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It's just the way Kevan views her, he has this sort of weird optimism about him, he even had rather positive views toward Tyrion before the regicide trial.FogHelmut posted:Then you double down with the idea that Cersei and Jamie are secret Targs, whereby Aerys the Mad King was their father (it's a stretch - it's not a whole lot more than he saying he wanted to bang Joanna Lannister at her wedding to Tywin, Jamie and Cersei's ultra-blond hair, and their affinity for incest), and Robert may not have been that much of a usurper afterall. Actually Targaryens have platinum blond hair and all the Lannisters except for Tyrion have golden blond hair, not to mention lack of purple eyes. The only person in the books who is said to have practiced Primo Noce rights is Roose Bolton and you can be drat sure that if Aerys banged Joanna during the bedding ceremony it would have been a very poorly kept secret. Jaime and Cersei are not secret Targaryens, only overt douchebags. It is kind of an ironic theme that Robert usurped the throne with military force and got usurped himself by adultery. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 14:10
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FogHelmut posted:Then you double down with the idea that Cersei and Jamie are secret Targs, whereby Aerys the Mad King was their father (it's a stretch - it's not a whole lot more than he saying he wanted to bang Joanna Lannister at her wedding to Tywin, Jamie and Cersei's ultra-blond hair, and their affinity for incest), and Robert may not have been that much of a usurper afterall. I'm surprised we haven't had "Craster is a secret targ" since apparently only they enjoy incest.
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Sep 18, 2013 14:12
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FogHelmut posted:This is what I was trying to say. It has been put forward in the past, and this isn't something I made up, that Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen are Jamie and Cersei's children. If by "put forward in the past" you mean "mentioned in literally every Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion chapter in the entire series" edit: decently supported by text secret targs are Jon Snow, Jaime and Cersei, yes?
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Sep 18, 2013 14:12
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^^^ just Jon.computer parts posted:I'm surprised we haven't had "Craster is a secret targ" since apparently only they enjoy incest. If everyone's a secret Targ, Mr. Targaryen, then no one is. Blade_of_tyshalle fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 14:13
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:If you ever feel sorry for Cersei for any reason, it's probably thanks to the show. Really? I always assumed she murdered her black haired baby in the show. That made me rather less sympathetic than I was to her simple abortion tea from the books.
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Sep 18, 2013 14:20
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The show doesn't imply that she murdered the child, only that it died during its early infancy. In the books I don't think that the books ever mentioned a true born child, in fact Cersei and Jaime bang each other on Cersei's wedding night so she wouldn't be able to anticipate a black haired stag baby.
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Sep 18, 2013 14:24
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hobbesmaster posted:If by "put forward in the past" you mean "mentioned in literally every Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion chapter in the entire series" Yeah I'm retarded. There was a whole thing about Jamie being pained that he couldn't speak to Joffrey as his son, wasn't there?
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Sep 18, 2013 14:38
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Nah he didn't care that much, he too thought that Joffrey was a dickhead. He was actually reflecting on Catelyn's grief when Robb died compared to the fact that he only wanted to have sex with Cersei next to the corpse of their child, he then reflects "The boy lived and died believing Robert was his father".
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Sep 18, 2013 14:44
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FogHelmut posted:Yeah I'm retarded. There was a whole thing about Jamie being pained that he couldn't speak to Joffrey as his son, wasn't there? It was more of a "I wonder how different things would have been if..."
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Sep 18, 2013 15:00
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Are multiple people in this thread actually suggesting that Jaime and Cersei are secret Targaryens because incest is an inherited trait?  Okay, new theory: The Prince That Was Promised is Emperor Commodus, from the movie Gladiator. He must be a secret continuity-transcendent Targaryen, because there's no other explanation for him being so creepy.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:07
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loquacius posted:Are multiple people in this thread actually suggesting that Jaime and Cersei are secret Targaryens because incest is an inherited trait? ...no that theory comes from Genna Lannister
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Sep 18, 2013 15:13
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hobbesmaster posted:...no that theory comes from Genna Lannister Are you referring to that whole "Tyrion is Tywin's true son" thing? Cause she wasn't implying that Cersei and Jaime weren't Tywin's children but that Tyrion has his father's cunning, competence and ruthlessness, she even states "Tyrion is Tywin writ small", it has nothing to do with Jaime and Cersei's parentage.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:20
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Thats where the theory comes from though.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:22
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emanresu tnuocca posted:It's just the way Kevan views her, he has this sort of weird optimism about him, he even had rather positive views toward Tyrion before the regicide trial. It's hinted that some of the other northern houses might keep the first night too. Read the huis clus.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:34
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hobbesmaster posted:Thats where the theory comes from though. She was pretty clearly saying that Tyrion is the most like Tywin. She talks about how Jaime is like his uncles, but that doesn't mean his uncles gangbanged his mother.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:47
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If any child isn't Tywin's it is Tyrion. I know it's not a popular idea but it does fit: Aerys was totally interested in Joanna Lannister. Tywin and Joanna left kings landing very abruptly. The timing could fit impregnation by rape. Tywin sent the Mountain and co to rapemurder the kings family, even knowing Jamie was a hostage. After Genna Lannister tells Tywin that Tyrion is his true son, Tywin does not talk to her for a year. Tywin REFUSES to let Tyrion inherit the Rock. Then there is Tywins last words. Tematicaly speaking, who better to have been given horns than Tywin Lannister? There's a parallel between Jamie and Tyrion, killing each others fathers for good reasons and being publicly reviled for it. And most importantly, if Tywin is not Tyrions father then he is going to escape the kinslayers curse. Comparing Theons fate to Tyrions suggests that the gods haven't cursed Tyrion quite yet.
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Sep 18, 2013 16:35
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Tyrion being a secret Targ is every bit as much of a stretch as the same theory for Jaime and Cersei was, but I like it anyway because it makes my favorite character a contender for the throne 
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Sep 18, 2013 16:41
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Blind Melon posted:If any child isn't Tywin's it is Tyrion. I know it's not a popular idea but it does fit: quote:After Genna Lannister tells Tywin that Tyrion is his true son, Tywin does not talk to her for a year. quote:Tywin sent the Mountain and co to rapemurder the kings family, even knowing Jamie was a hostage. quote:Comparing Theons fate to Tyrions suggests that the gods haven't cursed Tyrion quite yet. That makes no sense because Theon never killed his biological kin, if he was cursed for killing his foster family than it stands to reason that Tyrion will be cursed for the same reasons.
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Sep 18, 2013 16:42
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Yes, Theon killed his biological son. The son of the millers wife. The wife he used to gently caress on occasion. Without condoms. The only point of contention you have is Joanna not being in Kings Landing and I don't recall anything that suggests she wasn't. Tywin did leave later than I recalled? But that doesn't matter Tywin is a patient man. If you think that the golden twins are more likely to be half targ than the dude with a purple eye and some platinum hair then you are an idiot. It's either Tyrion or none of them. wiki posted:Joanna was a friend of the then ruling Princess of Dorne, whom she knew from her time at court when they were companions to Princess Rhaella Targaryen.[4] Her friend had two children, Oberyn and Elia, who were not yet promised in marriage, so they planned to have their children wed each other. Before this could happen, Joanna died giving birth to her third child Tyrion and the marriages did not take place. Joanna was totally in KL available for some raping. Maybe. I don't remember seeing a good timeframe on my last read. Tywin Lannister posted:“Men’s laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine.” Vvvvv EVERYTHING is conjecture, or plainly spelled out. Blind Melon fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 16:50
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Blind Melon posted:Yes, Theon killed his biological son. The son of the millers wife. The wife he used to gently caress on occasion. Without condoms. quote:The only point of contention you have is Joanna not being in Kings Landing and I don't recall anything that suggests she wasn't. Tywin did leave later than I recalled? But that doesn't matter Tywin is a patient man. quote:If you think that the golden twins are more likely to be half targ than the dude with a purple eye and some platinum hair then you are an idiot. It's either Tyrion or none of them. It's absolutely none of them. Blind Melon posted:Joanna was totally in KL available for some raping. Maybe. I don't remember seeing a good timeframe on my last read. Did you read that paragraph? Joanna was at court long before Tyrion was born, before she was married to Tywin in fact. Her proposal to wed Jaime & Cersei to Oberyn and Elia was through the exchange of ravens when she resided in the Rock. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 17:01
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Eh, it's possible but it's mere conjecture, Theon wasn't the only one fornicating with her. She may have even been sleeping with her husband!
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Sep 18, 2013 17:10
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Describe her husband.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:12
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Blind Melon posted:Yes, Theon killed his biological son. The son of the millers wife. The wife he used to gently caress on occasion. Without condoms. Tyrion doesn't have a purple eye. He has mismatched eyes of green & black. Supporters of this theory always say "Well, it could be a purple eye that is so dark, it just looks black" to rationalize this. He does have lighter blond hair than the twins, but it's never described as silvery blond like any of the Targaryens.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:13
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Blind Melon posted:If any child isn't Tywin's it is Tyrion. I know it's not a popular idea but it does fit: I like this theory; I love the thought of everyone (including Tyrion) assuming Tywin treats him like poo poo because he is a dwarf, when in fact it is because Tywin knows or strongly suspects that Tyrion is, in fact, not his son. Family pride and love for his dead wife keeps him from spilling the beans on this, and in his own way he struggles with the same issues Ned Stark struggled with in raising Jon Snow as his own. I don't think this is the case, and Tyrion is actually Tywin's son, but it would be an awesome twist.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:13
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Blind Melon posted:Yes, Theon killed his biological son. The son of the millers wife. The wife he used to gently caress on occasion. Without condoms. Theon is only 12 years older than Bran, and the miller's wife's son is old enough to be mistaken for Bran, so he's probably the same age and Theon would have had to be having sex with the miller's wife at age 11.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:14
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Piell posted:Theon is only 12 years older than Bran, and the miller's wife's son is old enough to be mistaken for Bran, so he's probably the same age and Theon would have had to be having sex with the miller's wife at age 11. She has two sons, one of them is Rickon's age. I do not prescribe to the theory but it is possible for Theon at 19 to have fathered a 3 years old boy.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:15
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Westeros is a bad area to be a miller's wife. Didn't bolton rape the other miller's wife and produce Ramsey?
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Sep 18, 2013 17:18
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The Millers wife had two sons, one of which was young enough to be mistaken for Rikkon (seriously folks? How do you forget child number two?). Theon wonders if Wex, his 12 year old squire had fathered any bastards, so it's a safe bet that 12 year old Theon was getting his bone on. If you think that's unlikely I remind you who wrote the series.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:19
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:If you ever feel sorry for Cersei for any reason, it's probably thanks to the show. AFFC/ADWD have done a better job of that, actually.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:20
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Baldbeard posted:Westeros is a bad area to be a miller's wife. Why do you think there is such a huge food shortage?
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Sep 18, 2013 17:24
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p.crestmont posted:I like this theory; I love the thought of everyone (including Tyrion) assuming Tywin treats him like poo poo because he is a dwarf, when in fact it is because Tywin knows or strongly suspects that Tyrion is, in fact, not his son. Family pride and love for his dead wife keeps him from spilling the beans on this, and in his own way he struggles with the same issues Ned Stark struggled with in raising Jon Snow as his own. It would also be quite a twist if the children Tywin does care about are not his and the one he truly despised and thinks is not his actually is.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:27
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Blind Melon posted:Describe her husband. Hair so blond it's almost white, eyes the purple of the sky near sunset. By the Seven, the miller's wife's husband is a secret Targ!
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Sep 18, 2013 17:40
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The miller is described as old and the wife as easy. The miller is probably the least likely father of the millers wife's sons.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:45
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Blind Melon posted:Why do you think there is such a huge food shortage? Hahaha "Yeah, HP, I'd like to grind you some flour and I'll get right on it after all these landed nobles STOP loving MY WIFE!!!"
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Sep 18, 2013 17:45
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p.crestmont posted:I like this theory; I love the thought of everyone (including Tyrion) assuming Tywin treats him like poo poo because he is a dwarf, when in fact it is because Tywin knows or strongly suspects that Tyrion is, in fact, not his son. Family pride and love for his dead wife keeps him from spilling the beans on this, and in his own way he struggles with the same issues Ned Stark struggled with in raising Jon Snow as his own. Not from the actual truth, but because there is absolutely nobody who could say anything about the truth. The Rumor that John Snow is a secret Tygerrian has the same Problem, even more so. The only people in Weseteross who could say "Hey this guy is a Tygerian", have already met John and shown no sign of recognition.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:50
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The Stark (lady)seed is strong!
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Sep 18, 2013 17:54
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tonberrytoby posted:The Rumor that John Snow is a secret Tygerrian has the same Problem, even more so. Howland loving Reed begs to differ.  (creative spelling of "Targaryen" there btw)
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Sep 18, 2013 17:56
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I agree abut Tyrion. He will be friendly with dragons like Brown Ben but there will never be a reveal of any sort. As to Jon Snow though, Howland Reed knows.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:56
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Blind Melon posted:The miller is described as old and the wife as easy. The miller is probably the least likely father of the millers wife's sons. So...your theory that Theon is being punished by the gods for being a kinslayer are based on... Theon remembering that he'd slept with the miller's wife before. The miller is old. The wife is "easy" I'm not saying it's not possible that the youngest kid is Theon's, but you seem to just be grasping at every single theory that's ever been presented as if it is fact. I tend to only buy into theories that have a bit more evidence or foreshadowing to them than that. Also, I'm not really sure what sort of importance you think it would have for Theon to have killed his supposed bastard other than to rationalize the torture that he's been subjected to. It literally adds nothing to the story. The bastard never would have inherited anything, never would have been important, and Theon has already been broken mentally. Any "realization" that he'd killed his own bastard child would do nothing more than to torture him more with guilt and is completely unnecessary for character development or arc.
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Sep 18, 2013 18:01
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chellesandcheese posted:So...your theory that Theon is being punished by the gods for being a kinslayer are based on.. And stuff like this: “I have done terrible things ... betrayed my own, turned my cloak, ordered the death of men who trusted me ... but I am no kinslayer.” “Stark’s boys were never brothers to you, aye. We know.” That was true, but it was not what Theon had meant. They were not my blood, but even so, I never harmed them. The two we killed were just some miller’s sons. Theon did not want to think about their mother. He had known the miller’s wife for years, had even bedded her. Big heavy breasts with wide dark nipples, a sweet mouth, a merry laugh. Joys that I will never taste again. It's about as ambiguous as Theon not having a penis.
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Sep 18, 2013 18:16
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