTHER demons...".
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Jul 23, 2014 08:02
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The Sharmat posted:One day he will return from exile. Well I always expected him to return on DA: I's release date, so we'll have to wait a little bit longer still  On that note, when was the last time a Bioware game was actually good after a delay, Dragon Age :Origins? Edit: vvvv Well Mass Effect 1 came out before Dragon Age, and Mass Effect 3 was delayed (but I don't generally consider it very good at all, though I know opinions vary on it) evilmiera fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 08:16
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evilmiera posted:Well I always expected him to return on DA: I's release date, so we'll have to wait a little bit longer still 100% good? None, probably. It's not actually for polish purposes that a game from a large dev like this gets delayed. It's either factor 1 bugs or release juggling. I mean, I really had fun with ME1, ME2 & ME3. I'm sure one of them was delayed at one point.
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Jul 23, 2014 08:29
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ME3 was delayed.
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Jul 23, 2014 08:33
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I've got a nagging feeling that delay is due to some infrastructure problems. I hope that's not the case, but I'm commited to not preordering or buying on launch day, so any day-one problems won't affect me.
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Jul 23, 2014 08:33
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Doctor Spaceman posted:ME3 was delayed. And the most important aspects of the game, the gameplay, were by far the most superb of the series.
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Jul 23, 2014 08:34
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It's original launch date had like 7 other games of varying degrees of hype being released. I'm just guessing they moved it a month away so they wouldn't have to deal with that.
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Jul 23, 2014 08:37
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Let's list all the games that were delayed.
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Jul 23, 2014 08:39
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Drifter posted:100% good? None, probably. It's not actually for polish purposes that a game from a large dev like this gets delayed. It's either factor 1 bugs or release juggling. Yeah I guess they weren't comfortable releasing on the same day as Alien: Isolation and/or Shadows of Mordor.
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Jul 23, 2014 08:46
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Dan Didio posted:Let's list all the games that were delayed.  This is a joke, for the record. 
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Jul 23, 2014 09:06
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Generic American posted:Dragon Age: Inquisition was delayed. You know what else was delayed? Duke Nukem Forever. Now, I'm not saying Inquisition is ~totally~ going to be Duke Nukem Forever... but that's exactly what I'm saying. One of those games lets you carry around a lump of poo poo, the other will let you romance it.
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Jul 23, 2014 09:13
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Torrannor posted:That's dumb. There are story DLCs and there are non-story DLCs. Getting plot critical information in a "5 new hats" or "3 cool weapons" DLC would be stupid, but story DLCs are the new expansions. Story DLCs are really fuckin stupid unless they're used to tell side-stories that are either self-contained or work with future DLC stories.
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Jul 23, 2014 09:26
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Alouicious posted:Story DLCs are really fuckin stupid unless they're used to tell side-stories that are either self-contained or work with future DLC stories. So Lair of the Shadow Broker was stupid?
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Jul 23, 2014 09:28
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Torrannor posted:So Lair of the Shadow Broker was stupid? yeah sure why not
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Jul 23, 2014 09:40
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Torrannor posted:So Lair of the Shadow Broker was stupid? I would say that was more or less self-contained. Sure, the Shadow Broker got mentioned all the time, but the rescue operation isn't relevant to anything outside the DLC. I think the Leviathan DLC fits Alouicious' complaint better.
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Jul 23, 2014 09:42
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I didn't play lair of the shadow broker until after I played ME3, and I didn't know what the gently caress Liara was talking about half the time in ME3 until I looked it up on the internet.
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Jul 23, 2014 09:47
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Leviathan was self-contained: you could ignore it entirely and not realised you'd missed anything, which you couldn't really do for the main ME games and Shadow Broker.
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Jul 23, 2014 09:49
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Torrannor posted:So Lair of the Shadow Broker was stupid? Well it was a pretty dumb story, sure. It was the least terrible DLC because it had a lot of variety, allowed for a lot of post-DLC stuff and had some difficult fights though.
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Jul 23, 2014 09:50
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Leviathan was self-contained: you could ignore it entirely and not realised you'd missed anything, which you couldn't really do for the main ME games and Shadow Broker. Yeah, but it was billed as "guys this totally makes the final scene not stupid." so you could argue it in the other direction.
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Jul 23, 2014 09:55
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In a better game, Leviathan would be arguably "self-contained" and not necessary for the larger narrative, but with what we were given, that DLC alone (retroactively) included nearly all of the foreshadowing to set up the ending's sudden shift into batshit insanity. Not really the fault of the DLC so much as the main game itself for lacking those things in the first place, but that still makes it pretty hard to ignore even with how it is framed as a side-story.
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Jul 23, 2014 10:01
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Bogwitt posted:Hey now, I really liked Spec Ops: The Line. See, I'd argue Spec Ops is a game that got it right. It wasn't calling you out for playing the game or doing what you were expected to, but to simply think about why we find the depiction of shooting people so exciting and glamorous - it even goes out of its way to mention that despite what you do within the game itself, you're still a good person out of it. It's less "shooting people makes you evil" and more "the stuff people do in computer games would make them pretty hosed up in real life". Morrigan just bitches incessantly because you're doing stuff the game railroads you into.
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Jul 23, 2014 10:02
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Generic American posted:In a better game, Leviathan would be arguably "self-contained" and not necessary for the larger narrative, but with what we were given, that DLC alone (retroactively) included nearly all of the foreshadowing to set up the ending's sudden shift into batshit insanity. Not really the fault of the DLC so much as the main game itself for lacking those things in the first place, but that still makes it pretty hard to ignore even with how it is framed as a side-story.
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Jul 23, 2014 10:11
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Here's the thing: You didn't understood some stuff in WC3 or even World of Warcraft if you only played WC 2 and not WC 2: Beyond the Dark Portal. Likewise, you had no idea who Deekin was in Hordes of the Underdark if you didn't play Shadows of Undrentide. We take it as a given that expansions are relevant to the larger narrative. Since developers pretty much stopped making expansions, and instead make more numerous but cheaper DLCs, why do we expect them to be self contained?
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Jul 23, 2014 10:15
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In this case though it was essential in hindsight because the original was such a clusterfuck. I stand by my opinion that the New Vegas DLC is the best form of story DLC I've seen - elaborates on plot threats and themes from the main game, but it tells a self-contained narrative which gives extra meaning to the main campaign rather than giving you the primary antagonist's motivation.
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Jul 23, 2014 10:15
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poptart_fairy posted:In this case though it was essential in hindsight because the original was such a clusterfuck. I stand by my opinion that the New Vegas DLC is the best form of story DLC I've seen - elaborates on plot threats and themes from the main game, but it tells a self-contained narrative which gives extra meaning to the main campaign rather than giving you the primary antagonist's motivation. I thought the parts that Leviathan expanded on were set up adequately enough in the main game. Where the setup failed (for instance) was in having the player able to peacefully solve the Geth / Quarian issue and yet still be told that New Vegas' DLC was great though, no disagreement
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Jul 23, 2014 10:18
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Did Leviathan actually make the ending of ME3 make sense? I returned that game along with the first two when I realized I had no desire to play through them again.
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Jul 23, 2014 10:37
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Darth Windu posted:Did Leviathan actually make the ending of ME3 make sense? I returned that game along with the first two when I realized I had no desire to play through them again. Yes it did, though the ending is still dumb. If you can accept that synthetics will always kill organics (the central premise on which the existence of the Reapers rests), then the ending makes perfect sense. Since ME3 already gives you an example of synthetics and organics coming together in peace (if you get the optimal ending in Rannoch), this makes the Reapers and their central AI look really stupid.
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Jul 23, 2014 10:48
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Darth Windu posted:Did Leviathan actually make the ending of ME3 make sense?
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Jul 23, 2014 10:49
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Doctor Spaceman posted:It (further) explains why the stupid things happen, but doesn't stop them being stupid. It was a very polished turd by the end. Drifter posted:One of those games lets you carry around a lump of poo poo, the other will let you romance it. 
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Jul 23, 2014 11:07
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Torrannor posted:Yes it did, though the ending is still dumb. If you can accept that synthetics will always kill organics (the central premise on which the existence of the Reapers rests), then the ending makes perfect sense. Since ME3 already gives you an example of synthetics and organics coming together in peace (if you get the optimal ending in Rannoch), this makes the Reapers and their central AI look really stupid. It also makes the ending make more sense if you roll with the interpretation that the AI isn't actually sentient and is still just trying to fulfill its programming, falling back on the classic rogue AI concept of an AI turning on its creators because of its programming and its creators were too arrogant to add in a directive like "No galactic genocide."
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Jul 23, 2014 14:47
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Cythereal posted:It also makes the ending make more sense if you roll with the interpretation that the AI isn't actually sentient and is still just trying to fulfill its programming, falling back on the classic rogue AI concept of an AI turning on its creators because of its programming and its creators were too arrogant to add in a directive like "No galactic genocide." Then I should be able to solve the problem using the classic solution of killing the rogue AI.
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Jul 23, 2014 14:48
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Crabtree posted:It'd be something if the player characters in Inquisition reacted not in abject fear of what a demon could do to them, but what it could do to someone who isn't a demon mass murderer. My Warden in Origins loving lied to every illegal fade alien and still managed to get them to do what he wanted before he massacred them all. I've saved everyone the game can allow me from possession and I should be laughing at even Pride spirits if they dared to act like they were anything but a joke to me. I hated that loving girl and cat so loving much. It's like, hey, I'm working on this sliding block puzzle would you kindly shut the gently caress up for one goddamn second. 
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Jul 23, 2014 15:23
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Shugojin posted:I hated that loving girl and cat so loving much. It's like, hey, I'm working on this sliding block puzzle would you kindly shut the gently caress up for one goddamn second. Doesn't help that she has, bar none, the worst voice acting in the game
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Jul 23, 2014 19:26
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Alouicious posted:Doesn't help that she has, bar none, the worst voice acting in the game I think Marjolane has that honor.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:42
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I'm gonna be honest, I can't remember what 90% of voices even sound like, because I skip voice overs as soon as I read text myself. This means the Kitty and Girl bit where they talk in the background and you can't skip them is way worse than any other voice acting in the game.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:44
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