|
I find it funny that if you bother the code guy enough, he just outright tells you the answer. It is an unusually nice (for the game) to help avoid people getting stuck. Though in the update after with ripping the documents and hiding the equipment, logical in hindsight but definitely not something that I'd have thought of going in.
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2014 04:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 22:00 |
|
|
If it's only logical to you in hindsight you are not thinking enough like a spy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2014 06:16
|
|
|
dreggon posted:You do a lot of confusing things that don't appear logical to an onlooker. Would you be able to explain why you did all the things you did? Tearing up the documents that you're required to have on you to not be carted away? Dumping a whole lot of expensive surveillance equipment outside the building of a group that you work for? Sorry about that. I try to make things a bit clearer by adding internal monologues to Rukov, but I can't always come up with a logical reason for taking the route the game wants me to take. Our mission is to investigate a criminal organization in Leningrad, and to find out if it has any ties to KGB officers. We went to the Leningrad KGB under the pretense of finding out more about the criminals. Our true mission to find out if any members of the Leningrad KGB are involved in crime, especially Major Agabekov. We got a tip from a mysterious caller that Agabekov has a dark secret, and we want to find out what that is. At the moment, we are very suspicious of the Leningrad KGB. Galushkin warned us about them at the end of Chapter 1, and the dossiers he gave us painted a very unflattering picture of them. The dossiers say that two of the leading officers are likely involved in criminal activities. Naturally, if one of them were to take the dossiers off of us and read them, they'd probably be pissed at us. There's no law or regulation preventing us from tearing up the dossiers. You must be thinking of our KGB ID, which we didn't destroy. Secret agents usually destroy sensitive documents, anyway. We had plenty of reason to believe we'd be frisked upon entering the KGB building. After all, it's a secure location. We don't want some oafish guard to get his hands on our sensitive surveillance equipment. He might break it. Also, if the Leningrad KGB officers find out we're lugging around a lot of spy stuff, they'd be very suspicious of us. To beat this game, we have to be paranoid. We have to think ahead, and consider every possible consequence our actions could cause. We have to be suspicious of everyone, especially people we have reason to distrust. We have to think like a spy, as Deathwind put it. One wrong step will cause The upcoming bonus update doesn't show what happens if you don't get rid of the dossiers and surveillance equipment, but the one after it (Update 16 Bonus) will.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2014 06:24
|
|
|
Also just as a matter of principle the average adventure protagonist's inventory contains 14% items that could get him arrested by weight. It's just good sense to lighten the load.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2014 11:46
|
|
|
Update 15 Bonus Nothing too exciting this time. Just a bunch of chatting about politics with the receptionist.  Bielkin Talk about...the Party  So, you're a member. So am I! Of course, comrade. The room you occupy is reserved for visiting officers of our unstintingly heroic security services!--or-- Radiant indeed, comrade! Blindingly radiant, comrade!—or-- Radiant future! Aren't you a little optimistic? Thank you for correcting me, comrade. The outlook is bleak indeed! I commend your ability to adapt to change, comrade! Thank you, comrade! Unflinching adaptability is my watchword.—or-- Thank you for correcting me, comrade. The outlook is bleak indeed! You're a fool! Unstinting efforts will guide me to improved socialist thinking!Talk about...Gorbachev You dare suggest that perestroika was an error? Perestroika has been an inspirational socialist ideal! Long live restructuring at all levels!b001 Death to outmoded one-partyism! Destroy the backsliderist power-mongers!-or— Are you questioning unerring party hierarchy and planning? Glory to the democratic principles of the party apparatus!--or-- We Soviets need the unerringly stern guidance of Brezhnevism! Imperialist agents-provocateurs must be decapitated underfoot! Perestroika has been an inspirational socialist ideal! Long live restructuring at all levels! Correct progress is historical necessity! Backward thinkers must renounce strangle-holdism! The party must share power!—or-- Talk about...Yeltsin So clearly a slavering boot-licker and paid agent-provocateur! The party must deal with such social democratic criminalism! He used to be a very senior party-member. Before being lured by dollars soaked in the blood of the exploited masses! The traitors have revealed themselves in the harsh light of blinding truth! Your pessimism is rumor-mongering! Unstinting efforts will guide me to improved socialist thinking!—or-- He's the only hope for Russia's future! Never has anyone been so unstintingly idolized by the lucid masses! The iron fist of socialist justice must crush him underfoot! A demagogue! Cult of the personality! Rank deviationism and lowest-common-denominatorism of the foulest breed!EDIT: Xander77 posted:All that stuff with Yeltsin is like an irony Inception - ironically enough it was probably meant to be ironically wrong. David Copperfield posted:This is a country that would soon shell its own parliament, aka one that is in a lot of chaos about its future, on top of being a country that values absolute obedience. The whole conversation tree is the hotel manager trying to unflinchingly agree 100% with what you say, but it's relevant that he's doing it no matter which way you talk about Gorbachev or Yeltsin. red mammoth fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Sep 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2014 19:12
|
|
|
All that stuff with Yeltsin is like an irony Inception - ironically enough it was probably meant to be ironically wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2014 19:29
|
|
|
This is a country that would soon shell its own parliament, aka one that is in a lot of chaos about its future, on top of being a country that values absolute obedience. The whole conversation tree is the hotel manager trying to unflinchingly agree 100% with what you say, but it's relevant that he's doing it no matter which way you talk about Gorbachev or Yeltsin. So yeah, the Irony is intentional.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2014 22:05
|
|
|
Update 16 – Just a Cigar  Thank you for receiving me, comrade colonel.  As you are no doubt aware, no chekist likes Department P or anyone who works for it!  The creation of your department was a treacherous act forced on KGB center by so-called liberals in the Politburo! Most of them have been disposed of now, but you remain to spread poison and discord throughout the ranks of the security services! I'm starting to get a little scared. As if the minor corruption of a handful of individuals were sufficient reason to weaken the faith and resolve of thousands of selfless patriots and party stalwarts! I am doing my duty, comrade colonel. Not an original excuse, Rukov. Is that all? My time is precious. Some of us have honest patriotic toil to accomplish. Perhaps you can give me some information, comrade colonel? Where should I start my investigation? No idea! Now you'll have to excuse me. Oh, one thing more... Remember: if there's trouble, you'll be the first to assume the consequences. Guard!    Agabekov's certainly a change of pace from that Kusnetsov lunatic. The man on the phone said he had some dark secrets, but I don't know who he was or who he works for. Still, I guess I'm trusting his word enough to investigate the KGB building at his suggestion. I hope this doesn't turn out to be a mistake. Inspect the office Everything under lock and key. Doesn't look like I'll get much of a chance to look around, at least with Agabekov here. I wonder who gave him that cigar.Inspect Agabekov  A thrusting style. He's of about your height, though of slighter build.  You're captain Rukov of Department P, the terror of chekists from Leningrad to Vladivostok! Indeed I do. What are your duties? My duties are to organize the running of the department, in line with directives. Do current directives emanate from colonel Kusnetsov? Of course not. They come from Moscow center. What are your directives concerning me? To answer questions, within limits imposed by necessary discretion and workload. You are hunting down some gangsters. I suggest you follow any leads you may have. You are unlikely to discover anything useful to you here! Guess I'd better ask him about that American, Greenberg. What is your current policy concerning American spies? To survey them, naturally. They have always been present and will continue to be. That is natural. Our duty is to limit their activities to within acceptable norms and prevent any sabotage they may attempt to organize. We also survey their agents. Do you know of any Verto? Verto? No. I have no information on your Moscow gang. Are any Department 7 officers in contact with criminals? Several of our agents and informers are undoubtedly mixed up in illegal and anti-soviet activities. Standard procedure! As you know, our duty is to survey foreigners and any Soviet citizens who frequent them. Which informers would know about the videos? I'm afraid I wouldn't give you that information even if I could. Have you any reason to suspect one of your colleagues? None at all! They are excellent officers. Your reputation is excellent. I'm no more than a servant of the party and the Soviet Union. Comrade Kusnetsov's hands are not spotless. I refuse to discuss the merits of my colleagues with you! I doubt he's going to tell me anything important. I'm done here. Inspect the guard  Stolid, massive and unsmiling.Inspect Chapkin's door A small plaque says OPERATIONS. Hopefully comrade Chapkin will have some information for me.  Never mind that. I wonder where he is. Well, it can't hurt to try talking to Drobnista.We go to Drobnista's office, on the left end of the corridor.    Inspect the office Nothing lying around for curious eyes to devour. Inspect Drobnitsa  Harried and hostile. He's in poor physical shape. You are captain Drobnitsa? Yes. What are your duties? You're a pen-pusher. Does all department business pass through your hands? All business requiring administration, yes. Just the official stuff, eh? I am not at liberty to discuss the question in more depth. Do you know where comrade Chapkin is? No. Do you know of Verto? Mostly that he is the mafia hooligan whose Leningrad contacts you are currently attempting to trace. Are any Department 7 officers in contact with criminals? My orders do not include discussing that topic. Comrade major Agabekov must be an inspiration to you. Major Agabekov's exploits in Afghanistan are well-known. Chapkin enjoys his father-in-law's protection. Chapkin has the required qualities for an excellent career in the service of Soviet security. Comrade Kusnetsov's hands are not spotless. I wouldn't know. An excellent answer! I don't wish to listen to your insults, snooper! Please leave!  I learned absolutely nothing from him. More time wasted, and I have to be at Ladoga Park in less than an hour. The only thing that might be of interest is that cigar. I doubt it means much, but my mysterious friends wanted me to find something on Agabekov. The only thing I know is that he met someone here, and they left a cigar. Hey, it's better than nothing. If I can get Agabekov to leave his office for just a few minutes, I could take the cigar and look around his office for anything else of interest. If I recall correctly, Chapkin's office had a phone handy...  We call Agabekov.  Listen carefully. He doesn't recognize me. Good. I've always been adept at disguising my voice. Trouble is on the way! I'll be in front of the building in 3 minutes. Call me Yakovlev. It concerns a visitor from Moscow. I see. I'll be there.He hangs up.  Oh, hi. I was just leaving. We wait a while. 1:48 PM  Agabekov leaves. We slip into Agabekov's office while he's away. You'd think the guard would be a little more suspicious of all this, but maybe he isn't too bright.  Everything's locked away, but we do find the cigar in the trash. Inspect the cigar You're not an expert, but the band mentions Havana. Of rare quality. Cuban cigar, eh? Nice gift. Maybe it holds the key to finding out who he was meeting with, assuming that's relevant to this case.We hurry out of there before Agabekov comes back.  Hopefully he's not too suspicious, and doesn't notice the missing cigar.We get into the elevator.  You are escorted outside.  We pick up the equipment we left behind. Time to go to Ladoga Park.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2014 02:01
|
|
|
Wow, that cigar thing is pretty ridiculous.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2014 02:09
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:Wow, that cigar thing is pretty ridiculous. It's no fake cat-hair mustache. Downright approachable by adventure game standards.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2014 02:33
|
|
|
Funnily enough, googling "agabekov" returned this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Agabekov Presumably the developers included the reference because this Agabekov had a connection to France. Furthermore, where could Rukov possibly stash the equipment right in front of the KGB building and have it remain both secure and unnoticed by the security staff? Kopijeger fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Jan 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2014 02:38
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:
Beware unbridled skepticism!
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2014 03:24
|
|
|
quote:Furthermore, where could Rukov possibly stash the equipment right in front of the KGB building and have it remain both secure and unnoticed by the security staff? You really can't stash it at home either, after all it's surely going to be searched. In general, you probably don't want to lug it around yourself. You'd need a support team of sort, doing that for you. Maybe Rukov is a bit too much of a Stakhanov? Beware of glory seeking individualism, comrade.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2014 04:44
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:Funnily enough, googling "agabekov" returned this: It looks like there's an air vent on the left side of the screen.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2014 18:58
|
|
|
CarrKnight posted:I suppose that's the limit of running an intelligence operation single-handed. Comrade, Rukov's hard work only glorifies the Party. You would be wise not to doubt the motives of an esteemed Chekist and war hero. I'm really glad that red mammoth is playing this game instead of me, because the story & the characterisation of the decay of the final years of the Soviet Union is utterly fascinating, but these puzzles would have me pulling out my hair. Repeatedly. It's just done a marvellous job at capturing the whole ambience of that period, so I'm glad I get to see it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
red mammoth posted:It looks like there's an air vent on the left side of the screen. It is the local KGB office. If Rukov can stash his equipment there undisturbed, anyone could plant gear to spy on the building or even a bomb in the same location. The most reasonable solution would probably be to go to the park ahead of time and hide the gear there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2014 20:15
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:It is the local KGB office. If Rukov can stash his equipment there undisturbed, anyone could plant gear to spy on the building or even a bomb in the same location. The most reasonable solution would probably be to go to the park ahead of time and hide the gear there. I guess you could just pretend Rukov left the gear in his car or something. Update 16 Bonus Drobnista Your superiors have a low opinion of you. If that is so, then they must be right. My abilities are undoubtedly inferior to those of captain Chapkin, whose excellence has correctly been noticed by his father-in... by colonel Kusnetsov. Now, I must get down to the work I seem to do so poorly. Goodbye, comrade.You leave as requested. Upstairs Guard Vigilance at all times! Stand at ease.  So you're Rukov, are you? Precisely. And you are Kusnetsov! Why, you insolent puppy! Guard!     Same thing happens if you tell him you'll report his attitude to your superiors. What happens if the guard takes the dossiers off of you: I've just been informed about what was taken from you downstairs. It seems clear that your superiors are hostile to Department 7. You'll appreciate that I can't be expected to help you in your schemes! Guard!From there, the same stuff happens as when you're insolent towards Kusnetsov. If the guard takes the microphone off of you, it's broken when you get it back. No game over, but the game becomes unwinnable at this point.  Sorry, comrade. I think I broke your microphone. I'm so clumsy!
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2014 23:25
|
|
|
Update 17 – Meeting in Ladoga Park   We arrive with plenty of time to spare. Let's take a look around. Inspect the park A peaceful city park. Inspect the statue  From high above, Lenin's uncompromising gaze fires you with zeal.Inspect the building  Nothing suspicious about this example of Soviet architecture, expressing as it does the soaring poetry of socialist toil.Inspect the mural  Inspirational work. Crumbling in top right-hand corner.Inspect the metro entrance  A magnificent portal.We head to the other side of the park.  Inspect the tree  Beloved of dogs.Inspect the bench  An impressive bench. That bench looks like a good meeting place. I'll bug it. We hide the microphone in the bench.  As I recall, the receiver can only receive transmissions from the bug 20 meters away. I'll keep it with me, and hide behind the statue.We could hide behind the tree, too, if we wanted. 2:55 PM A blond-haired man arrives and sits down on the bench. Inspect the surly man  A tough-looking character. I wonder if he's Romeo's contact. I'd say it's a good time to start the recording. Time to take some photographs.We try to take a picture of the man on the bench.  drat it. Not here. Not now. I can't believe this. The good news is that the blame for this lies completely with HQ. The bad news is that Vovlov is just going to blame me anyway. I'll bet he sabotaged me deliberately. He's always been looking for a way to screw me, and now he finally found one. Bastard. 3:01 PM 3 PM and Romeo's not here. I'm starting to get worried.3:05 PM  Ah, here he is. Fashionably late.   They swap briefcases.   Romeo leaves. We switch off our recording, since the conversation's over. drat, I couldn't hear anything they said. Time to put those headphones to use. We switch from voice-activated to manual playback.  We rewind and play recording 1. Start of recording timed at 3:05 pm.  You wouldn't be from Moscow? Friend of Yak's. That's good. You have the items? Sure. Right here. In the briefcase. No problems then. No. From now on, Yak's our representative here, okay? Yeah. Don't worry. I'll be phoning him later. Okay. See you sometime... Maybe. Have a nice trip home. Oh, by the way. We had problems with a snooper. Be careful. Problems? Anyone even looks at me and he's dead. Voice 2 (blue) is obviously Romeo. He was the one who came with the briefcases, and he's from Moscow. Plus, I recognize his voice from before. That means Voice 1 (red) is the surly blond-haired fellow. It seems that someone called Yak is the go-between.3:10 PM  We get off the Lenin statue, take our microphone off the bench, and follow him.   We follow him into the metro station.   3:16 PM A man in a blue suit arrives. He is somehow familiar to us.    Inspect Chapkin  A sleek and confident character. Medium height and build.Somehow Rukov knows that the man in blue is Chapkin, Kusnetsov's son in law who was missing from Department 7 earlier. Maybe the dossiers came with a file photo. So it's true that he's involved in criminal activities.  Chapkin said he was going to speak to K. Probably his father-in-law Kusnetsov. I don't know where Romeo's contact is going, and I need to follow that briefcase. I'd better follow him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2014 01:25
|
|
|
ok, dumb question, what spy would head out on a mission like this without testing his equipment at headquarters?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2014 02:08
|
|
|
Is it possible to listen to the conversation in real-time by using the headphones while the two men are speaking, or is that not how that technology works at all?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2014 02:25
|
|
|
Dreggon posted:Is it possible to listen to the conversation in real-time by using the headphones while the two men are speaking, or is that not how that technology works at all? The conversation doesn't play out in real time. As soon as Romeo arrives, the game just jumps to the end of their talk. Deathwind posted:ok, dumb question, what spy would head out on a mission like this without testing his equipment at headquarters? That's a pretty good question, actually. It would have been a good idea for Rukov to check out his equipment before the mission started. Maybe it just slipped his mind. He is pretty new to this spy business, after all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2014 02:33
|
|
|
quote:ok, dumb question, what spy would head out on a mission like this without testing his equipment at headquarters?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2014 03:11
|
|
|
red mammoth posted:That's a pretty good question, actually. It would have been a good idea for Rukov to check out his equipment before the mission started. Maybe it just slipped his mind. He is pretty new to this spy business, after all. He is former Spetsnaz. Checking his gear before setting out on a mission should be second nature to him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2014 03:30
|
|
|
Simple answer: the devious chekists at Department 7 broke his shutter to prevent Rukov from completing his mission while he was inside the building.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2014 03:34
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:He is former Spetsnaz. Checking his gear before setting out on a mission should be second nature to him. Never mind that, then. Looks like it's just a plot hole. Maybe I could have had Rukov check his equipment at the apartment, to alleviate this somewhat. Too late now, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2014 04:50
|
|
|
Update 17 Bonus Following Romeo:    We follow the cab.  Your failure results in severe disciplinary mesaures the nature of which is best left unmentioned here. Talking to the surly blond man:  Afternoon, comrade. Afternoon. I have a pistol aimed at your guts! Go to hell! Talking to Chapkin:  Comrade captain Chapkin? Yes? So you're a criminal, Chapkin! Who the hell are you? A colleague. Show me your ID. Naturally.   You spend an uncomfortable couple of hours at Leningrad KGB. A surveillance mission requires discretion; your lack of it shouldn't prove too much of a handicap on the icebreaker Polar Enthusiasm, your new posting. Use the next five years to analyse your failings, comrade. Here's the alternate choices: Stay here: That wasn't your most inspired decision, Rukov. You just lost your only lead! To fail on a mission as easy as this one is inadmissible and may very well be construed as sabotage. What future you have doesn't bear description. Follow Romeo's contact's contact (Chapkin): Your quarry is clearly in the habit of covering his tracks and knows the Leningrad Metro system by heart. You lose him! That means you have no more leads to follow and have therefore sabotaged your mission. Your future, needless to say, is not one many would care to share.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
Update 18 - Preparations We've followed Romeo's contact to a place called Hammer and Sickle Street.   I wish I had brought a pair of binoculars. Wait a minute! The camera's viewfinder! We use the camera to zoom in on the blond man.  Glad that piece of junk is good for something. Inspect Hammer and Sickle Street This is the kind of area you could get your throat cut in. Inspect the Metro entrance  A little uncared for, as befits the neighborhood.Inspect the metal door  Made to keep the curious out. It has a spyglass.Inspect the door buzzer  An unprepossessing white button.Inspect the bar door  A sinister look. Rough-looking joint. Still, I wouldn't mind getting something to drink later. He wasn't in there very long. I'd better get in there and see where he put the briefcase.We use the keypad.   We punch in '14C9A'.  Inspect the storeroom A draughty warehouse. Inspect the painting  A Leningrad beauty spot seen from behind.Inspect the cases  These are cardboard packing cases, containing grade 3 (slightly defective) electric plugs.Inspect the desk  Inspect the briefcase  A newish gray leather briefcase. You find video cassettes.Inspect the video cassettes  A dozen VHS video cassettes. There are no labels. I'm going to bring down these bastards. I swear. I'll look around this warehouse. Maybe there's a meeting place of some sort.First, though, we put the tapes back in the briefcase, and then put the briefcase back on the desk. Wouldn't want to arouse suspicion. We then head through the door to the next room.  Looks a lot like the front-room. Inspect the packing cases  These packing cases contain plastic dress shoes for export. This might be a good place to hide.Hint, hint. We try the door on the right, first.   Inspect the garage door  It has a keypad code lock. It also has a spyglass. It's locked.Inspect the closet  This roomy tool closet is unused and has no tools. Another potential hiding place. Doesn't look like there's much else of interest here. We exit the closet and leave the room.  Now we try the door on the left.  Inspect the file cabinet It contains no files. Inspect the door  A tough door with secure locks. It's locked.Inspect the books  Books on bookkeeping. Very dusty and unused.Inspect the window  Heavily barred with a view on a grimy backstreet.Inspect the desk  Remarkably clean, tidy and empty.Inspect the office A somewhat untidy office with no hiding place for you. This is probably where business is conducted, however, and it would be interesting to hear any conversations that take place in here. This looks like a good place to bug.We hide the microphone in the books, though we could also have hidden it in the file cabinet or the desk. Then we leave.  There's one place in this warehouse we haven't visited yet. We climb up the stairs to the loft.   Inspect the skylight  We unlock it. That could come in useful later. We then climb back down. The crates are a good place to hide the recorder. It's close enough to the bug, it's easy to get to, and it's hard to find. We start recording, put the recorder inside one of the crates, and then leave the building.  drat, I'm thirsty. Better get something to drink.We head into the bar.  Inspect the client  Obviously a regular in this bar. He doesn't like occasional visitors.Inspect the barman  He's seen every kind of client there is and hasn't yet met one he's afraid of.We talk to the scruffy-looking guy to the right. Afternoon, comrade! Go away. Take some advice, stranger: leave us alone. Rough crowd. I'm not sure if I want a drink after all.We head through the door on the left.  Inspect the room This unclean room appears to be no more than somewhere you go through on your way to somewhere else. We go upstairs.  Inspect the room Disused, damp, and disgusting. Inspect the skylight  We unlock it, and then slide through it.  Yes. Just as I'd hoped. The two skylights connect.Inspect the roof The tiles are rickety. We climb through the warehouse skylight.  I now have another escape route, should I ever need one.We climb down and hide in the packing crates.  They should arrive any minute now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 21:03
|
|
|
This game's doing a great job of illustrating the tension and suspense of such a dangerous espionage mission... and then there's the cartoon spy-face to show where you're hiding. Sigh.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 21:25
|
|
|
This is awesome, but also kind of thought-provoking that the game does very little hand-holding but demands near perfection. The only modern games I can think of that allow for that much foresight are the Hitman series but you can at least strongarm those when they go belly up. Games just don't offer this depth of failure anymore but what was dumbed down first, the games or us? Also, no ghost dad conversations lately. Are they unavailable/boring/as useless as your uncle?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 10:29
|
|
|
tomanton posted:This is awesome, but also kind of thought-provoking that the game does very little hand-holding but demands near perfection. The only modern games I can think of that allow for that much foresight are the Hitman series but you can at least strongarm those when they go belly up. Games just don't offer this depth of failure anymore but what was dumbed down first, the games or us? Repeated failure can be very disheartening - unless the developers really know what they're doing, it can swiftly leach all the fun out of the game. I think that's why I never got very far in this game when I had it as a kid; I couldn't see where I was going wrong and didn't have the patience for endless trial-and-error. That's why games like Monkey Island left behind the die-a-million-times philosophy of the old Sierra adventures, and I can only see that as an improvement to the fun of the game rather than a dumbing down. Things have been dumbed down for the console generation, of course - or at least, very much streamlined. I think changing demographics are the reason for this - you have more adult gamers these days (those of us who were kids back in the 80s), who have much more disposable income than they used to but much less free time to really dig in to a deep, involved game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 12:54
|
|
|
Old Sierra-type adventure games were less about "what's my goal and how do I get to it" and more about "what exact sequence of actions does the developer want me to take?" Hitman as an example has several completely valid ways to do each level. You have to kill your target, but you can use poison (either direct injection or on something consumable), shoot your target with a sniper rifle from a distance, lure them into a room and strangle them, or just charge into the level and kill everyone to death with your guns. Adventure games, you get one path, and you will frequently find yourself in unwinnable situations with no indication that you've done anything wrong. That's just how games were back then. Budgets were a lot smaller and metrics of what would sell and what wouldn't were limited by the lack of data sets. Despite that, older adventure games are awesome fun. The penalty for screwing up is that you have to do it again, but properly. You learn. Newer games, go from point A to point B to point C etc. etc. until the developer has told their story. One question - at the start of the most recent update, why does the clock jump from 3:17pm to 3:50pm?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 14:24
|
|
|
Oh! Here's something I neglected to mention about Uncle Vanya's gloomy abode - it doesn't have a piano! It doesn't have any carpets hanging on the walls either (for insulation, yeah, but mainly as an ostentatious display of disposable income), but some "intelligentsia" class family didn't approve of such crass displays. But a piano? That's a must. It might be completely out of tune, it might have served as nothing more than a particularly cumbersome shelf for years, but you can't have a "kulturniy" home without a piano. One of those things you may not note when you study Russian homes from media rather than by living in one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 15:58
|
|
|
We don't see the entire apartment, so there might be a piano on one of the other walls. On a different note, there is a joke about our hero still having his books about childhood heroes like Spidercomrade and Tractorcomrade. What kind of books would a boy growing up in the 1970s Soviet Union actually be likely to have read?
Kopijeger fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jan 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 16:43
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:We don't see the entire apartment, so there might be piano on one of the other walls. On a different note, there is a joke about our hero still having his books about childhood heroes like Spidercomrade and Tractorcomrade. What kind of books would a boy growing up in the 1970s Soviet Union actually be likely to have read? Books about Yuri Gagarin, probably.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 17:09
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:We don't see the entire apartment, so there might be a piano on one of the other walls. On a different note, there is a joke about our hero still having his books about childhood heroes like Spidercomrade and Tractorcomrade. What kind of books would a boy growing up in the 1970s Soviet Union actually be likely to have read? I grew up a bit later than that, but I don't think the books changed. A lot of Marshak's books, classic fairy tales. Sherlock Holmes was the poo poo. Winnie the Pooh was very popular, too. If you were lucky enough to know a guy who knows a guy at school, you could get a lovely quality carbon copy of Western science fiction, for one night only. Lots of books about war, too, not just WWII, but modern stuff. My grandfather also had a copy of the Partisan's Companion that I read end to end a number of times, but that might be atypical. There were no superheroes, in the Western sense. Supernatural abilities were rare in fiction. I only remember two instances: a short story about a policeman who was very tall, and, of course, Karlsson. A lot of the books were about Young Pioneers or similarly "nice" children getting up to an acceptable amount of mischief and then thwarting the plans of some corrupt Bourgeois/border smugglers/anti-social elements. Xander77 posted:Oh! Here's something I neglected to mention about Uncle Vanya's gloomy abode - it doesn't have a piano! It doesn't have any carpets hanging on the walls either (for insulation, yeah, but mainly as an ostentatious display of disposable income), but some "intelligentsia" class family didn't approve of such crass displays. But a piano? That's a must. It might be completely out of tune, it might have served as nothing more than a particularly cumbersome shelf for years, but you can't have a "kulturniy" home without a piano. I was about to say "but Xander, we did not have a piano!" and then I remembered we did, but my interaction with it was limited to elbowing the keys to make some horrible sounds as a child. I was not a proper wunderkind, I could neither play the piano nor the violin, and could barely recite any theorems at all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
When I might have a slightly more in-depth answer when I can check out my parents bookshelves. But some things I can come up with: Detective stories. Some translated stuff (Sherlock Holmes yeah) - Russian detectives were mostly (entirely?) police procedurals, as the standard talented amateur who makes trained detectives look like utter fools would be politically incorrect (I actually rather like that). The Meeting Place Cannot Be Changed is probably the best one (the same authors, the Vainer brothers, had quite a lot of similarly decent detective stories, most of which were adapted to the screen as well, but never quite as successful) 18th and 19th century adventure stories - Stevenson, Dumas obviously, but also a great deal of stuff that isn't really that popular in the US nowadays - "The Diamond Thieves", Quentin Durward and the likes. Through that, some of Conan Doyle's (relatively) more esoteric stuff, Rider Haggard, Jack London, Kipling (oddly enough) Mark Twain (the full Twain collection contains so much fluff that almost no one in the West would bother with - essays, anecdotes, all sorts of stuff that was barely relevant when published and utterly outdated decades latter). Limited editions of translated sci-fi, carefully screened. Jules Verne and Wells are prefectly acceptable, Heinlein a bit less so (that Russophobia of his would probably have gotten him banned regardless of what he actually wrote), Asimov is somewhere in the middle. Soviet sci-fi was fairly decent (the Stugratski brothers are still my favorite writers, period) but fantasy was generally discouraged (for a good reason - the flood of terrible generic fantasy that took over the Russian literature market once there was no one around to stop it was overhwelming) As the Ensign pointed out, a great deal of war literature, some better some worse. I'm still rather fond of The Story of a Real Man. As to the generic "Russian literature" you're probably thinking about - the 19th century classics? I don't really know if anyone read Gogol or Tolstoy as a teenager outside school assignments. I read Pushkin and Dostoevsky, but I don't know if that was the norm for USSR teens. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jan 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 21:36
|
|
|
I made it halfway through War and Peace before I decided I could not be bothered. They never made us read the whole thing at school, just excerpts. Dead Souls was pretty cool, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 23:53
|
|
|
I love hearing about life in the Soviet Union. Thanks for adding so much to the thread, Xander and Ensign and everyone else.tomanton posted:This is awesome, but also kind of thought-provoking that the game does very little hand-holding but demands near perfection. The only modern games I can think of that allow for that much foresight are the Hitman series but you can at least strongarm those when they go belly up. Games just don't offer this depth of failure anymore but what was dumbed down first, the games or us? As for the game's difficulty, it would be interesting to figure out how to remake the game to be more playable while keeping its hard and unforgiving feel. Maybe make it so that you can just jump back to the spot where you really messed up once you get into an unwinnable situation. Dreggon posted:One question - at the start of the most recent update, why does the clock jump from 3:17pm to 3:50pm?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2014 01:18
|
|
|
A checkpoint system that saves at points where you can't possibly have already failed without realizing it would be pretty good. That way you don't have to wonder if you are failing because of something you did or didn't do 5 screens ago, and it eliminates the possibility of you needing to restart the game completely.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2014 02:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 22:00 |
|
|
quote:This is awesome, but also kind of thought-provoking that the game does very little hand-holding but demands near perfection. My problem with old lucas arts games was that if you didn't know how to go on you were stuck. Forever. So either you tried combining every item against every other item, or you'd just get a walkthrough. Here instead you die frequently, and horribly. But when you do die, you usually know what is wrong. I didn't prepare an escape route, I aroused suspicion, I made a bad call. It's a better feedback loop, I think, then standard games. But it doesn't work perfectly. Take the example of the cocaine you need to flush down the toilet in Chapter 1. There is a very limited time frame where you can do it. And if you don't, the game is unwinnable: Rita will never let you out the torture chamber. In that case, the game just fucks with you. Also, thank you for this playthrough and thanks for the soviet union descriptions
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2014 05:03
|
|