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 Hey stupids, if you haven't read all the books you should leave this topic now. Spoilers begin below the title card!  Get hype! The fourth season of Game of Thrones will begin airing on April 6th 2014. Rules 1. Don't post spoilers in the show thread. 2. Don't confirm spoilers or call out people who posts spoilers in the show thread. Report them! 3. Don't use spoiler tags in this thread. They are redundant. Break the rules and you take a tumble out the Moon Door. --- Episodes Episode 1: Two Swords Written by: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Directed by: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Synopsis: Tyrion welcomes a guest to King's Landing. At Castle Black, Jon Snow finds himself unwelcome. Dany is pointed to Meereen, the mother of all slave cities. Arya runs into an old friend. Episode 2: The Lion and the Rose Written by: George R. R. Martin Directed by: Alex Graves Synopsis: Tyrion lends Jaime a hand. Joffrey and Margaery host a breakfast. At Dragonstone, Stannis loses patience with Davos. Ramsay finds a purpose for his pet. North of the Wall, Bran sees where they must go. Episode 3: Breaker of Chains Written by: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Directed by: Alex Graves Synopsis: Tyrion ponders his options. Tywin extends an olive branch. Sam (John Bradley) realizes Castle Black isn't safe, and Jon proposes a bold plan. The Hound teaches Arya the way things are. Dany chooses her champion. Episode 4: Oathkeeper Written by: Bryan Cogman Directed by: Michelle MacLaren Synopsis: Dany balances justice and mercy. Jaime tasks Brienne with his honor. Jon secures volunteers while Bran, Jojen, Meera, and Hodor stumble on shelter. Episode 5: First of His Name Written by: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Directed by: Michelle MacLaren Synopsis: Cersei and Tywin plan the Crown's next move; Dany discusses future plans; Jon Snow begins a new mission. Episode 6: The Laws of Gods and Men Written by: Bryan Cogman Directed by: Alik Sakharov Synopsis: Stannis and Davos set sail; Dany meets with supplicants; Tyrion faces down his father. Episode 7: Mockingbird Written by: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Directed by: Alik Sakharov Synopsis: Tyrion gains an unlikely ally; Daario asks Dany to allow him to do what he does best; Jon's warnings about the vulnerability of the Wall are ignored; Brienne follows a new lead. Episode 8: The Mountain and the Viper Written by: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Directed by: Alex Graves Synopsis: Unexpected visitors arrive in Mole’s Town; Littlefinger’s motives are questioned; Ramsay tries to prove himself to his father; Tyrion’s fate is decided. Episode 9: The Watchers on the Wall Written by: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Directed by: Neil Marshall Synopsis: Jon Snow and the Night’s Watch face a big challenge. Episode 10: The Children Written by: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Directed by: Alex Graves Synopsis: Circumstances change after an unexpected arrival from north of the Wall; Dany must face harsh realities; Bran learns more about his destiny; Tyrion sees the truth about his situation. --- So what's happening in Season 4? The show has strayed further and further from the books, so adaption chat is starting to get tricky. Conservatively, we can say that Season 4 will adapt the last half of ASOS and certain parts of AFFC and ADWD. Bran, for example, has only three chapters' worth of material left and they're all in ADWD, Brienne and Pod's actors have been spotted filming together in rural Iceland, and so on. Certain characters have deviated massively from the books ( With that in mind, here is what we can look forward to seeing (not in order): - Jaime x Cersei stump play - The Purple Wedding - Arya and Sandor reenact Homeward Bound - Coldhands, hopefully? - Jaime starts to realize his family is kind of lovely - Roose, Ramsay, and Reek's father-son-slave bonding - Barristan finally loving fights somebody, surely? - Yara's doomed mission to save Theon - Stannis and Davos treat with the Iron Bank - Brienne and Pod go looking for Sansa - - Jorah's betrayal and subsequent exile - Ygritte's death - Tyrion's trial and Shae's betrayal - The Meereenese Knot starts to tangle - Oberyn vs. The Mountain - Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS! - Arya goes to Braavos, Sandor "dies" - Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, poo poo gold - Lord Snow - Only Cat - Lady Stoneheart --- Confirmed Cast Additions The North  Octavia Alexandru as The Child of the Forest I knew her passing resemblance to Maisie Williams and strong accent meant something.  Elizabeth Webster as Fat Walda The newly wed Lady Bolton. Her forks are sharp.  Lu Corfield as Mole's Town Madame No doubt the show runners are trying to fill the holes left by Ros.  Brenock O'Conner as Potato Boy Update as of Episode 4: Satin replacement I guess. He's going to kill Ygritte.  Yuri Kolokolnikov as Styr The Magnar of Thenn. I'm just as surprised as you are.  Jane McGrath as Sissy We don't know any details about her role except that she's a wildling.  Joseph Gatt as Thenn Raider Apparently he's just some Thenn Raider.  Struan Rodger as Three Eyed Raven Looks like they'll be keeping references to his true identity to a minimum. The Vale  Paola Dionisotti as Anya Waynwood Harry the Heir's guardian.  Rupert Vansittart as Bronze Yohn Royce They better not skimp on the magic armour. The Riverlands  Gary Oliver as Braavosi Captain Valar dohaeris.  Gabriella Dempsey as Innkeeper's Daughter I don't think we'll have to worry about the audience hating Gregor.  Grahame Fox as Ralf Kenning TFW no Victarion. The Crownlands  Indria Varma as Ellaria Sand Oberyn's paramour. Likes Cersei.  Hafthor Julius Bjornsson as Gregor Clegane Now there's The Mountain we can all look up to.  Daniel Rabin as Lord Blackmont That's a weird looking face.  Roger Ashton-Griffiths as Mace Tyrell The Lord of Highgarden. Fun fact: the actor is only 56 years old.  Sigur Ros as Even Joffrey is sick of them  Dean-Charles Chapman as Tommen Baratheon We better see some goddamn kittens.  Pedro Pascal as Oberyn Martell The Red Viper. Too white for Tumblr. Essos  Michiel Huisman as Daario Naharis This certainly won't confuse anyone at all.  Darren Kent as Goatherd Drogon eats his kid.  Joel Fry as Hizdahr zo Loraq Harzoo.  Mark Gatiss as Tycho Nestoris A delegate of Iron Bank of Braavos. Also not Syrio. Returning Guest Stars The following secondary characters have been confirmed to appear: - Lysa Arryn (Kate Dickie) - Dontos Hollard (Tony Way) - Myranda (Charlotte Hope) - Locke (Noah Taylor) - Alliser Thorne (Owen Teale) - Janos Slynt (Dominic Carter) - Rorge (Andy Beckwith) - Karl (Burn Gorman) --- Thread History Season 1: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - Hiatus - Spoiler - Ned Head Redemption - Early Episode 7 Thread Season 2: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - Hiatus - Spoiler - Shadow Baby Season 3: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - Hiatus - Spoiler - Dracarys - The Red Wedding Season 4: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - Hiatus - Spoiler - The Purple Wedding - The Night's King - IN LIKE THIS In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2013 09:03
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Latest Hype Season 4: Trailer Sneak Peeks Five Vine videos showcasing scenes from the upcoming trailer. Season 4: Trailer Teaser You can't just drop a trailer, you gotta prep the audience first. Season 4: Trailer #1 It's happening. Thread discussion starts here. Season 4: Behind the Scenes - On the Set Our first behind the scenes look at Season 4. Season 4: Ice and Fire: A Foreshadowing - Behind the Scenes Show Promo A short preview of an upcoming fifteen minute special about Season 4. Season 4: Behind the Scenes - Production Designer Deborah Riley I bet you don't hear a word Deborah Riley says because you're so focused on the footage. Season 4: Ice and Fire: A Foreshadowing Fifteen minute special showcasing Season 4. Thread discussion starts here. Season 4: Trailer #2 - Vengeance Thread discussion starts here. Season 4: Behind the Scenes - The Intensity of Iceland They had a video with the exact same name last season. No one cares about Iceland. Season 4: Stark Direwolf Tease Direwolves are scary. Season 4: Dany Dragon Tease Dragons are scary. Season 4: Tyrion Dungeon Tease Dungeons are scary. Season 4: Catch the Throne Dungeons dragons Season 4: Trailer #3 - Secrets Thread discussion starts here. Season 4: Behind the Scenes - Shooting in Belfast I'm just glad they're not going on about Iceland anymore. Game of Thrones: Bastards of Westeros An in-depth look at bastards in Westeros, featuring scenes from Season 4. Season 4: Trailer #4 - Devil Inside Now available on Youtube and not just on Facebook. Season 4: Awaken A short preview of Season 4. Season 4: All Men Must Die Another short preview of Season 4. Season 4: Behind the Scenes - Shooting in Croatia Also known as "Ekskluzivno: Ekipa Igre prijestolja o snimanju u Hrvatskoj!" Season 4: Behind the Scenes - Director's Feature The directors of Season 4 discuss their work. Season 4: Behind the Scenes - Making of the Royal Wedding GRRM would be proud of this feast. Season 4: Behind the Scenes - Weapons and Training Behind the scenes look at the choreography for fights. Season 4: Behind the Scenes - Costumes Oh, bop, do do do do do do do do/Fa-fa-fa-fa-fashion Season 4: Behind the Scenes - New Characters and Locations An in-depth look at the new players and places. --- Recommended Reading This spoiler thread also serves as a de facto book discussion thread since it's the only place on the forums where you can talk about the series with other book readers without using spoilers tags, that also isn't the Bad Thread. To facilitate discussion, here is a list of articles that I suggest reading. This list is by no means all-inclusive, and many popular theories are missing because there aren't any comprehensive write ups available yet. As for what is listed, you may disagree with some of the authors' assertions and conclusions, but still take away a greater appreciation of the world of ASOIAF. Resources TWOW Sample Chapters: A compilation of the sample chapters of The Winds of Winter that have been released to the public. Credit to Ballz for compiling them all into one document. The ASOIAF Timeline: It is no secret that GRRM is terrible at accurate measurements and judging distances. Nevertheless, this timeline is an attempt to organize the events of the series into chronological order using evidence from the books. Dates aren't necessarily precise, and by the authors' own admission there are many assumptions, but it remains the most precise ASOIAF timeline in existence. Essays Winterfell Huis Clos: A 300,000 word analysis of the events surrounding Winterfell in ADWD. The author's conclusions are controversial but their meticulous examination of the recurring themes and symbolism in ASOIAF during the first section should be considered required reading for any ASOIAF fan. Race for the Iron Throne: In the author's own words, a historical and political analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire. Written by a PhD in history, Race for the Iron Throne discusses the series on a chapter by chapter basis, examining the story, characters, political systems, and historical influences of the books. Untangling the Meereenese Knot: A five-part critical response to the prevailing notion that Dany's storyline in ADWD was useless and boring. The author recontextualizes the conflict in Meereen and posits that it is far more interesting (and relevant) than it first appears. Other Wars: A six-part analysis of Jon Snow's character and ADWD storyline. Jon's tenure as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch is marked by a series of challenges to his core values. On multiple occasions, Jon is forced to choose between adhering to his vows as a brother of the Night's Watch and acting upon his valiant desire to do the right thing. The author of examines how Jon's noble heart ultimately causes his downfall. The Pyre Revisited: A short essay that finally sets the record straight about Dany's alleged immunity to fire. The author of this article reexamines the climax of AGOT and identifies the true reason for the miracle that occurred on the Pyre. One Does Not Simply Warg Into Hodor: Often overlooked by readers, Bran is guilty of one of the most evil acts in the entire series: the willful mental subjugation of another human being. The author of this short essay summarizes the depravity of Bran's actions and hints at some of the disturbing potential consequences of his behavior. Theories R + L = J: Jon Snow is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. By far the most popular theory in the fandom, it is so well supported that it can be pretty much considered a fact. The article I linked only encompasses the first three books in the series but remains one of the most comprehensive guides to the theory. After ASOS, references and evidence for R+L=J become much more subtle and rare, as if GRRM realized how quickly the theory could spread thanks to the development of a devoted internet fanbase. Dead Man making GBS threads: Tywin Lannister was poisoned by Oberyn Martell before his death. A theory first suggested more than a decade after ASOS was released, this theory ties a number of strange coincidences and subtle clues together into a compelling theory. --- Season 3 Wrap Up Line Counts According to some crazy person on wic.net, here is a list of the characters with the most lines in Season 3, ranked in descending order. quote:Characters with the most lines in Season 3: Now obviously, you might have a few questions about the legitimacy of the count. Like, how do we know this guy is telling the truth and how do we know we know what counts as a "line"? For the former question, the guy kept a running tally for most of the season (here's a random sampling: 5, 8, 9) and if you follow the link to 5 he lists his "credentials", so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Anyway, I'm posting it here for posterity. If you ever needed proof of Catelyn's marginalization, there you go. I'm kind of mad about how high up Shae is on the list, since I now bear irrefutable proof that she's awful. Adaption Chart  (You're gonna probably wanna look at this in a new tab) Although this probably isn't the ideal format to use (and I apologize for that), here are the charted results of the Adaption survey I posted in the previous thread. I gotta say, you guys were a lot more generous with your ratings than I was expecting, and it appears that we fundamentally disagree on the quality of some actors and writing and the accuracy of some characters. Oh well, wisdom of the crowd right? Just so we're clear, the dead centre of both axes would be the equivalent of a character who received a 5 in both categories. I was genuinely expecting more "Bad/Faithful" and "Good/Unfaithful" characters. Because you guys were so generous, a lot of characters tended to fall within the same range so that's why it's so claustrophobic. I spaced them out as much as I dared while keeping the results "accurate" and relative to one another. Some characters are actually hidden behind others, so I will list them here: Xaro Xhoan Daxos is hidden behind the Shae, Qhorin, Mance pile of shame. Rickon is partially obscured behind Bran. Ygritte and Renly are underneath Lysa, Blackfish and Barristan. Sandor and Varys are located beneath Roose, Olenna and Theon. You probably want to know who the highest and lowest in each category was, right? Well here you go: Tywin is the best, Walder is the most accurate, Quaithe is the worst (which surprised me) by a few pixels, and Talisa is the least accurate (though, for fairness sake I consider Mance to be the least accurate as Talisa is deliberately different from Jeyne Westerling). --- zoux posted:
--- Blade_of_tyshalle posted:It would be like a telenovela. We open with Dany in Daario's arms in a bungalow with a slowly rotating ceiling fan. They giggle, and the thick humidity leaves their skin glistening wetly. The door swings open, revealing Khal Drogo in an open-front short-sleeved shirt. --- In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Sep 13, 2013 09:03
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Baldbeard posted:E: Maybe it was his, "The things I do for love" 1-liner as he pushed Bran out the window that really sold me on the idea that he doesn't really give a gently caress. The "The things I do for love" line is much more bitter in the books. I don't think it's supposed to be read as flippant at all, it's too sardonic to a one-liner. The reason Jaime shoves Bran (after catching him and pulling him back up) is because he thinks that is what Cersei wants him to do. She would later say that she would have threatened Bran into staying silent, but at the time she seems rather desperate ("He saw us," she said shrilly/"what are you doing?" she demanded [after Jaime pulls Bran back up]). This isn't a justification, and I don't think pushing Bran gave Jaime any sleepless nights or anything, but I don't think he took any joy in it.
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Sep 15, 2013 22:56
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CapnAndy posted:What does Melisandre say about viewing the future? It's like shadows, right? One future can cast many shadows, just some are more likely than others. That's how Stannis describes it to a skeptical Davos to explain how Melisandre saw both Renly's death and Renly smashing Stannis beneath the walls of King's Landing. Or course, both prophecies came true because Renly was killed by the shadow baby and Garlan Tyrell dressed as Renly to fight at Blackwater.
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Sep 18, 2013 03:13
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The primary antagonist is the human heart. So deep.
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Sep 21, 2013 17:20
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I was holding out for a Lenny Kravitz kinda guy.
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Sep 27, 2013 22:50
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Friendly Factory posted:Hizdahr is the one that marries and attempts to poison Dany Allegedly attempts to poison Dany. (Shavepate did it.)
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Sep 28, 2013 03:06
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Dolash posted:Shavepate always struck me as the one good councilor actually making a real effort to make the new Mereen work - the Brazen Beasts, for example. Shavepate was pretty much the opposite; he was belligerent to the point of lunacy and never shut up killing the nobles. He wanted to break the peace. The Brazen Beasts were his little personal army, essentially his SS, that he used to torture and kill the Sons of the Harpy. He was the big loser in the marriage pact between Dany and Hizdahr, and he's the one who points Barristan at Hizdahr and says "go get him." An article (coincidentally, published today) discuses the theory: http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/
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Sep 28, 2013 03:24
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Azure_Horizon posted:This was done away with by the ending of ADWD where she gets her period again. Not neccessarily, MMD said that Dany would never feel her womb quicken ever again (ie. the baby will never move). Dany can get her period and might even get pregnant, but she can't carry a baby to term.
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Oct 1, 2013 18:15
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run DNC posted:No. She said she would all that crap about mountains crumbling to dust and the sea drying up and blah blah that all could be construed has having happened. No, that line was about Drogo going back to the way he was before the blood ritual. Dany's womb quickening is one of the impossible criteria that has to happen before Drogo can return. Of course, Drogo is ashes right now so good luck with that. And Drogon's return in ADWD also cannot count as a symbolic fulfillment because Dany's womb hasn't quickened yet, so even if you follow the "Quentyn's death, burning pyramids" theory, you are still one criteria short. The sun setting in east, mountain collapsing, etc. was just MMD twisting the knife. She was basically saying "Your husband's a vegetable and your womb is poison, and there's nothing you can do to change that." I really don't think it was an actual prophecy. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 18:57
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the jizz taxi posted:I guess. Does adoption exist in Westeros? I guess Jon Snow.
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Oct 2, 2013 14:58
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hobbesmaster posted:Not really adopted. He was raised by someone who wasn't his father and called his son. He was given all the rights and privileges being a bastard of a lord that he was supposed to have, and then some. How is that not really adopted?
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Oct 2, 2013 15:53
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Well yeah.
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Oct 2, 2013 15:57
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Show Cersei is even dumber than Book Cersei, that entire "Yo Marge, I'm gonna go Rains of Castamere all over your rear end" thing was completely on the nose and unnecessary. This is a recurring element in the show, regardless of the character.
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Oct 4, 2013 06:08
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I love Jack Gleeson so god drat much and I think it's tragic that he's retiring from acting.
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Oct 10, 2013 04:23
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TOOT BOOT posted:Out of curiosity how many of the fan theories about ADWD ended up being true? Off the top of my head, all of the following were predicted or suggested before ADWD came out: Qyburn is building a Frankenstein monster. "Aegon's" reappearance. Brienne survived. Davos wasn't really executed by Manderly. Melisandre is a fire zombie like Beric and Catelyn. Fake Arya is Jeyne Poole, trained by Littlefinger. Bloodraven is the Three Eyed Crow. (Amazingly, people somehow predicted) Rickon and Osha are on Skagos.
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Oct 15, 2013 23:05
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Mortabis posted:Wait what? Compare: quote:Lord Beric himself did not eat. Arya had never seen him eat, though from time to time he took a cup of wine. He did not seem to sleep, either. His good eye would often close, as if from weariness, but when you spoke to him it would flick open again at once. quote:Melisandre had spent the night in her chair by the fire, as she often did. With Stannis gone, her bed saw little use. She had no time for sleep, with the weight of the world upon her shoulders. And she feared to dream. quote:Some nights she drowsed, but never for more than an hour. One day, Melisandre prayed, she would not sleep at all. One day she would be free of dreams. quote:“Does my lady wish to break her fast?” asked Devan. So like Beric, Melisandre doesn't need to eat and she barely needs sleep. She is sustained by the power of R'hllor. It's implied that she's much older than she looks and that she wears a glamour (powered by the ruby on her throat) that would hide her age and any distinguishing wounds like Beric and Catelyn have. Also, it's pretty much confirmed in the Season 2 DVD Commentaries. Listen to the Episode 10 commentary between Alan Taylor and Emilia Clarke. The following dialogue takes place when Melisandre rises after being strangled by Stannis: Alan: "Sorry, I've got to interrupt. The way she stands up here she's sort of doing this kind of... she's coming back to life. It was something she did on her own. It's this very strange kind of, like, we find out later that she's not... entirely... um..." Emilia: "Of course!" Alan: "You know what I probably shouldn't say any more." *laughs* Emilia: "Yeah, no, no, no, no, yeah." Alan: "But standing up strange like that, it makes sense given who she is." Emilia: "Yes, definitely, definitely." Alan: "A cool choice." Emilia: *sings the Twilight Zone title theme* e: Here's the scene where you can see Melisandre rising and seemingly "coming back to life". In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Oct 15, 2013 |
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Oct 15, 2013 23:21
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CapnAndy posted:There's a gap about a mile wide between "don't need to eat or sleep because you're a zombie" and "don't need to eat or sleep because you're a sorceress". I disagree. We've met several warlocks and sorcerers and what not throughout the series, yet I can't think of any other who displays the ability to sustain themselves just through magic. Even Moqorro, who is arguably more powerful than Melisandre, needs to rest all day after tending to his night fires.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:00
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tin can made man posted:How did people guess Aegon's reappearance from SoS/AFFC? I don't recall any hints or foreshadowing of that off the top of my head. GRRM always played coy when people asked him about the deaths of Rhaegar's children, going back to before the release of ASOS. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1106/ http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1189/
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Oct 16, 2013 01:00
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CumFart Gurantee posted:Because a black iron sign for an inn fell into a river and turned red from rust. That's pretty much it. Not quite. On the subject of theories, I added a section about them in the second post of the OP a couple days ago that I need to fill out more. If you guys want to be a big help you could suggest theories and essays I should add to the list.
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Oct 16, 2013 15:26
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CapnAndy posted:Really? You think Damphair is a fire zombie? He means Damphair is (technically) a revived corpse. What is dead may never die. quote:Sorry, why's that? I don't see anything contradictory in "Varys is a Targaryen loyalist who took the opportunity to save one of Rhaegar's heirs", or even "Varys does not like innocent bystanders being hurt and takes every pain to avoid it when possible". A baby switch would only work if Varys knew ahead of time that Aegon's face would be smashed to bits. Otherwise any number of court retainers could recognize the deception. Varys may have predicted the Sack but he can't have known Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch would be the ones to scale the Red Keep.
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Oct 16, 2013 16:52
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FogHelmut posted:I was re-reading this, and while compelling, what are an actor and a guy who directed a few episodes doing with advanced story knowledge that hasn't even been written? In this case I think it's just that they needed to be aware of certain character elements to prevent disrepancies for future storylines. Someone pointed out before that the show always has Melisandre wearing her ruby necklace, even when she's naked. It's not hard to imagine that someone told the directors and writers that Mel can never remove her necklace, they asked why, and they were told about the glamour. If nothing else, I can't imagine what else Alan Taylor might be referring to. e: I guess it's also possible that Alan Taylor was curious about Melisandre's comment that she has been fighting far longer than Stannis has, and someone told him. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 16:59
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CapnAndy posted:Y'know, it's interesting you bring up show knowledge, because that's what drives the final, unarguable stake into the "Melisandre is a zombie" theory. I'll stop you there because you're completely wrong. Go watch the scene again. Melisandre isn't shocked that Beric was revived, she is shocked because he was revived six times by drunken old Thoros. She seems relatively nonplussed by Beric's revival at first and even asks how many times (note the plural) he's been revived after examining him. It's only after Thoros drops the bombshell that she reacts with surprise. quote:I mean, I could bring up stuff like the fact that the dead remember that they died, and yet we spent time in Melisandre's head and she somehow managed to avoid thinking about that even once, or that the memories of the past fade away from the dead and yet Melisandre's remain sharp, or that the defining moment she continually flashes back to, the one that gives her nightmares that make her avoid sleep, is being sold as a slave, not dying. But it's just icing on the cake. This is also wrong. Beric was losing his memories because he was revived six times, and each subsequent revival cost him more of his former self. The first revival is not so costly. Catelyn clearly remembers everything she went through, even though she was dead for three days. Like her, Melisandre would retain her memories, especially if they were traumatic (as slavery tends to be). In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 20:08
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No Ned, just his voice.
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Oct 17, 2013 02:23
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TOOT BOOT posted:You know, I was thinking about book versus show timelines...won't we have to see Skaagos sooner rather than later in the show? I don't think they can conceivably leave Rickon and Osha out of the show for 2 or 3 seasons. I think the whole reason that Bran told Osha and Rickon to go to Last Hearth is so that they can stay in the story for a little longer. Ramsay seems to be under the impression that he's going to hunt Bran and Rickon in Season 3, so that would be a pretty simple way to give both groups something to do in Season 4. Have Ramsay and Theon go after Osha and Rickon, and end the season with them fleeing to Skaagos. Then, in Season 5, Manderly can send Davos after them. Davos is kind of SOL for this coming season though. He doesn't have any more ASOS chapters left so they'll either have to bump up his ADWD storyline like Bran's or come up with something else. Accelerating Stannis' storyline was such a bad idea. I don't know what Stannis is going to do on the nine episodes it will take for him to reach the Wall. Run into Asha?
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Oct 20, 2013 21:50
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CapnAndy posted:That was a planned assassination, they didn't throw it together in the fifteen minutes between when Jon started giving his speech and when he stepped outside. Actually I think that is exactly what happened. There was an interlude between Jon reading the letter and Jon getting stabbed where he talks with Tormund. Jon notices the conspirators walking out of the hall as soon as they see the wildlings rallying to Jon's cause. I think there was probably a conspiracy to oust Jon from power, but killing him? The entire assassination seemed haphazard and like a desperate last attempt to save the Watch. If Jon had managed to draw Longclaw he probably would have fought them off since he's a trained fighter and they are a bunch of fat stewards.
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Oct 22, 2013 01:57
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Jon played rules lawyer. He adhered to the letter of his oath but not the spirit. He knew what he was doing was wrong, he thinks that by allying with wildlings and marching south at least he will not force any of his brothers to break their oath as well. Jon is not an oath breaker in the a technical sense, but at the end of the day he is violating the neutrality of the Night's Watch and declaring war on the Boltons (which comes after a series of concession throughout ADWD where he abuses his powers as Lord Commander to interfere with politics in the North). If nothing else, by concerning himself with secular matters he is violating his most sacred duty: defending the realms of men from the Others. You can’t be the watcher on the walls if you’re constantly looking south. The guy who wrote about Dany in Meereen is also currently doing an analysis of Jon's story in ADWD. People should read it.
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Oct 22, 2013 05:18
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Seconded. Do your best.
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Oct 24, 2013 20:53
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escape artist posted:The show's Red Wedding was so, so much better than the book's. So much more impactful. You don't get 3 chapters of Catelyn whining for weeks. The whole "Don't you want to teach little Ned how to ride a horse" is so poignant. Watching Talisa stabbed in the womb was one of the toughest things I've ever seen. GRRM wrote the episode. David and Dan wrote that scene. Also disagree on the Show RW being better than the Book RW but whatevs.
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Oct 25, 2013 07:12
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I'm 100% positive Tyrion will just say it out loud. Yup, GRRM made sure of it. In Episode 8 of Season 1, Robb tells a Lannister scout to warn Tywin that 20,000 Northmen are marching south to see if he really does poo poo gold.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:58
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Talisa also does not fit the tone of the world at all. Beautiful foreign strong independant noble woman talks back to kings, travels the Riverlands without fear, and performs the duty of a Silent Sister without raising questions. Meanwhile, all the other real female character face tremendous amounts of adversity trying to defy the expectations enforced upon them by society. Talisa Maegyr laughs in the face of their struggle.
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Oct 26, 2013 19:15
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PootieTang posted:This is why I always wondered about her being a self-insert for one of the writers. This probably is a coincidence but I think it's funny that Talisa of Voltantis looks like a mirrored Vanessa Taylor.
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Oct 26, 2013 19:35
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So how's that long response to the Meereenese Blot coming along, CapnAndy?
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Oct 27, 2013 19:15
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Ballz posted:Yeah there are several wink winks to book readers, especially early on in season 3. Cersei saying she heard Tyrion completely lost his nose was another cute reference, and I want to say there were a couple of other things, although I can't remember them off-hand. In addition to Cersei's remark about Tyrion's nose and the Meereenese Knot, here's a few more I could think of: Olenna mentions Sansa's love of lemon cakes. Jaime remarks to Brienne that no one enjoys the company of a humorless mute. Joffrey excitedly tells Margaery about a bunch of prominent dead Targs and show them their remains (including Brightflame). One of Selyse's tube babies is called Edric. Locke tells Jaime to go gently caress himself with a golden hand.
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Oct 27, 2013 21:27
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Mortabis posted:Add Arya to that list. Arya is so doomed it's not even funny. The other Big Three I think are safe until ADOS, but if Arya dies in TWOW I will not be surprised. She is the most popular character with the least overall importance and significance to the overarching plot. She exists to be the biggest wham death. Dolash posted:Why is a fakeout that we all see coming any better writing? Cause I don't think it's meant to be viewed as a fakeout so much as a logical and essential development for Jon's character. Unlike some of the other end-of-book fakeouts where GRRM kept the character's fate a mystery until the next book (eg. AFFC Brienne, ACOK/AFFC Davos, ACOK Theon), GRRM has been pretty candid that something is up and that we shouldn't jump to conclusions about Jon (Oh so you think hes dead do you?). I don't think there was meant to be any ambiguity about Jon's eventual fate (coming back to life) and that the ellipses that end his final chapter are supposed to imply that his story is not over yet.
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Oct 30, 2013 02:55
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Mortabis posted:She allegedly has plot armor via Martin's wife insisting that he not kill her. That's fan lore extrapolated from this clearly facetious comment at a con: Over time, depending on who you ask, that has morphed into Parris threatening to leave GRRM if he kills Arya or GRRM making promises not to kill her and other such rubbish. As far as I can tell that's the extent of any mentioning about Parris' investment in the books. Every time someone mentions Arya dying you can bet someone will mention his wife though. hobbesmaster posted:He's a warg, the most dead he can be is stuck in a dire wolf. Brutus was haunted by Caeser's ghost. Bowen Marsh will wish he was only haunted by Ghost. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Oct 30, 2013 |
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Oct 30, 2013 04:29
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but he mentioned it when someone said that he's not allowed to kill Dany)
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rypakal posted:The only other option is Ramsey wrote the letter and isn't lying. Because at the very least he'd have to torture Mance to death to get all the information that only he knows. In addition, consider that Jon and the wildlings are literally the only faction in the entire country who wouldn't execute him if they got their hands on him. If Stannis wins (and he will) Mance is hosed. If the Boltons win (they won't but Mance doesn't know that), he's hosed. At least if Jon shows up with an army of raiders, Mance will have a chance to get to safety and/or parley for his life. Mance is a good enough judge of character that he could guess that something as blatantly provocative as the Pink Letter would simultaneously compel Jon to march south and also outrage the wildlings. Mance may have also been banking on the revelation of his survival would be enough to bring the wildlings south. Sexgun Rasputin posted:I would like the be reassured that the letter is fake. I could buy that Ramsay is lying. Does he need to torture Mance to get all that information? Mance's baby isn't a secret. Mance's identity is, and I guess one of Stannis's captured soldiers might have been able to identify him. We can be reasonably certain that the letter is a forgery due to a number of discrepancies with previous letters Ramsay sent (stuff like no stamped button of pink wax, it isn't written in blood, there's no piece of flayed skin, there's no mention of Ramsay's lovely handwriting). However, the biggest clue is the use of the term "black crows" to describe the brothers of the Night's Watch. Throughout all five books, "black crows" has only ever been used by wildlings (and Jon, in one instance where he was quoting wildlings he was talking to at the time). In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Oct 30, 2013 |
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Oct 30, 2013 06:56
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In order to defuse tensions in the castle, Roose sends the Freys and the Manderlys out to fight Stannis. Obviously, the Manderlys are plotting to betray the Freys and ally with Stannis, but more to the point the Freys are blundering into a trap. Stannis is currently camped out in a village about the three days from Winterfell, starving and wretched. The defining feature of the village is the frozen lake that is next to it. In ADWD, Asha notes that men are drilling holes in the ice in order to fish (or so she thinks). In Theon's TWOW preview chapter, Stannis is elated to learn that Roose has sent the Freys after them. He tells Theon that his men hold the ground and that he means to turn that to their advantage. Theon is surprised and exclaims that the village has no high ground or natural defenses. Stannis replies "Yet." Stannis is going to lure the Freys onto the frozen lake and shatter the ice beneath them. From there he can cannibalize the Freys for supplies and equipment and (likely) ally with the Manderlys. Besieging Winterfell is a trickier prospect, but I'll bet Theon's escape with Jeyne has put the Boltons on edge and left the castle in a state of near anarchy. Not to mention that the Umbers (and possibly many other northern houses) inside are certainly plotting treachery, and the Manderlys could easily pull the old Trojan Horse scheme and sneak Stannis' men into the castle. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Oct 30, 2013 |
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Oct 30, 2013 07:35
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I definitely meant it in the "stripping for parts" sense. Stannis burns a bunch of men-at-arms in ADWD for eating the dead. Stannis will do a lot of bad things before he breaks, but cannibalism isn't in the cards for him. Davos, on the other hand...
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Oct 30, 2013 17:01
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lifts cats over head posted:Just out of curiosity, how many times have you read the books? You've always managed to impress me with your readily available knowledge of seemingly minor details which, when pieced together, shine light on major themes and plot direction. I've only read the books in their entirety once (last year), but I've reread certain chapters, parts or storylines numerous times (I've done a Stannis reread for example) and I obsessively read online discussions so certain things stick out. It helps that a lot of the discussions in this thread are topics that come up a lot in other places.
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Oct 30, 2013 20:17
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