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Rick Rickshaw posted:I personally think you should have said this the day you decided to dollar-cost-average, but whatever helps you sleep at night I guess. Yeah I just bought after reading this. I don't think I care enough over the next decade for the few percentage points of benefit that I might get from meticulously scheduling buying.
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Aug 25, 2014 16:56
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Dollar cost averaging is useful for two reasons: 1) It lets you invest as you earn. People don't typically have the cash lying around for an entire year's worth of TFSA/RRSP contributions; paycheques are incremental, not annual. 2) There is a psychological benefit in easing into the market, and not 'risking' ones capital all at once. From a purely optimization perspective on a long-horizon however; it would be suboptimal to DCA a sum of money versus investing it ASAP if it were available.
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Aug 25, 2014 17:06
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Lexicon posted:
Is that true? I thought it was best to spread out a large sum to level out the fluctuations of the market. Though I guess the same thing happens over a long timeframe.
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Aug 25, 2014 17:30
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tuyop posted:Is that true? I thought it was best to spread out a large sum to level out the fluctuations of the market. Though I guess the same thing happens over a long timeframe. I believe this is true, and provably so, but I don't have a good source to hand. Basically, my understanding is that by DCA'ing capital, you're not only foregoing dividends over the period, but you're most likely buying in at a more expensive point in time than now, given the broad trend for stock indices to rise. Of course, if I had a large lump to invest, I'd probably spread it out just a bit to mitigate the psychological damage of buying at an Aug-2008-like point in time. I've been investing a long time, since before the GFC. I've often regretted holding cash and not making a purchasing decision sooner rather than later. I've never had the opposite regret. YMMV, of course.
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Aug 25, 2014 17:41
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When index funds are not the best choice. 
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Aug 26, 2014 15:08
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That whole thing is utter twaddle.
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Aug 26, 2014 15:14
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How do fluctuating interest rates affect REIT returns? It's an asset class I don't know a lot about and some of the info I've found is conflicting. Also most of the results google gives me seem like they're trying to sell me something 
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Aug 27, 2014 04:10
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Lexicon posted:I believe this is true, and provably so, but I don't have a good source to hand. Basically, my understanding is that by DCA'ing capital, you're not only foregoing dividends over the period, but you're most likely buying in at a more expensive point in time than now, given the broad trend for stock indices to rise. Of course, if I had a large lump to invest, I'd probably spread it out just a bit to mitigate the psychological damage of buying at an Aug-2008-like point in time. This, pretty much. If you have cash sitting in your account that you don't need for anything else it's not earning a return. Get it in. Daily and even monthly fluctuations are negligible over any reasonable investment horizon. Dollar cost averaging reduces the volatility of a portfolio, it doesn't necessarily benefit returns. Guest2553 posted:How do fluctuating interest rates affect REIT returns? It's an asset class I don't know a lot about and some of the info I've found is conflicting. REITs are a yield product. Rates go up, REIT prices go down, similar to a bond. The theory behind it is that all products of similar risk and maturity will trade at the same yield in the market, so prices on securities adjust inversely to interest rate movements to make this true. Example: REIT A is issued at an 8% yield, par value $10 per unit on Jan 1. On July 1, rates have increased by 1%, so the REIT now needs to offer a 9% return to be competitive with comparable investments. The REIT pays an 8% coupon, or $0.80 per year based on the $10 par value, so on July 1 it will trade at 0.80/0.09 = 8.88/unit. This is a simpler solution than a bond because a unit in a REIT is generally a perpetual security, unlike a bond which is fixed term and this impacted by return on the principal investment.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:38
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Dear Thread, I am a 31 year old moron who has not really started doing any retirement planning useful saving of any kind. No RRSPs or anything. I do have like $25k collecting dust in bank accounts. I considered buying a house, but prices seem a little inflated (I live in Ottawa, if that matters. Also I only make like $40k a year and the mortgage calculators have not been too flattering. I don't know anything about investing except what I've read from the OP and a bit on the Couch Potato site. It seems like there's a lot of wrong ways to go about it. I don't really have a specific goal in mind, except to get my money working for me instead of the bank. What would you recommend as a good first step?
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Aug 27, 2014 17:56
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revtoiletduck posted:Dear Thread, First step? Read The Four Pillars of Investing by Bernstein. Second step, if not perfectly comfortable with trading, open registered accounts (TFSA and RRSP, fill both according to your income, we discuss this often here) with TD and convert them to e-series. Follow a CCP allocation, avoid sexy, get rich. Second step if comfortable is to go with Questrade (or another broker?) and open a TFSA and RRSP, contribute according to your income, buy ETFs according to your desired asset allocation, avoid fees and sexy, get rich.
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Aug 27, 2014 18:30
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revtoiletduck posted:Dear Thread, The Neatest Little Guide to Stock Market Investing I thought this was pretty good for someone who is completely new as it walks you through everything up to doing your first investment with a brokerage. I skipped all the bond-related paragraphs though as bond rates suck anyways. I read 4 pillars next and stopped half way for no reason really. Found it in the stock picking thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3259986
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Aug 27, 2014 21:36
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Thanks! I will definitely check out those books.tuyop posted:Second step, if not perfectly comfortable with trading, open registered accounts (TFSA and RRSP, fill both according to your income, we discuss this often here) with TD and convert them to e-series. Follow a CCP allocation, avoid sexy, get rich. $15k of my savings is already in a TFSA with PC Financial, and I have maxed out my contribution for the year. Can I just open a TFSA with TD and transfer everything over or are there some rules that I need to be aware of? Or would it best to max out RRSP contribution and just sort of leave whatever's leftover in the TFSA? I have been lurking in this thread for a while, but without being able to relate it to my own money I find that a lot of what is said just kind of goes over my head.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:53
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revtoiletduck posted:Thanks! I will definitely check out those books. If you're 31 you should have the full $31k limit for TFSA, assuming you were a resident the whole time. I'd say max that first, given your salary. The annual contributions carry over; I only just maxed out mine last month after starting the year with like 500 bucks in it  e. Also thanks for the words about REITs Guest2553 fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Aug 28, 2014 |
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Aug 28, 2014 00:24
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Kalenn Istarion posted:REITs are a yield product. Rates go up, REIT prices go down, similar to a bond. The theory behind it is that all products of similar risk and maturity will trade at the same yield in the market, so prices on securities adjust inversely to interest rate movements to make this true. Why is it that the REIT in your example would need to offer 9%? What would be happening with comparable investments exactly?
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Aug 28, 2014 00:58
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revtoiletduck posted:Thanks! I will definitely check out those books. Yeah transfer that poo poo to a broker soon. I think there's something to worry about if you don't do the transfer properly, but the broker can tell you about that. The RRSP and TFSA allocation depends on your salary and whether you think it'll go up. If it's going to go up by lots, then you should wait until you're near the top of your earnings to use up your RRSP contribution room. Though eventually you'll run out of TFSA space and have to contribute to your RRSP anyway. If your goal is like super early retirement then RRSP is the way to go, since you don't plan on earning/withdrawing much after you ditch working for a living.
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Aug 28, 2014 02:10
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Lexicon posted:Why is it that the REIT in your example would need to offer 9%? What would be happening with comparable investments exactly? When people talk about rates moving they are really blending two concepts - the underlying risk free return, and the spread over risk free rates implied by both general (market or industry) and specific (company/security) risk. So when someone says 'rates have gone up by 1%' they are generalizing (intentionally or not) the concept that either a) the economy as a whole has become more risky, represented by an increase in the 'risk free rate' or the risks of a certain class of entities had changed, represented by the spread over the risk free rate. In the case of the REIT example, which change is driving the rate increase isn't particularly relevant, but let's say hypothetically that the economy has gone into the dumpster and vacancy rates have increased (I don't care if this is a stupid example, just run with it). Ignoring for a minute that the poor economy would likely drive a reduction in nominal risk free rates, the specific risk of increased vacancies would increase the rate of return investors would require to hold REIT paper vis a vis other potential investments. Now with a frame of reference for the general economic situation, let's look at two reits, REIT a and REIT b. REIT a is the aforementioned and issued paper in January at an 8% yield because this is the rate of return investors required at that time to buy a REIT unit versus say a corporate bond. In July, REIT b, which has a very similar risk profile, is going to issue paper, but because of the lovely economy needs to offer a higher rate of return to get investors to buy their paper. While REIT a likely won't directly choose to increase their yield, investors in that asset class will note they could hold units of a yielding 8% or units of b yielding 9% and will sell a to buy b until the returns are equalized given similar risk. Selling a will drive its price down (all else equal), and the trade will no longer make sense when a is trading at or below 8.88 per unit because a will now have the same yield. Short answer, simple supply and demand - people sell the expensive (lower yielding) thing to buy the cheap (higher yielding) thing. This all assumes frictionless transactions in a well informed market etc etc so doesn't always work perfectly in practice but that's the general gist of it. I'm simplifying and glossing over some stuff too but it isn't particularly relevant to this dicussion.
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Aug 28, 2014 07:26
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revtoiletduck posted:Thanks! I will definitely check out those books. PC Financial may charge you a transfer-out fee on your TFSA. If you go with TD, make sure you ask them to reimburse you on their end after the transfer. You just have to provide a screenshot of the fee taking place from your statement or Online Banking. Questrade will reimburse you as well, but you need $25,000 per account before they will.
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Aug 28, 2014 11:11
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Kalenn Istarion posted:When people talk about rates moving they are really blending two concepts - the underlying risk free return, and the spread over risk free rates implied by both general (market or industry) and specific (company/security) risk. So when someone says 'rates have gone up by 1%' they are generalizing (intentionally or not) the concept that either a) the economy as a whole has become more risky, represented by an increase in the 'risk free rate' or the risks of a certain class of entities had changed, represented by the spread over the risk free rate. In the case of the REIT example, which change is driving the rate increase isn't particularly relevant, but let's say hypothetically that the economy has gone into the dumpster and vacancy rates have increased (I don't care if this is a stupid example, just run with it). Ignoring for a minute that the poor economy would likely drive a reduction in nominal risk free rates, the specific risk of increased vacancies would increase the rate of return investors would require to hold REIT paper vis a vis other potential investments. That makes a great deal of sense — thanks.
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Aug 28, 2014 18:10
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A couple I know wanted to start saving for a down payment on a house, so they went to TD and asked for advice. They were set up with an RSP account, holding shares of the "TD Comfort Balanced Income Portfolio" mutual fund. Aside from the fact the MER is 1.5%, what really seems odd to me is that it requires regular contributions. The rep apparently said if it came down to paying your cell phone bill, or the contribution, you pay the contribution. As far as I'm aware, the only time you're forced to put money into an RSP, is if you borrowed money out with the home buying plan, or the education plan. I mentioned that the MER is somewhat high, and about e-series funds, so they are likely going to go have another look. I'm not really sure what I'd suggest as far as distribution though for a 3-5 year time frame. With their income level somewhat on the low side, I'd think perhaps a TFSA might be the better route along with the flexibility. but then the RSP lets you accumulate money with out income tax.
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Sep 1, 2014 03:09
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I went to set up mutual funds with TD a handful of weeks ago. They pushed regular contributions hard, but I was to get away without it. They did require a minimum $100 initial contribution though. Your friends can probably just cancel the autopay with a phone call to TD Investment Services if the branch rep was a little pushy.
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Sep 1, 2014 04:20
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reflex posted:I went to set up mutual funds with TD a handful of weeks ago. They pushed regular contributions hard, but I was to get away without it. They did require a minimum $100 initial contribution though. Your friends can probably just cancel the autopay with a phone call to TD Investment Services if the branch rep was a little pushy. Yeah off the top of my head I can't remember any fee structure that would require ongoing contributions. However, mutual fund sales reps often get a much higher payout for signing people up for recurring contributions so he's incented to sell them on it.
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Sep 1, 2014 04:40
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Golluk posted:A couple I know wanted to start saving for a down payment on a house, so they went to TD and asked for advice. They were set up with an RSP account, holding shares of the "TD Comfort Balanced Income Portfolio" mutual fund. Aside from the fact the MER is 1.5%, what really seems odd to me is that it requires regular contributions. The rep apparently said if it came down to paying your cell phone bill, or the contribution, you pay the contribution. If they want it in 3-5 years, my understanding is that they don't want to invest it. Put it in a locked in GIC or something, or one of those lovely 2% TFSA savings accounts to limit the hit inflation takes, they're perfect for that.
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Sep 1, 2014 06:13
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Golluk posted:A couple I know wanted to start saving for a down payment on a house, so they went to TD and asked for advice. They were set up with an RSP account, holding shares of the "TD Comfort Balanced Income Portfolio" mutual fund. Aside from the fact the MER is 1.5%, what really seems odd to me is that it requires regular contributions. The rep apparently said if it came down to paying your cell phone bill, or the contribution, you pay the contribution. If they stop the PACs before it accumulates $500, the contributed funds will probably be moved into a Cash Savings Deposit instead of the mutual fund.
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Sep 1, 2014 17:40
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Cross posting from the newbie thread per a poster's suggestion... I recently opened an account with Questrade and have maxed out my contributions to the TFSA and RRSP accounts I have with them. However, because I was an idiot about investing and never did it until now, I had about $18,000 sitting in my checking account with RBC, taking up space and gathering dust. I transferred about $15,000 of that cash into Questrade, opening an individual margin account with it and buying Canadian Couch Potato approved ETFs. What I want to know is: 1) Was opening the margin account to invest some of that checking account money a good call? If not, what can I do with my checking account money, preferably investment-wise? 2) Can I open more than one TFSA and RRSP account? If not with Questrade, then maybe with TD? Or is that illegal / will cost too much tax / etc.?
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Sep 1, 2014 23:29
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Olive Branch posted:Cross posting from the newbie thread per a poster's suggestion... 1) It's always better to have your money doing something, instead of nothing. Otherwise, inflation chips away at your savings. But, one thing to keep in mind is the tax consequences of investing in a non-registered account. How familiar are you with the tax treatment of capital gains vs. interest income vs. dividend income? Also, do you have a spouse? Because if you do (and if you're focused on minimizing taxes), consider looking into a Spousal RSP, which lets you contribute to his/her RSP, while giving you the tax deduction. 2) You can open up as many TFSA/RSPs as you like, but that doesn't mean you can contribute over and above the maximum allowable amounts without consequence. Remember- your TFSA/RSP contributions are tracked by your Social Insurance Number. Not your RSP/TSFA account number. Opening up several TFSAs/RSPs while thinking you can bypass the government's contribution limits will gently caress you. (Sorry if my post came off as condescending in any way. I'm just not sure what you're investment knowledge/experience is). melon cat fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Sep 1, 2014 |
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Sep 1, 2014 23:53
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melon cat posted:1) It's always better to have your money doing something, instead of nothing. Otherwise, inflation chips away at your savings. But, one thing to keep in mind is the tax consequences of investing in a non-registered account. How familiar are you with the tax treatment of capital gains vs. interest income vs. dividend income? Also, do you have a spouse? Because if you do (and if you're focused on minimizing taxes), consider looking into a Spousal RSP, which lets you contribute to his/her RSP, while giving you the tax deduction. To answer your questions:1) I am entirely unfamiliar with the tax treatment of those three mentioned forms of income. My expertise regarding investment is "read Mr. Money Moustache, realized the power of investments, invested in recommended mutual index funds and ETFs with low MERs". I have absolutely no idea how to report any income made in my individual margin, RRSP, and TFSA accounts. I am also single, and if it's of any importance, am a Brazilian-American living as a permanent resident in Quebec. I did read about getting dinged twice because I'm an American citizen investing in Canada on Canadian Couch Potato, but I didn't grasp the why and what to do about that. 2) Ah, so the contribution limit is permanently tied to your SIN, I get you. Well, since I've maxed contributions for the year I guess there's nothing to be done with them but wait until 2015. Opening and contributing more is a no-no. So now that I've got money in a margin account (which I'm not borrowing on to avoid any mishaps with Questrade), what should I look out for regarding taxation?
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Sep 2, 2014 00:17
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Olive Branch posted:Don't worry about the tone of the post, it was educational and not at all condescending.  Tax Free Savings Account". But Uncle Sam wants his share, and unfortunately U.S. non-residents aren't immune from his long-rear end reach. I wish I had better news for you, but there is nothing you can do about that.As for reporting your income... For your TFSA- you don't have to report any investment income you made from money held in this account. Period. Remember- the money you tossed into your TFSA was after-tax income. You didn't get a tax deduction for your TFSA contribution, and you never will. But as far as reporting this to the IRS because of the U.S. tax rules concerning TFSA-owning non-residents- I don't know the process. Sorry. For your RSP- any investment income you make is tax deferred, so you won't be taxed on it until you retire. So don't worry about reporting any investment income made your RSP, for now. You only need to care about that when you retire and start pulling money out of your RSP. Come tax time in the Spring, you'll start getting all sorts of pretty slips in the mail telling you how much money you contributed to your RSPs. You'll need those for your tax return so you can get your tax deduction. Tax deduction means lower income tax bracket. Lower income tax bracket (hopefully) means better tax return. For your margin account- since it's a non-registered (ie. not tax sheltered, not tax-deferred. Fair game as far as the CRA goes) you can bet that you'll pay all sorts of taxes on your gains. Heck, if your investments do really well in one particular year, it can put you in a very high tax bracket. But as far as reporting them, I can't give you any advice on that because I'm not as familiar with it. It's best to consult an accountant or tax professional if you'd like some detailed information on minimizing your taxes. I'll give the most simple break-down as far as taxes go when you're investing here in Canada. Bear in mind that I'm not a tax professional or accountant of any sort. But here are the basics. When you invest and you (hopefully) make money, you'll get your investment income in three possible ways:
So, you're invested in ETFs, right? Every ETF differs on what kind of investment income it earns you. Some focus on dividends. Some try to avoid capital gains for tax reasons. This is where your research comes into play. melon cat fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 01:11
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Right on, thanks for the info, melon cat. Regarding the ETFs focusing on different sources of income, would Questrade's ETF database be enough to check out the income type, is there some other investment database that can give me that information, or am I stuck Googling each ETF?
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Sep 2, 2014 01:24
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https://www.canadiancouchpotato.com is a good resource for ETF investing and some tax implications. Canadian specific information is out there in bits and pieces but not really consolidated, unfortunately. Which actually has me thinking...I have a year of goonhosting I haven't really done anything with and I'm sorely tempted to make a Canadian Finances 101 website. What think you guys?
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Sep 2, 2014 01:32
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There's lots out there, but something more focused might be welcomed. I read http://canadiancouchpotato.com/ http://www.fool.ca/ (they generally just schill specific stocks but it's a way to get introduced to Canadian stocks as long as you take what they say with a grain of salt and do your own research) http://www.moneysense.ca/ (article view limits but if you read it in incognito they go away) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/ (again incognito is your friend) http://business.financialpost.com/category/investing/ (google incognito 4eva) and morningstar.ca has great stock and ETF search tools
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Sep 2, 2014 01:41
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melon cat posted:Fair game as far as the CRA goes) you can bet that you'll pay all sorts of taxes on your gains. Heck, if your investments do really well in one particular year, it can put you in a very high tax bracket. Just as a point of clarity: you only go into a high tax bracket in a particular year with successful (i.e. substantial capital gains) investments if and only if you lock in those gains by selling the securities.
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Sep 2, 2014 02:05
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Lexicon posted:Just as a point of clarity: you only go into a high tax bracket in a particular year with successful (i.e. substantial capital gains) investments if and only if you lock in those gains by selling the securities. Guest2553 posted:https://www.canadiancouchpotato.com is a good resource for ETF investing and some tax implications. Canadian specific information is out there in bits and pieces but not really consolidated, unfortunately. melon cat fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Feb 4, 2024 |
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Sep 2, 2014 03:16
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Guest2553 posted:https://www.canadiancouchpotato.com is a good resource for ETF investing and some tax implications. Canadian specific information is out there in bits and pieces but not really consolidated, unfortunately. What content would you have that would be different from CCP plus any reasonable US finance site? The principles of sound asset allocation are pretty universal, because they avoid speculation, and the rest is just briefing on types of products and tax strategy and how to avoid being made a bitch by banks and brokers. Unless you're thinking that there's a niche in making CRA's stuff actually readable. That would be cool. I'd kill for a website full of reference flow charts for navigating tax poo poo made by someone qualified.
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Sep 2, 2014 04:55
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I was thinking more an updated hub for information with links to relevant poo poo from the Canadian side, with a potential for commentary. The idea still exists that one shouldn't delve into ETFs until they have a 5 figure portfolio, for instance, even though many platforms don't charge commissions for buying them. You're right that the basics don't change and I'm not a fan of reinventing the wheel (even if I'm still in the military ). People a lot smarter than I am have written things a lot better than I could about investing, frugality, retiring, saving, Not sure I can help you with the tax thing though, sorry!
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Sep 2, 2014 05:13
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Here's another question. As I said earlier, I'm an American living in Canada, working in Canada, paying into a Canadian pension, etc. Even though I'm not working in the US, can I start an IRA Roth or something to that effect and contribute to that?
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Sep 2, 2014 19:56
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Olive Branch posted:Here's another question. As I said earlier, I'm an American living in Canada, working in Canada, paying into a Canadian pension, etc. Even though I'm not working in the US, can I start an IRA Roth or something to that effect and contribute to that? I'm not an accountant, but that sounds like a spectacularly bad idea as it won't be advantaged from a Canadian point of view. If you're domiciled here, you'll want to use a TFSA, but since that's not sheltered from a state-side perspective it may still cost you American taxes all the same. You're in complicated territory. The single best investment you can make right now is several hours with a cross-border accountant to learn the rules applicable to your own situation. It'll pay off for decades to come.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:43
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Lexicon posted:I'm not an accountant, but that sounds like a spectacularly bad idea as it won't be advantaged from a Canadian point of view. If you're domiciled here, you'll want to use a TFSA, but since that's not sheltered from a state-side perspective it may still cost you American taxes all the same. You're in complicated territory.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:50
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Olive Branch posted:Thanks! I have little knowledge of investments, and a lot of questions to ask. Google isn't always helpful, so I appreciate the fast answers BFC can provide! Google PFICs to start with. Most banks, insurance companies and large accounting firms have some brief write ups that will help you get grounded. I will also second the comment about cross the boarder accountant. Getting a grounding in the topic isn't the same as speaking with someone who actually understands it. The compliance requirements for most mutual funds and I believe most ETFs is incredibly onerous for US persons. Imagine having to fill this form out every year http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8621.pdf for your ETFs. Unless you know how to fill that out yourself or have huge amounts of capital you're probably going to be very limited in what you can invest in without professional fees exceeding your return. I would expect that form to run somewhere from 500-1000 CAD for the simplest of scenarios.
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Sep 3, 2014 05:43
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This is a little disheartening. CPP costs triple due to investment fees: Fraser Institute https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/balance-sheet/canadian-investors-are-often-warned-about-154004366.html quote:The report says the total cost of running the CPP increased to $2 billion in 2012-13, up from $600 million in 2006-07.
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Sep 3, 2014 20:24
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slidebite posted:This is a little disheartening. I thought pretty much all pension funds were in passive index funds anyway just because their accounts are so huge that anything else inflates the cost of whatever they buy. Did CPP get sucked into a 
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