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I'm not thrilled with it because it's such shameless fanservice. Now sure, OUAT is basically professionally-produced fanfiction as it is, so at least for the moment it's just a minor nitpick if the writers don't make a habit of it.
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Oct 14, 2013 23:05
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Well I hope we've moved past Regina throwing tantrums and behaving like she has a monopoly on caring about "MY SON!!" because that is hella annoying. I love the ways they find to make the characters interconnect with each other, this show would produce one hell of a flowchart.
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Oct 14, 2013 23:20
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I'm liking the Neverland setting and I'm eager to see what Peter Pan has in store. Other than that I mostly watch just to see how Regina looks in whatever gorgeous new outfit they have her in. Most consistently well dressed and beautiful character (and actress) on TV IMO.
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Oct 14, 2013 23:27
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Captain von Trapp posted:I'm not thrilled with it because it's such shameless fanservice. Now sure, OUAT is basically professionally-produced fanfiction as it is, so at least for the moment it's just a minor nitpick if the writers don't make a habit of it. How in the world is it shameless fanservice? They've changed so much about the original fairytales, but changing someone's sexuality is fanservice? Best not make a habit of queer representation, that's just tacky 
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Oct 14, 2013 23:36
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Troposphere posted:How in the world is it shameless fanservice? They've changed so much about the original fairytales, but changing someone's sexuality is fanservice? Best not make a habit of queer representation, that's just tacky I was kind of disappointed because I wanted her to meet Li Shang... I guess she still can. She was pretty obviously into Philip before they ever even woke up Aurora so I guess she's bi?
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Oct 15, 2013 01:06
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Troposphere posted:How in the world is it shameless fanservice? They've changed so much about the original fairytales, but changing someone's sexuality is fanservice? Best not make a habit of queer representation, that's just tacky Yeah between this and the 'crossdresser!' I'm not getting the hate? Hell, my 56 year old roman-catholic mother called Mulan having a crush on Aurora four weeks ago. It makes perfect sense within the story- Mulan and Aurora had more time onscreen to establish their relationship than Phillip/Aurora did. We were told Phillip and Aurora were in love but we were shown Mulan and Aurora's relationship grow and how close and downright inseparable they became. Seriously, in this show of hyper saccharine lovey dovey stuff, in this show where the son of a big bad fell through dimensions and just happened to stumble across the long lost princess from the same dimension he came from and just so happened to ~fall in love~ with her and just so happened to create the most dense child on earth with her, it's Mulan and Aurora that strikes people as absurd? Baelfire and Emma are just the first example that came to mind but this show is riddled with far, far, far more convoluted romances. Mulan having a crush on Aurora seems a shitton more normal than a lot of other relationships in OUAT.
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Oct 15, 2013 01:10
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ashez2ashes posted:She was pretty obviously into Philip before they ever even woke up Aurora That's what I thought.
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Oct 15, 2013 01:10
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Troposphere posted:How in the world is it shameless fanservice? They've changed so much about the original fairytales, but changing someone's sexuality is fanservice? Best not make a habit of queer representation, that's just tacky It's pretty much the dictionary definition of fanservice. The issue is not that it involves changing someone's sexuality, the issue is that it involves changing someone's sexuality for the benefit of a fan community that literally had a nickname (Sleeping Warrior(!)) for the pairing. Again, not a problem in and of itself, but not something I hope they make a habit of.
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Oct 15, 2013 01:21
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BarbarousBertha posted:There are two things I find disappointing about Mulan being the lesbian character. One is that they chose a cross-dressing character, just because lesbian doesn't have to mean masculine and sparkly princesses can be gay, too, dammit. This was my issue with it too. I was a tomboy growing up and often had my sexuality questioned because I did "boy" things. Not all straight girls play dress up and not all lesbians run around outside getting dirty and fighting in the Emperors army. I just wish they'd played away from the stereotype. Like I said, just personal issues from childhood creeping in.
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Oct 15, 2013 01:34
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Captain von Trapp posted:It's pretty much the dictionary definition of fanservice. The issue is not that it involves changing someone's sexuality, the issue is that it involves changing someone's sexuality for the benefit of a fan community that literally had a nickname (Sleeping Warrior(!)) for the pairing. Fans of this show have a nickname for literally every romantic pairing on it (let's see, there's Swan Queen, Captain Swan, Hooked Queen, Snowing, Rumbelle, Red Cricket, Golden Lace, Wooden Swan, etc etc I could go on all day), I really don't understand why this is something to complain about. You could say the same thing about every single couple on the show (especially for Rumplestiltskin and Belle, considering Belle wasn't even going to return until a huge fanbase popped up for them) , but for some reason this is the only one rubbing people the wrong way. I don't get it. Also, since Mulan is a legend, it's kind of pointless to say that she has a set sexuality to begin with. The writers obviously don't give a gently caress about following the original fairytales closely, it's strange to see fans of the show speak out against such a minor thing. It just seems homophobic.
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Oct 15, 2013 02:03
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Let's not kid ourselves, the beautiful lesbian warrior trope is practically de rigeur in fantasy TV. It hasn't exactly been a bold statement since at least the Xena era. It just strikes me as lazy pandering. But this is just my personal sense of aesthetics and I don't claim it's objectively correct or anything. Now something like a gay male character of average looks (say, one of the dwarves), that would've been an interesting and novel choice.
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Oct 15, 2013 02:26
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Captain von Trapp posted:The issue is not that it involves changing someone's sexuality, the issue is that it involves changing someone's sexuality for the benefit of a fan community that literally had a nickname (Sleeping Warrior(!)) for the pairing. When did they change her sexuality? So she was in love with a man, then she fell in love with a woman. Where's the problem? It happens all the time outside of fandom. Also, when in this show is Mulan crossdressing beyond when we first meet her? She's in armour, is she supposed to be wearing a Xena style miniskirt and breastplates for armour to not count as cross dressing? quote:I was a tomboy growing up and often had my sexuality questioned because I did "boy" things. This has happened, and forever will happen, to every little girl who does "little boy things" everywhere around the globe. And little girls that do "little girl" things are called anywhere from lesbians to babyish. And I'm sure boys have their own bag of gender specific playground issues. Kids suck and are not smart, they will find any reason to give each other poo poo. Most people are able to grow up and watch a glorified soap opera of a tv show without being triggered about how a character's outfit/sexuality combo reminds them of that one time they wore combat boots to prom and all the mean kids made fun of them. This has to be the weirdest thread in TV/IV, goddamn.
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Oct 15, 2013 02:29
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Troposphere posted:Fans of this show have a nickname for literally every romantic pairing on it (let's see, there's Swan Queen, Captain Swan, Hooked Queen, Snowing, Rumbelle, Red Cricket, Golden Lace, Wooden Swan, etc etc I could go on all day), I really don't understand why this is something to complain about. You could say the same thing about every single couple on the show (especially for Rumplestiltskin and Belle, considering Belle wasn't even going to return until a huge fanbase popped up for them) , but for some reason this is the only one rubbing people the wrong way. I don't get it. No one, in this thread anyway, cares that they made a character gay. It's just that they picked what seems like the cliche path with the 'warrior woman' character. Even in that I'm not seeing anyone care that much past commenting on it. LEFTENANT RIGHTIE posted:Most people are able to grow up and watch a glorified soap opera of a tv show without being triggered about how a character's outfit/sexuality combo reminds them of that one time they wore combat boots to prom and all the mean kids made fun of them. You're right, I should totally get on medication and enter therapy stat. Making a comment on something isn't being 'triggered', it's rolling my eyes for all of 5 seconds that a TV show fed into a stereotype. KilGrey fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Oct 15, 2013 |
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Oct 15, 2013 02:30
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KilGrey posted:Making a comment on something isn't being 'triggered', it's rolling my eyes for all of 5 seconds that a TV show fed into a stereotype. Yeah you're the one who couldn't make a single post about a fictional character's fictional sexuality without relating it to your 'childhood gender/sexuality issues.' Which might even be a real problem for some people who struggled with their sexuality and need an outlet, women falling in love with women or women falling in love with a female friend in fantasy or fairy tale settings are incredibly rare even moreso in a heroic setting, but apparently it bothers you because you did ~boy things~ and some people were ~mean~. quote:You're right, I should totally get on medication and enter therapy stat. Couldn't hurt? 
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Oct 15, 2013 02:43
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LEFTENANT RIGHTIE posted:Yeah you're the one who couldn't make a single post about a fictional character's fictional sexuality without relating it to your 'childhood gender/sexuality issues.' Which might even be a real problem for some people who struggled with their sexuality and need an outlet, women falling in love with women or women falling in love with a female friend in fantasy or fairy tale settings are incredibly rare even moreso in a heroic setting, but apparently it bothers you because you did ~boy things~ and some people were ~mean~. Holy gently caress are you making a gigantic deal out of this. I'm done with this conversation.
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Oct 15, 2013 03:07
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Lost in all of this love talk is a more important piece of character development: This is the first time Henry tried to kill someone in cold blood. 
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Oct 15, 2013 05:32
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nelson posted:Lost in all of this love talk is a more important piece of character development: Is part of the truest believer's job description to assassinate Pan because Pan doesn't seem to mind.
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Oct 15, 2013 05:50
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Kraps posted:Is part of the truest believer's job description to assassinate Pan because Pan doesn't seem to mind. Yeah also I saw on mythbusters that no one can catch an arrow shot at them even from like 20 feet away so the show is bullshit and I'm done with it see ya nerds later  e: because I'm the OP and have something like responsibility or something I'm declaring this thread to be a Good Vibes Zone, we can seriouspost and all that in here but let's try to remember that the whole premise of this show is kids playing with a chest of Disney toys in a sandbox, so arguments of "nuh uh you're not playing it right!" are just as annoying as they were when you were 6. Barehanded Brother fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Oct 15, 2013 |
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Oct 15, 2013 14:55
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Kinda bummed that there was no Rumplestilskin this episode. The new hybrid in Neverland seems pretty cool, and the shadow thing seemed interesting, and then he just wasn't loving there this week. :-/
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Oct 16, 2013 10:56
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I think there was a lot of demand for a queerly represented character on the show and Adam Horowitz and Eddie Kitsis were bugged about it at cons and Twitter all the time, so as one may predict, people are claiming Sleeping Warrior became canon for the sake of shutting them up. I think that's a somewhat large complaint in the community where the biggest fan pairing besides Rumbelle(?) is Swan Queen. It's whatever tho, this show is a crazy, stupid rollercoaster and I love it a lot. The group won't be out of Neverland until ep 11.
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Oct 19, 2013 06:32
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And once again, the Knave continues to be my favorite character in the Wonderland series. Here's hoping he gets a backstory episode soon. Also, now 2 fairies from Peter Pan/Disney's Fairies series have shown up - Tinkerbell in Neverland, Silvermist in Wonderland. I wonder if they'll ever show Rosetta, Iridessa, Fawn, Vidia, or Terrence at some point. God, I know way too much about that series
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Oct 19, 2013 07:41
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The Knave is my favorite, too - his backstory will be told next ep.
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Oct 19, 2013 17:31
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Was Thor's hammer the first visual "Marvel" nod? It was in the cabinet when they were looking for something to create a portal from the Magical Forest to Neverland at the beginning of the show.
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Oct 19, 2013 21:18
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Bae is such a dick to his father. We get it, Rumple's a cold hearted psycho; but Bae is so obsessed with hating his dad for that fact that he can't see his many attempts at changing his ways. It's like he constantly berates him for being evil but whenever Rumple tries being not evil, he goes "NOPE! Sorry! You're too bad to change!" Also, Peter Pan's a cool villain and all but the actor is sort of overdoing it. Maybe he's just really young though and I'm being too harsh. e: Another nitpick, this one about Wonderland: it almost seems a bit too... orderly? In Lewis Carrol's Wonderland, nothing made logical sense. It was all crazy and topsy-turvey and defied the laws of physics. Things made no sense, there were bizarre sights and people and locations which defied all logic- hell, the place is basically the fantasy version of an acid trip. But this Wonderland seems to be a lush forest with a few weird creatures and a hedge maze. Not very Wonderland-like to me. Captain Mog fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Oct 21, 2013 01:47
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Captain Mog posted:Bae is such a dick to his father. We get it, Rumple's a cold hearted psycho; but Bae is so obsessed with hating his dad for that fact that he can't see his many attempts at changing his ways. It's like he constantly berates him for being evil but whenever Rumple tries being not evil, he goes "NOPE! Sorry! You're too bad to change!" Sure, you're not wrong... but I go into this show expecting everything to be "overdoing it" so it doesn't really bother me. At the least, I loved how he got the upper hand on Rumpel in the flashback almost without using any magic at all. They're doing a great job building him up as a credible threat, and I'm glad they're doing it without just saying his magic is stronger than everyone else's or something.
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Oct 21, 2013 03:04
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I don't understand why, in a world of magic  , anyone would believe anyone else is dead without seeing their corpse. I like the story though. Plus, oh my gosh, did you see the preview for next week?! I feel like a giddy school girl (and I'm a grown man).
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Oct 21, 2013 04:19
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So...does anyone else see a slight problem with the chronology? Baelfire: In enchanted forest, meets Peter Pan (who doesn't have any lost boys yet, apparently), goes back to being Dark One's son, sent to real world, gets taken by shadow to Neverland, eventually meets Lost Boys and Peter Pan. Wait what? Or are we supposed to assume there's enough time in there for people to forget, gather Lost Boys, etc? This Charming damsel in distress "no don't tell anyone because there's nothing we can do" is starting to get annoying as well. On the upside, I did like the fact that Henry couldn't hear the music from the flute, but after being saved then unsaved, and getting a stern talking to from Pan, is able to hear it. That was clever. Wonderland side of things, Knave has only been an annoying git so far in my opinion. No offense intended for the people that like him, but he's unable to be decisive...about anything.
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Oct 21, 2013 16:45
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So why did Neal have to kill a CGI squid?
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Oct 21, 2013 16:51
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Merlinicus posted:So...does anyone else see a slight problem with the chronology? Baelfire knew nothing of the shadow from his brief time with Pan and all we saw of him outside of Hooks Ship in Neverland before was him being hauled off by the Lost Boys, none of whose faces he would have recognized because they were all wearing masks while he was with them before. I don't think anything we saw before really contradicts what we saw last night. Chamberk posted:So why did Neal have to kill a CGI squid? They used its ink to make an anti-magicfolk paralytic that froze Pan...and later Rumpel...so he could rescue Henry. VBane fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Oct 21, 2013 |
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Oct 21, 2013 17:15
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Chamberk posted:So why did Neal have to kill a CGI squid?
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Oct 21, 2013 17:17
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VBane posted:Baelfire knew nothing of the shadow from his brief time with Pan and all we saw of him outside of Hooks Ship in Neverland before was him being hauled off by the Lost Boys, none of whose faces he would have recognized because they were all wearing masks while he was with them before. There's no direct contradiction. However it still seems a bit...questionable. Nothing major, I suppose, but it seemed a bit odd to have the previous Neverland intro, then suddenly we see Peter Pan was actually involved way earlier. Also, where's all the evidence that Pan is so powerful? He hasn't really done anything yet, but everyone is all scared of him, even the Dark One.
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Oct 21, 2013 17:33
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Merlinicus posted:There's no direct contradiction. However it still seems a bit...questionable. Nothing major, I suppose, but it seemed a bit odd to have the previous Neverland intro, then suddenly we see Peter Pan was actually involved way earlier. I don't get it, what's questionable about it? What made you think the Darling incident was the first time Baelfire encountered Pan? Merlinicus posted:Also, where's all the evidence that Pan is so powerful? He hasn't really done anything yet, but everyone is all scared of him, even the Dark One. Raw physical power isn't the only reason to be scared of someone. Did you not see how Pan completely beat Rumpel in the flashback? He barely used any magic at all. Pan may or may not have great magic prowess but that's not what makes him scary.
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Oct 21, 2013 20:38
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cycowolf posted:Ok so I am almost caught up. Went on a binge. I have to say the worst character on this show is young snow white. Feel a little weird about how much I want to punch a kid. Dear lord yes. I thought I was the only person who felt like that. There is just something about her that just makes you which a character would punch her lights out just to shut her up.
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Oct 22, 2013 02:54
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I made the mistake of opening the Couch Chat thread as I put on OUAT this afternoon and then got distracted by this morning's TVIV revelations. Everything was super confusing by the time I tried to focus back in on the show. Guess I'll have to read a recap. Still enjoying Wonderland though. I really like the Red Queen although I wonder where she fits in with Cora's storyline. Did she get deposed by Cora? Did she take over after Cora left?
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Oct 22, 2013 03:00
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Tupping Liberty posted:I made the mistake of opening the Couch Chat thread as I put on OUAT this afternoon and then got distracted by this morning's TVIV revelations. Everything was super confusing by the time I tried to focus back in on the show. Guess I'll have to read a recap. Neither. The Queen of Hearts (Cora) is from Alice in Wonderland. She wasn't really an antagonist but an obstacle, with a horrible temper and belief everything can be solved by ordering a beheading (but the King actually pardoned most every person she ordered executed so almost no one actually died because of her) The Red Queen (Wonderland) is from Alice Through the Looking Glass, which had a Chess Theme. She was cold and calm and pedantic, Alice's opposition as she tried to move across the "chessboard" of Wonderland and get promoted from Pawn to Queen. Most modern adaptations smush to the two together. The Disney movie, the Burton movie, The McGee games. Even Jefferson Airplane. The Red Queen is in fact not "off with her head"
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Oct 22, 2013 03:28
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VBane posted:Neither. Awesome, thanks!
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Oct 22, 2013 03:44
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If you want bonus entertainment, check out Adam Horowitz's twitter account sometime. The insane tweets he gets from fans of the show demanding he kowtow to their preferred ship aren't even as hilarious as the fact that he engages with them and seems to get personally offended by a lot of it. But he keeps doing it. Don't care about the Hook and Emma kiss next week which is obviously fanservice and will probably not be what it seems, but I am VERY excited for Young Hook and his terrible wig!
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Oct 22, 2013 05:34
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Lady Frenzy posted:If you want bonus entertainment, check out Adam Horowitz's twitter account sometime. The insane tweets he gets from fans of the show demanding he kowtow to their preferred ship aren't even as hilarious as the fact that he engages with them and seems to get personally offended by a lot of it. But he keeps doing it. I hope that is just her loving with Neal
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Oct 22, 2013 05:36
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XboxPants posted:I don't get it, what's questionable about it? What made you think the Darling incident was the first time Baelfire encountered Pan? The entire encounter was colored by "magic is bad because my dad is the dark one and turned evil after he became powerful." Nothing about any context of knowing what's going on in the specific situation, no recognition of Pan when the girl comes back and explains what was happening, etc. I guess I expected some recognition of the Peter Pan business if they had met before. That said, if the only previous meeting was "some guy with a flute" and Bael didn't have any context for the full scope of the "Peter Pan story," for lack of a better term, there aren't any actual contradictions. It's just one of the few times during Once Upon a Time that I've been taken aback by something (even if it wasn't for a good reason, after all).
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Oct 22, 2013 17:48
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Finally caught up, this past episode (as most episodes focusing on Rumple are) was awesome. Neal really does seem to be on his home turf now though; it's the first time he really felt like a dynamic character rather than a pawn character. The actor really stood up well to Robert Carlyle too, which was I think what Pan's actor tries a bit too hard to do. Though making a truly menacing villain out of that boyish face is a pretty uphill battle, especially when going up against the 3-season-long establishment of the Dark One. Not enough Catty Regina quips though. They're so cheesy but I just love Lana Parrilla's delivery.
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Oct 22, 2013 18:53
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