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Sex Beef 2.0: Jan 14, 2012

Tatum Girlparts posted:

I'm sorry your site full of uncreative idiots was called a pedo. I hope you can heal from this assault on your e-honor. Please do not challenge us to an e-duel.

Sorry, I'm taking the internet too seriously. Feel free to ignore me and keep writing essays, porn and books about TVTropes.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Sep 15, 2013 19:26

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 08:08

dads_work_files: May 14, 2008; important_document.avi

TheWorldIsSquare posted:

I'm totally not from BTL, and while no one really cares if you make fun of -them-, calling -them- pedophiles isn't a place you want to go. -They- aren't, which is plain to see if if you take a cursory glance around -their- website or -their- rules ("We have no tolerance for pedoshit. None. Get it away. If you have pedophilic thoughts, get off the Internet and get some help. We hope you succeed and wish you luck, but we can't help you."), and the last time sperglords like Volume tried to "collect evidence" to prove -they- were pedos you guys ended up accusing someone who had actually been molested as a child. Just a heads up.

You -know-, you can just type [i ] [/i ] without the -spaces- to -emphasise- a word without making your post completely -unreadable-.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 19:39

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

dads_work_files posted:

You -know-, you can just type [i ] [/i ] without the -spaces- to -emphasise- a word without making your post completely -unreadable-.

He has to make it clear that you're going down a bad path. He's already fingering the handle of his katana, do you want to push him further?!

# ? Sep 15, 2013 19:40

Lottery of Babylon: Apr 25, 2012; STRAIGHT TROPIN'

Oh my god all of you shut the gently caress up, thanks in advance

Psycho Frea X posted:

So, what are your impressions of these characters?

Semi-finished drawing, but I'm afraid to mess it up. -w- And a bit of smudging sorry.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 19:47

Tea Party Crasher: Sep 3, 2012

TheWorldIsSquare posted:

Sorry, I'm taking the internet too seriously. Feel free to ignore me and keep writing essays, porn and books about TVTropes.

Two passive aggressive men clash on the forums. Both men will apologize, only one will be earnest. Find out what happens probably 3 pages from now.

You know what would make this thread fun? Content:

'Questions for your Main Character posted:

1. How was your life at home?

2. What's your main drive in life?

3. Do you believe human nature is fundamentally good or evil?

(Seriously, though, is this topic okay?)

1. Mom grounded me when she found out about my lolicon.

2. Get more lolicon.

3. Don't care.

me hate thinking posted:

I like the idea, but its very creative aka hard surprised

Maybe change to public domain characters and have people guess based on the questions? idk just my suggestion

Why do you think I'd know poo poo about my character? I can tell you all about Tom Sawyer's Myer-Briggs test results.

Nolan, Catwoman's younger brother posted:

I am not interested in discussing my childhood at length with you. I grew up in Queens, I was raised by feral cats, and at the age of sixteen I enrolled in Adversary Candidate School in order to make something of myself. In another time, I might have joined the army.

He then goes into detail about this character becoming the front of a progressive metal band. I'd like to imagine he hisses into the mic and claws at his guitar at concerts.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 19:56

Sex Beef 2.0: Jan 14, 2012

dads_work_files posted:

You -know-, you can just type [i ] [/i ] without the -spaces- to -emphasise- a word without making your post completely -unreadable-.

You have a low standard for unreadable. Sorry though.

Content:

CDRW posted:

I should write an essay about why FE is so great. I love it so much. And even though kkat is writing at superhuman speed it's still not fast enough.

For context, FE = Fallout Equestria. From their 10,000 page thread about it :barf:

EDIT: And that's from their fanficition subforum (?)

Sex Beef 2.0 fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Sep 15, 2013

# ? Sep 15, 2013 19:56

Apple Tree: Sep 8, 2013

Content!

Out of curiosity, I fed the word 'Art' into TVTropes. This is the second link, after the trope of 'True Art'.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Art

quote:

"Art" is a word with multiple similar but distinct meanings ...
Broadly speaking, the word "art" is commonly applied to works from various media that are believed to have lasting worth, although this is extremely subjective. Calling a work "art" (or not) can be controversial, as it is a judgment of quality that can offend both sides of the argument. There are some who believe everything is art, and some who believe only a few things are art, or apply stipulative definitions, like "art is something that makes you feel." When people talk about "True Art," this is generally what they're thinking of.

Er, no. I think when people say 'true art', they usually mean art that's, like, good.

But the degree of flanneling is just remarkable. It's a complete non-definition: we're not actually going to describe what art is because we don't want to upset anyone; instead, we're just going to emphasise that nobody really knows and so, by implication, nobody can tell you that your stuff isn't art.

Which is what I hate most about TVTropes: they'd rather deny that art exists or has any value than consider the horrible horrible possibility that maybe they just aren't any good at it. If it doesn't serve your ego, it must not be real! Smash the beautiful things!

It also says something that of the thirteen examples of 'art' they were able to come up with in that thread, only three of them are live links. Ten just go to a plaintive suggestion that maybe somebody might like to write something about them. (Or perhaps just explain what 'The Rennaissance of Art' is supposed to be. :rolleyes:

)

And nobody, it seems, wants to.

Apple Tree fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Sep 15, 2013

# ? Sep 15, 2013 20:02

Tea Party Crasher: Sep 3, 2012

More from the questions thread, where the answers make you wish you never asked.

No Action, No Story posted:

Alright, three new questions:

1. How do you fight?

2. Why do you fight?

3. What do you fight?

1. I start by attacking them and keep going until they can't attack me.

2. Bad writing.

3. The real question is what don't I fight?

Nolan posted:

1. It depends on the situation. For the most part, I use a sword. Most people in my society use swords; pistols, rifles, and other firearms are for militia and Adversaries. Being a former Adversary myself, I do have a 11.43mm semi-automatic pistol, but I prefer a blade � or a pair of weighted-knuckle gloves.

'Ugh, if I HAVE to use guns I will.'

quote:

Mostly humans. Corrupt politicians, tyrants, dirty cops, crooked businessmen, murderers the law cannot otherwise reach, child molestors, and the like. Sometimes I get to cut down a tax collector. I killed a demon once. At least, that's what I call it. It was not a flesh-and-blood intelligence, but it was not a supernatural being, either.

I'm a killer of all trades.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 20:05

Djeser: Mar 22, 2013; it's crow time again

Is the cool quotient of swords just so high that they're the only weapon anyone ever considers? I'm just wondering why there isn't more spear-centric or axe-centric stuff in generic storytelling. You'd think that--

quote:

TV Tropes Forums > Writer's Block > Is it racist to give a Native American supersoldier tomahawks?

never mind

# ? Sep 15, 2013 20:21

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Tea Party Crasher posted:

He then goes into detail about this character becoming the front of a progressive metal band. I'd like to imagine he hisses into the mic and claws at his guitar at concerts.

So he blends into the metal scene well?

# ? Sep 15, 2013 20:34

i hate meatloaf: May 23, 2010

Apple Tree posted:

Content!

Out of curiosity, I fed the word 'Art' into TVTropes. This is the second link, after the trope of 'True Art'.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Art

Er, no. I think when people say 'true art', they usually mean art that's, like, good.

But the degree of flanneling is just remarkable. It's a complete non-definition: we're not actually going to describe what art is because we don't want to upset anyone; instead, we're just going to emphasise that nobody really knows and so, by implication, nobody can tell you that your stuff isn't art.

Which is what I hate most about TVTropes: they'd rather deny that art exists or has any value than consider the horrible horrible possibility that maybe they just aren't any good at it. If it doesn't serve your ego, it must not be real! Smash the beautiful things!

It also says something that of the thirteen examples of 'art' they were able to come up with in that thread, only three of them are live links. Ten just go to a plaintive suggestion that maybe somebody might like to write something about them. (Or perhaps just explain what 'The Rennaissance of Art' is supposed to be.)

And nobody, it seems, wants to.

Also nearly all of those examples of art come from the Western world, and those that don't are just vague concepts that include Western works. You'd think with the site being so full of weeaboos, they'd at least mention Japanese prints. I'm guessing whoever wrote that page was the one troper who took Survey to Western Art History.

Oh wow. Over here at http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArtTropes they list 6 art movements, one of which is "Fantasy Art." Most of the articles are snubs too.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 20:39

Apple Tree: Sep 8, 2013

i hate meatloaf posted:

Also nearly all of those examples of art come from the Western world, and those that don't are just vague concepts that include Western works. You'd think with the site being so full of weeaboos, they'd at least mention Japanese prints. I'm guessing whoever wrote that page was the one troper who took Survey to Western Art History.

Oh wow. Over here at http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArtTropes they list 6 art movements, one of which is "Fantasy Art." Most of the articles are snubs too.

And one of the is 'Hex Sign' too, which is kind of surprising. I mean, maybe I'm just ignorant, but I would have thought that if you're talking about all the major movements of art in human history and you're only going to have half a dozen examples, that was a bit of an obscure one to single out? I wonder why they...

quote:

Tropes:
It's Not Porn, It's Art : Hex Signs that include sexual images, such as O. Henrietta and Hunter Yoder's hex series "Between The Sheets", which was criticized by the traditional Hex Art community as being "overly Liberal", especially the pieces with pro-feminism themes.

Oh I see. Never mind.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 20:57

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Djeser posted:

It's interesting but it's in a thread full of 'my magic uses heart as an elemental power'.

Yeah, I included it because the idea actually sounds kinda cool, but it's in a thread for "quirks about your setting." Instead of saying "Fantasy Culture X never domesticated the housecat; instead, small semi-tame snakes live in their pantries and kill vermin for them" or whatever, he's introducing his entire setting. And in this overwrought, self-indulgent way, like he's just waiting for someone to notice him.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 21:49

Axeman Jim: Nov 21, 2010; The Canadians replied that they would rather ride a moose.

So I wander over to BTL to see what's up and veterans of previous mock and TVT threads will recognise a familiar face. Geez that guy gets around, even Tropers don't want him.

Taxpayers should fund my sex life dude posted:

And this is a TAC forum so I won't be wasting my time here anymore. Good luck with your dogmas. It will all came crashing down on you sooner than you think.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 22:13

Apple Tree: Sep 8, 2013

i hate meatloaf posted:

Also nearly all of those examples of art come from the Western world, and those that don't are just vague concepts that include Western works. You'd think with the site being so full of weeaboos, they'd at least mention Japanese prints. I'm guessing whoever wrote that page was the one troper who took Survey to Western Art History.

I had a look. Put in the name of the most famous classical artist of Japan: Hokusai. What do we get?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KatsushikaHokusai

quote:

Katsushika Hokusai
We don't have an article named Main/KatsushikaHokusai. If you want to start this new page, just click the edit button above. Be careful, though, the only things that go in the Main namespace are tropes. Don't put in redirects for shows, books, etc.. Use the right namespace for those.

And nothing on 'great wave' either.

So nope, the one traditional Japanese artist everybody's heard of? Nothing. Nada-sama.

Tried putting in 'Kurosawa' as well, to see if film-makers fared any better. Got this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/AkiraKurosawa?from=Main.AkiraKurosawa

quote:

Creator: Akira Kurosawa

"It is wonderful to create."
� Akira Kurosawa
Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998) was a famous Japanese director, mainly known in the West for his samurai films, such as Seven Samurai, Ran and Yojimbo. Other notable films include Rashomon, The Hidden Fortress, Throne of Blood, Ikiru, Dersu Uzala and Sanjuro.
Born on March 23, 1910, Kurosawa is widely considered one of the best and most important directors of the 20th century, Kurosawa made films that were very influential on many American and European film directors. They include George Lucas (the Star Wars series was heavily influenced by The Hidden Fortress), John Sturges (The Magnificent Seven is a direct remake of Seven Samurai) and Sergio Leone (A Fistful of Dollars is a direct remake of Yojimbo). His "Big Four" films (Rashomon, Ikiru, Seven Samurai and Ran) are often � if not always � included in lists of the best films of all time.
Excepting Ikiru, All of his films from 1948's Drunken Angel to 1965's Red Beard featured the actor Toshiro Mifune. In 1965, the two had a falling out during the production of Red Beard and did not speak or see each other until a brief, tearful reunion in 1993. There were rumors that they would have collaborated on Kurosawa's next film after his upcoming project After The Rain, but they both died within a year of each other, with Kurosawa dying before After The Rain began filming. After 1965, there were only a few times where one spoke ill of the other, but otherwise they thought of each other - and their films together - with high regard.
The other actor most identified with Kurosawa is Takashi Shimura. Shimura appeared in Kurosawa's first film, 1943's Sanshiro Sugata and appeared in every one of Kurosawa's films from Sanshiro Sugata to 1965's Red Beard except for The Lower Depths and The Hidden Fortress. Unlike Mifune, however, Kurosawa and Shimura never had a falling out and remained friends until Shimura's death in 1982. Kurosawa wrote a small role for his friend in 1980's Kagemusha, which was cut from the Western release of the film (but has since been added back on the Criterion Collection DVD).
Kurosawa's films are notable for being stunning visually, with beautiful backgrounds, sometimes verging on Scenery Porn. Try watching Ran and not falling in love with some of the shots, or considering it the most beautiful movie ever made.
One of Kurosawa's disappointments was that he never was able to make a Godzilla film, as Toho turned down his requests to do it, fearing that Kurosawa's epic style would completely demolish the usual budget of the franchise.
Kurosawa passed away on September 6, 1998 at the age of 88.

So yeah, let's start by talking about the Western pulp he influenced and wrap up with talking about Godzilla. Let's not forget what's really important, people!

The sad thing is, you get the impression that whoever wrote that actually liked Kurosawa. But when you have to interrupt 'stunning visually, with beautiful backgrounds' and honestly enthusing about how beautiful Ran is with a cheap wisecrack like 'Scenery Porn', it's really time to reevaluate. You cannot talk about loving something beautiful with a word like 'porn'. The terminology excludes the love.

And so as not to end on a lament, I had a look for 'The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife', which is the other Japanese print you'd think they had. And yep, they argue about it on 'Naughty Tentacles.'

So yeah, no Great Wave, but some Naughty Tentacles. Oh boy.

# ? Sep 15, 2013 22:27

Djeser: Mar 22, 2013; it's crow time again

Axeman Jim posted:

So I wander over to BTL to see what's up and veterans of previous mock and TVT threads will recognise a familiar face. Geez that guy gets around, even Tropers don't want him.

Wait, this is the 'my parents should face criminal charges for making me suicidal because they didn't buy me a prostitute without telling me' guy?

Internet singularity approaching :aaaaa:

# ? Sep 15, 2013 23:52

Hoover Dam: Jun 17, 2003; red white and blue forever

HEGEL CURES THESES posted:

Yeah, I included it because the idea actually sounds kinda cool, but it's in a thread for "quirks about your setting." Instead of saying "Fantasy Culture X never domesticated the housecat; instead, small semi-tame snakes live in their pantries and kill vermin for them" or whatever, he's introducing his entire setting. And in this overwrought, self-indulgent way, like he's just waiting for someone to notice him.

Also the setting is the North American frontier, probably around the 1880s or so.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 01:24

LaughMyselfTo: Nov 15, 2012; by XyloJW

Huh, did some poking around, and it turns out that "DA Student" (the pedophile rape game guy who decided it made him a feminist) really has a thing for designing lovely games that are never going to happen. So, in other words, he's aspiring to be the new Arkh.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13558826320A38992400&page=1

LaughMyselfTo fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Sep 16, 2013

# ? Sep 16, 2013 02:07

Medieval Medic: Sep 8, 2011

TheWorldIsSquare posted:

You have a low standard for unreadable. Sorry though.

No such thing as low standards for poo poo. It doesn't really matter if it is nice and hard, has corn kernels or is diarrhea, you still wouldn't want it.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 02:08

Sex Beef 2.0: Jan 14, 2012

Medieval Medic posted:

No such thing as low standards for poo poo. It doesn't really matter if it is nice and hard, has corn kernels or is diarrhea, you still wouldn't want it.

How insightful.

LaughMyselfTo posted:

Huh, did some poking around, and it turns out that "DA Student" (the pedophile rape game guy who decided it made him a feminist) really has a thing for designing lovely games that are never going to happen. So, in other words, he's aspiring to be the new Ark.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13558826320A38992400&page=1

This guy must have been hired to write Hansel & Gretel: Witch Hunters.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 02:12

Benny the Snake: Apr 11, 2012; GUM CHEWING INTENSIFIES

You know there's an interview with David Foster Wallace where he talks about perfectionism and writing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5R8gduPZw4

Essentially if your fidelity to perfectionism is too high you never get it on paper because you end up sacrificing how gorgeous it is. It's a common enough conundrum that all writers go through. Good writers figure out how to compromise. Bad writers commoditize their bad ideas.

Tropers don't dare put their ideas to the real world because any sane person would tell them that their ideas actually need work. So they retreat to their hugbox and share their wretched ideas and feed off eachother. TV Tropes is a giant ouroboros of :jerkbag:

.

In short, David Foster Wallace is turning in his grave so fast he's halfway to China.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 04:47

EagerSleeper: Feb 3, 2010; by R. Guyovich

MinistryofLard posted:

The worst thing about Writers Block is that in the entire list of stupid threads, not once have they got one called "What are your story's themes?"

In fact, googling "TV tropes theme" gives you one page titled "Central Theme" which just lists the themes of the various items they have a page for once in like three words and without any discussion or exploration whatsoever, and the rest is about theme tunes or theme naming.

It really hits home the idea that Tropers have no idea what a book, a TV show, a movie, or even a non-pornographic anime is meant to do.

I was happy at first to be able to contribute something, because I just happened to be able to found a thread titled "What are Your Story's Themes?", but once I actually opened the topic, I was very disappointed to find out that it was made by a dumbass goon who decided to touch the poop.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 06:26

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; What is the Matrix 🌐? We just don't know 😎.; Buglord

Presented without comment, Re-using Original Characters from fanfiction� how much of a bad idea?

quote:

I (like many people) want to write my own original story. Except that my idea re-uses many characters of a recursive fanfiction that I once wrote. Mainly: the original family structure is mostly the same. The protagonist and conflicts change, the setting is completely different (well, it still on earth, but the supernatural changes). I don�t know if I should try to distance myself from that? I don�t think that story is ever going to be published, but I sort want to write it as if it was�

quote:

I've rewritten fanfiction with non-original characters with just changed names and personality tweaks and thus far nobody's noticed. I say go for it.

quote:

If it's your own original character to begin with, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

quote:

Hey I took some fancharacters and gave them a universe after stripping all ties from the characters of that canon. Since then they've grown to where they're hardly recognizable as the fancharacters they were.
I don't see a problem.

quote:

My current batch of characters started as part of a Pokemon fanfic. The canon human characters and other aspects of the world, such as gyms and evil teams, barely existed as it was, so it wasn't too hard to transform their more mundane 'mons into pets and get rid of the rest. The constructed world I had built was drifting further and further away from the source material, so my characters were practically begging to break away.
So, no, reiterating what everyone else before me has said, it isn't a bad idea at all and should be perfectly doable.

A great resource for writers.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 06:40

Cuntellectual: Aug 6, 2010

Lottery of Babylon posted:

This is Trope-tan, their mascot (or "Anthropomorphic Moe Personification"). She has a long page filled with such important facts against her as "Her favorite dance is the Caramelldansen." It also includes fanfiction of her, fanart (most of which is somehow worse than the original image), a Maid RPG statblock for her, and a list of what her attacks would totally look like if she were in Super Smash Bros.

It is an art

Someone made SA-Tan, which I thought at least was a mildly amusing pun. :v:

# ? Sep 16, 2013 06:58

Apple Tree: Sep 8, 2013

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IntelligenceEqualsIsolation

quote:

Intelligence Equals Isolation

"Being the smartest kid in class is like being the only kid in class."
� Dr. Spencer Reid, "Elephant's Memory", Criminal Minds

This trope is about characters or people, mostly but not necessarily in college, who are very smart and suffer for it, being unable to relate to the mundane worries and shallow personalities of their comrades, as well as being bored out of their skulls by the mandatory classes. Nothing is as depressing as having to correct the teacher, except not doing so for fear of the teacher getting mad. Sometimes they use Obfuscating Stupidity, but if their parents demand grades, and they get them, their classmates can get jealous, which can lead to bullying of various sorts. Too often Truth in Television.

Depending on which neuroscientific theory one subscribes to, the trope name is quite literal: Those with more intelligence have a higher rate of disorders of some kind that can factor heavily in inducing social isolation. This is especially true if they attend a school with separate programs for people with those disorders, such as students within the autism spectrum (regardless of what specific disorders they show), taking tests separately from other students along with extended time. While beneficial, that practically makes this an institutionally-enforced situation!

When this intelligence is combined with a talent for manipulation, and possibly some good looks, you get an explosive mixture: add some Applied Phlebotinum or an Artifact of Doom and you might get a Magnificent Bastard, with the potential to be a very interesting X-tagonist. If, in addition to that, they are benevolent and feel compelled by their intelligence to improve the world, you might get a very effective Well-Intentioned Extremist who thinks Utopia Justifies the Means, and who might become a Knight Templar. If, instead, they are a Nietzsche Wannabe, beware: high intelligence leads to questioning, and, in Morals, when you find out there aren't any readily made answers, you might settle for "there aren't any answers at all, so just do what you want"... With enough Motive Decay, can become an Omnicidal Maniac and a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds.

Note that this is not just about popularity with others, although that's certainly part of it. There are examples of smart people who are popular with others but still feel that their intelligence isolates them. It's pretty difficult to find common ground when explaining your thoughts bores others, after all.
This may be portrayed as An Aesop, either showing that this isn't something you would want to strive to become, or that the person who is always by themself isn't quite the freak everyone thinks they are.

A form of Blessed with Suck. Compare Eating Lunch Alone and Broken Ace. A counter-part tropes is Popular Is Dumb. May or may not include elements of Loners Are Freaks. Often used as a justification for why Dumb Is Good: dumb people may be made fun of, but they won't be hassled and harassed for it. Contrast with Gentleman and a Scholar, when a smart guy is well-liked and lacks none of the social graces.

Intelligence is only virtuous if you're socially clueless and unattractive. It only makes things worse when possessed by those handsome, likeable bastards! :argh:

And let's check out the Real Life examples:

quote:

Putting aside any of the various mental issues discussed, just picture the last time you talked to somebody and everything you said went completely over the other person's head. Now imagine a lifetime of that. GT programs, boarding schools, specialized high schools for gifted students, and prestigious colleges or advanced degree programs (physics, pure mathematics, engineering, etc.) can be godsends that really prove intelligence was the only barrier.

Because 'advance degree programs' consist of 'physics, pure mathematics, engineering etc'. Arts degrees like, oh, say, studying literature? Not advanced.

And you know how I found this piece of wisdom? By doing a TVTropes search for 'anti-intellectualism'. :irony:

# ? Sep 16, 2013 08:34

Decus: Feb 24, 2013

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ButNotTooEvil

Maybe I just don't 'get' tvtropes, but man have I never understood why they have pages like this or most of the ones linked therein. I think I can see where such a page might have started and not been terrible/full of terrible things.

quote:

No matter how clear a series makes it that the villain is not to be admired, some evil acts genuinely aren't appropriate for all audiences. This is why fairly light kids' shows like Scooby-Doo have their villains committing the more mundane crimes (theft, fraud, etc.) rather than the more disturbing ones (rape, graphic torture, etc.)

Alright, that seems like sound advice, yeah. But then...

quote:

To be fair, one of the oldest ways of Getting Crap Past the Radar is to create a Magnificent Bastard who outsmarts everyone, is much cooler than the heroes, and lives a life of (vividly described) debauchery, but gets killed in the last five minutes. Then the creators appease the Moral Guardians by saying, "Hey, he loses. That proves that all the debauchery and lying we showed isn't something you root for." (Goes at least as far back as Don Giovanni.) After Moral Guardians realize they've been hoaxed this way, they become paranoid and assume that any villain who succeeds at all is a case of Getting Crap Past the Radar.

The...what? A rant that both makes little to no sense and tries to use an 18th century play that has little to do with the topic at hand to validate it (Don Juan might be the more familiar name)? Seriously. This is one of those trope pages that really sells the troper obsession with wrapping everything in nonsensical complexity to the point that the point is missed. It even captures their love of the 'magnificent bastard'. Pop quiz time!

The author decided to kill the overconfident villain in the end. Did he so do because:
A) Karma
B) The Villain's Hubris demanded death
C) He wanted to get crap past the censors! No way would a magnificent bastard have lost otherwise!
D) Other

If you answered anything other than C, congratulations, you probably aren't touching the poop!

I expect a goldmine once I eventually dive into their "The Bible" pages, which apparently assign tropes to The Bible book by book. Links to tropes named after Harry Potter fanfics all over that poo poo or bust. Sadly, no Song of Songs page to laugh at but somehow on The Bible page somebody said that 'getting crap past the radar' fits it. Basically, a troper thought the language used in Song of Songs was for censorship purposes above all else...somehow.

# ? Sep 16, 2013 09:47

Apple Tree: Sep 8, 2013

quote:

A rant that both makes little to no sense and tries to use an 18th century play that has little to do with the topic at hand to validate it (Don Juan might be the more familiar name)?

They probably saw that bit out of the opera in Amadeus. Mind you, if you class the Commendatore's final appearance in that opera as anything other than an excuse to write some loving awesome music, I have nothing to say to you.

To be fair, there is such a thing as a tacked-on fall for the villain to keep the author out of trouble or to get past the censors. It's just a rather old-fashioned thing. Apparently, for instance, the American release of Kind Hearts and Coronets insisted on adding a scene in which the incriminating memoirs are found* - but that was under the Hays code. And it's not really a 'trope', because it isn't so much part of the story as it is a case of a story distorting around external pressures. You could, if you were interesting, look at different ways in which writers deal with those pressures - how films try to avoid an NC-17 rating nowadays would be a good modern example - but it would mean you had to know about history and culture and laws and stuff outside the realm of fiction, and involve a lot more :effort:

.

*http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...0ending&f=false

# ? Sep 16, 2013 10:40

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; What is the Matrix 🌐? We just don't know 😎.; Buglord

quote:

Eventually, this accretion of fan-born details and mutations turns into things that "everybody knows" about the series. Those new to or unfamiliar with the original material are frequently confused into believing that it obviously must be canon if so many people mention it, even "facts" of the Epileptic Trees variety. This is especially the case with series that have long runs and which gloss over details which are unimportant to the plot but are of interest to the fans and the fan writers.

One famous example of this is the anime Ranma 1/2, released well before the Internet became ubiquitous and when many fans had no easy access to the original source material. All manner of details (including the explanation of Akane's mallet as either a ki attack or as residing in a hyperdimensional pocket, her Flanderization into a "psychobitch", her lethal cooking (rather than being just bad), and the names and fates of the many missing mothers) were never touched on in the show but became standardized in Ranma fan fiction over the course of approximately a decade. The process was accelerated and exacerbated by the appearance of fanfiction written by people who had never actually seen the show itself and whose only exposure to Ranma was other fanfiction.

Another famous example is the Harry Potter fanfic The Draco Trilogy, which was apparently so widely read that details such as Blaise Zabini being female and Ginny's name being Virginia were taken to be canon, although they were both refuted by later books.

It's not surprising that fans of some shows occasionally pen FAQs solely to reduce the accumulation of fanon in this way.

There fanfiction recommendation page is incredibly large and features recommendations for fanfic based on iCarly, BEN DROWNED (Yes, the Zelda thing) and Bionicle (The Lego toyline).

# ? Sep 17, 2013 03:45

Lottery of Babylon: Apr 25, 2012; STRAIGHT TROPIN'

Apple Tree posted:

And it's not really a 'trope', because it isn't so much part of the story as it is a case of a story distorting around external pressures.

At least that one has some effect on the writing process; compared to Incest Yay Shipping, it actually sounds like it would be worth talking about (if they people talking about it had any actual knowledge or background).

Incest Yay Shipping, incidentally, features such examples as ponies, Toad/Toadette from the Mario games, and several real people like Lindsay Lohan and her sister. It also says that one show has a separate subpage dedicated exclusively to Brother-Sister Incest in that show alone, but thankfully that page seems to have since been deleted.

vvvv I didn't even notice that one, there were multiple shows with their own special Brother-Sister Incest pages?

Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Sep 17, 2013

# ? Sep 17, 2013 04:17

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; What is the Matrix 🌐? We just don't know 😎.; Buglord

quote:

Justin and Alex in Wizards of Waverly Place - the point where the pairing used to have a separate Incest Yay page, until it was sent here.

Quite common in recent Kamen Rider series. Especially Kamen Rider Kiva and its many bathing scenes. However, "Kivacest" typically refers not to Wataru and Otoya despite their epic Time Travel-enabled bath scene (with back scrubbing!) but to Wataru and Taiga, who turns out to be his brother.

The majority of the Supernatural fandom, known as Wincest shippers, see this between Sam and Dean Winchester.
It has died down a bit since Castiel showed up, though.

The Wizards page was moved to the Fetish Fuel wiki, a section of the site excised for being loving creepy, even by troper standards, during one of the earlier threads.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 04:31

vetinari100: Nov 8, 2009; > Make her pay.

Apple Tree posted:

They probably saw that bit out of the opera in Amadeus. Mind you, if you class the Commendatore's final appearance in that opera as anything other than an excuse to write some loving awesome music, I have nothing to say to you.

I'm afraid I have some bad news for you.

TvTropes posted:

Brick Joke: The music that the Commendatore sings as he drags Giovanni to hell is a reprise of the overture which began the opera. These days, overtures usually contain the "highlights" of the rest of the show (every musical does it), but in Mozart's time, it was practically unheard of to repeat material from the overture in the actual opera.

Yes, repeating the motif from the beginning is equivalent to a brick joke.

Looking around the page:

TvTropes posted:

I Am Song: Subverted as it's in fact sung by Leporello, first about the list of the Don's conquests and then about his usual methods for getting them.

TvTropes posted:

The Ophelia: Subverted with Elvira; she isn't crazy at all, but Giovanni tries to convince Anna and Ottavio of this when they come to him seeking help.

TvTropes posted:

Unrequited Love: Subverted with Giovanni, who loves all women and thus refuses to be cruel to them by being constant to a single one � or so he says.

I.e. it's something completely different from the listed trope.

TvTropes posted:

Values Dissonance: These days, Elvira's one wild night of passion with Giovanni wouldn't ruin her chances at marriage.

These days, almost no one would claim you deserve going to hell for not wanting to marry every woman you had sex with, ever.

Oh no, poor Giovanni, punished for havind sex outside marriage, and not the fact that he, you know, cheated on countless women.

TvTropes posted:

Tsundere: Masetto accuses his fiancee of being a hussy before she's said more than two words to Don Giovanni but reverts into a loving husband whenever there's no pesky interested man within 500 yards of his girl.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 11:02

Apple Tree: Sep 8, 2013

vetinari100 posted:

Oh no, poor Giovanni, punished for havind sex outside marriage, and not the fact that he, you know, cheated on countless women.

Or, you know, begins the opera with a bit of attempted rape and actual murder. Hello :tvtropes:

, top o the mornin to you.

quote:

At least that one has some effect on the writing process; compared to Incest Yay Shipping, it actually sounds like it would be worth talking about (if they people talking about it had any actual knowledge or background).

That's the thing, though: Incest Yuck Shipping is the stuff they do have actual knowledge and background in. It's the pretentiousness that truly puts it in the mockery cross hairs. If instead of calling itself TVTropes it called itself OverInvestedRaincoats.com, and instead of boasting that it talks about 'the tricks of the trade' it boasted that it was 'the world's biggest insider club for fandom' or something like that, it might actually have some 'academic' value, at least anthropologically. When they talk about fan fiction, they know whereof they speak.

Whereas actual culture ... hm, let's look at some more Mozart operas.

The Magic Flute?

quote:

Everyone Is Jesus in Purgatory: Some people will insist that every single thing in the opera is a Masonic symbol, including that the music being based on triads symbolizes the Masonic significance of the number 3.note

Gee, you think? Wow, I thought that plot made perfect sense without Masonry!

quote:

The Scrappy: Monostatos; in most productions he isn't the least bit funny.
Which would make him an Ethnic Scrappy if you're dealing with a production that is faithful to the text, as opposed to ones that omit the racist elements of his character.

Monostatos is supposed to be funny? Guess I missed all the wah-wah-waahhhs in his music.

quote:

Unfortunate Implications: The demonisation of all things associated with blackness, femininity, and the "yin" principle in general could be seen as having racist and/or mysogynist undertones. Monostatos (who is black) and the Queen of the Night and her ladies (who are women and who naturally represent darkness) are made out to be evil.

Boys? That's not an implication. It's a direct statement. It 'could be seen' that way? Who do you think is not going to see it that way? No, please don't answer that.

How about Cosi Fan Tutte? Wish me luck, I'm going in...

quote:

The third collaboration of one Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Lorenzo da Ponte, Cos� fan tutte (roughly translated as "Thus do all [women]" or, more idiomatically, "They [women] are all like that") is an opera buffa, with catchy tunes, a subverted Love Dodecahedron and a very Warped Aesop by today's standards. The plot was allegedly based on a story told to the Austrian Emperor, who allegedly requested an opera based on it.

'Subverted Love Dodecahedron'? This is non-Euclidean enough to make Lovecraft wake screaming from a wet dream.

And what's a Warped Aesop? Well, actually this links to 'Family Unfriendly Aesop':

quote:

Everyone knows the Stock Aesops. Be happy with what you have, friendship is more important than money, dream of better things. Sometimes these morals contradict each other, but nobody is surprised to see any of them in a story.

But there are also morals that don't appear in fiction very often. Morals like "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished," "Don't show charity because other people are degenerate freeloaders," "You shouldn't be afraid to Be a Whore to Get Your Man," or "Sometimes Violence Really Is the Answer." They aren't exactly wrong messages, but it still seems... jarring, somehow, to see figures in media trying to teach them, especially to children.

Do this and you have a Family Unfriendly Aesop. You're presenting a moral lesson that makes your audience a bit uncomfortable, in a way that still makes it hard to argue with.

...Wow.

And here's the last trope of that page:

quote:

Wig, Dress, Accent: How the fiances disguise themselves.

Yep. 'Wig, Dress, Accent' is a trope.

Excuse me, I'm just going to lie down and cry for a while.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 12:38

made of bees: May 21, 2013

Apple Tree posted:

Boys? That's not an implication. It's a direct statement. It 'could be seen' that way? Who do you think is not going to see it that way? No, please don't answer that.

"Unfortunate Implications" exists because of the philosophy summed up in this line from the front page:

TVTropes posted:

We are also not a wiki for bashing things. Once again, we're about celebrating fiction, not showing off how snide and sarcastic we can be.

In other words, if there's the anyone else on the wiki that might like a thing, any criticism of it has to be very carefully marked as a personal opinion. Which means for anything less than The Birth of a Nation, you can't call it racist, the best you can do is say sure it looks racist, but maybe they didn't mean it that way.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 12:56

Apple Tree: Sep 8, 2013

made of bees posted:

We are also not a wiki for bashing things. Once again, we're about celebrating fiction, not showing off how snide and sarcastic we can be.

Because of course, there's no better way to celebrate fiction than to do everything in your power to eliminate quality as a standard for judging it by. Everyone knows that true lovers of an art form don't care about its artistry! I'm a food-lover, that's why I think everyone should eat maggoty meat! :bang:

And yeah, the Net's ful of lovely snark which is every bit as stupid as the obsessive troping. They just seem resistant to the idea that there might be a middle ground known as 'the place where people aren't stupid.'

Apple Tree fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Sep 17, 2013

# ? Sep 17, 2013 13:15

Lottery of Babylon: Apr 25, 2012; STRAIGHT TROPIN'

made of bees posted:

Which means for anything less than The Birth of a Nation, you can't call it racist, the best you can do is say sure it looks racist, but maybe they didn't mean it that way.

Looking at their The Birth of a Nation page, they aren't even willing to call that racist. The opening quote is someone saying it's racist, and they say things like "People don't consider this film racist for nothing" and "Even during the "Nadir of American race relations" it was considered racist", but they refuse to make the leap from saying "some people consider this racist" to "yeah this is racist".

I expected the YMMV page wouldn't be so coy, but even it only directly calls the movie racist once, and that's to say that the racism is hilarious. It also says this:

YMMV posted:

Family Unfriendly Aesop: No kidding.
* This is actually a rather strange case. Notice how at the beginning of the film it says that the characteristics applied to certain races don�t necessarily apply anymore, and how the director strongly denied that it was racist? You could also interpret the film as saying that you shouldn�t grant a lot of responsibility to people who are grossly unprepared for it.

Maybe The Birth of a Nation is racist, maybe it isn't. I dunno, your mileage may vary on this one. It's really subjective and open to interpretation.

The main page is willing to directly state that Woodrow Wilson is racist, though; I guess they're terrified of pissing off the legions of The Birth of a Nation fans who deny that it's racist but don't care about him? Incidentally, Woodrow Wilson is also a trope, and his page contains the line "Good Flaws, Bad Flaws: His racism is in the blurred area between them." Racism: A Good Flaw

# ? Sep 17, 2013 16:45

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Apple Tree posted:

Because of course, there's no better way to celebrate fiction than to do everything in your power to eliminate quality as a standard for judging it by. Everyone knows that true lovers of an art form don't care about its artistry! I'm a food-lover, that's why I think everyone should eat maggoty meat!

I guess Kevin Smith must be their role model then :v:

(Well, outside of Whedon at least)

# ? Sep 17, 2013 16:52

Apple Tree: Sep 8, 2013

Oh, they're only coy about it if they're finding for the 'celebration'. Here's what they say about Gone With The Wind:

quote:

Both the source novel and the studios of the Golden Age of Hollywood tended to romanticize the South, and so this is one of the most romantic films ever made, whether you want it to be or not. Still, the movie was somewhat progressive for its time - it gave several roles to African American actors when Hollywood was trying its best to push them out, and Hattie McDaniel's win for Best Supporting Actress was the first Oscar given to a black person.

(http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/GoneWithTheWind?from=Main.GoneWithTheWind)

Think The Birth of a Nation is racist? I dunno, YMMV. Think Gone With The Wind is racist? Nope, it's romantic, and if you don't like it, suck it up.

quote:

Convenient Miscarriage: Scarlett takes a fall down a flight of stairs, and Melanie has a miscarriage which eventually leads to her death.

Because dying is incredibly convenient, when you think about it. It solves all your worries permanently.

And what tropes does it contain? By my count, one hundred and ninety-one ... and how many of those are race-related? If you don't count 'Deep South', and I refuse to count a geographical location as a race-related observation ... loving four. 'Mammy', 'Scary Black Man', 'Sassy Black Woman', and 'Jive Turkey' Iamsosorryfortypingthat. One of the two greatest pieces of race propaganda American culture has ever produced, known for indelibly inscribing archetype after archetype on cultural history? That's your lot. The whole thing. Their comprehensive take.

Oh, except for 'Politically Correct History', which gets this in-depth observation:

quote:

One common criticism of the film. It's gotten to the point where "Gone With The Wind" is synonymous with a view of American Civil War history that glorifies the Confederacy and downplays the importance of slavery.'

Oh, and links to this little gem:

quote:

Naturally, historical accuracy should not be expected for works that clearly take place in The Theme Park Version of their genre: if your story already concerns King Arthur and Robin Hood teaming up to fight a Humongous Mecha, it may be to the story's detriment to depict realistic social and race relations. Racism is a heavy-thinking topic, and would likely just get in the way of the entertainment goals of the production. The true litmus test is how seriously the work appears to take itself. The more so, the less excuse there is for whitewashing.

Note that political correctness has not always been merely an accusation leveled against the political left by the political right. The term may be used to describe something "corrected" to any political dogma. What is politically correct to one group might be highly offensive to another...

What's especially frustrating about this trope is the "all-or-nothing" stance its practitioners implicitly take toward historiography. To them, either the past had to be exactly like the present or it is completely incompatible with the modern era. Very rarely do we see anything in between. It would be more reasonable show the past as what it really was. On the subject of race, for example, you could show nonwhite characters comfortably integrated into at least some circles of white society but disproportionately absent from the upper echelons. Or you could show white characters unwilling to actively associate with other races but still free of overt racial bigotry.

(http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PoliticallyCorrectHistory)

You know, I can think of something awfully convenient and worry-solving that should happen to TVTropes.

# ? Sep 17, 2013 17:11

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Yea show it how it really was, white people not wanting to associate with minorities but not being racist about it!

# ? Sep 17, 2013 17:24

DicktheCat: Feb 15, 2011

I think I hate these people.

:stare:

# ? Sep 17, 2013 17:33

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 08:08

Apple Tree: Sep 8, 2013

TVTropes was not useful, but people seldom realised it when caught by its charm as the tropers were. On its pages were too sharply blended the intellectual aspirations of its ego, the butthurt of kids who never forgave their English teacher for saying that Robert Jordan wasn't serious literature, and the heavy-handedness of its spergy cataloguing set-up. But it was an arresting site, legible of font, moderate of color scheme. Its pages were tinged blue with the million links each possessed, spiked with references to endless other stubs and usually semi-coherent in language. Beneath it, prejudices and disturbing fetishes roiled amidst its endlessly accepting followers, creating a startling downward slope for anyone who looked too closely - those observers so resolved to laugh instead of cry and so careful to cut and paste, parody and despair.

Sitting there on the Internet on that mild autumn day of September 17, 2013, it was not a pretty sight...

Apple Tree fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Sep 17, 2013

# ? Sep 17, 2013 17:37

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > TV Trops

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