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reagan posted:It was a piece of junk built on top of a giant Con Edison power substation. There was also fuel stored all over inside the building in part for Giuliani's doomsday bunker on the 23rd floor. Someone in the GBS thread claimed there is a picture of the building with heavy damage. I'd love to see it if someone has it handy. But if Giuliani and a bunch of other paranoid agencies had offices there why wouldn't the building be wired? Obviously this isn't something they want to admit because 1) it feeds the crazies 2) No one will want to work in offices wired with explosives I also think United 93 might have been shot down and the resistance story is either an embellishment or fiction. There is a big post-modern component to conspiracy theories - you can create whatever personal truth you like. It doesn't change the basic fact that three planes hit major buildings and 3,000 people died. Maybe one day documents will be declassified and we'll learn more about WTC 7 and United 93 - but by then 
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Sep 12, 2013 03:39
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Elman posted:My dad is convinced that the 2004 Madrid bombings weren't caused by islamist terrorists, but by ETA terrorists working in conjunction with a political party, in an attempt to remove the governing party from power in the general elections that happened 3 days after the attack. Don't tell him 9/11/01 was also the New York City Mayoral Primary that was later won by Bloomberg 
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Sep 12, 2013 17:08
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Prester John posted:The Icke crowd, despite being the guy behind 4th dimensional blood drinking higher vibrational aliens who appear reptilian to us and need the the illuminatti bloodline in order to possess their hosts, is actually the far more tolerable crowd if you ever meet them in person. I flipped through one of Icke's books and it was crazy - lots of stuff about vibrations, holograms, and planes. He also had lots of illustrations by Dees. I'm not surprised they are more tolerable - it seems like Icke is building a narrative for chill types who buy into healing crystals and stuff. Alex Jones sucks up to Icke now and then and it seems like he mainly puts the same narrative into an obnoxious Limbaugh frame. Thanks for posting, Prester John. It is a shame that if you tried to reason with one of these people they would dismiss you the second you mention being medicated.
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Sep 13, 2013 03:18
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VitalSigns posted:Don't take it personally, but do read the report; it's actually readable and very interesting. There's a 'King of the Hill' episode where Dale reads the Warren Commission and goes through the supplemental materials and concludes that Oswald really did act alone. He then becomes obnoxiously patriotic (to the point that he reports Hank to DHS) Thanks for bringing in some more information.
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Sep 14, 2013 02:11
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SedanChair posted:Yeah, people at every level of the military and government were reporting all sorts of bad info to each other that day. Hell everybody was. People were saying New York had been nuked or was "gone." Time rapidly brought perspective. It is perception that matters, not reality. In the end the cultural memory of 9/11 will be in very broad strokes and people will have their own 'ideas' or just won't think about history - like the JFK Assassination. But on the idea of objective reality it's interesting how 9/11 ties in with the propagation of cell phones. They played a big role in the narrative of the attack (the passengers contacting their families, cell phone owners in NYC as small heroes). The Mass Media fear culture played up the whole child abduction thing in the following couple years. The result was everyone buying cell phones and often getting them for their kids. Now it is alot easier to propagate both rumors and facts - and the State has a new way to supervise people
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Sep 14, 2013 03:10
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Rhesus Pieces posted:I distinctly remember hearing erroneous reports about there being 12 more hijacked airliners in the sky, along with the State Department being car-bombed and the National Mall being on fire. I remember my Mom telling me the National Mall was destroyed. I guess the total grounding of all flights was an overabundance of caution to know for sure how many planes were hijacked. Mc Do Well fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Sep 14, 2013 |
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Sep 14, 2013 03:46
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Prester John posted:On the day of the attacks he was interviewed and claimed that he was involved in a city wide disaster simulation that simulated the exact same trains and bus being targetd at the exact same locations at the exact same time it was happening. According to him this caused some real confusion because at first they couldn't believe that it was actually happening. Well it's not like intelligence agencies haven't strung people along before - I wouldn't put it past Tony Blair and MI5 to say 'gently caress it'
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Sep 14, 2013 03:57
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Forget conning these people - someone is telling them to stare directly into the sun multiple times a day - and apparently they believe it. I'm really sorry about your friends, Yarbald. I don't know if it is a good or bad thing that your friend is going to turn into Harry Caray. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrFUBKCONfs
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Sep 15, 2013 02:40
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This picture shows how the Towers were built. Other buildings like the Empire State are filled with support columns - the WTC has that central core and the outer shell. The impact and the burning fuel weakened the core until the whole structure collapsed under its own weight. As for building seven - I'm still waiting for someone to provide some damage pictures. Maybe it was clear the building was damaged beyond repair so they set off a self-destruct system put in place by the Secretive agencies with offices there. To quote Hillary 'What difference does it make?'
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Sep 16, 2013 01:43
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Because GIS has a reliable signal to noise ratio on something like this  - it always helps for people to provide content here.That damage doesn't explain how it collapsed so neatly (unless it had a similar design to 1 and 2?) - or why its collapse was reported on before it happened. down_and_out posted:EDIT: Off the subject of 9/11; are there any conspiracy theories surrounding iodized salt? I figure If such a big deal is going to be made over fluoridated water, someone would be making a stink about iodized salt. But I can't remember ever hearing a fuss made about it, even though the two parallel each other in almost every way. Maybe because the physiological importance of Iodine is well established? I'm sure there's someone staring into the sun to break down their excess pineal iodine though.
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Sep 16, 2013 02:21
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Prester John posted:PS:DOWN THIS PATH LIES ONLY MADNESS. Yeah, as I said from the beginning I'm only discussing/entertaining these ideas in a post-modern way - only as being possible, not true. Just turtling on the official story as the absolute truth makes you condescending and stand-offish - and imagine how you'll feel when you're in a nursing home one day reading a story about some newly declassified documents.
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Sep 16, 2013 02:48
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Muscle Tracer posted:Image of debris crashing into WTC 7 at 1:00, images of fires raging within at 1:04 and 1:25, and excellent visual evidence at 2:00 that would be totally inconsistent with a controlled demolition. Yup, it was a good video, addressed most of my skepticism. Thanks for posting it, Amused to Death.
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Sep 16, 2013 17:10
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Mass Shooting conspiracies are like a case study of the entire 'false flag' idea. It is a political tool to convince people not to react in the expected way. For example I think alot of 9/11 truthers were primarily trying to get people to reject Bush and the War on Terror (but going about it in a terrible way). With mass shootings it is obvious what political groups benefit from a false flag narrative - and they are influential enough that it actually works.
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Sep 17, 2013 18:37
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Gygaxian posted:One think I can't understand about the conspiracy crowd is how they latch onto random politicians as being messengers of truth. Wesley Clark, Jim Traficant, Ron Paul (mostly Ron Paul), etc. I keep seeing "Jim Traficant stands up to Zionist Agenda" or "Wesley Clark reveals New World Order" videos of those guys whenever I'm looking for Youtube videos of political speeches. They need someone with authority they can point to who isn't just a prolific conspiracy writer. That said the Wesley Clark video is interesting because it is about NeoConservative arrogance - even though the NeoCons were completely at odds with Bush I's 'New World Order'.
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Sep 20, 2013 22:29
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Blair was all about following the lead of the US - here we had officials claiming the hijackers were meeting with Iraqi intelligence agents. I doubt that argument would mean much to UK folks but you are close enough to Iraq that a flimsy story about being in missile range makes sense on a basic level.
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Sep 21, 2013 15:40
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Bulls Hit posted:Just because there was a plane that hit the buildings, doesn't mean there weren't explosives in the building that helped bring it down. Your 2nd example really isn't "mind blowing". So did you ignore the whole thread and just reply to the OP? I guess you are anecdotal evidence to my point that facts don't matter - people will just insist on their interpretation of events.
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Sep 21, 2013 19:47
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computer parts posted:It's almost as though during a gigantic war against someone people will make poo poo up for page hits. Yes, because America didn't support the Mujahadeen during the Soviet Occupation of Afghanistan Whether or not Bin Laden and Zawahiri got direct support doesn't mean they weren't emboldened/enabled by the Soviet withdrawal - which was made possible by the Arms Trade, the ISI, Arab Governments, and the US. We should just keep making the same stupid mistakes in our foreign policy; revising history to make our leaders look good.
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Sep 23, 2013 14:49
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Sergg posted:Actually the entire point of this line of argument is from somebody claiming that Osama was our employee, rather than someone who tangentially benefited from our retarded anti-Soviet policies by happening to be on the same side as people receiving weapons from us. ComputerParts seems to making the argument that people pointing to past policy as the cause of current problems are doing it for attention and should keep their mouths shut. It is antidemocratic, Authoritarian, and doesn't contribute anything.
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Sep 23, 2013 15:23
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Funky See Funky Do posted:wtf because America's elite really do go to this place and participate in this wacky poo poo. Besides the guy who got Bush II's paintings this was an interesting result from hacking Colin Powell's phone  If you can identify the other people there do their names also end with 'well'? Because Malcolm McDowell is there with Colin.
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Sep 25, 2013 00:38
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twistedmentat posted:Anytime someone spouts out anything about the Rothschildes, I always respond "reading Protocols of the Elder of Zion recently?" because it and the entire WORLD MONEY CONTROL thing is just another version of "Jews are controlling all our money to undermine christian democracies/capitalist systems". Yeah this one goes back to the beginning of the 20th century. It literally drove the Holocaust - and people still repeat it. The John Birch Society bascially used it by saying the Soviet Union was just a creation of the Bankers (and they, the true populists, can save us) Archive.org no longer has 1934's 'The House of Rothchild' or I would link it.
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Sep 25, 2013 01:52
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The link between conspiracy thinking and Marxism/Class War is an interesting one - and again ties in with the Banker meme. Ted Cruz apparently just beat out Bob LaFollette's record. I've been reading John Dos Passo's 'USA Trilogy'; a kind of collage of life from 1900-1930 - and characters talk about Class Conflict, fighting Bob, the Banks, and the 'Interests'. People are aware of many social issues through experience and cultural memory - but with the Cold War and the rise of television this dissent has become manageable. The internet has changed this dynamic, but generally the signal/noise ratio is awful and people like Alex Jones (intentionally) make the problem worse.
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Sep 25, 2013 15:03
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Hodgepodge posted:There is no freedom from narrative. We structure our thoughts and perceptions according to rules, some of which are explicit and well-defined (formal academics, math and sciences, religious ceremony, etc) and some implicit (social rules, personal thoughts and conversations). But if enough people understand the narrative concept - and realize they can assert agency - it can make things messy.
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Sep 28, 2013 00:09
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Haven't you guys watched Voyager? Nano particles!  SG1 had fun with this - in a later season Ba'al had a skyscraper built that could explode abd destroy the Earth. They safely beam it away but the mysterious disappearance of a building becomes a recurring plot point.
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Sep 28, 2013 16:00
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An interesting 'conspiracy' story is how the ISI has been playing everyone since the 80's. I wouldn't be surprised if they coordinate with Russia/China to make the occupation of Afghanistan more difficult.
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Oct 5, 2013 15:49
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Popular Thug Drink posted:What's the point? Who would really drop this conspiracy nonsense if the government released blurry pictures of a plane? I'd like to think the DoD is just trolling conspiracy nuts. Not to mention all the people who saw a low flying plane, not a missile. If cell phone cameras were ubiquitous at the time I'm sure they would fall back on holograms
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Nov 5, 2013 21:59
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wellaware1 is literally a paranoid schizophrenic. But that hasn't deterred gun nuts from using his ideas to deflect how we react to mass shootings.
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Nov 7, 2013 03:45
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There's basically no way to reason with someone who seriously thinks the government has secret weather controlling machines. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EcYx_D4YI A couple years ago there was a freak small earthquake on the east coast with the epicenter near DC. Joe Biden was visiting China at the time so obviously the Chinese were demonstrating to him that they had closed the HAARP gap.
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Nov 10, 2013 17:11
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AndreTheGiantBoned posted:Are there any useful links for further reading about this matter? Here's a good blog by Adam Curtis about a prominent Right Wing Texas Oil man who figures in alot of JFK conspiracies. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/YOU-THINK-YOU-ARE-A-CONSUMER-BUT-MAYBE-YOU-HAVE-BEEN-CONSUMED You will never come to a definitive answer, you can only go further down the post-modern rabbit hole of possibilities.
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Nov 10, 2013 22:04
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I think Hunter was familiar enough with conspiracy thinking to know how useless it is to fight the official story without proof. One of the reasons he gave in his suicide note was that he saw himself becoming one of the old cranks he used to mock. Your legacy lives on, Hunter. We won't burn ourselves out on the hard stuff this time  
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Nov 11, 2013 15:18
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I eat protein whey tubs all at once and I'm dependent on Neuropozyne. Thanks Obama!
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Nov 23, 2013 04:55
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 An oldie but a goodie - lots of artifacts. Do you guys think the CIA faked this particular video? In case you don't remember it, this one was different from his proclamations, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKVpGq7estQ
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Nov 28, 2013 18:59
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Spakstik posted:why did they wait until Obama's first term to fake his death? So the Satanic Illuminati masters could have their Kenyan-born puppet re-elected (they don't rig the election because reasons, or maybe they do; people who think these kind of things usually don't vote).
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Jan 12, 2014 03:48
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Popular Thug Drink posted:This is the first step towards being a conspiracy theorist. It's not possible that the USSR accidentally killed a human in a failed spaceflight and destroyed every bit of evidence that the flight or the pilot ever existed. The process of building and launching a ship, as well as training a pilot, takes too many people and generates too much paper for all of it to be suppressed. It's the same principle as the Moon Landings. The USSR would have every reason to expose them as a hoax and embarass the US- it's confirmed by things like the laser reflectors that were placed there by Apollo astronauts. If the story of Italian radio operators picking up cries for help is true wouldn't the CIA be all over? Or were they too busy dropping acid and throwing paint at a canvas?
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Jan 15, 2014 01:53
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E-Tank posted:My favorite skewering of conspiracy nuts. I like it - here's another Conspiracy / School House Rock parody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3JLKw0q4kY
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Jan 16, 2014 14:48
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Gen. Ripper posted:Since when has Ron Paul said anything reasonable? He supports marijuana legalization, normalizing relations with Cuba, and scaling down our overseas costs - to name a couple of his 'right twice a day' moments. There's just too much horrible looniness that comes with it. All these Conspiracy-driven political organizations are basically cults - and they are very clever. The LaRouchites have been on the ballot in New Jersey as the 'Glass Steagall Now' party. I encountered that Communist themed cult in maybe the second or third week in Zuccotti park.
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Jan 18, 2014 00:24
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It's possible back in the days of limited print media people could have entertained any number of crazy ideas; either kept to themselves or their families. It would explain why people don't vote (just assuming the whole thing is an elaborate machination), and why even ideas like blood libel somehow still survive. As print media developed people living in cities encountered all sorts of pamphlets; and information can get passed along unquestioned in families.
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Jan 21, 2014 20:22
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Come on, Snowden; we all just want the secret UFO files. If he denies they exist he must be on the the plot to conceal the truth! If he confirms it he is a crank talking about little green men!
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Jan 24, 2014 22:32
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Which one of you Goons is trying to monetize this thread? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VmpDQs3WA0
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Jan 31, 2014 07:02
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Many people come into the world blue and quickly lose their healthy skin tone from exposure to chemtrails in the air.
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Mar 5, 2014 00:38
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With the collapse of the Soviet Union Russia has already entered a post-modern period where the Establishment entrenches itself by reinforcing that 'nothing is true' and allowing the masses to entertain any number of ideas. People who see Russia as a 'good guy' are really delusional - if anything it represents the dystopic future - humans dispassionately enmeshed in a brutal society run by gangsters. Adam Curtis has a good blog post about it here - talking about Limonov and the Russian punk movement leading into Putin/Surkov's post-modern political theater. Of course the USA's WWE two-party system is quickly becoming no different.
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Mar 9, 2014 15:18
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