|
Cardiovorax posted:Plus the demon was able to haul the Deacon off to God knows where, which indicates that there has to be somewhere to go besides the light. Well we know there's a place to be, but perhaps the afterlife (or wherever it is ghosts go) is what you make of it. So the Deacon is in Rosa's mindscape...he's basically at the threshold of moving on, this is the point of no return. If he can't come to terms with his issues then maybe they somehow wind up "manifesting" in the form of his own personal demon (which seems appropriate for a fallen Deacon, right? The imagery is appropriate for him more than Rosa) which leads to him moving on the way he subconsciously feels he deserves...by being dragged to hell. But if Rosa is able to help him come to terms with his issues then by assuaging his inner demons is also does the same for the projected demon which buggers off and allows him to make a peaceful journey instead. Essentially, maybe "hell" in this case is entirely a product of the spirit itself...if a ghost thinks it "deserves" to be carted off by demons, even subconsciously, then that's what happens. Rosa's nodespace just acts as a mirror for that. If the ghost's issues are resolved prior to being pulled into her head, as we saw with the college student earlier, then it's just a case of blipping off into the light, no muss no fuss.
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2013 14:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 17:42 |
|
|
I certainly prefer the concept of the demon being a projection of The Deacon's than an actual demon following him into Rosa's head. Somehow it just seems more in-tune with the series. We've seen plenty of examples of ghosts being able to create delusions that seem very real to them, and usually they relate to the strong emotional ties in their existence. A former pastor feeling like he's failed the Lord would fall very neatly into that category. And the fact that Rosa "saves" him from his sin by figuratively smashing it makes the idea very neat. He is then finally able to let himself move on and be at peace with himself. It also matches up with Rosa's dialogue about how "he was scared and I didn't know what to do" rather than "JESUS gently caress HE GOT LITERALLY BANISHED TO ETERNAL TORTURE AND THEN THE loving DEVIL TOLD ME WE WOULD MEET AGAIN". Also, if she destroys the bottle, ostensibly saving a man from eternal damnation, she relays it to Joey as "I gave him hope". Perhaps somehow she could tell what was going on? I'm not sure Gilbert ever went into detail about his intentions for the scene, but I'm going to assume that interpretation is how it was meant.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2013 14:21
|
|
|
The demon is the only delusion that we are also able to see, though. Construction Site Lady is also absolutely convinced that she's in her flat, but we can't even see a ghostly outline of that, no pun intended. Neither with the sax dude's stage. Plus, neither the demon nor the Deacon do what every other ghost has to do, in the event that you can't save him - they never go into the light, they just go "poof" and disappear. He's a very unique case, compared to every other ghost we've seen so far.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2013 14:31
|
|
|
^^^But the demon only manifests once we drag him inside Rosa's head. Once you're inside a medium's noggin who the gently caress even knows how things work? Yeah, I was also assuming that if literal demons from literal hell were actually a thing that the series would have, y'know, maybe brought that up again at some point, but judging by your reaction that isn't the case. Given that and that everything else in the games so far seems rather ambiguous concerning the true nature of the afterlife I'm gonna stick with demons being metaphorical for now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2013 14:32
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Yeah, I was also assuming that if literal demons from literal hell were actually a thing that the series would have, y'know, maybe brought that up again at some point, but judging by your reaction that isn't the case. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2013 14:36
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:I can't confirm or deny that. Well that latter part was addressed more to cmndstab. I'm not fishing for spoilers, just speculating! The more I think about the whole "metaphorical demons" angle the more sense it seems to make, at least it does to me. A medium's nodespace is apparently a reflection of their subconscious self according to cmndstab...Rosa's is all orderly while Lauren's is more freewheeling and chaotic. So if the nodespace is a place where subconscious thought shapes the surrounding reality, who's to say it doesn't cut both ways if you drag someone else inside of it? Rosa didn't really resolve the Deacon's issues before she tried getting him to cross over is the thing. She just saw that he accepted he was dead and was like "close enough," then yanked him into her head, baggage and all. I also suspect that this, or something like it, is what resulted in Laura's descent into madness. She dragged a spirit into her head that didn't cross over, it took up residence inside of her and drove her insane.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2013 14:42
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:^^^But the demon only manifests once we drag him inside Rosa's head. Once you're inside a medium's noggin who the gently caress even knows how things work? I should point out that, in general, when I'm musing about this series in the thread I'll be making a strong effort to only talk about things we've seen so far, so you shouldn't take anything I say as an indication that things won't change. However, in this case, yes, demons from hell remain the soul domain of the Deacon. Regarding Lauren's descent into madness, Joey seems to think it's because she stopped saving the ghosts and started looking after Rosa instead. Mind you, he could easily have been feeding Rosa a line to get her to cooperate... or perhaps Lauren stopped for a reason which also led to her madness? It's an interesting discussion, anyway!
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2013 15:02
|
|
|
Maybe having a child in the house caused her to give up smoking, and nicotine withdrawal drove her insane.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2013 17:34
|
|
|
Geomancing posted:Maybe having a child in the house caused her to give up smoking, and nicotine withdrawal drove her insane. Given the amount she smokes, I can completely believe that she would still be going through withdrawal symptoms after 25 years of medically-induced comas too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2013 02:50
|
|
|
Hey I remember this series! Weird. (PS Play the Blackwell series it's really good. Nice thread!)
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2013 04:07
|
|
|
Yeah it's probably notable that, though the deacon "heard" the devil or whatever chasing after him, it didn't actually MANIFEST until we were in headspace. Of course, his flask DID manifest earlier. I think, right? I'll admit, the game seems to pretty heavily imply that this isn't a normal thing. Joey didn't know what the deal was with it (or possibly didn't care, I guess that's also a potentiality), and the fact that Rosa didn't bring it up to Joey tells me that the AUTHOR doesn't want you thinking about demons and hell as a major plot element. He wants your attention on how spirits make choices, and how Rosa can succeed or fail at influencing them. Bringing up "oh yeah demons work this way, and the following ghosts see them, and whatever" would have been just too sizable a red herring. Things like that tend to derail other plots, and would have made this into a demon fighter game, rather than a ghost resolver game! Not that he can't pick it back up again later, but as it stands I think the most likely possibility, given what we know so far, is the "devil is an externalization of the deacon's guilt" hypothesis.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2013 08:19
|
|
|
Update 8 So yesterday we spoke with a Mrs. Harriet Sherman, who told us about her crazy neighbour Mavis Wilcox who refused to leave her apartment. And we have a ghost at the construction site where the apartment used to be, also claiming she won't leave. Let's see what we can do with this information.  Lauren's Theme (Alternative)  First thing's first, let's see if we can get the notepad in order. We can try to combine the two clues together, but... Lauren: It's a good bet that Mavis Wilcox is the ghost at the construction site. But I can't say for certain. The series is pretty good with this, actually. It will often allow you to notice coincidences, but won't "confirm" things that you couldn't know for certain. Now, Harriet also had an envelope with some of Mavis' stuff. Lauren opens it. Lauren: There's not much in here. Just a photograph and some letters.  One of the letters immediately jumps out at Lauren, as she sees a very familiar name down the bottom of the page. Somehow, it seems Mitchell was involved with both of tonight's cases.  Looking at the photograph, Joey recognises the "attractive in a motherly kind of way" lady immediately. Joey: That's the ghost at the construction site. Lauren: So our ghost's name is Mavis Wilcox. Joey: I'd bet the farm on it. Only now does the notepad indicate that the ghost is actually Mavis. Inside The Gate  Heading back to the construction site, Joey gets Lauren to knock again for another chat with Mavis. Mavis: Who are you? Soon enough, we get to this point. Now, after looking at the photograph we have another option.  Joey: I've come back. It's not entirely clear why Joey can say this now, but couldn't before. My guess is he saw the photo with Mavis and what looks like her son, and assumed a husband must have been around as well. Though it would have been a reasonable guess before, too. I guess we'll just go along with it for now. Mavis: John? John, is that really YOU? Joey: In the flesh. Will Mavis bite? Mavis: No. No. No. John Durkin is dead. Joey: John Durkin? Mavis: Dead. Dead. Dead. You can't be him. I guess not. Though it's odd that her husband has a different surname to her. Perhaps she never took his name? Or they got divorced. Presumably she didn't remarry, or else she would have assumed Joey was her new husband. Let's try pretending to be the other family member.  Mavis: Sam? Joey: Yep. That's me. Mavis: Sam! It's been sooo long! Look at you! Joey: Yeah. Look at me. Apparently that worked! I guess Sam must look like a stereotypical 1920s PI. Mavis: Sorry I was so rude. I almost didn't recognize you. Come on in, Sam. I'll make you dinner. Joey: Ah, no. I can only stay for a minute. I have some questions I need to ask you. Mavis: Of course, Sam. Between Lauren pretending to be Isaac's sister, and now Joey pretending to be Mavis' son, there's a whole lot of lying going on in Unbound.  Joey: How's it going? Mavis: Oh, you know me, Sam. It's tough living here on my own. But I get by. Joey: Yeah, I can see that. Listen. Mom. I need you to think very carefully. What's the last thing you remember? Every time Joey says "Mom" he just about chokes on it. It's as though he can't figure out whether to feel uncomfortable or to laugh at how ridiculous. Mavis: What do you mean? Answering the door and seeing you, of course! Joey: And before that? Mavis: Nothing. You know nobody comes here. Except the grocer, sometimes. And that... Joey: That who? Mavis: Nobody. Here we go again, the usual runaround from spirits. That "nobody" is almost certainly someone important to this case. Joey: So, mum.  Ahahahahahaha  Mavis: That's not funny, Sam. You know you're an only child. Joey: Right. Just checking. How's Dad, Mom? Mavis: Oh, Sam. You know that your father is dead. John Durkin died years ago. Joey: Ah. Right. Sorry. Again, Joey isn't sure whether to laugh each time or just feel really awkward. Meanwhile Mavis is obviously put off by "Sam's" questions, but doesn't want to risk upsetting him and making him leave, as he obviously doesn't visit often. This scene is really well done.  Time to get to the main issue here. Joey: Are you SURE that you're at home? Mavis: You're so confusing, Sam. Look at the door. It says "D". Clear as day. As I mentioned last update, Mavis seems to have lived in room D on the third floor. It's easy enough to miss this detail, and we will need to know it. To ensure you can't miss out, Mavis can be asked this question as often as necessary to get the room letter, and if you revisit Harriet a repeatable question has her mention she lived on the third floor and was Mavis' neighbour. So it's always possible to get the room details if you miss them the first time around, which is a nice touch. Next up, Joey wants to know what Mitchell has to do with this. Joey: Have you been talking to a reporter from the New Yorker? Mavis: Yes! Such a nice man. He came over and talked to me for a bit. I liked him. He listened to me. Joey: What did you talk about? Mavis: Oh, this and that. Don't know why he was so interested. And also that crazy old woman that Harriet mentioned was lurking around the building. Joey: Have you sen any strange old women lurking around here? Mavis: An old woman...? Joey: Yeah. Mavis: I... No. No I haven't. Joey: You sure? Mavis: Yes I'm sure. I don't like the sound of that. If there's one thing we've learned, it's when ghosts start avoiding topics, it means the topic is important.  Joey figures he may as well get as much info out of Mavis as possible while he's here. Mavis: Sam, since when did you become so interested? Joey: Just trying to get to know you better. Mavis: Well, isn't that sweet! But I honestly don't know what to tell you. In fact, perhaps knowing about Sam himself would be useful. Joey: So what can you tell me about... me? Mavis: You're so confusing, Sam. Joey: Never mind. Actually, yeah. That probably wasn't ever going to work.  Haha, Joey's really pushing the limit here. Mavis: Is that a joke, Sam? You know he's been dead for ten years. Joey: Ah. Sorry. Mavis: How can you forget? He was your father! Uh oh, Mavis is getting a bit worked up now. Joey: Slipped my mind. Mavis: Slipped your MIND? Joey: Just... look, forget it. I'm going to go now, Mom. I'll come back to visit you soon. Mavis: Sure, Sam. I'll be here. Time to exit before things get too bad. We've got a fair bit of info, anyway.  Lauren: You were gone? Funnily enough, Joey was originally going to voice this line ala Jack Nicholson from The Shining, before Gilbert realised that, much like the Far[r]ah Fawcett calendar, 1973 was too early for Joey to be quoting a movie from 1980. Unfortunately he had already recorded Lauren's response. So he just had Goldfarb voice the line in a standard voice instead. Mitchell's Theme (Alternative) Mitchell: Come in. Have a seat. For the third time this evening, Lauren and Joey knock on Mitchell's door. I like the way his responses to their intrusions keep changing, though this is the one he'll now stick with if we keep coming back. Let's see what this guy knows about Mavis. Lauren: Did you know Mavis Wilcox? Mitchell: Miss Wilcox? Yes, I remember her. Lived uptown aways, before she died. Lauren: How did you know her? Mitchell: I wanted to write a piece about her, so I met her for a spell. Interesting woman. How did you know her? Lauren: I'm looking into her death. Mitchell: I see. Much like he did with Isaac, Mitchell apparently met up with Mavis to write an article about her. Did he learn anything? Lauren: So what can you tell me about Mavis? I get the impression she didn't get out much. Mitchell: That's an understatement. I came in touch with her through a colleague who was covering that demolition. I wondered what made a woman like that tick, so I made an appointment to meet with her. Lauren: What was she like? Mitchell: A very gracious woman. Brought me in. Made me a cup of tea. Showed me pictures of her family. All-in-all, it was a pleasant way to spend an afternoon. The "understatement" line corroborates Harriet's story that Mavis didn't like to ever leave the house. Lauren: What happened to her? Mitchell: Killed, so they say. Was found choked to death in her own apartment. Choked to death again, just like Harriet said. The similarities between the two cases tonight are too strong to be mere coincidence. Lauren: Any thoughts on who did it? Mitchell: Well there were rumours that the Labor Union decided to take matters into their own hands, as it were.  Mitchell: The police ruled that it was some squatter or drifter, or something. And left it at that. Lauren: And what do you think? Mitchell: Me? I have no theory. So, I can see why Mitchell might have wanted to write about Isaac. He was a musician of minor repute who fell on hard times. That's a story worth telling. But Mavis? It seems she was just a shut-in housewife. Lauren asks about Mitchell's motivations. Lauren: Why did you want to write about her? Mitchell: I found her fascinating. She was asked to leave. She was begged to leave. She was even offered lots of money to leave. But she kept refusing. She was too scared. I had to know why. Lauren: And what did you discover? Mitchell: That, Miss Blackwell, is the eternal question. I've spoken to hundreds of people over the years, and most of them were odder than Mavis. It's impossible to decipher the whys and the hows. As time went on, I've contented myself just with the whats. I'm not sure if Mitchell is deliberately being evasive here, or if this is just his way of talking.  Mitchell: I'm afraid not. Mavis discussed her son, and seemed proud of him, but I don't think they see each other. I never met the boy, myself. Lauren: Do you know anything about John Durkin, Mavis' ex-husband? Mitchell: Oh yes, she did talk about him. Broke her heart, she said. I know they divorced very early in the marriage, and he died several years later. But I'm afraid I know nothing else. That confirms that John and Mavis were divorced, explaining the different surname. Lauren: I'd like to read your piece about Mavis. Mitchell: I'm afraid I know longer have it. Lauren: Do you know what issue it was in? I'd like to look it up. Mitchell: I never published it. I was going to, but then Mavis died, and it just seemed wrong somehow. I don't have the rough copies anymore. I'm sorry. That article is lost as well? A pattern is seriously forming here. Lauren: Well, I think that's all for now. Mitchell: Alright. You have a good night, now. Lauren's Theme (Alternative)  John Durkin is dead, and obviously Mavis Wilcox is dead as well. Perhaps Sam is still alive? He might be useful in working our way through this case. Lauren: Mavis Wilcox is Sam's mother. Stands to reason his last name would be Wilcox, too.  Lauren: Hm. There's no listing. But when Lauren looks for Sam Wilcox, she gets nothing.  But what if Sam wasn't given his mother's surname? Lauren: Maybe Sam didn't use his mother's name. He could have used his father's.  This time for sure... Lauren: Hm. There's no listing. I thought for sure that would work. ...oh. Apparently not. Perhaps he's dead as well? Or maybe he's not living in New York anymore? Or perhaps he just has an unlisted number?  The necessary clue is here, on the photograph. Lauren: He's wearing a Columbia University sweatshirt. Perhaps he's a student there?  This time we'll find something... Lauren: Columbia University. Here's the number. Lauren places the call. Operator: Columbia University. Operator speaking. How may I direct your call? Of course, you could find the Columbia University clue without determining that Sam's surname might be Durkin. If you ask for Sam Wilcox... Lauren: Can you connect me to Sam Wilcox? Operator: Sorry. There's no Sam Wilcox listed. Lauren: No? Are you sure? Operator: He's not in the directory. Lauren: Thanks anyway. So let's try Sam Durkin instead. Lauren: How about Sam Durkin. Is there a Sam Durkin listed? Operator: Sam Durkin. Yes. Hold please. Lauren: It's about time. A few rings later, and a voice answers. Sam: Durkin. Lauren: Is this Sam? Sam: Yeah. Who's this? Lauren: My name is Lauren Blackwell. I was hoping to ask you a few questions about your mother. Fingers crossed he'll be amenable to questions. Sam: Oh. Questions, huh? Lauren: Yeah. Sam: Alright. I'll bite. How do you know my ma? Well, that... not too bad. Lauren has a few choices of how to lie. She can claim to be a friend: Lauren: I was a friend. Sam: A friend. Lauren: That's right. Sam: We both know that's a lie. She didn't have any friends. Ouch. She can pretend to be a former neighbour: Lauren: I was her neighbor. Sam: You used to live in that dump? Lauren: Yeah. Sam: And you knew Mavis? Lauren: Very well. Sam: You actually TALKED to her? Lauren: Yeah. All the time. Sam: Where, in the hallway? Lauren: Why all the questions? Sam: Because I don't believe you. That doesn't work either... or she can say she is an investigator: Lauren: I'm investigating her death. Sam: Oh. You're a cop, are you? Because my dad was a cop. I know people. I can check. Lauren: No. I'm not a cop. Sam: Didn't think so. Just a concerned citizen, huh? Lauren: That's right. Sam: Somehow, I don't believe you. Nobody in their right mind would be concerned about my ma. All in all, it's very clear that Sam doesn't hold his mother in high regard. He speaks in a fairly grizzled voice, without any hint of humour.  Finally, we get an opening. Lauren: I would? Sam: Sure you would. She never left the drat place. So what was it? If you give the wrong apartment number, Sam tells you to take a hike and hangs up. Of course, nothing stops you from just continuously ringing up and incrementing the numbers until you hit on the right one. Way to go, Sam! Of course, the correct answer is 3D. Sam: All right. So maybe you DID know her. Lauren: THANK you. Sam: So what do you want to know about her? Alright, we're in. Let's get as much info as we can from this kid. Lauren: What do you know about her death? Sam: It was suicide. Lauren: She killed herself? Sam: Not literally. But it was like she chose to die. She had every opportunity to leave. They were going to pay her and find her a new place and everything. I tried to get her out, but that's my ma. She couldn't be dragged outta that dump by anybody or anything. Again, Sam sounds pretty pissed here. He definitely didn't like his mother, and Lauren picks up on it immediately. Lauren: How close were you with your mother?  Sam: That's how close we were. Woman wasn't a mother. Just crazy on wheels. Yeesh. No wonder Mavis was happy when Joey turned up pretending to be Sam without yelling at her. Sam obviously didn't like her at all. Lauren: Did Mavis EVER leave her apartment? Sam: Never. Not once in the last fifteen years. That's... wow, okay. Not once in fifteen years? She really WAS crazy. I can also see why she would have been so put out by being asked to move. Apparently she was a bit of a nutcase. Lauren: Do you know WHO killed her? Sam: She was killed by some junkie, wasn't she? Lauren: So they say. Sam: You think different? Lauren: That's what I'm trying to find out. Sam: Well good luck to you. If he knows anything about Mavis' killer, he's not talking. In fact, he doesn't seem that interested in it at all.  Sam: Upset? Sure. She was my ma. But am I gonna lose sleep? No. She drove my pop out of the house and into an early grave. I once thought I'd follow in his footsteps, but not anymore. That woman didn't go anywhere. Never DID anything. But she was killing me, just by existing. Now I feel like I can breathe again. That's the truth. I guess I can also see why Sam is pissed. His mum had mental issues, which ruined her relationship with her husband, and ended up leaving Sam without a parental figure. Lauren: What was it like living with her? Sam: You kidding? I lived with my pop. After three years of marriage he had enough. Glad he had the sense to take me with him. Lauren: And after your father died? Sam: I got by. One day we're going to encounter some ghosts with happy backstories, right??  Lauren: You never visited your mother? Sam: Yeah, I visited her on Mother's Day, if that's what you want to know. Even got her a present once. Lauren: Really? Sam: Yeah. For all the good it did. That's an oddly specific thing to mention... Lauren follows it up. Lauren: What did you give your mom for mother's day? Sam: I don't think that's any of your business, lady. It's been years. Just dust in the ground, now. Lauren: Bye, Sam. Thanks for your time. Sam: Yeah.  Lauren: He really seemed to hate her. Joey: Families are strange things, dollface. You know that more than anybody. Lauren: Yeah. Well, we've got a touch more information at least. Tomorrow, we'll see if we can use it to reach Mavis and help her to move on. One more thing before we finish up today - Sam Durkin is not a new character for Gilbert. In his original commercial game, The Shivah, a gritty detective by the name of Sam Durkin plays a fairly major role. Presumably, Gilbert just liked the character (and the voice actor), so he had him reappear him in Unbound. I guess since the game is set in the 1970s, we are hearing a younger Durkin than the one from The Shivah, set in modern times. In fact, the name "Durkin" seems to be a favourite of Gilbert's. You most likely don't recall, but we've seen John Durkin's name before, way back at the start of Legacy. Remember this letter?  Supposedly, Lauren eventually contacts John Durkin when she takes custody of Rosa. Except... John Durkin apparently died in the early 60s, as we just learned from Mavis this update. So that absolutely doesn't work. My theory? Gilbert just liked the name Durkin, but didn't want to use Sam as, technically, John seems to be more of a lawyer in that letter. So he just decided to use the same surname. Then, when Unbound came along, he liked the name but forgot that he'd already used it in Legacy. Certainly it's not a brother of Sam's or anything, since we know he's an only child. Whichever way you look at it, it's a plot hole, albeit a very minor one. cmndstab fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Jun 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2013 15:43
|
|
|
And this is why I didn't get on with Mavis' storyline. I was also doing Isaac's at the same time, and that muddied things up nicely. That, combined with some of the hoops (minor hoops, but still hoops) you have to jump through to get information, and by this point, I was firmly sympathetic to Sam. I also highly suspected The Countess murdered both people. We'll see whether past me was right soon.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2013 16:00
|
|
|
I really love Joey's exchange with Mavis. He's just being so awkward about it, it's kind of precious. Considering how much of an effort he makes to seem all in-control macho the rest of the time, it's just hilarious to see him be completely out of his element.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2013 16:22
|
|
|
I'm getting some very (speculation) -> Sixth Sense -ish vibes about Mr. Mitchell.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2013 17:08
|
|
|
Perhaps John Durkin the lawyer is a cousin?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2013 19:36
|
|
|
JamieTheD posted:And this is why I didn't get on with Mavis' storyline. I was also doing Isaac's at the same time, and that muddied things up nicely. That, combined with some of the hoops (minor hoops, but still hoops) you have to jump through to get information, and by this point, I was firmly sympathetic to Sam. I also highly suspected The Countess murdered both people. We'll see whether past me was right soon. Cardiovorax posted:I really love Joey's exchange with Mavis. He's just being so awkward about it, it's kind of precious. Considering how much of an effort he makes to seem all in-control macho the rest of the time, it's just hilarious to see him be completely out of his element. The whole part with Mavis is actually extremely well-written. In fact, the next two updates contain some of my favourite dialogue of the entire series. And yes, Mavis is an interesting character because she's absolutely a sympathetic case, but at the same time was a terrible mother. The mixture of emotion throughout this case is quite powerful. Valiantman posted:I'm getting some very (speculation) -> Sixth Sense -ish vibes about Mr. Mitchell. It's difficult to really communicate Mitchell's vibe through text, because his writing seems very clinical and dry, but his southern accent is fairly warm and pleasant sounding. I'll talk more about his character in a subsequent update, but he's an interesting character. bunnyofdoom posted:Perhaps John Durkin the lawyer is a cousin? Perhaps, yeah. Or it could even be a completely unrelated John Durkin. Just seems funny that Gilbert used the same name twice in subsequent games for characters that simply couldn't be the same. I think he just likes the name Durkin. Next update coming later today, and we're swiftly heading towards Unbound's climax!
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 04:33
|
|
|
A paranoid shut-in must be the toughest sort of person to convince of anything they don't want to believe.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 05:56
|
|
|
Update 9 Alright, so let's see here. Mavis' son, Sam, gave her a mother's day present once. He apparently hated her, but she seemed pleased to see him (or, at least, Joey pretending to be him). It's quite likely that the present has some emotional significance to her. That might be our in for saving her. Inside The Gate  Joey: Hi. Mom. Do you have that present I gave you? Mavis: Which present was that? The only problem is, we have absolutely no idea what the present was, and Sam refused to tell us. So Joey has to guess. Joey: Um, the scarf? Mavis: Don't be silly, Sam. You never gave me a scarf. Joey: Um, the perfume? Mavis: You never gave me perfume, Sam. Joey keeps on guessing... Joey: Um, the flowers? Mavis: You never gave me flowers, Sam. Nobody has given me flowers in twenty years. Joey: Ah. Sorry. Um, the hat? Mavis: A hat. Sam, have you EVER known me to wear a hat? Joey: No. No. Sorry. Sorry. Nevermind. Hahaha, the hat  This isn't working. Perhaps somebody else might know? Mitchell: Come in. Have a seat. Mitchell said that Mavis spoke to him about her family. If the gift was of emotional significance to her, perhaps she mentioned it to him? Lauren: Did Mavis ever mention a gift or a present from her son? Mitchell: Now that you mention it, yes. She showed me a leather bound edition of "Alice in Wonderland," and said it was from her son. Lauren: "Alice in Wonderland?" Mitchell: Yes. It's by Lewis Carroll. Lauren: Yeah, I've heard of it. Well, I think that's all for now. Mitchell: All right. You have a good night now. Excellent. Let's see what we can do with that piece of information.  Mavis: Of course I still have it! It was the only Mother's Day gift you ever bought me, Sam. This is pretty bittersweet. She obviously loves her son, but he never wanted to see her, so she cherishes the one gift she has from him, even though it's just a book As awkward as it is, this is our opening. Joey will need to use the book against Mavis to snap her back to her senses. Joey: Can I see it? Mavis: Whatever for? Joey: C'mon, ma. I just want to see it. Mavis: Sure, Sam. It's right on the table. Of course, there is no table, and no book. Joey tries to bring Mavis to this conclusion. Joey: Great. Why don't you bring it out here? Mavis: You mean... pick it up? Mavis talks as though picking it up is an undesirable thing. It's clear that, on a subconscious level, ghosts know that they are dead, and actively take steps to prevent themselves from being confronted with this fact. However, Joey is insistent. Joey: Yeah. Pick it up. And bring it over. Mavis: Pick it up. Sure. I can pick it up. Mavis floats over to the "table", but of course, can't pick the book up as it's not there. Nothing is there. Mavis: Oh!  Joey: What? Mavis: The book. It's GONE. Joey: Gone, huh? Imagine that. Mavis: Somebody stole it! So close to figuring out the truth, at the last minute Mavis comes up with an alternative possibility. Mavis: Sam, I'm sorry. I'm so so sorry! Joey: It's okay, mom. Mavis: Okay? OKAY? I lost your gift! This is a pretty tragic scene. Mavis has treasured that book because Sam never visits, and now that he has, she can't find it anymore and is panicked that he'll think she didn't care about it It's pretty heartbreaking, but we'll need to keep pushing the issue here. Mavis: Sam? Joey: The book's not there... and neither is the table. Right? Mavis: What...? Joey: THINK! The book's gone! The table's gone! The whole room is gone! Unfortunately, in Mavis' state, she just thinks "Sam" is angry at her for losing the book. Mavis: Sam! You're awful. I'm upset and I'm sorry. Don't make it worse, please! She's going to need a pretty big jolt here. Joey goes in for the kill. Joey: You NEED to find that book, Mom.  Ouch. Mavis: You don't mean that! Joey: I mean it, mom. You need to tell me where the book is. Mavis: But... I don't know where to look! Mavis is starting to get hysterical by this point. Joey: Maybe it's under the sofa? Mavis: No. It's not there. Joey: In the bathroom? Mavis: No. I never saw it in there.  Perhaps now, with Mavis so panicked, Joey can entice her outside of her apartment? Mavis: In the hallway? Joey: Sure. In the hallway. Yeah. I'm SURE it's out here. Come on out and help me look. Mavis: Oh, okay Sam. But only for you.  Almost there... Mavis: I still... don't see it anywhere. Joey: Let's try further down, Mom. 53rd and Lex  And for the first time in nearly two decades, Mavis braves the outside world. Mavis: I'm... I'm outside. Joey: Yeah. I knew you could do it, Mom. Lauren: ...Mom? Mavis: Sam? Sam! Where are we? I'm scared! Joey: I'm right here. Mom. Now for the last little push. Joey: I need you to do something. Mavis: What? Joey: Turn around. Mavis: I can't. Joey: Sure you can. Just turn around... and look behind you. After a few tense moments, Mavis turns around.... and beholds the construction site where her apartment used to stand. Mavis: Oh... Mavis pauses for a second, before having a full-blown panic attack. Mavis: Where's my apartment? Where's my HOME?! It's GONE! Those bastards! They tore it down!  She then turns her fury onto Joey. Mavis: You made me leave, and they TORE IT DOWN! Joey: Hey, calm down! Mavis: I've got NOTHING now! Joey: Mom...  Looks like the gig is up. Mavis: You are NOT my son! Her anger quickly gives way to sorrow. Mavis: My son hates me! All I had left was my home, and then... Then I... Oh... GOD!  Unlike Alli and Isaac, who seemed to going through the process of recognising their own death rather calmly, Mavis' passage to this stage is filled with tormented panic and misery. Lauren and Joey can only watch in silence. Finally, Mavis speaks again in a bitter, depressed voice. Mavis: ... Are you happy now? You couldn't just leave me there. You had to bring me out. You had to make me... remember. Joey: I'm sorry. Mavis is seriously miserable here. Mavis: It's horrible. Being dead. It's horrible. Joey: You get used to it. You can hear Joey trying to bite his tongue here. It's hard not to feel sorry for Mavis, but she also comes across as extremely selfish throughout this entire case. Mavis: I... I don't want to feel like this anymore. Everything is so... dark. And cold. Can I go home now? Joey: Sure. Sure I can take you home. Just hold onto this.  Let's get this sorry case finished. Joey: Over to you, kid. Lauren: Right. Mavis Faces Eternity  It's a nice touch that Mavis and Isaac both have personalised themes for their transit through Nodespace. Mavis: Oh... my... God. Lauren: Mavis? Mavis: It's so... bright. And big. It just goes on forever... I just want go home. Please can I go home? Lauren: I think that's the only home you've got, now. I'm sorry. Even here, in Nodespace, where ghosts normally begin to calm down and get reflective, Mavis just wants to return home. On the plus side, she's a lot less panicky in here.  Mavis: Husband gone and dead. My son hates my guts. My home is gone. My life... over. I need a bigger to encompass this scene.Mavis: I remember that, too. Dying, I mean. That old woman... choking me. Lauren: Old woman? Mavis: She just... came in and killed me. Said she was going to help me. Ah. Well. What now? This definitely isn't a coincidence. By this stage it's 100% obvious that it was the Countess who killed both Mavis and Isaac. But why? Lauren: The light, Mavis. Just head towards it. Mavis: And then? Lauren: I don't know. Mavis: I'm scared, but it feels right somehow. After twenty years of shutting herself away at the expense of everything else in her life, finally at the end of it all, Mavis seems to accept her lot. She's really run the full gamut of emotions during this scene.  With a final apology to her husband and son, Mavis' anguished existence comes to an end. Lauren has one final reflection... Lauren: I wish I could feel sorry for you. But I don't feel much of anything anymore. Best of luck. Wherever you are. ...though it's more of a reflection on herself than anything else. If she's not driven to some sort of emotion after witnessing Mavis' outburst, then Lauren really does have emotional issues. The Countess Approaches  Joey: You all right? Lauren: Yeah. Fine. I'm exhausted. Call it a night? Joey: Sounds good to me.  Before they can leave, however, a familiar figure approache. Joey: Like clockwork. Countess: You... saved her? Lauren: Yeah. Sure we did. No thanks to you. Joey: We've got some questions for you, lady.  Lauren has already made the connection here. Countess: I didn't kill them! I'm like you! Lauren: You're nothing like us. We don't kill. "Like you"? What does she mean? Countess: I help spirits enter the next world. Like you. Lauren: You mean... You're a medium? Countess: Yes. Wait, what? Lauren: But... you can't be! Countess: I am like you. Lauren: Wait. No. This doesn't make any sense. Why are you killing people? Countess: I SAVE people! I don't hurt them!  Just like last time, the Countess suddenly darts away without warning. Joey and Lauren take up chase... Lauren's Theme (Alternative)  ...but that ends up pretty much the same as last time. Joey: Your nose okay? Lauren: That lamp post should NOT have been there.  And, as usual, Lauren ends up on the balcony with a cigarette. Joey tries to help her make sense of what is happening. Lauren: I'm so confused, Joey. I feel like the answer is on the tip of my tongue. I just... can't figure it out. Joey: Well, let's chat for a while. Maybe we'll come up with something. Let's try to work through this. Lauren: She's a medium. Like me. It makes no sense. Joey: It does make sense, actually. She's not an animal, or another ghost. The only way she could see me, is if she was a medium like you. I wonder how many other mediums are out there? Lauren: Why would a medium kill? Joey: Maybe she doesn't think of it as killing. She did say she helped people. Saved them. Lauren: By killing them? Joey: Maybe she felt they were better off dead? Lauren: I don't think so. Mavis and Isaac were sad, mixed up people. But they didn't deserve to DIE. Joey: Maybe she thinks otherwise. Lauren then voices her primary concern.  Joey: What do you mean? Lauren: That woman. The Countess. Or whatever she's called. Is that what happens to mediums when they get old? That's a... pretty awful thought. Joey: I don't know darling. I really don't. But I won't let that happen to you. You have my word, on that. This scene takes on extra poignancy since we know how Lauren's life ended. Lauren has another pertinent question. Lauren: If she's a medium, where's her spirit guide? Joey: You know, I wondered that myself. I'm your connection to the spirit world. The Countess, or whoever she is, doesn't have that. Or, at least, none that we can see. Lauren: Is it possible to be a medium without a guide? Joey: I don't think so, sweetheart. That's one thing I'm sure of. Medium and guide. That's how it works. Joey has a point - without a spirit guide, the Countess can't travel to Nodespace. I guess that's why she's resorted to throttling people to get them to "move on". Still, presumably, if she's a medium, she had a spirit guide at one point.  Joey: I don't know. Lauren: I thought you couldn't leave my side. Joey: I know. Either her spirit guide managed to escape, or... Lauren: Or what? Joey: Or it was killed. Lauren: Is that possible? Joey: I don't know. I don't think I want to know. I'm not sure which of those two possibilities would be the worse one... Lauren: So what could her connection be? Joey: Dunno. SOMETHING has to connect her to the spirit world. It's not another ghost, or we would see it. So it must be something else. Something that has a connection to everything we've seen. Lauren: Or someone. Joey: Yeah, that's it. The Countess connects these two cases. There has to be something or someone else that has the same connection.  Lauren tries to think back over the various names involved in the two cases today. Lauren: Cecil Sharpe? Joey: Nah. He knew Isaac, but he didn't know Mavis. Lauren: Dwayne? Joey: That music guy? No. Couldn't be him. He didn't know Mavis, and barely knew Isaac at all. Lauren: Harriet Sherman? Joey: Well she's certainly old enough to know the Countess. But I don't think so. She knew Mavis, but not Isaac. Lauren: Sam Durkin? Joey: I don't think that kid has anything to do with this. He knew Mavis, obviously, but he has no connection to Isaac that I can see. There's only one person other than the Countess that has a connection to both cases...  Joey: Bingo. Lauren: The reporter? How could HE have this kind of power? Joey: I don't know how he GOT the power, but it all fits. He wrote about both Mavis and Isaac, and the Countess killed both of em. He seems like the best candidate. Lauren: But it doesn't make any sense. Joey: Think about it. You're a medium. What is it that mediums do?  Hahahahaha, I love how Lauren still manages to barb with Joey at a time like this  Joey: Ha ha. Look, I'm trying to be serious for once. Lauren: We get a lead, investigate, and ask lots of questions. Joey: Yeah, that's part of it. But WHY? To save ghosts? Lauren: We help spirits into the next world. Joey: Exactly. A medium needs a guide. Hers is gone. Somehow, Mitchell fills in the gap. Our Countess is being told, through Mitchell's writing, to help certain spirits into the next world. It's not her fault that they are still alive. Lauren: You mean... Joey: I think you get the picture. Lauren: Oh God. That's sick. Joey: It makes sense, though. That's... pretty drat horrifying. So the Countess kills whoever Mitchell writes about? And in her mind she's saving them. Unfortunately, she completely fails at sending the spirits to the next world, as her victims seem to have stuck around anyway. We'll need to go to the source to handle this. Lauren: How is this possible? Joey: There's only one way to find out. It's time we paid our friend Mitchell one more visit. Well, that was an emotional rollercoaster. Join me again tomorrow as Lauren and Joey confront Mitchell and try to put a stop to what's been going on here. Blackwell Unbound is almost at a close! cmndstab fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Jun 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 13:45
|
|
|
Well that covers my question of 'how can one person and ghost cover a city the size of New York?'. There are more of them, only in this case it's a mad old woman who can't do her job. Kills people to 'save them', then can't do anything to help the ghosts she helped create.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 14:14
|
|
|
Joey, how do you know so much how mediums work? Are mediums and/or knowledge about them common knowledge in New York, or what? This is the first time I heard about mediums needing a spirit guide.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 15:37
|
|
|
It's probably an innate sense that he has. Joey is a ghost, and is keenly aware of his ghostliness and even just knows how to use the tie. It stands to reason that he just supernaturally gained a bunch of knowledge upon being ghostified. As much as anything stands to reason in these games.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 15:42
|
|
|
My theory is that Joey has been doing this for a few years and just kind of noticed some things over time and pieced it together. Nobody has ever been able to see ghosts besides Lauren/Patricia, animals and children, so he just assumes that's the way things are. Lauren is unable to enter Nodespace without his tie, so he just assumes it's a requirement. To be fair, nothing we've seen here contradicts that if we accept the Countess as being a medium, so perhaps he's right!
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 15:45
|
|
|
cmndstab posted:My theory is that Joey has been doing this for a few years and just kind of noticed some things over time and pieced it together. Nobody has ever been able to see ghosts besides Lauren/Patricia, animals and children, so he just assumes that's the way things are. Lauren is unable to enter Nodespace without his tie, so he just assumes it's a requirement. But how did he first discover that the tie leads to Nodespace? I argue that as a ghost he possesses a unique understanding of some of the inner-workings of these things.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 15:57
|
|
|
Assoonasitits posted:But how did he first discover that the tie leads to Nodespace? I argue that as a ghost he possesses a unique understanding of some of the inner-workings of these things. This is a very good point. It's certainly not an obvious thing to try. There must be some kind of instinct at play here. I'd assume that it was explained to him, but he makes a big song and dance of telling off Rosa when she whines about her predicament, saying that "you'd think Somebody Up There would have told me what was going on, but no." So I guess he just figured it all out on his own, along with whatever natural instinct he had.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 16:02
|
|
|
Poor Mavis. For a second I thought the game would end and we'd find out the Countesses deal in the next game, since this was supposed to be a flashback in a larger story. That would have been disappointing, so I'm happy there is still game time left. And I'm a little late on this, but my idea is that the dead John was John Junior, and the lawyer was his dad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 17:11
|
|
|
Just wanted to chime in to say that this is really excellent LP - I'd not heard of the games before, but now I'm hooked. Looking forward to the next two episodes in the series (along with the conclusion of this one)!
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 19:42
|
|
|
cmndstab posted:This is a very good point. It's certainly not an obvious thing to try. There must be some kind of instinct at play here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 20:04
|
|
|
EagerSleeper posted:Joey, how do you know so much how mediums work? Are mediums and/or knowledge about them common knowledge in New York, or what? This is the first time I heard about mediums needing a spirit guide. This is actually quite a point of contention in paranormal research circles. Y'see, there are people who claim to see and interact with spirits and ghosts directly, and those who claim they can only do so through the intervention of a third party, a spirit guide. The latter should be the only ones called Mediums (from when they were first popularly noted, back in the Victorian days), but both groups often call themselves mediums, even though, from what the researchers who bother with this field can tell, the two groups work in an entirely different manner. See, a medium's spirit guide is there as a sort of pressure valve, ensuring that the medium doesn't get overwhelmed/possessed unwillingly, whereas a spirit-seer's only safety feature is an unwillingness to interact much. But the only spirit that a Medium can directly sense is their spirit guide, while a spirit-seer can apparently directly sense pretty much any spirit (although only rarely in the visual sense). Why is this a point of contention? Because the only knowledge base these supposed psychics have to work from is each other, and Mediums have this tendency not to believe that anyone who sees spirits doesn't have a spirit guide. Which often leads to bad/dangerous advice along the lines of "Oh hey, this random thing that showed up is your spirit guide! Never mind that you claim it's got more teeth than five great whites and looks like something Bosch would paint on Special K, it's your spirit guide!" Those who've done their modicum of research about such things object, and then things get ugly. And yeah, Joseph Mitchell... Unaware dupe, or perfectly drat aware of The Countess?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 20:11
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:Poor Mavis. Yeah, Mavis really goes through the full Kubler-Ross model, with denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance flowing almost in order over several minutes of dialogue. It's powerfully done. It could be that lawyer John is Sam's grandfather, yes. That would presumably make him well into his 60s or even early 70s at the time he contacts Lauren in 1981, but that's a possibility. Rid posted:Just wanted to chime in to say that this is really excellent LP - I'd not heard of the games before, but now I'm hooked. Looking forward to the next two episodes in the series (along with the conclusion of this one)! Glad to have you on board I'm glad to see several people who hadn't played these games before following along closely, it's what I was hoping would happen with this LP!Cardiovorax posted:Dunno, it might have been chance. Joey annoys Lauren one time too often, she throws a wobbly with lots of flailing arms and notices that when she grabs for his tie, she can actually touch it. I love the image of Lauren furiously attempting to grab Joey by the neck only to find a corporeal tie in her hands Mind you, perhaps "old Pattycakes" was the one who attempted that? JamieTheD posted:...Mediums and spirit guides... Thanks for this - it's interesting to see how this game compares to established concepts about mediums. It looks like the Blackwell games fall in between the two camps. Lauren/Rosa can sense other ghosts perfectly fine, and apparently the Countess can to, even without her spirit guide. But they are completely unable to physically interact with them without Joey acting as a conduit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 22:55
|
|
|
cmndstab posted:I love the image of Lauren furiously attempting to grab Joey by the neck only to find a corporeal tie in her hands Can't imagine Patricia ever acknowledging his presence enough to actually assault him, though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 23:06
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:That's pretty much the image I was having. Lauren strikes me just as the kind of woman to try and choke a dude with his own collar when she's in a rage. The fact that she would try it despite full knowledge that Joey is completely ethereal and that she can't actually touch him just fits her character perfectly
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 23:15
|
|
|
Just made a mental connection: Joey is Lauren/ Rosa's spirit guide and Joseph Mitchell seems to be the Countess's. Are all spirit guides named Joseph?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 23:24
|
|
|
Joseph Mitchell is pretty clearly not a spirit, so something about the whole thing is kinda off. Honestly, it doesn't really make any sense. How does a crazy old woman become psychically attached to a washed-out, but definitely living, writer in the first place, to the point where she systematically kills people from articles that he never even published? We're clearly still missing a lot here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 23:34
|
|
|
cmndstab posted:I'm glad to see several people who hadn't played these games before following along closely, it's what I was hoping would happen with this LP! I love LPs of these kinds of adventure games. I think I'm a little too stupid to properly play one, but reading one with commentary and everything is wonderful, and you do a great job presenting it and everything. cmndstab posted:Mind you, perhaps "old Pattycakes" was the one who attempted that? Cardiovorax posted:How does a crazy old woman become psychically attached to a washed-out, but definitely living, writer in the first place, to the point where she systematically kills people from articles that he never even published? Maybe we'll find out. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 23:44
|
|
|
JamieTheD posted:This is actually quite a point of contention in paranormal research circles. Y'see, there are people who claim to see and interact with spirits and ghosts directly, and those who claim they can only do so through the intervention of a third party, a spirit guide. The latter should be the only ones called Mediums (from when they were first popularly noted, back in the Victorian days), but both groups often call themselves mediums, even though, from what the researchers who bother with this field can tell, the two groups work in an entirely different manner. This is all very fascinating to me, especially since not only am I interested in the paranormal, but also because decent information about it is hard to find. I never even knew about the difference between psychics and mediums. I always assumed a medium was a person who communicated with spirits and/or preformed channeling, since I guess the person really would be a 'medium.' I'm going to have to disagree with the mediums' theory that the only ghost that a person is able to see is their spirit guide. If only the Paranormal/Conspiracy subforum was still around because I could write a thread about the time my hair got pulled by a ghost for two days until I got rid of a statue. Unless it still counts because technically, I didn't see it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 23:48
|
|
|
It's been so long since I played these that I'd forgotten the entire plot of the 2nd game except that you played as Lauren. One thing I love about the series is that you can tell the voice actors start really getting into their roles as the games go on. The voice acting in the fourth is particularly good even though it's the same folks from the first.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2013 23:53
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:Joseph Mitchell is pretty clearly not a spirit, so something about the whole thing is kinda off. Honestly, it doesn't really make any sense. How does a crazy old woman become psychically attached to a washed-out, but definitely living, writer in the first place, to the point where she systematically kills people from articles that he never even published? We're clearly still missing a lot here. It's worth noting that something is definitely off about Mitchell; he doesn't own a phone, his typewriter isn't used, and he doesn't publish any of his writing, nor can he produce it. Excepting that other characters remember him, that he has an office at the New Yorker, and that we can see his feet, I would've guessed that Mitchell was a spirit and Lauren and Joey hadn't even noticed. So I do think he might be something of a supernatural being, though hopefully not so outrageous as the literal devil.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 00:30
|
|
|
EagerSleeper posted:This is all very fascinating to me, especially since not only am I interested in the paranormal, but also because decent information about it is hard to find. I never even knew about the difference between psychics and mediums. I always assumed a medium was a person who communicated with spirits and/or preformed channeling, since I guess the person really would be a 'medium.' Yeah, decent information is hard to find for several reasons, not least of which is the fact that even the most respected researchers can be wrong or full of poo poo at times (And forums on these subjects are, in general, hugboxes where one "side" or the other on the various subjects generally have the last word). My personal favourite there is Jenny Randles and "Timestorms." Essentially, there were reports of people who'd encountered fog banks with glowing balls/ovoids of light inside, which did things like move cars up and down, stop electronics, and the sensation of lost time was also experienced. Now Jenny's first thought was that these were "Time storms", which is as outlandish and attention getting as you can get. But there were certain features which clued me into a better hypothesis. See, three things were in common with all these reports: Firstly, the people involved lost consciousness. Secondly, that electronic items were the first to lose it, and thirdly, that when the witnesses woke up, they all reported exhaustion and muscle strain, and many reported bad tastes in their mouths. As an epileptic, it was the third item that instantly clued me that something was up, because these, combined with the unconsciousness, are symptoms of an epileptic seizure (the muscle strain from muscles randomly stretching and tensing, the bad taste usually from either biting the tongue or lingering synaesthesia). The movement of large metal objects (in at least two reports, the vehicle they were travelling in oscillated up and down) and the electronics stoppage pointed to some electromagnetic phenomenon, and so, a simpler, yet no less strange hypothesis was formed: Ground travelling electromagnetic phenomena. There's other stuff involved too, and the possibility they're all lying or hallucinated isn't outside the realms of possibility (although they had other physical symptoms, including a rash only on exposed skin), but it sums up my point. Anyways, channelling and communicating with spirits has been documented in many kinds of situations, not just mediumistic communication. A good example of this would be the Voudoun practice of allowing a Loa to "ride" the individual (in occult terms, a form of invocation). Hence why the term "Medium" has the strict definition it does, a fact that is lost on the vast majority. As to your own story, this illustrates the second biggest problem with paranormal research after the lack of organisation, oversight, and common terminology: Because some of this stuff is "out there", we have very little, if any idea of who's taking the piss without investigating as it happens (something that happens a lot more rarely than you'd expect). Even having had an experience of my own with, of all things, a bloodstone bought from a New Age shop (don't ask), I'd still eyeball the probability that you are indeed loving with me at around 70%. Which leads to the third problem, directly moving on from the last: When everybody, including the researchers are skeptical (And, let's face it, they're not good researchers if they aren't skeptical enough to look for alternate explanations!), nobody really wants to talk about their experiences outside of the internet, where verification is nigh impossible for most cases. A good book on one of the more interesting UK cases would be This House Is Haunted, by Guy Lyon Playfair of the SPR. Admittedly, it's dry as all get out, but it is what I would class as interesting and useful material. Anyways, apologies for the derail! JamieTheD fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Oct 22, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 00:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 17:42 |
|
|
For God's sake please drop this before you turn this thread into a religion slapfest.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2013 00:57
|
|