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MinistryofLard
Mar 22, 2013


Wait, the guy wrote a script that actively checks for sockpuppets, and made it publicly available?

Meanwhile, he has two sockpuppets of his own - one where he pretends to be an attractive asian woman () as well as another sockpuppet who he claims died.

And at no point did he think that in making this script publicly available somebody might consider using it on him and realise that he is pretending to be an attractive asian woman.

There is not enough in the world.

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made of bees
May 21, 2013


Did he just not respond when you told him about the account thing? I'd think as paranoid as he is about SA he'd double-check that poo poo was secure even if he thought you were lying.

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

Try looking into that place where you dare not look! You'll find me there, staring out at you!


made of bees posted:

Did he just not respond when you told him about the account thing? I'd think as paranoid as he is about SA he'd double-check that poo poo was secure even if he thought you were lying.

Ego has a bad tendency to overrule sense.

Smoking Crow
Feb 13, 2012



Nm

Brother Jonathan
Jun 23, 2008


Posting from their mod-only forums would be a clear case of poop-touching. Don't touch the poop!

Edit: Ignore the above. Just don't touch anything!

Brother Jonathan fucked around with this message at Sep 14, 2013 around 03:04

Yeah Bro
Feb 4, 2012



Dauntasa posted:

You should totally check out the mod-forum.

Maybe Sawboss is doing it differently from how I did it a during the previous threads, but I could never figure out a way of accessing the mod-only forum while being Fast Eddie. I could see the titles of the threads in there, but couldn't actually read the content of them.

Impatient Skype JO
Nov 26, 2011

leave a sign ... something witchy

you posted:

your text here

Dark Souls posted:

imminent beating to a pulp


made of bees posted:

Did he just not respond when you told him about the account thing? I'd think as paranoid as he is about SA he'd double-check that poo poo was secure even if he thought you were lying.

The first time I told him, he banned my account. The second time, he just insulted me, and the third time he didn't say anything.


As for the sock puppet tool, it only cross-references IPs based on your current IP. I guess he never anticipated someone other than him signing into his account.

And as for mod forums, Yeah Bro, there's virtually no security. It's more like a maze than anything, even when just looking around using the front end like we are. The whole site structure is a joke. People who register there are at huge risk, even if they're just making lurker accounts.

e: which is to say, goons, think twice about registering there even to just lurk or whatever. Passwords are still stored as plaintext (on the forum itself, no less) and worse. If you already had an account, make sure your password there is different from all your others.

Impatient Skype JO fucked around with this message at Sep 14, 2013 around 02:17

LaughMyselfTo
Nov 15, 2012


I always used 123456 type passwords at TVTropes because I knew the system was worthless anyways.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

Our future is at stake.


LaughMyselfTo posted:

This was posted in one of the old threads, but it bears repeating:

I write as a hobby, and that actually hurt to read. I'm not even talking about the tropes itself (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he's translating the concepts into TVTrope Language), but in his approach to the situation he's describing. He's treating it like a video game (I have X healing potions that heal Y health points and a character has Z damage!) instead of a thematic issue of scarcity. Why would someone do that?

Smoking Crow
Feb 13, 2012



nm. Senor Blacksmith changed his mind.

Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at Sep 14, 2013 around 14:39

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!


MisterBibs posted:

I write as a hobby, and that actually hurt to read. I'm not even talking about the tropes itself (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he's translating the concepts into TVTrope Language), but in his approach to the situation he's describing. He's treating it like a video game (I have X healing potions that heal Y health points and a character has Z damage!) instead of a thematic issue of scarcity. Why would someone do that?

I saw a trope page where someone explained that if you can't come up with a good story, just play D&D and write about the events that happen in the game. It's amazing how that idiot writer takes it so literally that he writes into a corner.

Smoking Crow
Feb 13, 2012



Omega Shadowcry posted:

Symphony's guitar barely managed to ring out over the screams, gurgles, and roars of these Paintings In Flesh.
But it did.
Each note was its own sonic boom, a Shock to The System.
LAAAAAAAAAME - S
"FEEL MY FURY! KNOW MY NAME!"
"I AM SAMUEL MOTHERF@***IING DOPPLER!"

Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at Sep 14, 2013 around 04:10

purple_sammich
Feb 3, 2010


What I really love about the TVT forums is this:

Main Forum Rules posted:

You may have no more than 10 user accounts. There is an automated system which will site ban users with more than 10 accounts.

If you forget your password there's no way to recover it so you have to make a new account entirely. At least that's how it was last time I checked, I dunno if Eddie actually fixed that since the last thread.

Red Metal
Oct 23, 2012

Let me tell you about Homestuck



purple_sammich posted:

What I really love about the TVT forums is this:


If you forget your password there's no way to recover it so you have to make a new account entirely. At least that's how it was last time I checked, I dunno if Eddie actually fixed that since the last thread.

Changing your password requires you to be logged in, and there's no password recovery/reset system, so if you get stuck outside your account you're SOL.

Lottery of Babylon
Apr 25, 2012

STRAIGHT TROPIN'

Why Do People Even Care About Unfortunate Implications?

burnpsy posted:

After seeing this post, I have a question to pose to all of you.

Why do people care about Unfortunate Implications in stuff they write? If one of my ideas sounds sexist or something and I want to write it, I just go for it and ignore the implications. I simply don't care what others think. I find it rather baffling to waste time avoiding issues like that when they're free advertising no matter how you slice it...

burnpsy posted:

@nrjxll: While I'll admit that I subconciously block out the especially offensive stuff for that reason you listed, to be perfectly honest, why waste your time self-censoring when, as you said, someone will be up in arms anyway.

@Karalora: You can be creative and still end up with Unfortunate Implications.

Oh So Into Cats posted:

It's like the catch-22 of white people and POC helping each other. If a POC helps a white person it's racist because it implies that the white person's problems are more important, if it's a white person helping a POC then it's also racist because it shows that the POC would not have been able to reach their goals without white person intervention. So obviously the only solution is that different races should just not help each other.

Stormthorn posted:

"It's like the catch-22 of white people and POC helping each other...."

Yes, that. Thats why i hate the whole idea of the Magical Negro trope because if it was a white person with mystical qualities helping a mundane black person learn a life lessor or get through tough time, people will say its just Mighty Whitey at work.

I tend to advocate not carring if you offend people because someone will complain about anything you write.

A lot of people didnt like The Legend of Bagger Vance because it portrays a black person who may be god helping some white guy. Since the ancient mythical text the story is from has a man who is a slave in all but name being god and helping a royal updating it to the pre-civil-rights south makes perfect sense, but that doesnt stop people from whining about racism. (1)

Now you dont HAVE to write to offend people, but stuff like South Park suggests that doing so will get you rich and famous, but I think it would be better to have upright and deep personal morals and not care if random people just cant get it.

(1) In the movie version maybe people would have complained less if Will Smith suddenly turned into the avatar of annihilation and gave Juna a lecture on entropy.

Robotnik posted:

quote:

And it's kind of dickish to say "Well, people will always complain, so therefore I will never listen to anyone's complaints, ever."
Yeah, because it's not "dickish" at all to demand that people write things your way. And yes, demanding is what you're doing. That relies on the assumption that all or even most critcism is made in good faith with the intent of actually helping the writer become a better writer, and not just the critic trying to make sure their own agenda is advanced.

Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with advancing an agenda. Everyone does it, and everyone should. But there's no objective moral high ground to lay claim to either.

Majormarks posted:

My stance is that if you get offended by something I say or do, that's a problem on your end.

I never intend to offend anyone, and I respect people enough that I won't censor myself for their delicate ears.

Benny the Snake
Apr 10, 2012

HAIL HYDRA

Namtab posted:

I remember that one of the reasons the last thread turned out lovely was because someone took it upon himself to quote every even slightly skeevy trope off their Ghost in the Shell trope page, with liberal use of as a punchline instead of putting any real effort into being funny.

So yeah, let's put some effort into mocking these loving dorks.

Smoking Crow, there's another troperfic link for the OP because you assholes made me read KIKEN and I'll be damned if I'm not going to loving spread that misery as much as possible.
That was me. I'm sorry about that by the way: I should have known better than trying to take the piss out of TVT

Any who, its good to see the regulars again. Here's hoping this thread doesn't end up getting gassed.

Benny the Snake fucked around with this message at Sep 14, 2013 around 06:24

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010
I'm conducting an experiment to see if removing your shitty avatar will improve your shitty taste in black metal

Sawboss Jones posted:

The first time I told him, he banned my account. The second time, he just insulted me, and the third time he didn't say anything.
How did you not respond by just vandalizing the poo poo out of the website until he fixed it? And how did you resist the temptation of seeing if you could ban other admins/the account you're on?

I mean, obviously, don't touch the poop now. But if I'd already put the effort into it back then, I would have at least hosed with him until I got bored.

Jerry Manderbilt
May 31, 2012



The YMMV page for Touhou: Watch them go nuts about everything that did (or didn't) happen in their Touhou games.

edit: Man, I almost forgot about Colonel McBadass; he's probably still grudgewanking us in the comments section of This Troper videos

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010

... all the pronouns


Jerry Manderbilt posted:

edit: Man, I almost forgot about Colonel McBadass; he's probably still grudgewanking us in the comments section of This Troper videos
Oh yeah, he was great. He threatened me on my youtube page because I laughed at him. I ended up just deleting the comment but it was something like "rear end in a top hat, I know where you live. I hate to be the one to tell you but I'm gonna make your life a torment and hell from this day until the day you die."

His revenge is yet forthcoming.

SC Bracer
Aug 7, 2012

DEMAGLIO!


Oh McBadass! I regularly get threats from him on my now-defunct channel. Even if he does know where I live, it's not like he's going to be able to take an international flight just to gently caress me up so

He's currently posting by the name The Voice, and likes to post long screeds about how The Voice Will Be Heard.

Jerry Manderbilt
May 31, 2012



And man, if we're going to bring up the worst Tropers, is the "Don't talk about Draven" rule going to be reinstated?

mysterious loyall Y
Nov 3, 2012

IF I COULD BE ANY KIND OF FLOWER I'D BE A BIG ANGRY COCK

It's good to see this thread make a comeback - I actually started actively lurking here because of following the first few during boring lectures, which may have increased their entertainment value a bit. Hopefully it doesn't get bogged down in the occasional weird turns the third and particularly fourth threads took, like the multi-page discussion about how everyone who gets bullied in school deserves it and shouldn't receive sympathy, and the brief but perplexing exchange about how liking turn-based RPGs literally makes you a bad person.

Jerry Manderbilt posted:

And man, if we're going to bring up the worst Tropers, is the "Don't talk about Draven" rule going to be reinstated?
There's already plenty of him over in the tumblr thread. I'd really rather not see any more of him than that, to be honest. Is he still actually posting on TVTropes?

Lottery of Babylon
Apr 25, 2012

STRAIGHT TROPIN'

Characters stuck in neutral

Twentington posted:

I try, but I just can't seem to get my characters going. I put them in situations in my head, but they never do anything. They just stay there motionliess. I try poking them, but nothing happens.

I know these characters have potential, but I'm never sure where to take them. What am I doing wrong?
"Have you tried examining their motivations?"

Twentington posted:

And I never come up with anything more specific than "This one wants a sausage pizza and a Coke" or "this one wants to have sex" or "this one likes to wear argyle".

I have almost no goals set for myself (other than getting on Wheel of Fortune); how am I gonna set any for someone else?
"Have you tried actually writing anything?"

Twentington posted:

All that comes out is Porn Without Plot most of the time.
"Uh, okay, get that out of your system, then try writing something else?"

Twentington posted:

To more and more Porn Without Plot. And then more and more Porn Without Plot. And then more and more Porn Without Plot. And then more and more Porn Without Plot. And then more and more Porn Without Plot. And then more and more Porn Without Plot.
"So, what you're saying is no matter what happens, the characters' only response is to gently caress? Two characters are in a building, the fire alarm goes off - they gently caress."

Twentington posted:

That's always been a sticking point for me. I never think of impacting or dangerous situations, since I've never been in one. My life is almost absurdly mundane most of the time.

I don't know how I would react if I were in any given situation; how the hell am I gonna figure out how someone else would?!

ETA: I'm not saying that, to write about, say, flying a spaceship, you have to actually fly one yourself. But even something somewhat accessible and down-to-earth, like going to a five-star restaurant, or getting in a traffic accident, or getting lost in the woods, is something I've never experienced.

Twentington posted:

A couple of the things I do have anywhere near established are the setting, and some vague ideas of the characters. But I can barely get beyond minor things like "this one is adopted, a bit shy, but also a horndog" or "this one likes to cook". Just little things like that.

Every time I do pick a situation for them, it's like, "okay, if they were in this situation, I think they might possibly maybe do this, bit I'm totally not effing sure, and have no clue if that is in-character for them." How do I know if it's right for them to do that?

My characters don't have any personalities because I made them just by sticking a couple of tropes together and calling it a day, therefore I don't know what their personalities are, therefore I can't write anything for fear of contradicting the personalities they don't have (???), therefore I just write porn. It's okay though, I have a great idea for a setting!

Twentington has been posting in Writer's Block for years now, and the fruits of their labors are a handful of lifeless ragdolls except one of them has "Adopted Stepchild + Shrinking Violet + Obvious Pervert" duct-taped to his face.

Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at Sep 14, 2013 around 15:30

Volume
May 2, 2008


Don't forget about Beyond The Lampshade where banned and bitter tropers go to keep on being horrible people and learn nothing. They hate us, they hate TvTropes but they still love their lolicon.

I think they jumped to a new server and a lot of posts were lost but there was classics such as

quote:

I don't see what the big deal is. My 20 year old brother got a 14 year old pregnant and they're doing alright.

and

quote:

It's not fair to call me a pedophile because it's ok in my country to have sex with children.

Djeser
Mar 22, 2013

the stars come out
or they don't


Tropers definitely find the act of creating a work hard. You know what's not hard, though? Naming your works!

Your Work's Titles

Samui Kizu posted:

The only one with a definitive title so far is "Dragon Tales" ( as in fairy tales if that wasn't obvious ). Main character is a dragon ( in human-ish form ) and he encounters all kinds of fantasy stuff, but unlike normal fantasy, it's as realistic and scientifically accurate as I can make it without getting it proof read by actual scientists. And the occasional offenses can conveniently be handwaved by the MC's eccentric/trickster mentor being a *something* ( even I have no clue wth she/it is ) so mind-boggingly powerful that she can play around with things like the limit of infinity and the boundary of existence.

My story is about a furry dragon and there's fantasy stuff but it's all serious and cool and there's a mentor who can do monkeycheese powerful stuff.

KW posted:

Eternal Bushido

Eternal Revolution

Eternal Raising

Eternal Bushido

Endless Karate

Forever Fist

Oh So Into Cats posted:

I am contemplating titling my current work WARNING: Contains Spiders. The story contains spiders and I keep forgetting that a lot of people won't read that. If a book is full of spiders so that once you open it they leap off the pages and down your shirt readers apparently need adequate warning.

no I haven't read This Book Is Full Of Spiders what are you talking about

Darkblood Carnagefang posted:

The only two I've named so far:

Strike Force Alpha-Omega: A Genre Busting mix of Anime genres, Superhero tropes, and Toku references put into a blender on the 'speed whip' setting, as well as a heavy amount of Shout Outs to Indiana Jones movies, James Bond, H.P. Lovecraft stories, Film Noir, among many other things.

Magical Girl Card Assault: Something like Yu-Gi-Oh!, but with Magical Girls as the battle monsters. I kind of want to make it into an actual card game.

If works of fiction could wear fedoras these would be wearing the ones with a feather in the brim.

Red Eyes Negro Dragon posted:

Lament of a Ghetto Knight: A fantasy story following the life of the once legendary songsword known as Blacknight - master of the Wu-Tang sword style, and the dopest rapper on any coast East or West. Now a washed-up shadow of his former self, the knigga retells his adventures to a former fan of his in a seedy club. Full of tragedy, romance, comedy, murder and glamour. Inspired by the Kingkiller Chronicles, 2pac, rap music in general and lots of weed. Also includes a fantasy Ku Klux Klan with actual grand dragons.

I'm not sure whether this is brilliant or terrible. Either way I want to see more.

Lottery of Babylon
Apr 25, 2012

STRAIGHT TROPIN'

A rival out there

Psycho Frea X posted:

You ever get the feeling? There is someone out there with similar experiences to you. Damaged and empowered much like yourself, in the ways of writing, developed a similar style, with similar ideas, but you want the story told your own way and you're actually competing with them.

I mean, the world's population is in billions, so who says you're the only one of your kind?

It's not enough to write anime. The mere act of writing must itself be anime.

Jerry Manderbilt
May 31, 2012



Edit: never mind, it's been long since deleted

Jerry Manderbilt fucked around with this message at Sep 14, 2013 around 17:52

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


Djeser posted:

I'm not sure whether this is brilliant or terrible. Either way I want to see more.

I'm gonna go with brilliant.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


Djeser posted:

I'm not sure whether this is brilliant or terrible. Either way I want to see more.

I'm gonna go with brilliant.

contrapants
Mar 9, 2013

Maybe aliens are colorblind?


Djeser posted:

I'm not sure whether this is brilliant or terrible. Either way I want to see more.

That is a cult classic movie waiting to happen.

dads_work_files
May 14, 2008

Cowabunga!


I think it gets less cool when you take into account that "Red Eyes Negro Dragon" is almost definitely a white kid who thinks pretending to be black and satirising hip-hop culture is hilarious and edgy.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


dads_work_files posted:

I think it gets less cool when you take into account that "Red Eyes Negro Dragon" is almost definitely a white kid who thinks pretending to be black and satirising hip-hop culture is hilarious and edgy.

It doesn't sound like he's actually satirizing it, though.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Djeser posted:

I'm not sure whether this is brilliant or terrible. Either way I want to see more.

It reads like DLC for Shut Up And Jam: Gaiden.



Lottery of Babylon posted:

My characters don't have any personalities because I made them just by sticking a couple of tropes together and calling it a day...

Something that I posted in one of the previous threads, and that it still relevant today:



You have to remember that tropers essentially engage in cargo cult literature, where they can recognise the components of a story, but not how they interlock and work. Which is why you see story descriptions that have the names of tropes liberally peppered through them as if a story is nothing but a collection of clichés put together into a cohesive mass of horribleness.

By way of analogy: A troper will spend years learning about what kind of ingredients typically go into cakes, and compile an exhaustive list of every ingredient and what they taste like on their own. Then the troper will present all of the other tropers with a bowl full of whole unshelled eggs, raw flour, oil, milk, and sugar, all in unstirred heaps, and say 'look at my cake'! And everyone will agree that the cake is delicious because it has eggs, flour, oil, milk, and sugar in it.

And there's an unopened packet of instant icing on top, and the icing is surprise sex.

DicktheCat
Feb 15, 2011



Shut Up And Jam:Gaiden 420/50

Just add Mickey, and we have our next Kingdom Hearts!

MinistryofLard
Mar 22, 2013


Are Con Langs Necessary for Fantasy

The Muse posted:

So I've been working on a series that's a high fantasy type thing, it takes place in a completely different world with different cultures and races and such. Obviously, they're not all going to speak the same language. But I've looked up resources online for language creation and I lack the time and skill to do it efficiently (seriously, how they hell is one to top Tolkien's Con Lang -s?) I've thought up a few solutions to this

Inform the reader of different languages by the narrative only
Most of the POV characters don't understand most of the various languages they come across. It could also be used as Painting The Medium, because honestly, when one hears someone speaking a language they don't understand in the slightest, you don't pick out any of the individual words, you only can pick up mostly "Ajfhgfgnasbbcbcaerraddfnbbbhaggd, "-type stuff.
Example: The young boy was speaking excitedly in Trollish. "He says that it will rain soon, " explained their translator.

Or I can:
Just make up a few words or phrases, but only for things that actually come up in the narrative

How do they both sound?

My fantasy world can't work unless I have sperged about literally every detail.

Like honestly, how do you write yourself into a corner before you've even written anything at all?

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

Try looking into that place where you dare not look! You'll find me there, staring out at you!


Con Langs was the lamest Mortal Kombat character.

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005



Volume posted:

Don't forget about Beyond The Lampshade where banned and bitter tropers go to keep on being horrible people and learn nothing.
Do we want Beyond The Lampshade stuff in the TvTropes thread? If not, I'll delete it.

From the thread "Anti-Male Sexism." Jack Butler starts with a 3-post opener. In the first post, he explains that the real problem is oligarchy, not patriarchy. I'll only do the first of three for the sake of not throwing a wall of text at the thread. He makes his long, drawn-out argument like a stubborn child who is certain that his 48-piece puzzle is actually 96 and he follows the 20 minutes he spent putting those together by spending days carefully tracing the edges and crafting the "missing" pieces, after which he stand back and presents his masterpiece to the world, oblivious to the fact that his "complete" puzzle looks nothing like a rectangle, nevermind the picture on the cover of the box.

Jack Butler posted:

As in the previous thread, I'm actually interested in having an intelligent discussion on this subject. If all you want to do here is tell me how much of an evil anti-female rear end in a top hat I am for even bringing up this subject, do us all a favor and tell me in a PM. Otherwise, you're trolling.

Now, back to the actual discussion. It took me a while to come up with all this. Hopefully some of you will have a better response than "Oh yeah? Well women..."

In the previous thread, a lot of you people brought up "the Patriarchy" as the reason anti-male sexism exists... and you usually brought this up on your way to bringing up how bad it is for women these days, sexism-wise. Feminists are always quick to turn any discussion of anti-male sexism into a discussion of anti-female sexism. I dunno why... its like they think women have a trademark on being targets of discrimination and don't want to be sued or something.

Anyway, here's my opinion on patriarchal oppression and the feminist tendency to blame everything bad on it: I think its pretty much bullshit.

Now, I am not saying that I don't believe that a patriarchal system has been around for the vast majority of our species existence. Of course it has. And I am also not saying that I don't believe women have truly suffered from oppression throughout the course of history, or that strict enforcement of so-called "traditional" gender roles isn't harmful to people on an individual level.

No, what I am saying is that the feminist interpretation of "patriarchy", as a stratified system of oppression directed at women, seems to me to ignore the reality of human history. Instead, its been combined with the idea of "oligarchy" to form some two-headed, double-penised monster known as the "Patriarchal Theory", and is presented as a simple self-evident truth that only an anti-female sexist would disagree with or deny, simply because the majority of the members of the oligarchy are, and always have been, male.

Now, oligarchies often are systems of oppression, where the majority of real power and influence are always held by a small, usually interconnected network of individuals or families or guilds, and whose power depends on the subservience of everyone else, both male and female. I'm not denying this. And while such systems don't always require the use of a police state, oligarchies are always designed in such a way that resources, and the power that possession of resources provides, are sucked upward from the greater mass of the population into the pockets of the elite.

It goes without saying that because the elite have the power, they can influence governmental policy, law, and social custom in just such a way as to maintain and increase their own power. And yes, the United States is an oligarchy, despite the fact that its also a democracy that enables individuals to cross social class lines between what could easily be labeled "modern day serfdom" to almost all the way to the top tier. But... and this is an important but... the richest 500 individuals in this country hold as much wealth as the bottom 150,000,000 combined.

And that, boys and girls, is what oligarchy is all about.

By their very nature, oligarchical power structures are self-perpetuating. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. And the richer/poorer cycle continues continues until some very rich rear end in a top hat is dumbshit enough to make some smart rear end remark in public about peasants and cake, at which point the pitchforks come out and someone starts cobbling guillotines together. The weird thing is that, in the US at least, the peasants are actually pretty well off when compared to peasants throughout the rest of history, so the pitchforks stage is pretty a long way off. But I digress.

Anyway, here's the point: oligarchy is the root of classism, and classism is the root of much of both racism and sexism. Patriarchy, however, is not an inherently oppressive idea. Its simply a way that the base-unit of society -- the family -- happened to be organized. And it's been the way that societies, large and small, have been organized pretty much since the dawn of time. Families were led by a male head of household, major decisions lay under the aegis of those family leaders, and lines of descent passed through males. That is, quite simply, all patriarchy is!

Up until very recently in the history of the human species, it was the most beneficial system for both men and women ever devised. Note that I said the most beneficial system. Not "perfect". Not "most just". But "most beneficial", and by that I mean that it brought the most benefit to men and women alike.

And contrary to what feminists would have you believe, in today's society, "patriarchy" is for the most part as dead as Julius Caesar.


Actually, I have to post his followup in response to

quote:

Your distaste of feminists seems to be based on generalizations.

quote:

My distaste for feminists is based on my distaste for sexism. Feminists are sexists, ergo, I hold great distaste for them. Its not a difficult equation to parse through. Feminists have a bad habit of looking around at what the world looks like now and applying it to their vision of history. The problem is that the nature of "work outside the home" was a very different thing throughout most of history. Feminists don't ask what it was like to have to hew coal out of a dark tunnel by hand for 12 hours a day, or to cut hay by hand in the heat of the sun, or to split an entire winter's worth of firewood by hand. The majority of men's work in the past has as much resemblance as work today as a laundry cauldron and washboard has to a digital front-loading washing machine. And because most of the truly dirty, dangerous, physical jobs out there today are still the domain of men (and believe me, feminists are perfectly happy in leaving that situation alone), feminists have no yardstick by which to compare what being a man was like in the past, or that women were privileged to not have to do that sort of work.

If one were a "glass half-empty" kind of person, one could say that historically men and women have oppressed each other -- the whole concept of marriage could if you were so inclined be considered a two-way avenue of oppression, where both parties benefited from the oppression of the other individual. Its a kind of cost/benefit arrangement where, human nature being what it is, could certainly end up with one individual getting more out of it than the other. Sometimes its the man, but just as often it would be the woman getting the most benefit. Even if I was to concede that, as a cost/benefit arrangement, it has been men who historically got the most benefit, in modern society it is the woman who garners the greater majority of benefit while men disproportionately pay the cost. Even though women are now free to work outside the home, the 93% workplace death gap demonstrates that even feminists are just fine with men continuing to embody disposibility and utility for the benefit of women and society.

So as I said, feminists have a willful blindness to the reality of human evolution, and they use this blindness when they apply the concept of "othering" to gender norms. "Othering" is the offspring of colonialism, and as far as I know, there has never been a society where women were just minding their own business when all of a sudden a bunch of men invaded and took over. This just isn't how it happened. Symbiotic gender roles evolved through hundreds of thousands if not millions of years of interaction between the importance of women as the aforementioned limiting factor in reproduction, the extremely dangerous world we inhabited for the majority of our evolutionary past, and the genetic path of least resistance. Given what our world was once like, "patriarchy" was simply the most functional and successful way humans happened to stumble across in order to deal with that world as the dangers it presented. It is no more evil or purposeful than the way an antihill or a wolf pack organizes itself. It wasn't a perfect system. Perhaps it was even the worst possible system. But as the saying goes, it was still better than all the other systems out there. And when you consider the nature of the labor, sacrifice and demands placed on men in the past, I would guess that most women saw male authority as a fair trade for what they got out of the deal.
And it goes on and on and on http://beyondthelampshade.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=131

Bilal
Feb 20, 2012



dads_work_files posted:

I think it gets less cool when you take into account that "Red Eyes Negro Dragon" is almost definitely a white kid who thinks pretending to be black and satirising hip-hop culture is hilarious and edgy.

People who "satirize" hip-hop culture make fun of black people grills, pink Cadillacs, clubbing, hoes, etc. None of them have ever seen the skill of Shaolin.

LaughMyselfTo
Nov 15, 2012


Yeah, I figured Beyond The Lampshade must be a good place when I first heard of it, because anything formed as a negative response to TVT must be good, right? But no, it's actually the people too crazy for TVTropes.

EDIT: Holy poo poo, Jack Butler's a moderator on BTL.

CONTENT: Way too much to quote; hope it's kosher to link to the thread:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.ph...39834200&page=1

This isn't quite the height of stupidity that happens in Writer's Block, but it's still certainly something; both for the OP and for the reactions. We can only imagine what the guy who was thumped was saying, but basically, TL;DR, I think we've found the Jabrosky of feminism. A guy spews his misogynistic fantasies into text, decides it'd be a great feminist story, and pushes it in Writer's Block. (As a video game, no idea how that's supposed to work.) He manages to get a knee-jerk anti-feminist response from someone who was thumped, a fairly reasonable "uh, this is kinda ridiculous" reaction from some other people, and, most damningly for TVTropes, the site's resident feminist comes in and defends him.

And yet it's still better than 90% of Writer's Block threads.

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Nov 26, 2011

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Don't forget about Beyond The Lampshade where banned and bitter tropers go to keep on being horrible people and learn nothing. They hate us, they hate TvTropes but they still love their lolicon.

I think they jumped to a new server and a lot of posts were lost but there was classics such as


and


LaughMyselfTo posted:

Yeah, I figured Beyond The Lampshade must be a good place when I first heard of it, because anything formed as a negative response to TVT must be good, right? But no, it's actually the people too crazy for TVTropes.

EDIT: Holy poo poo, Jack Butler's a moderator on BTL.

I know we're low on content right now, but just making stuff up isn't the way to go. The last time we tried targeting that site, we had goons calling people who suffered child abuse paedophiles and posting pictures of them to laugh at. I'm all for mocking nerds for being nerds, but stuff like that's what got the last thread closed.

And where'd you see that he's a moderator? According to their threads, he was kicked off the site after he made that horrible mysoginistic thread.

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