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DNova posted:No, Brock is just picking up on the vibe I think. Brock had previously seen Jesse tell Walter to gently caress off as well, so he's probably thinking about that.
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Dec 18, 2014 15:46
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This is really, really good if anyone missed it. This whole song pretty much summarized the series.
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Dec 22, 2014 11:12
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Avocados posted:This is really, really good if anyone missed it. This whole song pretty much summarized the series. What song is this, not available in my country? (Hola doesn't work well with me)
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Dec 22, 2014 11:21
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Kurtofan posted:What song is this, not available in my country? (Hola doesn't work well with me) El Paso, by Marty Robbins. Heres some alternate links to the vid that should work hopefully! http://vimeo.com/76287333 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V106RGMPcHQ
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Dec 22, 2014 11:30
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Avocados posted:El Paso, by Marty Robbins. That's neat, thanks.
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Dec 22, 2014 12:29
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I'm excited for all the lazer tag scenes in Better Call Saul. Dude loves his lazer tag.
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Jan 6, 2015 08:49
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Woo Hoo finally caught up to the end of the thread. Here have some BCS youtubs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcXNML_KSE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds4FZmVG908 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81jzk4_BG44 I like the show but it just didn't hook me the way that The Shield did. When I finished watching the Shield I binge rewatched it five or six times again. I'm part way through rewatching Breaking Bad(for the first time) and have started seeing plot holes that I missed on the first watch rather than seeing a bunch of things I missed that are awesome. The one thing that BB has over the Shield is the cinematography. That is 100% a stand out. I've also started watching the Wire and now I'm into season two I have expectations that it may eclipse The Shield but it hasn't yet. I've heard Vince Gilligan say that they deliberately didn't want BB to be a commentary on American politics. Of all the disingenuous things I've heard Vince say this has to be the stand out. I get why he said it but it's impossible to make a drama in a setting without the setting being contextualised. The issue with Walt and the cost of his treatment isn't as straight forward as people make out (pride preventing him from accepting charity). Even as a High School Teacher Walt had insurance that should have covered him adequately. It was his family insisting on him having the best treatment that negated that option. Now at this point it is an implicit criticism of the US health system that a person who is properly insured doesn't receive the best treatment as a matter of course. This insistence on the best treatment is what throws them onto the mercy of Grey Matter. I don't see how the American health system isn't the forcing factor in the breaking of the bad (unless you go entirely with Walt did it for the adrenalin high). The exact same issue plays out after Hank is shot and illegal meth money once again makes up the enormous gulf between proper care and insurer provided care. At this point it is pretty difficult not be parsing a message that the difference between proper health care and even proper insuranced health care is of such enormous dimensions that criminality is the only practical way to bridge it (Unless you have billionaire friends). That's even before considering any message it might be making about US border policies and the war on drugs. Oh and a point nobody has yet made about Skyler is that she is pointed out in an early episode to be smarter than Walt. She was a crossword master and could do them faster than him. I really don't get the vehement dislike for her. She was his first and most frequent victim, and she knows it.
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Jan 9, 2015 03:11
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Cartoon posted:This insistence on the best treatment is what throws them onto the mercy of Grey Matter. This part might be true, but why didn't he just take Gray Matter's handout? Pride. I don't think you can rest Walt's actions so heavily on the shoulders of the U.S. Healthcare system, while it did have a tiny bit role in the show.
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Jan 9, 2015 03:20
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Someone tell me this: Did we ever get an explanation for why Walter left Gray Matter? What I gathered was that he was doing well, designing poo poo, the company was about to get off the ground, and he was engaged to that woman.... and one day at a family function she found him packing his poo poo and he left her and the company, without any explanation. Did I miss something, or was he always just self destructive and that was the first time that tendency manifested itself?
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Jan 9, 2015 04:20
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Walt didn't want the best cancer treatment, he wanted to provide for his family. Grey Matter's offer didn't provide for that. Also, why are you giving a poo poo what Vince Gilligan says? Just watch the show and enjoy it.
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Jan 9, 2015 04:21
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GORDON posted:Did we ever get an explanation for why Walter left Gray Matter? What I gathered was that he was doing well, designing poo poo, the company was about to get off the ground, and he was engaged to that woman.... and one day at a family function she found him packing his poo poo and he left her and the company, without any explanation. Did I miss something, or was he always just self destructive and that was the first time that tendency manifested itself? It is never explained but it is strong implied it had something to do with his pride being insulted by Gretchen's family. It could have been something legitimate or it could have been something that he took as being an insult to his pride but wasn't intended as such. With Walter both are possible. It's basically there to establish that Walter's self-destructive and pride issues were always there, as was his habit of blaming others for his own mistakes.
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Jan 9, 2015 04:24
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ImpAtom posted:It is never explained but it is strong implied it had something to do with his pride being insulted by Gretchen's family. It could have been something legitimate or it could have been something that he took as being an insult to his pride but wasn't intended as such. With Walter both are possible. This is definitely what happened and I'm glad they didn't show it in a flashback because they didn't need to.
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Jan 9, 2015 04:54
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:This is definitely what happened and I'm glad they didn't show it in a flashback because they didn't need to. My own personal theory was honestly that Walter had a freakout when he realized that he'd be marrying into money and that no matter what he did he wouldn't be the provider/he'd be 'inferior.'. It would fit him basically seemingly leaving for no reason after spending time with her family at a lake house. Edit: Actually, I went googling and it looks like there is an answer if you really want one. Grechen's actress provided it: Jessica Hecht posted:But it was easy because Vince Gilligan told us exactly what went down between the characters off screen: We were very much in love and we were to get married. And he came home and met my family, and I come from this really successful, wealthy family, and that knocks him on his side. He couldn’t deal with this inferiority he felt — this lack of connection to privilege. It made him terrified, and he literally just left me, and I was devastated. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 05:18
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I gotta say, I've always found it strange how much discussion there is about Walt's morality and the audience's perception of him when really Jesse is so much more interesting in that respect. He's a straight white male from a middle-upperclass family with parents who clearly loved him, but despite all his advantages he ended up a total loser. He was an obstinate brat and a wannabe gangster punk. And yet he turns out to be probably the most sympathetic character in the show. That's way more interesting than a prideful rear end in a top hat who coasts for [insert episode number you turned on Walt here] episodes on sympathy earned from a masterfully crafted first episode.
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Jan 9, 2015 05:28
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Shbobdb posted:Walt didn't want the best cancer treatment, he wanted to provide for his family. Grey Matter's offer didn't provide for that. Also, why are you giving a poo poo what Vince Gilligan says? Just watch the show and enjoy it. I don't give a poo poo what Gilligan says, as such. That was by way of preempting anybody quoting him at me on the subject of breaking bad and politics. Jesse is thoroughly unlikeable until somewhere in season two. I still never really warmed to him. He had a predilection for pissing chances up the wall. Maybe I just didn't like his use of the word 'bitch' 
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Jan 9, 2015 05:40
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I gotta say, I've always found it strange how much discussion there is about Walt's morality and the audience's perception of him when really Jesse is so much more interesting in that respect. He's a straight white male from a middle-upperclass family with parents who clearly loved him, but despite all his advantages he ended up a total loser. He was an obstinate brat and a wannabe gangster punk. And yet he turns out to be probably the most sympathetic character in the show. That's way more interesting than a prideful rear end in a top hat who coasts for [insert episode number you turned on Walt here] episodes on sympathy earned from a masterfully crafted first episode. Jesse is far from perfect but his parents are abusive assholes. He took the fall for his little brother on a baggie of weed because while Jesse got kicked out, the consequences for the brother would be much worse.
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Jan 9, 2015 07:22
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NatashaQuick posted:Jesse is far from perfect but his parents are abusive assholes. He took the fall for his little brother on a baggie of weed because while Jesse got kicked out, the consequences for the brother would be much worse.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:25
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NatashaQuick posted:Jesse is far from perfect but his parents are abusive assholes. He took the fall for his little brother on a baggie of weed because while Jesse got kicked out, the consequences for the brother would be much worse. He took the fall for his brother because he realized "poo poo, I'm a burnout," and in a moment of lucidity decided he didn't want the same for his brother. Jesse probably started with weed, too.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:33
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Jesse's parents were obviously overbearing as poo poo but I don't think they were physically abusive. They just were kind of dicks.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:45
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Jesse's parents employed the classic brand of wishy-washy parenting where they'd be loud and emotionally overbearing but unable to see the discipline through to the end, ultimately turning all of their huff and puff into static noise that only makes the problem they're trying to solve worse. There's also a specific line from the dad in the realm of "we have to lay down the law and be consistent about it this time" in regards to Jesse. Jesse's weed experience with his brother affords him the opportunity to be a better parent to his brother than his parents are, to see the other side of the coin, and gain some powerful insight about who he is, why he's that way, what his potential is, etc. The themes of seeing it through, strong punishment, and ineffectual lecturing are juxtaposed in that episode against Walt, who zones out when his doctor is explaining treatment options and side effects, gets bitched at in a role-reversal by his son for not acting differently due to the cancer diagnosis, and punishes a douchebag for a minor transgression by blowing up the guy's car. Figuring out your job/role/talents and doing it effectively is a big theme for the whole show and season 1 specifically, the very next episode being the aforementioned Gray Matter where Jesse's recent experience with his brother/parents drive him to accept what he thinks his place in life is and try and cook meth The Right Way with Badger.
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Jan 9, 2015 18:03
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Although it was never explicitly stated in the show (unless I'm forgetting it being said) I always felt Jesse's major issue was never getting outside encouragement to drive him to do better (most likely specifically from his parents). We can see he is passionate about art and has talent, but as anyone who creates any kind of art can tell you there are plenty of times when you look at what you're doing and all you see are flaws and it's easy to slip into a defeatist attitude. Maybe at some point his parents straight up told him his art wasn't going to get him anywhere (possibly as a way to get him to focus more on school). Without enough drive to improve himself, he resigns to a life of being "the bad guy". We can even see him become the second greatest meth cook because of him "applying himself" (another recurring phrase) to be better. I feel like that's half the reason Jesse takes the fall for his brother. He wants to encourage his brother to be better, but also is at the point where he feels he deserves to just be a burn out. I think his little brother even tells him that their parents favor Jesse, which he doesn't believe. They aren't "bad" parents, but they're misguided and think that they need to employ tough love to get through to him because of the path he is going down. When they kick him out of the house they see it as not giving him any more chances and finally disciplining him, but they don't see that they haven't given him an alternative but to make his life worse. At no point is it shown that they are working to guide him to success. It actually creates an interesting contrast between Jesse and Jane. Jane is quick to jump back into drugs in spite of her dad constantly supporting her to improve herself, while Jesse is just waiting for someone to help him escape but doesn't get the support he needs.
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Jan 9, 2015 18:56
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Jesse is absolutely full of self-loathing which is a big part of his problem. He thinks he is a worse person than he is and in turn tries to live up to being that 'worse person' even though it hurts him. You see it a lot early on where he's convinced that he can murder people easily and he really can't. It gets depressingly worse as he actually does start to become a worse person and desperately doesn't want to be but can't escape since he has no support structure at all. Him 'escaping' from the show is the happiest ending he can get. It's not a happy ending but he's free from that at very least.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:01
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Jesse was probably very encouraged to not do a thing (drugs, gently caress up, be "bad") instead of being encouraged to do what he's good at (drawing, a general natural work ethic, street smarts). I bet his parents had no idea he was even good at drawing, or ignored it because it wasn't academic. That's why his drawings were kept in a box instead of on display. The differences between his and his brother's rooms is very telling. I'm a relatively new parent, and one of the biggest pieces of advice I get from who I consider good people to listen to is "find out what your kid's talent is and that they enjoy doing and fan the flame". Jesse's parents didn't do that. It seems all they did was cycle through getting on his rear end and then relenting.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:27
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:This is definitely what happened and I'm glad they didn't show it in a flashback because they didn't need to. I think Breaking Bad did this better than most shows where it "insinuated" but never explicitly said anything. The same can be said for Gus' lover. Cartoon posted:
Just you wait. Honestly - rewatching the Wire is a completely different experience. I remember when I watched it I felt it was incredibly slow the first time. The second time I realized how many plots/stories/future pay offs are in the first episode. It's so well done.
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Jan 10, 2015 01:10
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Cartoon posted:I don't see how the American health system isn't the forcing factor in the breaking of the bad (unless you go entirely with Walt did it for the adrenalin high). The exact same issue plays out after Hank is shot and illegal meth money once again makes up the enormous gulf between proper care and insurer provided care. At this point it is pretty difficult not be parsing a message that the difference between proper health care and even proper insuranced health care is of such enormous dimensions that criminality is the only practical way to bridge it (Unless you have billionaire friends). Considering the percentage of bankruptcies that involve someone insured with a medical condition, I am having a hard time agreeing with your complaint. cartoon posted:Oh and a point nobody has yet made about Skyler is that she is pointed out in an early episode to be smarter than Walt. She was a crossword master and could do them faster than him. I really don't get the vehement dislike for her. She was his first and most frequent victim, and she knows it. She is smarter than Walt because she does crosswords? Do me a favor and complete this sentence for me "Skyler is a strong confident woman because..." I'm sure it will be a riot.
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Jan 15, 2015 14:14
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Blind Melon posted:Considering the percentage of bankruptcies that involve someone insured with a medical condition, I am having a hard time agreeing with your complaint. Blind Melon posted:She is smarter than Walt because she does crosswords? Do me a favor and complete this sentence for me "Skyler is a strong confident woman because..." Even allowing for your confected leading question that's easy. Skylar is a strong and confident women because: She was able to insist on high level care beyond the strident objections of her partner. She was able to insist on acquiring the Car Wash against the strident, persistent and demeaning insistence of Saul. She went after the person who she suspected of selling drugs to her partner and confronted them about it. I could go on if you like or have you already called out the national guard? But don't just take my word for it: http://uproxx.com/tv/2013/05/vince-gilligan-skyler-white/ Vince Gilligan posted:We’ve been at events and had all our actors up onstage, and people ask Anna Gunn, “Why is your character such a bitch?” And with the risk of painting with too broad a brush, I think the people who have these issues with the wives being too bitchy on Breaking Bad are misogynists, plain and simple. I like Skyler a little less now that she’s succumbed to Walt’s machinations, but in the early days she was the voice of morality on the show. She was the one telling him, “You can’t cook crystal meth.” She’s got a tough job being married to this rear end in a top hat. And this, by the way, is why I should avoid the Internet at all costs. People are griping about Skyler White being too much of a killjoy to her meth-cooking, murdering husband? She’s telling him not to be a murderer and a guy who cooks drugs for kids. How could you have a problem with that?
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Jan 16, 2015 00:26
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Blind Melon posted:She is smarter than Walt because she does crosswords? Do me a favor and complete this sentence for me "Skyler is a strong confident woman because..." Skyler is a strong confident woman because she is able to figure out Walt's machinations and for a good chunk of the series she opposes them, calls him on them and refuses to bend to them. She frequently and regularly calls Walt out on his poo poo and makes hard choices even when it involves making herself look like the villain. Her eventual fall and corruption is one of the tragedies of the show. Skyler is a strong confident woman because she is capable of functioning on a high level. She is, frankly, a better criminal than Walt is because she isn't tied to pride issues and is much more capable of covering her tracks, thinking ahead and planning rather than Walt's 'gonna die, get me some money' mindset. Skyler at the end of the series is someone who was eventually shattered and had her life ruined but that doesn't devalue her strength. The fact that she is shown strong early on just makes it all the more awful when she becomes the person she ends up as, joining the long, long, long list of people whose lives are lost or ruined in the wake of Heisenberg.
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Jan 16, 2015 00:36
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Given that it's just a funny story about how Walt and Skyler met I really don't think the fact that she was able to solve a crossword puzzle that Walt wasn't has any bearing on the story. Lmao.
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Jan 16, 2015 00:42
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Cartoon posted:I'm not a US citizen and haven't lived in the states for over thirty years so can you flesh this out for me?
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Jan 16, 2015 00:46
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Last Chance posted:What the hell is this? Doing a crossword faster than Walt isn't relevant to anything at all. Mostly because it's a just a crossword puzzle. And who said anything so damning of her that you had to drag out the old "Skyler's a Bitch" thing from its peaceful retirement?
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Jan 16, 2015 01:13
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Cartoon posted:I didn't think I had, and if it gets such a strong reaction from you maybe you're the problem. The crossword thing was put in deliberately by the writers. You know, award winning writers. Excuse me for pointing to its possible relevance in the Breaking Bad thread. Holy poo poo you're the worst.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:17
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Skyler White knights.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:21
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Walt was a chemistry genius that other scientists are frequently shown to be completely in awe of. Skylar was certainly very smart and had her areas of expertise (crossword puzzles, accounting, etc.) but that doesn't really compare to Walt.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:25
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Cartoon posted:I didn't think I had, and if it gets such a strong reaction from you maybe you're the problem. The crossword thing was put in deliberately by the writers. You know, award winning writers. Excuse me for pointing to its possible relevance in the Breaking Bad thread. Okay, I'll bite: are you saying that the crossword thing is interesting because it shows that Skyler is clever early in the show? Because hey, that's something. If we're still early in the show's run, then yeah, that's a nice tiny bit of info to have to help us get to know Skyler as a character. However, as the show goes on, it's clear and obvious that Skyler is very smart and thinks about things Walt doesn't (and has expertise in things he doesn't) and as another poster said, she's potentially the better criminal. It's proven over and over throughout the show's run that Skyler is intelligent and sometimes more clever than Walt. The crossword stuff rapidly becomes just another bit of trivia/backstory for the characters. Edit: However, does that make her "smarter" than Walt? Maybe in crosswords, but that doesn't mean much. That's all I'm saying. I'm not going to respond to you referring to me as possibly being "the problem" because I have no idea what you're talking about and I'm not sure you do either. Last Chance fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Jan 16, 2015 |
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Jan 16, 2015 01:28
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The larger point of that scene is to show how unnervingly good Walt is at compartmentalization. Recounting the story of how he and his wife first met shortly after 1. Telling her he has cancer and 2. murdering someone, without it being at all apparent is a great demonstration of the scariest thing about Walt: he is able to live with himself no matter what he does. He can know that the things he's doing are bad and feel bad while doing them, but he just puts that on the backburner when he's living his "normal" life. But yes, the fact that, of all the ways the writers could have had Walt and Skyler meet, that it was something that involved Skyler being better at something then Walt is certainly relevant to her character, and also the dynamics of their relationship.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:50
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Cartoon posted:I didn't think I had, and if it gets such a strong reaction from you maybe you're the problem. The crossword thing was put in deliberately by the writers. You know, award winning writers. Yes, likely to highlight a hobby and flesh out the character, because a facility with crossword tells you virtually nothing about a person's relative cognitive prowess.
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Jan 16, 2015 02:10
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Last Chance posted:Okay, I'll bite: are you saying that the crossword thing is interesting because it shows that Skyler is clever early in the show? Because hey, that's something. If we're still early in the show's run, then yeah, that's a nice tiny bit of info to have to help us get to know Skyler as a character. Sorry if it brought up old baggage for some people. Habibi posted:Yes, likely to highlight a hobby and flesh out the character, because a facility with crossword tells you virtually nothing about a person's relative cognitive prowess. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/acp.3059/abstract quote:Visuospatial and verbal abilities were measured in elite nationally ranked SCRABBLE and crossword experts and compared with college students matched on quantitative and verbal SAT scores, both exceeding 700 on average. SCRABBLE and crossword experts significantly outperformed college students on all cognitive measures. The crossword experts scored significantly higher on a test of analogies than SCRABBLE experts, but performance for cognitive ability tasks did not significantly differ between expert groups.
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Jan 16, 2015 02:29
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The point of the crossword thing is that Walt has been manipulating Skyler, a woman he could recognize immediately as someone of respectable intelligence, since before they even properly met. It's a "cute story" that's indicative of a myriad of problems that will affect their marriage strongly years later. The fact she's a waitress is just as important too given how and why the Gretchen relationship failed. grilldos fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Jan 16, 2015 |
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Jan 16, 2015 02:37
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Yup, really. I'll let you figure out the difference between what you just posted and the scenario presented in the show.
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Jan 16, 2015 02:39
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ImpAtom posted:Skyler is a strong confident woman because she is able to figure out Walt's machinations and for a good chunk of the series she opposes them, calls him on them and refuses to bend to them. She frequently and regularly calls Walt out on his poo poo and makes hard choices even when it involves making herself look like the villain. Her eventual fall and corruption is one of the tragedies of the show. I disagree, but you actually put some thought into this and you make some good points. The counter argument is, of course, that she didn't follow her lawyers advice, which ultimately I believe still stands.
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Jan 16, 2015 03:33
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