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The part I've never been able to understand about these conspiracy theories is how their advocates jump from finding holes, inconsistencies, or hard to believe aspects in the official stories to the assumption that whatever complex alternate story they've come up with must be correct instead. The truth is the average person does not know what took place on 9/11; we can read the 9/11 Commission report and choose to accept or reject what it says, but neither of those choices means we know for sure what happened that day (edit- not that I'm saying any and all views on the subject are equally valid). Personally, I'm fine with accepting the idea that I will never know totally accurate accounts of important historical events that I had no part in. It's only due to relatively recent advancements in mass media that humans can even have the illusion of being so knowledgeable about events going on all around the world all the time. Does anyone know an example of a widespread conspiracy theory from before the advent of mass media (say, before the printing press was invented)? Would the story of Nero burning Rome count? Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Sep 16, 2013 |
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Sep 16, 2013 00:33
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down_and_out posted:EDIT: Off the subject of 9/11; are there any conspiracy theories surrounding iodized salt? I figure If such a big deal is going to be made over fluoridated water, someone would be making a stink about iodized salt. But I can't remember ever hearing a fuss made about it, even though the two parallel each other in almost every way. I've actually encountered that. I don't remember the details though.
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Sep 16, 2013 03:07
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Halloween Jack posted:Ascribing "conspiracy theory" status to perceptions of historical events that developed centuries ago is really iffy, because frankly, it's the norm. The idea that Nero "fiddled while Rome burned" began as a more-or-less poetic statement by Suetonius which was later taken as historical fact. No one in Nero's own time literally believed that he did that, because he partially financed the reconstruction. That's exactly what I was wondering, thanks. WoodrowSkillson posted:The Cataline Conspiraces fit conspiracy theory decently well. The prevailing one being that Cicero engineered the events himself to boost his own image, and to create a problem for himself to solve. His handling of the events, notably executing Roman citizens without trial, hounded Cicero for the rest of his career, as did suspicion of his own part in them. Interesting.
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Sep 16, 2013 17:04
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Panda Bear posted:Also why is the CIA so comfy with al qaeda and why is it so easy for them to escape jails and prisons? Even if that's a legitimate question, the problem with every 9/11 conspiracy theory I've read is that no matter if you have one or a hundred legitimate questions of the official story that doesn't mean you can just automatically jump to the conclusion that your alternate explanation is valid or supported. You're right, though, that the drive to feel superior because you know better than the people around you isn't limited to conspiracy theorists and it applies to many of the posts in this thread as well.
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Sep 16, 2013 19:45
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Mr. Funny Pants posted:Watson made the "mistake" of humbly asking that men attending skeptic conferences not be creepy, stalky assholes. Later that night, a man in an elevator hit on her in a creepy way, and he would have heard her earlier request. And from that story came a thousand poo poo storms, including Dawkins saying (and I'm greatly simplifying here) essentially that boys will be boys. That might be an unfair characterization, so I welcome anyone adding to my understanding of the incident. You and CommieGIR got a few of the details wrong, which isn't really a big deal but the whole situation became such a poo poo-storm already that I'd rather it be accurately recounted. Rebecca Watson spoke at a skeptic's conference and later she mentioned her experiences afterward in an un-scripted YouTube video, saying: Rebecca Watson posted:Thank you to everyone who was at that conference who engaged in those discussions outside of that panel. You were all fantastic, and I loved talking to you guys. All of you except for the one man who didn't really grasp, I think, what I was saying on the panel? Because at the bar later that night--actually, at 4 in the morning--we were at the hotel bar. Four a.m., I said, "You know, I've had enough, guys, I'm exhausted, I'm going to bed." P.Z. Meyers, a popular skepticism/science/atheism blogger, https://mentioned. P.Z. Meyers posted:There is an odd attitude in our culture that it’s acceptable for men to proposition women in curious ways — Rebecca Watson recently experienced this in an elevator in Dublin, and I think this encounter Ophelia Benson had reflects the same attitude: women are lower status persons, and we men, as superior beings, get to ask things of them. Also as liberal, enlightened people, of course, we will graciously accede to their desires, and if they ask us to stop hassling them, we will back off, politely. Isn’t that nice of us? (that's just an excerpt of the full blog entry) Richard Dawkins commented on that blog post with: Richard Dawkins posted:Dear Muslima It was a reply to Meyers and not a letter to Watson as CommieGIR wrongly said. Later, he clarified his meaning by saying: Richard Dawkins posted:The man in the elevator didn't physically touch her, didn't attempt to bar her way out of the elevator, didn't even use foul language at her. He spoke some words to her. Just words. She no doubt replied with words. That was that. Words. Only words, and apparently quite polite words at that. Then here is Watson's account of the threatening and abusive comments that followed from other members of the community: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/10/sexism_in_the_skeptic_community_i_spoke_out_then_came_the_rape_threats.html
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Sep 24, 2013 05:45
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