Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Miltank posted:

The trump card that I often see getting pulled has to do with the third WTC tower going down. Is there a black and white answer for that?
I got wrapped up in an online argument with a guy I know who turned out to be a Truther. I quickly learned that I couldn't debunk lies faster than he could spout them. The only way to beat the Gish Gallop is to put the burden of proof on them, where it belongs, and insist they prove that their alternative scenario is plausible.

The broken bones posted:

There's something powerful, attractive, and redeeming in feeling smarter than everyone else.
-----
Someone mentioned paranoia. yeah. Paranoia is completely irrational. It's based on anxiety and fear.
It's no surprise that there's overlap between conspiracy theorists and bigots, but when I learned that many of the Loose Change arguments originated in a Neo-Nazi newsletter, I began wondering if the conspiracy theorist outlook is inherently fascist. It promotes the idea that the world is corrupt because of a mysterious conspiracy which secretly manipulates everyone except for a heroic, illuminated few, who can save the world by motivating the People to "wake up" whereupon the conspiracy's power will crumble in an apocalyptic struggle. Add a messianic leader, and you have the worldview of any blackshirt gang you care to name. It raises the question of where personality meets ideology.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Prester John posted:

In the truther movement there are two big, but informal, camps. You could call them the "Alex Jones Crowd" and the "David Icke Crowd".
I don't want to wade waist-deep in all of Icke's crazy, but I have seen him in some YouTube video repeating vague platitudes with which most liberals would agree; e.g. that income inequality and rampant pollution are stupid. Is that how he presents himself before drawing people into his Sleestak TimeCube crazy?

quote:

There is an experience the Schizophrenic mind has often, and that is "waking up". Suddenly, all the connections become clear, you can see the world for what it really is. It is as plain as day. It all makes sense. Naturally to the Schizophrenic mind this sort of thing can happen over pretty illogical/mundane stuff, but experiencing it is sort of a high, and it can be kind of habit forming. Conspiracy theorists often also talk of this "waking up" experience, where all of the sudden it clicked for them and they could see it all.( For most I have personally encountered this was during watching a documentary like Loose Change or its ill-begotten ilk.)

Once you have this waking up experience, you relearn everything about the world. You have a life changing perspective that causes you to re-evaluate literally everything. (I imagine it is very similar too, if not identical too, the dramatic conversion experience some people go through with religion.) You spend time rethinking everything, the world is suddenly a different place. There is an order to things, a higher pattern you can now perceive. You can place previous mysterious world events into neatly labeled mental folders that explain it all. On top of this, the fact that no one else in your day-to-day life can see this pattern gives you a sort of superiority feeling. You can see it, your smarter, you rose above your cultural brainwashing and now you can truly perceive the truth. When major world events happen and you create a mental narrative for them, one that gets matched up by Alex Jone's take on the event, and supported by other "awake" people, it becomes a very deep mental hole that is very difficult to dig your way out of. In short, when your "real truth" is verified by other people you perceive to be "awake" just like you, its enthralling. Perhaps not thrilling, not always pleasant (fear and anxiety play a tremendous role in all this) but it does occupy almost all your attention and spare time.
This is interesting to me because I've long been fascinated by Internet subcultures that appear to be essentially based around mental illness. Self-harm is a symptom of mental illness, but "ana and mia" websites are something else. Paranoia and schizophrenia are mental illnesses, but "gangstalking," my favourite conspiracy theory, is a loosely connected network of people building shaky rationales for their persecution complex. These communities seem to serve the purpose of helping their members feel less alone, but keep them wallowing in their illness, dependent on the community and the worldview it supports for what little positive reinforcement they can get in their miserable lives. Your thoughts?

Prester John posted:

Yeah, Icke's main message is that all of 3 dimensional reality is a gigantic holographic simulation we built for ourselves, so just chill out. Our hologram has gotten hijacked a bit by external influences not native to this particular space-time continuum(the reptilian aliens), but that is no reason to panic, we are going to get through this. Remember, its all just a simulation, and the important thing is the connections you make and how you decide to help the people in your daily life.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Lord Krangdar posted:

Does anyone know an example of a widespread conspiracy theory from before the advent of mass media (say, before the printing press was invented)? Would the story of Nero burning Rome count?
Off the top of my head:

Pope Joan
Augustus assassinated Hirtius and Pansa


Ascribing "conspiracy theory" status to perceptions of historical events that developed over centuries is very sketchy, because frankly, it's the norm. The idea that Nero "fiddled while Rome burned" began as a more-or-less poetic statement by Suetonius which was later taken as historical fact. No one in Nero's own time literally believed that he did that, because among other reasons, he partially financed the reconstruction.

Edit: That being said, conspiracy theories were common in previous centuries. If anything, they were more rife before there was a mass media to generate consensus beyond the local level in explaining mysterious events. If someone involved in a political rivalry conveniently died, they were rumoured to have been poisoned or assassinated; that one's probably older than the Roman Empire. Early Modern Europe was obsessed with conspiracies involving the papacy or suspect religious groups like Jews and Huguenots. Here's a book about it.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Sep 16, 2013

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
And if you want a 9/11ish conspiracy that's actually true, Julius Caesar framed the Gallic Wars as a preemptive defensive action, but the real reason was that he was in tremendous debt, and when his term as proconsul ended he would lose his immunity to litigation. The Gallic Wars were about turning him from a bankrupt into Rome's richest man and greatest military hero.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
I am losing otherwise pleasant people from my Facebook friends because I just can't help myself when it comes to conspiracy theories. Today I explained why there is no reason to believe that the Department of Homeland Security assassinated Brittany Murphy by way of heavy metal poisoning. I managed to save another friendship by keeping my mouth shut about the theory that Kevin Sullivan killed Chris Benoit. I get the mentally ill conspiracists, but why do normal people subscribe to these theories on a case-by-case basis when it involves their favourite celebrity?

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
There's nothing crazy about looking at the Kennedy assassination and thinking there must have been more to it than one lone, ingenious but crazy guy, who was killed himself before he could be interrogated about his motives. It's crazy to immediately assume it was the Cubans or the Russians or the Cosa Nostra or whoever with no evidence.

Then there are people who believe it was British royal holographic lizard-men from the 4th Dimension, which is right out.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
So about those moon landing conspiracies; do most of those people just believe that the original moon landing was faked, or that the moon is impossible to reach and the very idea is preposterous? Do they believe in satellite communications?

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Davros1 posted:

They claim that the Zyklon-B that was used for gassing was only used for delousing, and there's evidence that the Zyklon-B wasn't present in strong enough doses to kill anyone.*

*The evidence I spoke of? Scrapings taken from the shower walls 60-plus years after they happened. Because as we all know, being exposed to the elements has absolutely no impact at all.
Not only that, but the Zyklon-B left very very little residue on the walls of the shower, and Fred Leuchter "tested" them by breaking off big chunks of bricks and crushing them.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
How rich and powerful are the Rothschilds, anyway? Like, compared to the Marses or Waltons?

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
I remember some stupid diet book called Skinny Bitch which says that you should not use Splenda because it contains chlorine, which of course is not only that stuff in the pool that stings your eyes, it was used in chemical warfare!

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Centripetal Horse posted:

Basset's on the downhill slide to sixty. She's still younger than Lansbury, but she's getting pretty close to the point where the prefix "young" becomes ironic. She is still black, though.
Look at a picture of Angela Basset, then watch her in a movie from the 90s. The most significant difference is her hairstyle. Either there's a godawful-looking portrait of her locked in a closet somewhere, or she could be the basis for a conspiracy theory about alien vampires all by herself.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
It would be pretty ironic if Alex Jones was marketing The Stuff.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Martello posted:

I looked a few forums on this poo poo, and have you guys noticed that the users always have horrendous writing skills? Tons of elipses, comma elipses (,,,) which aren't a real thing, all caps for no reason, misspellings, etc and so on.

Well, in some cases it's outright logorrhea.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

SocketWrench posted:

It's so you have time to think about the garbage they peddle bit by bit. In smaller portions it makes more sense than the whole thing all at once.
If that's the case, why are titles like NEW WORLD ORDER ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT SATANIC ROBOT SUPER SOLDIER COINTELPRO MKULTRA STASI MIND CONTROL IMPLANT part of the conspiracist's stock in trade?

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Kugyou no Tenshi posted:

I take it you never saw the SJW thread where there were literally people saying that if you didn't hate cis people you weren't actually trans, including directing those comments at other trans people? Or that if you were actually trans and didn't agree with "transethnic" or "transspecies" people you were "truscum"? It's a real loving thing, and some of them send as many death/rape threats as the "cishet scum" they hate so much. The term "SJW" has gotten intrinsically linked with the screaming idiotic masses who co-opt actual oppressed minority struggles to try to validate their feelings of persecution whenever someone says "no, 'demiromantic' is a loving truism and not a special snowflake speck on the Kinsey scale".
So are you painting everyone who believes in "social justice" with the SJW label? Because a small number of insane people on the Internet don't mean much. Has a transethnic otherkin gang actually clubbed anybody to death yet?

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

quote:

Every effort I make to transverse our nation's highways is subject to death, violence, capture and seizure of my property by a thug dressed as a highwayman.
What, tricorner hat, cloak, and flintlock pistols? I've never seen a guy dressed like that on the interstate.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Nckdictator posted:

I like how he swings between "Not that many died if at all" and "Those who did die deserved it"
This reminds me of the North Korean propaganda on nuclear weapons. They shouted to the heavens that the US fabricated a "nuclear problem" to justify imposing sanctions, while repeatedly insinuating that they had already prepared a nuclear deterrent.

SedanChair posted:

I feel like they really belong in the category "plumb idiots" and not much else, just like ignorant slobs who have no opinion on the Middle East beyond "just bomb everyone!" don't really qualify as "rightists." I mean in both cases you could argue, but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
The thing is, "turn the Middle East to glass" may not be a principled right-winger, but it's certainly reactionary, xenophobic, and racist, and could therefore be labeled as conservative. But to provide contrast, what is a dumb and crazy knee-jerk liberal reaction?

A Fancy 400 lbs posted:

Just because they're really bad at being leftists doesn't mean they aren't leftists. I think one of the major problems with leftist politics is the tendency to just claim anyone with a dumb opinion isn't really a leftist instead of trying to challenge their opinion.
I agree, but I'm confused about what specific kinds of crackpot conspiracism you can expect to find among liberals and leftists. There are plenty of conspiracy movements that are by and for the extreme right. Christian identity, sovereign citizens, etc. (Granted, a lot of these people fall into the "gap" in horseshoe theory because they're so paranoid about any kind of government power.) But I can't think of many markedly left-wing conspiracy theories. Icke and LaRouche's followers, I guess?

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Sep 11, 2014

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
On the drive from PA back to VA, I saw banners hung from overpasses, with American flags and slogans. The first read "We the People," the second read "Never Forget," and the third was illegible at 70mph. I wonder if these are the same people I saw at a rest stop in the DC area who were gathering to take part in the Great Trucker Siege.

This has been on my mind lately: Horseshoe theory assets that the extreme right and left are more similar than they are different because both extremes are authoritarian. But increasingly I find that extremists of all kinds blend together for the exact opposite reason; they tend to exhibit an ill-defined, poorly-considered mistrust of any kind of authority at all. I'm not just talking about fringe conspiracy theorists I read about online, but people I encounter every day. I find political slogans and political small talk a lot more alienating than a clear statement I disagree with, because it's so dominated by these ambiguous, negative generalities.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Shbobdb posted:

Nation of Islam started as a UFO religion that has only recently started working towards Shi'ite Orthodoxy. It has a lot of crazy stuff in it. It's like the Mormon version of Islam.
Sonsyrea Tate's Little X is a pretty engaging and entertaining look at what it was like to grow up in the NOI in the 70s-80s. A lot of her family grew out of the NOI and into mainstream Islam, but of particular interest is her mother, who went from NOI to Sunni to Scientology.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Shbobdb posted:

let me tell you people about all the freaky poo poo Cleopatra did and why Mark Anthony had it coming, plus did you know that Alexander-the-so-called-"Great"'s mother loved loving snakes and maybe that is why he is such a slimeball? Also, did you know that in nearby territories, the nobles claim "first night" where they deflower all the brides? Also, they do some crazy torture poo poo man.

And that's just Europe. The-rod-in-puss(y) ain't got nothin' on China's Great Historian. Then there is India. I'm admittedly ignorant in that area but even in my ignorance I've seen enough Indian art to understand what kind of slander they are going to be rockin'.

But, really, it's the lead in the aqueducts and the gasoline. Another one of my favorite conspiracy theories, glad to see that one is coming from inside the thread.

(Also, we are living in a hollow Earth)

Edit: Should have stuck with "The-rod-o-tuss" but I got excited and a little carried away.

Edit: The-rod-o-puss? Does that work? I need some classical greek scholars to help me out here since I'm not even really sure how to pronounce it like back-in-the-day. Use that Classics Ph.D. and help me out. Also, share some sweet new slanders.
This is supposed to be a joke about Herodotus, right? I'm not following.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Alkydere posted:

Also, it seems I dodged a bullet by never reading Freakanomics.
According to Malcolm Gladwell, you actually made rational choices which led to you never being shot at in the first place.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
We've hired our own geeks to post positive about Quixtar!

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
I like to think that Kevin Nash and Al Jourgensen are conspiring to conquer the world.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Under the vegetable posted:

Uh, I didn't say he did. But many people actually can't seek therapy on their own in this country, or are not even aware that it's an option. It's prohibitively expensive and isn't even accessible in many communities. For a time, I had to drive almost two hours to see a psychiatrist in a single township's locally funded mental health facility, because I was from a poor family and lived in a location where the only mental health care available was priced far out of my range. This was before "Obamacare", so even finding a place that was willing to attempt a meeting with a person who didn't have and couldn't afford health insurance was incredibly difficult. I only found the place because one of my school friends' mothers was a psychologist there and personally recommended me.
My father works for an agency that provides care for people with mental illness and disability; my mother works for an agency that provides psychiatry and therapy to people in an area where many are scraping together the $5 session fee. The former agency is local government, the latter is university, so imagine the state of mental health care in places where no such agencies exist and the state and federal governments aren't stepping in.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Caconym posted:

Yup. Flouride is probably neurotoxic in high doses, but also has the most obvious warning signs ever, in that your teeth will turn brown first. And of course the limits for water fluoridation is set well below threshold. Shockingly the dose makes the poison again.
So, how many times would you die of water toxicity before the flouride make you forget where you put your keys?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

smoke sumthin bitch posted:

the real charlatans are the legacy corporate media who are toeing the deep state party line and youre being conned by them
Smoke dog, I'm very very interested to know what you think of Marina Abramovic.

  • Locked thread