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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Fat Walda's cute "Someone more dark, why are they using a Latin American actor if he doesn't even look properly Latin".
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Sep 13, 2013 14:23
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Fatkraken posted:Does GRRM plot in advance? Like does he have a list of a couple hundred chapters with a 3 line summary of each one taking us all the way to the end of the series, or is he literally making it up as he goes along with no plan or idea of what will happen next? GRRM has said he has the beginnings and endings planned but figuring out how people get from point A to point B is sort of vague.
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Sep 13, 2013 17:30
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NihilCredo posted:Brienne realising the lady to whom she had sworn an oath has become a monster, and deciding to become an oathbreaker by killing her to save the lives of innocents, would be a very neat parallel to Jaime doing the same thing with Aerys. Actually, it seems pretty in-character. the "joke" or subversion at the end will be that Brienne will be applauded for it because she killed the monster that was killing everyone in the Riverlands (that wasn't Gregor).
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Sep 16, 2013 01:13
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FogHelmut posted:Then you double down with the idea that Cersei and Jamie are secret Targs, whereby Aerys the Mad King was their father (it's a stretch - it's not a whole lot more than he saying he wanted to bang Joanna Lannister at her wedding to Tywin, Jamie and Cersei's ultra-blond hair, and their affinity for incest), and Robert may not have been that much of a usurper afterall. I'm surprised we haven't had "Craster is a secret targ" since apparently only they enjoy incest.
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Sep 18, 2013 14:12
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Baldbeard posted:Doesn't the TV series have several dream sequences with bran and the 3-eyed crow? Yes, but they're usually straightforward "Here's Bran at Winterfell chasing a crow with 3 eyes", not stuff like Tower of Joy or even Bran's dreams in the book with the talking crow.
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Sep 18, 2013 22:24
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Can you elaborate? Haven't come across this one yet. Basically Longclaw is a pretty elaborate sword for a poor minor house in The North so some people think it's the Targaryen sword Dark Sister. Backing up this theory is that the last known wielder of Dark Sister was Bloodraven, a Lord Commander of The Night's Watch who (may have) took the sword with him.
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Sep 18, 2013 23:17
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Which is kind of fortunate for Ned, Lyanna and Baby Jon. Some families have the Targaryen/Valyrian look and the supposed mother for Ned's Bastard (Ashara Dayne) was one of those.
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Sep 19, 2013 04:05
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FogHelmut posted:Yes. This would make a pretty great avatar.
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Sep 19, 2013 16:31
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Merlinicus posted:Is there actually a consensus that Cersei is redeemable? I wouldn't be surprised if it not only never happens, but she eventually becomes the primary antagonist to the final central plot arc. I think Cersei is (to be blunt) too stupid to be redeemed. Tyrion is Tyrion, he's been up and down and every direction. Jaime was a monster at first, but from his POV chapters you learn that even from the beginning (of the books anyway) he's had self doubt about a lot of what he does. Cersei is just cruel. True, she didn't want to kill Bran, but that's been about the most "intelligently sympathetic*" thing you could say about her. Everything else she does is stupid, petty, or both, and multiple characters call her out on it. It's true that she still has the potential to redeem herself, but GRRM's characters tend to be fairly static in terms of basic motivation. Cersei is written as a person who's selfish and only thinking about her immediate relations (that don't screw her over), and that's probably how she's going to end her character. *As in, she uses her brain to do something good rather than "I am a mother raww protect my loquacius posted:Counterpoint -- that's Bran's job. Well except The Others, they're pretty much "evil force of nature" made living.
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Sep 21, 2013 14:48
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:She single-handedly obliterates the economy for an entire region. That's a pretty big gently caress-up. Would Gregor obliterating the economy of the Riverlands count as a fuckup?
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Sep 25, 2013 16:43
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lifts cats over head posted:He intended to do that, so no. I consider Dany's actions to be a gently caress up because she never bothered to consider what happens after the slavery ends. There's no evidence that Tywin considered what would happen to the riverlands after Gregor destroyed it other than "product the region is known for is no longer able to be produced". This is the same line of thought that Dany had.
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Sep 25, 2013 16:59
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Beeez posted:Pretty good article, though it seems like the next one will be trying to prove Danaerys isn't a naive, incompetent, lovesick girl. I suppose the incompetent part is up for debate, but she's certainly been naive and lovesick for most of the story. And I don't think Meereen changed that. The whole point of her last chapter was that Meereen was a terrible terrible idea and she's getting back to what she does best - conquering.
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Sep 28, 2013 04:35
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The Sharmat posted:Stallion Who Mounts the World That's Drogon. 
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Oct 1, 2013 21:45
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The Sharmat posted:There's also precedent for a distant heir taking the name of the more ancient house when they inherit. See: Harry the Heir. Honestly, given how long some of these houses have reigned, I wouldn't be surprised if this has happened several times throughout the centuries. Maybe the Starks and Lannisters and Martells and such aren't even the original Starks and Lannisters and Martells. They mentioned this with the Hornwood estate before they found out Ramsay married her and locked her in her tower. (A bastard of the old Lord Hornwood would be legitimized and take up the old name)
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Oct 2, 2013 17:08
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webmeister posted:This is interesting/odd, they're pulling down the Eyrie set and implying that they're finished with it Sansa's chapters aren't in ADWD. She would be leaving roughly halfway through the combined AFFC/ADWD book, which isn't that far off since all they really need to do in the Eyrie is kill Lysa.
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Oct 11, 2013 23:49
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TOOT BOOT posted:Honestly I found the CKII mod pretty dull. Westeros isnt that interesting without GRRM pulling the strings for us. Yeah, I think it will be more interesting when they get Essos in because right now you can be a de jure ruler of the entire world.
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Oct 15, 2013 00:10
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tin can made man posted:How did people guess Aegon's reappearance from SoS/AFFC? I don't recall any hints or foreshadowing of that off the top of my head. There wasn't any. When GRRM was asked if Rhaegar's kids were dead he switched sometime between AFFC and ADWD from "oh yeah both of them are totally dead" to "oh yeah his daughter is totally dead".
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Oct 16, 2013 00:56
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In It For The Tank posted:
Gilly's baby getting killed shows this isn't necessarily true unless Mel glamored it and I didn't pay attention.
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Oct 16, 2013 17:16
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rypakal posted:I'm convinced some people don't even read the wikipedia summaries of these books. No, I just remember Gilly bitching about her kid for half of a book more than one Jon chapter about his "master plan  ".
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Oct 16, 2013 21:03
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Zythrst posted:Man it must be really hard to stay unspoiled now. I was just listening to college football talk on my local sports radio station while I was driving and suddenly they are talking about Jaime losing his hand. Once it airs, it doesn't count as spoiled anymore. Or rather, it counts as spoiled the same way Empire Strikes Back has been spoiled by cultural osmosis.
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Oct 19, 2013 14:59
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joepinetree posted:"reclaim reputation of unpredictability?" A fairly common criticism that people make of ASOIAF is that it cares more about subverting expectations than doing stuff that is organic to the story. Which is a pretty funny complaint in itself since basically every major twist organically evolved from the story (except I guess Varys freeing Tyrion to crossbow his dad and the whole Aegon thing).
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Oct 21, 2013 20:07
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CumFart Gurantee posted:I really don't think it's that literal. I think it's symbolism along the lines of Houses Stark and Baratheon are going to destroy each other. Also, I think at that point in the novels, Melissandre's powers were more limited. Yes, she (or Stannis, w/e) did use magic to kill Renly and Cortnay Penrose, but I'm pretty sure she merely saw the deaths of Robb, Joffrey, and Balon Greyjoy dying in her fires and then used that foreknowledge to manipulate Stannis with a bullshit leech ritual. Or we can go all Anathem/Stephenson and propose that Melisandre used her magic to make that particular reality come to life.
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Oct 24, 2013 02:56
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jeffersonlives posted:There was a recent article on GRRM that indicated it would be released in 2014, and really if you start thinking about how fast he needs to get things out to not get overtaken, it kind of has to be. if his football teams do terribly that'll probably encourage him to write more this winter. Thankfully, the Giants at least are doing their part just fine.
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Oct 25, 2013 05:30
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pigdog posted:I wonder if they keep the character of Wyman Manderly, or was his son at the Red Wedding a mere red herring, a fanservice. It would make sense for the show to cut down on the number of characters and merge Manderly into Greatjon, who in the show wasn't at the RW. Osha and Rickon are going to the Umber keep so he'll probably be there, Manderly can still bring up that his son died there as motivation even if you don't really know him that well.
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Oct 28, 2013 20:08
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Dolash posted:That's really only become obvious over the course of five books in a seven book long series. Anyone who's survived this long and has had any serious limelight will appear, in retrospect, to be the most important by virtue of not being dead. Characters from the first book are essentially a precious currency that Martin must spend carefully, since they've got the most built-up audience interest and/or sympathy. "Anyone can die" is marketing, plain and simple. Ned Stark is Boromir (irony of Sean Bean playing both included); He's the noble hero who dies early in the series so people can see that the merry band of adventurers have some consequences for their actions but they still save the day because that's what good storytelling does (at least the way GRRM has put it out thus far).
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Oct 30, 2013 01:34
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jeffersonlives posted:Well that's being awful optimistic. Yeah, I think AFFC is the shortest one and that's still 600 pages. Edit: Nope, A Game of Thrones is still the shortest and it's just over 700 pages.
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Oct 31, 2013 01:55
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Anonymous John posted:The Barristan chapter in the ADWD paperback lasts only for 8-9 pages. Not much going on but still worth spending 5 minutes reading at your local bookstore. Can you confirm if it's one of the chapters detailed here?
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Oct 31, 2013 09:28
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PootieTang posted:Have the show-writers cared at all about loving up major characters story-lines at any point so far? Name the specific example you have in mind and no, Varys finding his torturer doesn't count.
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Nov 1, 2013 17:31
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PootieTang posted:Arya. Her entire plotline is almost unrecognizable form the books. I think they didn't want to have her killing so many people or having quite such a brutal story. Also they can't do her stabbing the poo poo out of the guy while shouting about gems in the village and poo poo. Instead of weasel soup and all that other cool stuff we got Tywin and Arya fanfic. Her plot line is basically the same. She doesn't kill as many dudes but the general beat of "goes with Yoren -> gets imprisoned and goes to Harrenhall -> escapes Harrenhall and gets a magic coin -> gets captured by the Brotherhood and then Clegane" is virtually the same.
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Nov 1, 2013 18:43
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PootieTang posted:Honestly I feel like you're kidding yourself with that. The details are the important part, they're what sets apart GRRM's writing from other shlocky fantasy stories. Saying 'it's vaguely kinda the same if you ignore all the actual events in the story and just turn it into a four bullet point summary' is just a cop-out. The most drastic change from her story is a mercenary band which got moved to the third season because quite frankly they do more there and there's no reason to introduce them. Having some coup is just contrived and it strains believability that one of the head bannermen for Ned Stark wouldn't be able to recognize his daughter after she drew incredible amounts of attention to herself.
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Nov 1, 2013 18:59
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PootieTang posted:The most drastic change is her character development. She almost seems neutered in the TV version, by this point book Arya was already a total badass. The TV version almost seems neutered in comparison. And again you're just sort of handwaving away all the little details as 'not important', the details are critical throughout all of ASOIAF, there was a ton of great stuff in the book that got scrapped so that Arya and Tywin could have screen-time together since they are two of the show-audiences favorite characters, It's basically fan-service. The whole thing with Arya and Tywin ultimately goes absolutely no-where were-as the book events are much more pervasive in their importance, and not just on a character level. The fact that you're calling Arya's actions as "being a badass" is telling. Arya's story is about trauma and how people deal with it. She was the eyes of the common people before we had Brienne to do that. Her whole arc is about how she did bad things and had bad things happen to her and she has to deal with it. Her further development as a killer does not need to be done here, it can be done later on in a much more focused setting on Braavos. Oh, and the Tywin scenes? Those are just as much for Tywin as for Arya. Tywin is at this point in the story more important than Roose Bolton, and Roose will have plenty of time to be characterized later on.
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Nov 1, 2013 19:35
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PootieTang posted:Telling of what may I ask? Because you can be a badass and still be a traumatized human being. And let's be honest, Arya is a badass regardless of whatever else she is, there's no need to throw a poo poo fit about it as if real people died and I'm somehow insulting their memory. And honestly I don't think you can just shove off her development of a killer off to Braavos, since when she decides to travel across the sea to another continent (which in this historical setting is a much bigger deal than it sounds) to learn to be a master killer is strongly impacted by the fact that she is already on that path. She was already a killer, and at that point her goal was to become a more effective one. Having her go from a much more innocent place to 'I'm going to dedicate my entire life to becoming an assassin' makes a lot less sense to me than the steady development building up to it. Arya leaves Westeros because she has nothing left there, not because she wants to become a master killer. quote:And I strongly disagree about Tywin and Roose and their importance. Roose Bolton has a HUGE scene coming up at that point at the red wedding and Tywin's character is already pretty firmly established. We don't really learn anything new about Tywin from his scenes with Arya, whereas a lot of important establishment of Roose's character could have been done in the time he took up. Roose Bolton had a huge scene in the book as well and he had no buildup for it in the third book. Remember, all of your bitching is happening during Season 2, not Season 3.
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Nov 1, 2013 19:59
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I believe it was said that they have mines and fishing but they normally let the thralls do the former when they have them because it's terrible work.
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Nov 5, 2013 17:13
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loquacius posted:Also they seem to hate hate hate the idea of trading themselves. Remember that Balon's reaction to Theon having a necklace or whatever is "You'd better tell me you murdered someone for that, nancy-boy. From what I can tell it sounds like Balon is just one of those dudes who tried to resurrect the Old Ways but got beaten down for it. Actually, aside from the Greyjoy family did we get much indication that the modern Ironborn have this in their culture? It sounds more like Balon is nostalgic about the past and trying to get everyone to go his way (and coincidentally this happens when a major rebellion is occurring).
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Nov 5, 2013 18:02
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Xenoborg posted:I think you guys are conflating the Greyjoy's culture with that of the Ironborn as a whole. The Greyjoys are certainly all for the raiding and pillage routine, but the lesser houses and especially the smallfolk don't have as much aversion to fishing/farming/mining. The Greyjoys are constantly talking about "going back to the old way" of raiding, pillaging, and taking thralls, which implies that the failed rebellions have diminished that practice. Yeah, what I mean is that it's like those dudes who are nostalgic about the 1950s despite the fact that their memories are bad and actually their childhood was nothing like what they remember.
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Nov 6, 2013 00:10
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In It For The Tank posted:GRRM is going to take an axe to the number of POV characters in TWOW, mark my words. We have twenty of them by the end of ADWD (including Jon). By the end of TWOW, I definitely think we will losing five of them. Probably more. At the very least you're going to see a lot of POVs come together so that even though there's 20 of them you have 4-5 in one place so it moves the story along anyway no matter who is narrating the chapter.
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Nov 12, 2013 06:06
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pigdog posted:It would be cool if Dany turned into a straight up villain... but Bran, who perhaps is being manipulated by Bloodraven to become the Great Other, would turn the tables and save Westeros with his zombie army. Remember that the only mention of "The Great Other" is from an insane fire priest who doesn't even know why the fires show her Jon Snow when she asks for Azor Ahai.
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Nov 13, 2013 14:57
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TOOT BOOT posted:If Bran and Dany's storylines are being moved that far forward we could be seeing new material as soon as 2015. Not necessarily; a lot of that stuff is only important in a "this is what happens during the time when Dany fucks around in Slaver's Bay"; it's sort of like the "War for Cercei's oval office" scene back in season 1 where it probably makes more sense for it to happen earlier on for some padding and/or pathos.
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Nov 14, 2013 23:41
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Trivia posted:The Red Wedding sent me! I'll see you all in 46+ pages. You're probably going to want to at least finish Book 3.
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Nov 20, 2013 00:52
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I've done the weirdest re-read, I started with AFFC, then ADWD and finished with ASOS I'm more forgiving of AFFC & ADWD because it's clear the books are all setup for the next book(s). I mean, a whole lot of nothing happened in ACOK or stuff that was immediately retconned or made useless in the next book (Davos being MIA, Renly dying, etc).
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Nov 20, 2013 01:19
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