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Welcome to Year Three of the Brewhaus! Now with the DON’T POST YOUR ENTIRE COMMANDER LIST IN THE loving THREAD rule in the title. Year two went really well, with lots of discussion on standard stuff and the invention of the Breakfast Burrito. The biggest problem we’ve run into --as you can probably guess-- has been a rash of people ignoring the Use a link to deckstats/tappedout for your Commander/EDH DECKS rule. Complete Commander lists are annoying to scroll past, just post a link to the list or a MODO screenshot if it’s online. Click here to go to the Main Discussion Thread! Headed by BJPaskoff Click here to go to the Limited Thread! Headed by Vanilla Bison Click here to go to the Eternal Formats Thread! Some important things to note before you post your deck:
I can’t repeat this enough (and I’m going to repeat this all over this post) use only a link to deckstats/tappedout for your Commander/EDH DECKS. Enough with the notes, on to some of the deck building basics. Before you build:
Use a link to deckstats/tappedout for your Commander/EDH Decks Now that I've mentioned them... Deck Archetypes
Use a link to deckstats/tappedout for your Commander/EDH Decks Next up, Building! While you build:
I can't stress enough how much you have to consider your mana base. Click here to see a list of all the lands available in Standard as of Theros Your main breakdowns on the lands: Basic Lands: Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountian, Forest. Shocklands (Blood Crypt, Temple Garden, Breeding Pool, etc): Typed Duals that enter the land tapped unless you pay two life (Shocking yourself). Temples: Duals that enter the field tapped, upon entry, you get to Scry 1 (look at the top card of your library and choose to keep it there or put it on the bottom of your library) In Theros, these cards match the colors of the Shocklands released in Gatecrash. We’ll get the Return to Ravinaca colors through the rest of the Theros block. Guildgates (Azorious, Orzhov, Boros, etc.): These operate similar to Shocklands, but give you no option to have them enter untapped, are typed gate, and have some interactions with a few other things. Maze’s End: The most prominent of the cards that cares about Gates. This is the win condition in the deck of the same name. Grove of the Guardian: Generally isn’t incredible, but when you need a huge dude, you need a huge dude. Mutavault: The only available manland in the format, an absolute all star of a card. Shimmering Grotto and Unknown Shores: These are purely around to fix your mana, primarily in limited. Transguild Promenade: Another land used primarily in limited. It’s not a very good option for constructed. Thespian’s Stage: You should be running this in Commander/EDH Rouge’s Passage: An odd utility land that tends to be too slow to be useful in standard. It’s good fun in casual and limited. Encroaching Wastes: Relatively weak in terms of non-basic land destruction, but the only land based way to do so in standard. Use a link to deckstats/tappedout for your Commander/EDH Decks After it's built:
One other thing to note when you're building your deck is that there's a good chance you're going to have a "pet card" you want to try to shoehorn into every deck you build. For Conley Woods and myself, it's Acidic Slime. Be aware of this card and make absolutely SURE it fits into your deck. Alternatively, the OP of this MTG Salvation thread does an excelent job of going over all of this. Some questions you may ask: Can I post the full list of my Commander/EDH deck? Use a link to deckstats/tappedout for your Commander/EDH Decks DON’T POST FULL LISTS OF COMMANDER/EDH DECKS Use a link to deckstats/tappedout for your Commander/EDH Decks How many of each card do I want in my deck? Here's a good way of looking at it (this excludes basic lands): Four of a specific card: I want this card in my opening hand and/or want to see as many copies of it as possible (Snapcaster Mage, Restoration Angel) Three of a specific card: Having this in my opening hand isn't bad, but I generally only want to see one or two copies of it during the course of a game (Legendary Creatures, Planeswalkers) Two of a specific card: I'd like to see this card on occasion, but never really want it in my opening hand. One of a specific card: I NEVER want to see more than one of this card or something I'll be searching for with a tutor effect or drawing through massive amounts of draw. (Singletons are often a deck win condition in vintage or legacy, and frequently a win condition in a combo deck.) Why does my deck keep getting slaughtered by this other type of deck? Your deck may have an inherent weakness to that deck. As an example, a creature ramp deck can be stalled out horribly by a mono-red burn deck. A deck with no flyers can be completely out of luck if your opponent drops a large flyer like a Baneslayer Angel. That mono-red burn deck has a huge weakness to life gain and shroud/hexproof creatures. You have three options to deal with this. First, you can make main deck changes. Second, you can dedicate slots in your sideboard to shore up this match. Third, you can just accept that your deck is bad against that type of deck. What's a sideboard? That's 15 extra cards you can use to modify your deck between games in a tournament. You can use this to solidify your deck against a bad match up, or transform your deck into something else. It's a good idea to consider your sideboard options in parallel to your main 60. How do I tune my deck for my local metagame, what about my sideboard? Well, thats a bit of a doozy and specialized. You'd need to tell us what your expected metagame is, then we can help you. I'm running a Mono-color deck and would like to include Fetch Lands for deck thinning. Is this a good idea? The short answer is No. The long answer is, "for purely deck thinning purposes, it's not a good idea since the life cost for the deck thinning effect is too high." That said, there are OTHER reasons to use Fetch lands in any kind of deck. A. You need lands in the graveyard for something 2. You need a shuffle effect (for ponder, brainstorm, other things that require certain cards on top) D. Landfall triggers (from Zendikar and Worldwake) eff. Mana Fixing in multi-color decks. I want to build a mill de-- Stop right there. There's something you need to know about Mill decks. Outside of limited, there's only ever been ONE time a Mill deck has been constructed tournament competitive, and that was only because the metagame had developed into numerous slow decks. Mill decks are essentially slow burn decks, but instead of having to do 20 damage to your opponent, you have to do somewhere around FIFTY THREE DAMAGE while simultaneously trying to ignore you dwindling life total. If you want to build one, have fun, but you're going to be at a disadvantage outside of a casual FNM. Why did you rip my awesome deck to shreds? It was the best thing in the world! You have no idea what you're talking about! While there's a decent chance that someone commenting on your deck may not have the best deck building sense (including me), the same holds true for you. Also, I warned you this would happen, and even gave you this link earlier. Put your ego aside, we're trying to help. Hay guyz! I just got given a bunch of new cards from someone and I want to post my deck list. Should I do it?" JerryLee put it pretty succinctly in the first thread, but I'll sum it up here: Probably not. If your card pool is really tiny what you can put together isn't going to be of much interest to us, and you're likely to be ignored. If you want to list out a fully fleshed out deck (include cards you want to acquire for it) BASED ON what you currently have, that's fine. My deck didn't get commented on.  This is likely to happen for any number of reasons. More often than not this tends to happen for Legacy and Vintage decks posted, but don’t worry if you want to talk older formats, Go here and post the list. Another reason your deck may have been ignored is because you didn't specify what format it's for and/or your budget. You could have also posted in the middle of a fury of decks being posted and it was just missed. Don't take it personally, this just a single thread in a sub-forum of a sub-forum that's doesn't exactly have a huge amount of traffic. That said, If you want to get competitive, don't hesitate to go to Star City Games top deck lists from their open series and use that as a place to start on the type of deck you want to use. I'd like to remind everyone to INCLUDE WHAT FORMAT YOU'RE BUILDING YOUR DECK FOR! The format a deck is built for is key to getting help. If you'd like to get a hold of me in regards to something with the thread, talk Wizard Poker Deck building, or berate me for being a jackass, feel free to PM me or use the contact information in my profile. I also have an account on MODO at LLJKYeehawMcK, but I'm not on with any regularity. Happy Brewing.
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Sep 30, 2013 00:30
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DO 
and win in one fell swoop. Examples inclue thopter/depths (which could generate a 20/20 flying indestructible on turn two), hive mind, and the first major combo Channel/Fireball.
at your opponent, your mana curve should terminate at a converted mana cost of NO HIGHER than four and the majority of your spells hovering around the CMC 2 range. There's no hard and fast rule for what a mana curve should look like. 
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A topic of conversation we had was the 'Optimal Agro Deck' simulator that Frank Karsten on Channel Fireball was working on and AnacondaHL was continuing with.quote:Okay, well first an introduction quote:Control Experiment #1: How about the All Goblin Guide deck? Question: How much slower is Savannah Lions versus Goblin Guide? Control Experiment #2: In a format with only Savannah Lions and land, the optimal build (mulliganing 0, 5, 6, and 7 landers) is: 40 Savannah Lion 20 Land Average turn kill: 4.70 Excellent. We could have guessed everything was a turn slower, but it's nice to see the simulations agree, and confirm the optimal build for a 6 Lion/3 Land game. For those of you enough to remember the days without the 4 card limit, this should spark some nostalgia for the 40 Kird Ape + 20 Taiga deck.[/quote] quote:Control Experiment #3: In a format with only Grizzly Bears and land, the optimal build (mulliganing 0, 1, and 6, 7 landers) is: quote:Control Experiments #4 and #5: In a format with only Watchwolfs, and with only Putrid Leeches, the optimal decks (mulls of 0, 1, 6, and 7 landers) are: quote:Control Experiment #6: In a format with only Geist of St Traft and land, the optimal build (mulliganing 0, 1, and 6, 7 landers) is: The other topic of conversation going on was about just how wild and wacky Bestow creatures are and how craaaaazy the Theros gods are. Here's the deal with bestow creatures: quote:You don't "cast" the card and then choose to pay its bestow cost, rather you make that decision as part of the casting process. As for the gods (since this came up for me yesterday in a win a case tournament) I cast Purphoros playing MURDER GOATS against w/u control and my opponent tried to essence scatter. I called the event judge to check and see exactly what the hell is going on with this since it does have creature type in the line. The call the judge made was that Essence Scatter couldn't even target the god due to the fact it's ability to be a creature is defined by the intervening if devotion clause. The other reasoning for this is that Swansong was specifically printed as an answer to the gods, and swansong can't counter creature spells. The nut shell of this: Gods have the type creature because it's needed for their devotion clause. Everywhere but the battlefield, they're enchantments. I'm not saying this was the right call, but it was the call made.
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Sep 30, 2013 01:01
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Yeah, I mean I was the guy who profited from the call and I didn't even think it was right.
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Sep 30, 2013 02:12
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bhsman posted:Glad to see Murdergoats made the cut. I ran that variant in a tournament yesterday, here's the notes I can give you about it. This thing has an amazing control matchup. It's doing stuff most control players don't expect in the slightest and occasionally just cums huge, sloppy, gobs of damage to their face and they lose. Sphinx's Rev draw ends up doing less for them over the course of the game, and it all ends up pretty awkward for them. Sweepers don't matter, this doesn't attack all that often so A. Charm gets relgated to cycling, half the deck barely feels like it should be counterspelled. Midrange matchups are a bit tougher but winnable if you get board position first. Aggro rolls it over, hard. Still, the deck is a god damned riot to play. Some specific cards: Read the Bones got sided out against everyone, even control decks. In a vacuum it seems good, but my experience was that the life loss wasn't worth the trade. Dreadbore initially it seemed like this was going to be too slow, but being able to just pop a Jace or Desecration Demon was incredibly helpful. Mizzium Mortars wasn't incredible, I was getting slapped around by red base decks, so something like lightning strike or doom blade might be better for now. Purphoros: You having it at four of initially wasn't a bad thought, but I was stuck with one in hand for a lot of time even dropping to three. I just slotted in another Molten Birth to cover for it and holy crap it worked. Trading Post: Does huge amounts of work, but the metagame has a bit too much aggro at this point to really work with four of these. I might drop to one or two main deck to cram something in that helps with the aggro matchup. Their spot in the 75 is well earned. My sideboard was different. Peak Eruption and Burning Earth did huge amounts of work. Duress was functional. Slaughter Games made control matchups even more of a joke. Rakdos charm was primarily there for dealing with artifacts, but I did slap someone for half their life one game. Pithing Needle never got used. I may even give something funny like Showstopper a shot in here as a two of at some point, but it really needs more effective ways of dealing with aggro, reckoner, and bigger things like Desecration Demon.
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Sep 30, 2013 04:58
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I was able to pick up most of the easy stuff over the weekend (including a playset of Tymaret - one of them foily in case I ever want to give him a shot in EDH), and I've decided to work on making a B/R control deck while I gather the material for Murdergoats.
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Elephant Ambush posted:edit: I showed this to a friend who is working on a similar deck and he said that he's been running sims with Cloudfin Raptor in place of Clone. He said it can get up to 3/4 or 4/5 with no real problems as long as Thassa hits the table as a creature. I might give that a try since it speeds up the deck a ton. Any thoughts on that? This may be wrong (because the gods are a pain in the rear end), but I've heard an explanation that says that the gods DON'T trigger evolve because they land as enchantments. Any rules gurus to clear things up?
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Sep 30, 2013 05:05
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:What kind of midrange did you run up against? Since sweepers don't really matter, would Anger of the Gods be a good play against aggro, and if not Flames of the Firebrand? First round I ran up against B/R/w with Boros Reckoner and Desecration Demons. Warleaders Helix, lightning strike, chained to the rocks, and one or two other pieces of removal. Matchup really came down to who established board position first Second round was pure mono red aggro. They were able to curve out cackler to ash zealot to more small stuff. Anger of the Gods would have helped here. Fourth round was Boros Aggro, I got game one when he stumbled and misplayed, but couldn't get removal online or through Brave the Elements though. I did get to drill him for half his life total with Rakdos Charm though, earned a fist bump from him with that one. bhsman posted:That all sounds pretty awesome, but I'm not surprised about it rolling over to Aggro; I know we joke about wanting Pyroclasm back but the deck doesn't make friends with Anger of the Gods due to it removing Tymaret from the game. I saw enough aggro decks at FNM to convince me to run a more Control-ish deck (which can be found here if anyone wants to take a gander) until the format slows down. Largely the same conclusion I came to, but I'll probably make multiple changes to see if there's really anything that can be done with the aggro match. YeehawMcKickass fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Sep 30, 2013 |
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Sep 30, 2013 18:28
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I said I wasn't going to give up on MURDERGOATS, and I wasn't lying! This will be for FNM, and I'm expecting the meta to skew aggro. Deck: MURDER GOATS! v2   //Land 4 Blood Crypt 2 Rakdos Guildgate 11 Mountain 4 Swamp 3 Mutavault //Creatures 4 Tymaret, the Murder King 4 Young Pyromancer 4 Frostburn Weird //Spells 3 Purphoros, God of the Forge 3 Dreadbore 3 Shock 3 Molten Birth 2 Rakdos's Return 2 Lightning Strike 3 Magma Jet 3 Rakdos Keyrune 2 Trading Post //Sideboard 3 Doom Blade 2 Ultimate Price 2 Rakdos Charm 2 Slaughter Games 3 Peak Eruption 3 Mizzium Mortars  Display deck statisticsThe biggest change here is the addition of Frostburn Weird. It's a four butt for two mana that can crack back for four if needed. I tried the full four Mutavault and they came up way too much. I surprisingly only have two Lightning Strike, so I kept four Tymaret in the deck. I've come to realize that the Murder King is like Purphoros, he really only needs to be a three of. Sideboard is very temporary. I'm starting to wonder if 24 land is too much for this deck, average cmc for everything is 2.25, perhaps dropping a swamp for a Shock? YeehawMcKickass fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Oct 3, 2013 |
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Oct 3, 2013 04:04
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Yeah, I took LOOK AT THE BONES out of my Murder Goats variants right away. I'm guessing the provincial had a lot of u/w, u/b, and esper control? I 1-3'd my FNM with the variant I put up, but five of the six game losses on the night were from flooding out. I had one game where I managed to see half the deck (with some trading post acceleration) and just never ran into a win condition. I sure had plenty of land to do things with. Also played a few matches against some people after the FNM and face rolled them. Everyone at my LGS thinks the deck is incredible, hilarious, and extremely difficult to play against. I have the deck mostly built on MODO already, probably gonna want to playtest it there soon. Edit, I may move back towards Mezzanon's list for next week. YeehawMcKickass fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Oct 7, 2013 |
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Oct 7, 2013 06:36
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I'm tooling with murdergoats on MODO right now and ran into a lurker who's seen all the work on the deck. It took him a while to realize that I was from here, but once I said I ran the deckbuilding thread he said he hopes the deck takes off. Edit: Doesn't help that I was off black for almost the entire game. My online build is missing Magma Jet because I can't find any of them. YeehawMcKickass fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 05:45
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I think you were at 38 or 40 by the time I finally got to do things. I was streaming my play session so I have a recording of all the games from tonight. Not long before I played you, I had someone just raging on me hilariously. Was muttering some stuff about, "anyone can build that deck" while he was running like 65 cards. I think I responded something along the lines of, "anyone can build any deck anytime," or some poo poo like that. He rage quit when I Slaughter Gamesed him two turns in a row.
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Oct 8, 2013 06:04
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bhsman posted:Would you mind linking to your Twitch(?) account? I'd love to see how the deck runs on MODO. RiceBurrito posted:It was one of my first games trying out a heroic based deck so I'm pretty sure I piloted it like crap. I was actually hoping for one of my Phalanx Leaders to be drawn and buff the crap out of the creatures. I don't have enough time to edit this into component games right now, but here's a nice three hour chunk of murdergoating. RiceBurrito is the last match, the guy who tried to rag on me horribly for playing it is about a half hour before him. Edit: Match with the guy who was berating me then conceded starts at 1:55. Guy's modo name is Saltwater Master. He certianly was salty. YeehawMcKickass fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 18:34
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Yeah, modo default sounds suck. I didn't realize I had them up that high initially. Thoughtseize/Duress are probably the best option against Unflinching courage/Fiendslayer Paladin right now. Oldsrocket_27 posted:He fixes the MODO sounds after a little while. In the end though, I quit watching after realizing that I was just tabbing out to something else, and forgetting it was on at all. The constant little things like land sequencing mistakes and not attacking when he could either push free damage or spend a burn spell after first strike damage if opponent blocks just got to me too much. That and the constant snap concessions. Yeah, I wasn't playing optimally nor was I planning on playing optimally last night. Most of the land sequencing stuff you're complaining about is stuff I realized right after I did it. Which snap concessions are you referring to? If you're talking about the Fiendslayer + Unflinching Courage game I quit out on, it's because the deck has no realisitc outs to that (double Rakdos Keyrun or active Purphoros). I have no way of getting rid of the enchantment and I can't target the Paladin with removal. YeehawMcKickass fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Oct 8, 2013 |
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Oct 8, 2013 21:17
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jassi007 posted:To anyone fiddling with murder goats, do you need 4 purphoros or is 3 good? Also ditto with trading post. Same as Promoted Pawn, I've found that 3 Purphoros/3 post plays perfectly fine, I'm running 4/4 online for the next few days, but in paper I've actually been at 3/2. It probably helps that Purphoros is going for 6 tix online but $20 in paper. I was initially considering going down to 3 Tymaret but I think I'm staying at four for the future since he's useful in the graveyard too.
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Oct 9, 2013 05:08
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The big upside to Frostburn weird is that if you have to attack with it he can do up to four damage. Going against mono red with the guy has a good chance to force them to 2-for-1 themselves just to get it out of the way. The deck still sucks against Trample. C-Euro: Correct. The triggers and sacrificing are the primary win condition, attacking for lethal is secondary. Edit: My experience has been that I've had RR available on turn two more often than 1b. My manabase is a bit different though.
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Oct 9, 2013 21:09
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I don't exaclty like ETBT lands in the deck, but UB Temples might be a good idea for the scry.
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Oct 9, 2013 22:53
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If you're going to put another boom satyr in, I'd pull an advent. Looks pretty good though.
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Oct 10, 2013 01:45
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Before I post this list, I want to thank everyone on the EDH chat for linking their decks. It really does make the thread that much easier to read. Now, on to MURDERGOATS! (The best name.) Now that mono blue aggro is a thing, I'm looking at ways to shore up the matchup against it. I don't know specifically how much of this I'm going to run into at FNM, but here's another variant for consideration: Deck: MURDER GOATS! v2.5 //Land 4 Blood Crypt 2 Rakdos Guildgate 11 Mountain 3 Swamp 3 Mutavault //Creatures 4 Tymaret, the Murder King 4 Young Pyromancer //Spells 3 Purphoros, God of the Forge 3 Dreadbore 4 Shock 4 Molten Birth 2 Rakdos's Return 3 Lightning Strike 3 Rakdos Keyrune 3 Trading Post 4 Doom Blade //Sideboard 1 Lightning Strike 3 Ultimate Price 3 Rakdos Charm 4 Slaughter Games 3 Electrickery 1 Rakdos Keyrune Display deck statisticsLands: Man, I wish we had the Rakdos Scrylands, I may swap one of the gates out for a basic before FNM tomorrow. Creatures: As much as Tymaret could be dropped to a three of, it needs to stay at four because one needs to be drawn. Pyromancer is a duh. Spells: The first four spells in the list have all earned their spots and numbers. Three is absolutely correct on Purphoros and Dreadbore, Shock is great mana efficiency, and Molten Birth has been great even on coin flip loss. I'm expecting my meta to skew a bit closer to the mono blue devotion decks, so Doom Blade got the nod over Magma Jet for handling Master of Waves, not to mention that it can takes down everything that causes this deck problems short of Fiendslayer Paladin. Magma Jet's scry is awesome but the card ends up being awkward against a lot of popular stuff. If I'm going to use a two mana damage spell, I might as well get the maximum damage for my mana. Keyrune is an all star in the deck and I even made room for the fourth in the 75. Rakdos' Return is probably what I'm most torn on. It gets online too late to be helpful in the midrange and aggro matchups, and control decks already have a bitch of a time against this. Problem is I have no clue what I could swap in for it, and it is fun to clear someone's hand. And that's what the deck is about, doing weird fun things. Doom Blade may need to be a 3/1 split with ultimate price, thoughts? Sideboard: Lightning Strike and Keyrune are there to be the fourth copies in the 75, Keyrune is good all around and Lightning strike comes in when Doom Blade needs to go out. Electrickery is to gently caress with weenie rush strategies. Ultimate price for monocolor decks, and four Slaughter games is just because I like to make control players lives miserable. Rakdos Charm...I mentioned this in the main thread, but it bears mentioning again: Mono Blue Devotion makes a lot of creatures really fast and will sometimes opt to take a good chunk of damage in the first couple turns. Rakdos Charm can and will do excessive amounts of damage to a player that overextends. Instead of resetting the opponent board, it slaps them upside the head. Two Charms in hand has the potential to IMMEDIATELY end the game against Master of Waves or weenie rush style decks. I haven't gotten to test the deck against anything lately, but everyone I've played against with this thing has said straight out that it's not easy to play against. I totally get that this isn't a Top Tier deck, but drat is it fun to win by having a zombie throw a goat a your opponent... or just watch them try to figure out what the gently caress is going on. Just imagine if we had some crazy death triggers.
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Oct 18, 2013 04:59
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I think the consensus decision on guttersnipe was that it was even more vulnerable than post and did less. I've had games where I've used all four modes of post. I may give it a shot on modo at some point, but Post can grind the game to a halt.
YeehawMcKickass fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 18:37
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MURDERGOATS 2.5 FNM report, 3-0-1, 2nd place. Lots of luck. I did make a change in the 75, moving Rakdos' Return to the side and filling out the four Keyrunes and Strikes. Also went 3 doom blade / 1 ultimate price main. The Return change ended up being a pretty good call. The doom blade/price shift ended up not mattering because I never ran against anyone running black and always seemed to have the price in hand against multi color creatures. R1, G/W, Tie (1-1-1): Game one he's mana screwed and I just run him owver, Game two I can't draw anything that isn't a land or a Keyrune (while he has Trostani on board), Game three starts with four minutes left and we can't get anything done in the five turn extension. In the first and second game, I managed to kill the hell out of anything with trample. R2, U/W Flyers, Win (2-0): I really can't count this as a win since it was a kid playing who just kinda put a deck together. He had a better game two where he managed to delay me a few turns, but Mutavault with Tymaret just wore him down. R3, Boros, Win (2-1): Got on a roll game one, Trading Post slowed game two down to a crawl but he pulled it off with his own Purph, Game three started with six minutes left on the clock, and I managed to take it down with Rakdos Charm on turn four of extension. R4, G/W, Win (2-0): Likely a better version of the deck I ran into round one, super similar game one where he got mana screwed and Mutavault did most of the work. Game two ended up being interesting. We both actually got set up to something like him having a Caryatid, Voice, Loxdon Smiter, and an Ajani while I was on something along the lines of Tymaret, Purphoros, two Keyrunes, and four elemental tokens. He's at 20 while I'm at 16. He +1's ajani to add a counter to the smiter and passes turn. I have Lightning Strike and Rakdos' Return in hand with enough mana to cast the return for three and a lighting strike. I Return for three, redirect the damage and force him to drop a 2/2 token off of Selesnya charm, then lightning strike to finish off Ajani. Next turn he plays Reckoner and passes. I draw shock, cast molten birth and win the flip to drop him to 14 and pass the turn with seven mana open, THE MURDER KING, purph, and six elemental tokens. His next turn sees him attack with voice, smiter, and recokner. I declare three elementals as blockers then sacrifice them to THE MURDER KING for six more damage, and shock him at the end of turn to drop him to six. Next turn I just sac the other three elementals to end the game. Fourteen damage over one turn to finish it. The two 3-0's at that point in the event decided not to ID in the last round, and I ended up sneaking into second. Scarier part was that third place was Minotaur tribal. My prize packs had some okay stuff, biggest being Ashiok. This obviously involved some luck with people having to mulligan, but the deck went well tonight, and everyone at the LGS knows that they're in for a slog when they play against it.
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Oct 19, 2013 06:35
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Man_alive posted:I have a question about the general card listing: Hero's Downfall, while instant speed, also costs 3 with two of it being black. In a lot of game you spend a huge chunk of time on a single black. The planeswalker is going to get its activation anyway, might as well go sorcery speed. The deck is incredibly mana hungry, the difference between two and three in it is more akin to the difference between six and seven in any other deck. I'm also experimenting with splashing out to Jund to include Sylvan Caraytid and elvish mystic. Initial testing shows that it's way more explosive, but horribly inconsistent.
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Oct 19, 2013 20:56
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always be closing posted:Have you tried any white splashes? the assemble the legion, and maybe reckoner to turn on the purphoros?b I tired a white splash last week to try to get something to shore up the Fiendslayer Paladin/enchantment problem. It worked ok, but was a lot of stress on the mana base. Legion isn't a horrible idea, but Reckoner activating purphoros isn't what the deck wants. Edit: I'll see about trying Legion on modo next time I'm on there. YeehawMcKickass fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Oct 19, 2013 |
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Oct 19, 2013 23:46
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Mana hunger, you want all of your lands. You on modo?
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Oct 20, 2013 01:02
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LLJKYeehawMcK I might be able to get on tonight, but it probably won't be for another half hour or so.
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Oct 20, 2013 02:20
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Eleeleth posted:To continue MURDERGOATS! chat, I don't have any Rakdos's Returns, and while they're in the mail, I've been wondering how you guys feel about running Stormbreath Dragons in their place. Seems like it's minimally worse, but I'm hardly what I'd consider good at brewing. I moved both Returns to the side in favor of the fourth copies of lightning strike and rakdos keyrune. Running Stormbreath in place is a fine idea. Mutavault is a completely optional card, I run it in paper to be able to apply early game one pressure to the control decks in my FNM meta/mana sink when I have nothing else. The variant I have on Modo doesn't run any.
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Oct 21, 2013 18:51
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I have a confession to make. I went from Bant Hexproof last season to this. I'm constantly loving up decisions because I spent so long playing an autopilot deck. I don't even understand how I placed at a small FNM last week, much less had no match losses. I'm having fun doing odd things to people. Other MURDERGOATERS, what's been the reaction of the people you've played against?
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Oct 22, 2013 05:17
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bhsman posted:MURDERGOATS.dec users: back on MTGSalvation where I found the original decklist, some user has posted a version that utilizes Pack Rat, and I think it's a great idea. Read the bones is probably the worst card in the 75 from glancing at it. I can see what he's going for with this, but it's not efficient enough. I'll try to cook something up along these lines when I get home. Edit: MURDERPOST isn't a bad name either. YeehawMcKickass fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 00:49
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End of Life Guy posted:I've had a poo poo week at work so far. I decided November's extra paycheck could alleviate some of this and I just ordered MURDERGOATS!.dec from tcgplayer. Quick and dirty: Swing for the fences when you're free and clear. Don't be afraid to go to the dome with burn. Sac in response to removal, to position yourself for a win, or to outright win. Keep hands with three lands and creatures, removal, or a mix of those. Basically if you have a turn one or two play you'll be ok more often than not. If you get an opening had along the lines of gate/basic/basic/purph/post/keyune/molten birth, mull it. For six, you just want three lands and a 2 cmc card. As for adding Pack Rats, I've been mucking with the numbers for it on deckstats. My paper builds are a bit tight and kinda greedy so it became an issue of looking at what works best where. I already moved Rakdos's Return to my board, so scaled back on doom blade, keyrune, and molten birth to cram three in. I actually CAN'T do this on paper right now, so I'll have to stay with deckstats or try it online at some point. I JUST started screwing with this and it's likely to change a few times over the next hour or so: http://deckstats.net/decks/107/35329-murder-goats-v2-5 edit: ohey I have no tickets online and pack rats went up to over 1 tix. go figure. YeehawMcKickass fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 04:40
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Don't worry too much about the Mutavaults, the deck plays fine without them.
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Oct 23, 2013 06:19
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Should I just ask Winson to change the name of the thread to MtG: The Murderhaus? Joking, of course.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:11
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Basics. Swamps essentially. I want to build another deck aside from MURDERGOATS, my meta is fully prepared for it as evidenced by my 1-1-1 showing tonight (the win is a bye).
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Oct 26, 2013 02:18
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I'm not breaking MURDERGOATS apart. Several people at my FNM want to actually play it to try to understand just what the hell is going on with the opposite end.
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Oct 26, 2013 03:56
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Murdergoats is pretty much a goon thing at this point. I've been playing it pretty consistently since rotation and I STILL couldn't give you a primer on it. Every game plays differently and there's an incredible amout of options at your disposal at all times. It's really fun to play and awkward for the person you're playing against, but by no means top tier.
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Oct 26, 2013 17:47
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Elephant Ambush posted:Then again, it's 2 mana vs. 1 for Shock, and all my testing has shown that Magma Jet sits in my hand most of the time while Shock gets used often because I'm able to cast it more often and I don't need the scrying often. This is the exact same thing that happened with MURDERGOATS. If you want a two mana direct damage spell, just play lightning strike. Magma jet is best for control shells splashing red.
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Oct 30, 2013 23:12
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AlternateNu posted:I want to ask how crucial you think shock is to MURDERGOATS! anyway as compared to other possible 1cmc spells. Did it save you or win you games that wouldn't otherwise have been winnable with something like Thoughtseize? MURDERGOATS! is more of a control style deck, anyway. My experience with thoughtseize was that the early life loss ended up being extremely relevant. Super small sample size though.
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Oct 31, 2013 01:38
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BigRed0427 posted:At what point does posting the same deck list i'm working on here becomes annoying? Try to have only one active list per page. If you post a new list, try to remember to go back and edit your older posts down to just a link.
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Nov 2, 2013 06:25
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Man_alive posted:I had today off work, and the final pieces of my MURDERGOATS v2.5 build arrived. I always thought it was going to be fun to play, but didn't realise EXACTLY how fun it was going to be until I sat down with the finished deck and fishbowled myself. I can see this working well around these parts. It's incredibly fun. I might actually let some of my play group play it at FNM.
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Nov 5, 2013 22:14
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MURDERGOATS report: 2-2. I probably could have won more games at least but I've been fighting a sinus thing/cold for the last few days and it made thinking clearly difficult. Losses to G/W aggro and Mono B devotion, wins against new guy and Mono B devotion (with a Rakdos Charm win to finish it). I'm going to try to brew up another goofy/fun deck to play in a couple weeks, but I'm NOT abandoning MURDERGOATS. This deck is way too fun to take apart. I'm thinking I might try something U/G (maybe a third color) with Unexpected Results shennanigans. Or something, not sure yet.
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Nov 9, 2013 20:02
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kizudarake posted:I tried running MURDERGOATS! 2.5! with only three Purphori in it, and just never saw one in 8 total games. I know my shuffling's not great, but I really think it needs 4. Also, TCG has near mint ones showing for 8 bucks, so you might try running a fourth in there, even if you just proxy it a while, just for testing. You can run four and never see one in a game. You can run three and have all of them in your opening hand. Hell, at FNM I ended up with one Tymaret in play and three in hand by turn five. I've got four Purph in deck in the deck on Modo and I draw them WAY too often.
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Nov 10, 2013 18:28
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Hobojim posted:So I've been playing a MURDERGOATS deck on MTGO using two Rakdos' Returns and have been having a blast with it, so I decided to make a variant in real life for FNM this week. The Returns have been pretty unspectacular online, so I dropped them and went for a more burn-heavy approach with four shocks and some lightning strikes. It's worth trying out. I'd cut a frostburn over shock or molten birth.
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Nov 16, 2013 20:26
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